IMMA FIRIN' MAH LAZOR! - R.O.B. Social

[bubbaking]

Since there's no ROB social...

Wait a minute, this isn't the social thread!

ROB has a social thread?
ROB mains socialize?

So, a year later.....why don't we have a social thread yet?

In any case, perhaps we can talk (read: whine and moan) about our metallic buddy here?

....Or we could just talk about anything really....

 

[(1UP)]

we could probably use a general discussion one too instead of all the threads that popped up and died within a week. I was going to make one but I kept forgetting

whining and moaning is for babies

 

[FoxBlaze71]

Quit trolling, no one actually plays this character.

Oh well, not like it matters anyway. While you do this, I'll go make a ROB metagame!

 

[Dandizzle]

I went to a tournament yesterday and got 4th. Was pretty cool and was the first time I got FIGHT MONEY. It was close but I think I coulda got 3rd because I won most of the friendlies I played with the guy. I did some cool stuff but it's a pretty ****ty feeling. Anyone wanna talk about your dream changes for 3.5 R.O.B?

 

[DrinkingFood]

I think I found out why Sheik is a bad matchup for ROB. Too hard to hit her when she SHs, all her aerials are really meaty and always beat ROB's, hard to approach if she needles from the air, her hurtboxes change a lot when she jumps and lands so lasering her is easier said than done, basically can't recover from below against needles, dsmash doesn't lead to many good follow-ups since she's not a fast faller, and she combos the **** outta ROB unlike most characters and can even chaingrab him at some points.

 

[(1UP)]

i have basically no experience with that matchup at the moment, but i probably will soon since drephen has been wiping the floor with our locals using sheik

not coincidentally there should also be some footage of me soon, at long last

 

[bubbaking]

Sheik has beaten ROB pretty badly since 2.1. Pretty much her entire kit shuts down ROB. I remember you mentioned something about a 'blind-spot problem' that ROB has, Drinking. Well Sheik gets in that blind-spot reeeaaal easy. Also, Sheik can really nullify pretty much all heavy floaties survivability really early if she catches you with bthrow > tipper usmash. Kills around 100 consistently. What we do have going for us, though, are CGs and the fact that her moves are fairly easy to CC (even though dsmash sucks with good SDI). Also, Sheik is easy to edgeguard.

Anyone wanna talk about your dream changes for 3.5 R.O.B?

Give him more kill power and give him an OoS game that isn't completely dependent on glide-tossing. Give him anything, please, even if it's just a faster roll. Also, I know JC wanted to be fair with how he treated ROB's recovery, but seriously, Zard gets his glide back when he grabs the ledge, Diddy gets his sideB back, all the multi-jumpers get their jumps back, everybody gets all of their recovery tools back when they grab the ledge.....everyone except for ROB.

 

[Player-1]

what I'd like to see changed (not everything needs to be changed, but combination of the following changes I think would be good):
-rob throws gyro lower so we can hit smaller chars with gyro.
-after gyro throw, the gyro goes into the falling down animation that happens when the gyro is just released and not picked up
- Bair has a bigger hitbox in front like it does in brawl, would allow for better combo/punish game. e.g ROB is on the edge and opponent recovers right next to the edge, ROB doesn't have much of a punish, but with bigger bair hitbox in front, you can combo bair into grab, jab, dsmash, etc. This is something that I would like to see most
-Better shield. There has never been a character with a bad shield that has ever been good ever. If there was light shielding in the game then this would be bearable, but ROB seriously needs a better shield.
-Better rolls (doesn't need to happen if we have a better shield)
-Uthrow lands on platforms (Yoshi's Story, FoD, BF, side platforms)
-a way to activate rob's reflector in the air (doesn't need to move, can be similar to brawl's aerial side-b in terms of distance)
-ROB has full laser 1 sec faster
-while spinning on the ground, gyro can hit the same opponent slightly faster than it does

might be forgetting a few ideas I had earlier, but like I said not all of them, but a combination of a few select ones I think would be good

 

[Dandizzle]

I think that R.O.B's close range defense should be bad but not as bad is it is currently. In a lot of situations I say to myself well ****, If he knows how to pressure a shield or realizes I have no decent anti airs I will get hit, better do something risky or get hit in the best way possible. His shield does get stabbed insanely early and maybe a small buff to that would be good. I don't think he should have good tech rolls but you have to really mess up to not punish him in a tech chase.

I would be able live with having the really bad shield and tech rolls if R.O.B had the other parts of his game good enough to compensate for them. He is a great gimper and his projectiles are good but its not enough to justify the holes in his character. I would like to be able to reliably jab reset like pretty much any other character in the game, have Dsmash not so easy to get out of, and make his throws vary more so one has a high throw arc and one low so I can keep the entire cast at bay so I don't have to use my awful close range defense. (Foward low back high?) Also gyro should not disappear nearly instantly after one throw, but gradually have a smaller window to pick it up. You should be rewarded to keep the same gyro around and other items like Diddy Kong's bananas stick around forever and arguably have more utility. (Not the best thing to compare character for balance like this but eh you get my point)

I do not want changes that make the character lose a lot of his unique traits and tech like getting a gyro instantly in hand through Down-B or changing is recovery to be regained on hit in exchange for less boosts or something of the sort. If you disagree with me or have another idea I'll totally talk about it with you.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@ Player-1 Other than shield size, none of those really help ROB at all, he doesn't need any of them.

Also gyro disappearing when thrown has the benefit of being more difficult for the opponent to pick up because they have a limited window to work with. I don't think that really needs a change tbh. Often times if it bounces off them or off their shield you still have time to do something (like fire a laser) and then pick it up if they were close.

I have plenty of ideas for subtly changing ROB into a better character with worse recovery (a la their new focus), but PMBR PMDT isn't taking ROB suggestions from anyone but JCaesar, so it's a fruitless endeavor, ROB will forever be mediocre.

Spoiler

but if they are reading this, please nerf his recovery by removing/reducing his fair jumping (momentum gained when fair {or another aerial} is used at the end of an up-b), make his side-b ledge sweetspot less stupid, and change dair from a thruster attack to a downward blow with his base that doesn't give momentum, so he can't stall with it, but can use it as a better combo starter/extender (because currently it is not that great for that)

 

[Dandizzle]

I'm not saying it would be a direct buff but I think keeping a gyro around its pretty skillful and I think its a good gameplay mechanic. You could make it so it doesn't apply when an enemy takes it if thats possible but one throw and done just doesn't seem interesting to me. It pretty much just makes it a projectile you can catch and glide toss with, but takes forever to use. I see R.O.B as a character that has a few main concepts:

-Gimps While he doesn't have a very good meteor all his specials and fair are really good for gimps and is very important to his gameplay. Recovery nerfs will help him here.
-Projectiles It helps him in neutral, helps him gimp, and overall is a very important part of R.O.B. He can't really straight up camp but they help him play more defensively. I talked about my feelings about the gyro, as I think catching gyros that have hit the opponent etc. more often could make his gameplay for him and the opposing player more interactive.
-Offstage gameplay I think R.O.B's ability to chase offstage is much better than other characters and any recovery nerfs that would hurt this are bad for the character. (And his recovery is manageable anyway)
-Item game Pretty good glide tosses and cool tech with the gyro make me think that R.O.B is and should be very good at utilizing items. My only complaint about this is his high throw arcs that make it hard to hit short characters.
-Chaingrabs I think R.O.Bs chaingrabs against spacies and his ability to get some regrabs against others of the cast are very important to him because they allow him to rack up damage and in the case of the space animals, make the matchup MUCH more doable for him. I don't think they should be messed with at all.

That wasn't in any order even though I think some are more important than others. Does anyone disagree with this list?

 

[(1UP)]

i am relatively indifferent to whatever happens to ROB in terms of buffs/nerfs,
but please in the name of god and and all that is holy, do not touch gyro

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm not saying it would be a direct buff but I think keeping a gyro around its pretty skillful and I think its a good gameplay mechanic. You could make it so it doesn't apply when an enemy takes it if thats possible but one throw and done just doesn't seem interesting to me. It pretty much just makes it a projectile you can catch and glide toss with, but takes forever to use.

If you are only getting one throw out of each gyro, you are going it wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku9hLcX27Ug&t=744
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NBlF18kgYA&t=549

 

[Dandizzle]

Aaaahhh I'm getting blown up for my word choices hahaha, yea sometimes you can just get it again and again but I would like it to be more of a onstage obstacle and allow for multiple throws in different ways, clearly you don't agree which is cool, not the first thing I'd want changed anyway. Btw you got a good set of you verse the space animals? Looking for new ways to get grabs and create space despite Fox's speed and Falco lasers. I'd imagine Wolf is a lot easier because no fullscreen lasers and more importantly a crouch cancelable shine, but I can't remember fighting a good one.

 

[Player-1]

@ Player-1 Other than shield size, none of those really help ROB at all, he doesn't need any of them.

Also gyro disappearing when thrown has the benefit of being more difficult for the opponent to pick up because they have a limited window to work with. I don't think that really needs a change tbh. Often times if it bounces off them or off their shield you still have time to do something (like fire a laser) and then pick it up if they were close.

I have plenty of ideas for subtly changing ROB into a better character with worse recovery (a la their new focus), but PMBR PMDT isn't taking ROB suggestions from anyone but JCaesar, so it's a fruitless endeavor, ROB will forever be mediocre.

Spoiler

but if they are reading this, please nerf his recovery by removing/reducing his fair jumping (momentum gained when fair {or another aerial} is used at the end of an up-b), make his side-b ledge sweetspot less stupid, and change dair from a thruster attack to a downward blow with his base that doesn't give momentum, so he can't stall with it, but can use it as a better combo starter/extender (because currently it is not that great for that)

All of those help rob lmao

 

[Dandizzle]

The animation for some of R.O.Bs moves doesn't match the hitbox either, the biggest offenders being dair and Fsmash IMO. Can we at least agree that hitboxes should be consistent to what the moves actually look like? Not even saying this for an indirect buff it's just lame all around.

 

[bubbaking]

Looking for new ways to get grabs and create space despite Fox's speed and Falco lasers. I'd imagine Wolf is a lot easier because no fullscreen lasers and more importantly a crouch cancelable shine, but I can't remember fighting a good one.

There is no such reliable way against a good defensive Fox. You just have to bait them to whiff, punish really laggy moves like smashes, and catch messed-up techskill. Trying to grab otherwise will get you shined, usmashed, and all kinds of bad. Falco is way easier. You just gotta remember that you have a reflector. If you hit him with his own laser, you can often frame-trap into a grab. If he doesn't shoot lasers, then that just makes it easier for you to use your gyro, zone with tilts, etc. Wolf is super easy, and not even because of his shine or his blaster length. It's actually because of how slow his blasters move. They're a lot easier to reflect on reaction, and when you do reflect them, you actually move faster than them, so you end up in Wolf's face, maybe after tagging him with the sideB, and his blaster is still coming at him behind you. A lot of times, Wolf players will try to punish me only to get tagged and then combo'd by their own blaster. When they actually respect the blaster, then you've got your grab. Without a doubt, Wolf is a decent MU for ROB, Falco is very doable, and Fox is just hard and a pretty bad MU for ROB, I'd say.

 

[berto]

Any stages that you guys recommend for when going up against sheik? As you guys mentioned I also have a really hard time against sheik, and I guess the least I could (aside from just getting better) is taking her to better stages for myself

 

[bubbaking]

I recommend going to a larger stage, where you can zone easily, with larger blastzones so that you can abuse the fact that you're a heavy character with a much better recovery than Sheik's. This way, your gimping ability and survivability become more meaningful, and you can take full advantage of ROB's tilts and Boost abilities. Personally, I prefer Dracula's.

Got a nice 'social' question to ask you guys? Do any of you play other FGs, and if so, which ones? I'm awfully partial to Skullgirls and a bit of BBCP myself.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

Dreamland is one of my favorites to take Sheik to as well. Like Bubba said, you can really give her a hard time in the KO department when your weight and mobility are so good.

As for the social question, I used to play a lot of Third Strike, but that game's pretty dried up now.

 

[Dandizzle]

I would play Skullgirls and maybe Ultra if my PC was working and I like to play BBCP on my friends PS3. Im trash at it but sometimes Yuki Terumi goes deep.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Large stages don't actually work against a good sheik, not for ROB anyways. I used to think we could out camp her, but that's not actually the case. She has too much vertical mobility and her hurtboxes change too much to reliably hit her with our projectiles, which have small hitboxes and a lot of cool down (especially gyro on miss). She can charge her needles or throw her needles safely while moving up and down like that, and then once her needles are charged she is a huge threat to approach while she's airborne, can tack on 18 percent if she hits them (which is easier to do if she's grounded tho). The aerial needle throws stuff approaches from afar or anywhere not directly underneath her, and she can come down with one her of her extremely meaty aerials if you get too close for the needles to hit. You won't be crouch canceling that aerial if she's been tacking on damage with her needles. And if you use side-b to reflect them if thrown while grounded you can't do it on reaction because needles are too quick, so you have to read when she will throw them which is asking to be baited. That's why I think small stages are good, it lets you get up in her face quickly so you can still CC her aerials and not have to deal with as many needles early on. Lack of platforms also helps, it stops her from using them to get good needle angles and land safely after throwing them.
I used to think I could also out-survive her, but that's still only partly true- sheik can intercept high recoveries easily (one of ROB's strengths in terms of recovery) and can use needles to easily intercept low recoveries (which forces ROB below side-b sweetspot range and into his very bad/predictable up-b sweetspot range). Here, I've got some handy dandy videos of me vs another top 3 PM player in my state, who appears to have picked up sheik in PM almost exclusively to deal with my ROB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFEWkEyswak
Ignore the last game of me as Roy, that was an experiment/for practice, trying to bring up my secondaries to my ROB's level.
I also played him earlier in tourney, test running my samus for the first two games then taking a game as ROB and losing the fourth (skip to 9:15): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyg-DVUr0vM
I have improved at the matchup from my first try at it from a week earlier, if you want to see the progression of our matchup, watch this set first (split into 3 vids with no sound and a bit laggy, lame as ****) and then the above two in reverse order. But if you see some questionable choices in the above games, the reasoning is probably answered by the consequences of a better choice that gets stuffed anyways in earlier games because it's ****in' sheik.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbnu2DRIYF0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbzC1-FGloo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4GlYY8sqNw
Note: i also hopefully have some solutions in the work, imprôving my punish game on sheik and my responses to her being able to go airborne so quickly, i'll be able to test them next time I play him likely about a week from now.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, ROB:Sheik is just a bad MU for us, no matter which way you slice it. ROB can't really outcamp anybody with decent camping potential. I would just prefer space so that I can abuse ROB's really good tilts, fairs, and boost mix-ups. Performing grounded sideB preemptively (as a 'read', in some cases) is kind of a necessity in a lot of MUs, not just vs Sheik. Sheik also has her own blindspot, which is directly beneath her. Yes, she has some nifty aerials, but they do not cover that space well and we can force trades, which would be in our favor, or just beat out her stuff. Therefore, ROB can Rotor in during a few points at neutral. If Sheik is on the ground and ROB is somewhat close, he can just zoom in. If she shoots needles, then you reflect them. If she does nothing, then you hit her or her shield, but you can make sideB safe if you space it so that you end up behind her (that move doesn't really have enough lag for her to WD OoS and punish). If she jumps, you end up right below her and aerial needles can't stop you. You can also just Rotor in on reaction to her jumping. This is part of the reason I prefer large stages; I get space for sideB to be a major part of my approach mix-ups.

The problem I have with smaller stages is that ROB's CQC options are terrible. His tilts and smashes aren't safe at that range, jumping puts him in immediate danger unless he is boost bairing away (which isn't much of an option on small stages), and even directs hits barely accomplish anything. CC dsmash, his best CQC option, can just be SDI'd and punished. There is another major problem with being in Sheik's face all the time. Sheik is the queen of grab punishes, her aerials are safe, even when CC'd, her crouch/crawl avoids a lot of things, and her CQC options in general vastly, VASTLY destroy ours. She can completely annihilate us when fighting up-close. If we can get a lucky non-SDI'd dsmash or a grab, then we can get a combo or CG going, but Sheik's jab, tilts, grab, and even her dsmash just beat us out at the in-fighting game.

@ Dandizzle , you should just get SG on the PS3 so you can play with me.

 

[Dandizzle]

How are you guys running into sheiks? I don't see anyone playing that character let alone be good enough to be a threat. When I make a matchip thread in 3.5 this will be great copy paste material. What's your skullgirls team bubbaking? If I ever got around to playing I would do something like big band cerebella but I really am trash at traditional fighters. Also who in BBCP?

 

[bubbaking]

We have a couple decent PM Sheiks around here. I beat Will's Sheik in tourney at one of the later Crossfire tourneys with ROB on Dracula's. I, myself, use Sheik for some choice MUs, like Zard and ZSS and whatnot.

I switch a bit between the SG chars, but for the most part my main teams are PW/Para/Bella and PW/Double/Bella. I can also use Peacock fairly decently. In BBCP, I play.....Amane. I've been thinking about picking up a better char, though, 'cause Amane's pretty bad.

 

[DrinkingFood]

There was already one notable sheik in PM in my state for awhile now (former brawl player named JNig who now mostly plays PM and goes by JSalt) but I beat his sheik in tourney so wasn't as convinced it was a bad matchup. But then I started beating the top player PM in our state, who in response transferred over his Melee sheik into PM because he read here that sheik was a bad matchup for ROB. There's a lot of other sheiks around here but none of them are top players currently. But now I'm working on anti-sheik strats as ROB (which I don't know if they'll actually be successful) and am also picking up another secondary just in case they don't work.

 

[Dandizzle]

Ehh most of the cool characters in BBCP are bad and not like I can't even take it seriously because I don't own the game or have a good controller for it. I should try amane because I like the dhalsim vibes I'm getting. You shouldn't switch because you think the character is bad just pick who you like, but I doubt you would anyway because you play R.O.B lmao.

 

[Dandizzle]

There a lot of different ways to play this character. Some more aggro, some more projectile spammy, some people will try to get them offstage and 20% and fair chain em' to death. How would you say you play R.O.B?

 

[bubbaking]

I actually mix up my gameplay a lot depending on the MU and even during matches. However, for the most part, I like to put gyro out and play around it. Fire a lazer, zone with tilts, fair above it, dash past it and grab, stuff like that. Once I get a knockdown, I go for some sick tech-chases 'cause ROB has a pretty braindead tech-chase game.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

I spend the whole game in the air with ROB, because I can.

 

[(1UP)]

There a lot of different ways to play this character. Some more aggro, some more projectile spammy, some people will try to get them offstage and 20% and fair chain em' to death. How would you say you play R.O.B?

aggro as fook
unless I'm platform camping where I can exploit it. That depends on the matchup and often individual players as well

 

[DrinkingFood]

I like to camp, but I'm finding it less and less effective as time goes on and realizing I need to be balls out aggressive to compete against most good players.

 

[Dandizzle]

I try to realize early on if they have a ****ty defense game or are bad at stopping projectiles and go from there. Usually based off the matchup. Sometimes its hard for me to transition to going ham to making some space and shooting em up but I am a lot better at it now.

 

[Baky]

You guys over here complaining about Shiek.

I'm months behind still complaining about Zelda. I guess some of us can't adapt so fast -_-

 

[Dandizzle]

I played Salem at SKTAR 3 and R.O.B couldn't seem to do nothing to Zelda. Her teledashes and reflector make it so she doesn't have 2 respect your space that much and she can kill so early which really sucks for R.O.B. I would do cross up nairs and not edgeguard her 2 far offstage, maybe grab the ledge than punish. I remember when I played Wario the next match I almost beat him so I really do think its a matchup thing.

EDIT: a HUGE point I left out is the possibility of Shielda. R.O.B has a bad matchup against Shiek and if you should watch yourself fighting Zelda's if you know they use Down-B because you don't want none o' that. Because of this I will leave this matchup as unclear.

 

[bubbaking]

I feel Zelda really isn't that bad. Her hitbox priority is annoying, but she's slow, so we can easily get in quickly if she tries something laggy, like planting a Din's. Angle your lasers so you don't have to worry about it coming back at you, and if she doesn't land-cancel Nayru's, its lag can be punished. Also, the moment we send her into the air, like via a grab, we can harass her fairly well. This is also one of the few MUs where uthrow actually does something at high %'s.

 

[Dandizzle]

Well I think ur wrong m8, fight me irl. I haven't played that matchup since SKTAR tho and I was a lot worse then. We using this thread as a poor mans matchup thread lmao.

 

[Baky]

Honestly the only complaint I have in the matchup is early kills with f-air/b-air. Also, ROB is a big target so they're easy to land. Also, shield pokes etc etc

I have a 3/3 set wins against Zelda (as ROB) in tournament so far but playing her is always a nail biter for me.

 

[Dandizzle]

If you guys hate all these characters then what character do you like to fight the most? R.O.B vs Ike its my favorite match in the game, it just plays very honestly and down to skill/hard reads.

 

[DrinkingFood]

ROB vs Ike only plays honestly if you choose not to camp lolol
I really really like ROB vs fox just because i like chaingrabbing him and gimping him free
And dthrow combos into a usmash kill at 105 on stages without high ceilings, so if hedoesn't end up on a platform it's 0-death if you get a grab past 20