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I'm stuck on the Cloud Matchup

CHOMPY

Sinbad: King of Sindria
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Chompy621
How do I punish Clouds Dair? None of my aerials don't have any priority against his aerials. What is the best way to bait out Clouds attacks?

Any suggestions as to how I should handle the Cloud matchup?
 
Joined
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How do I punish Clouds Dair? None of my aerials don't have any priority against his aerials. What is the best way to bait out Clouds attacks?

Any suggestions as to how I should handle the Cloud matchup?
I suggest just moving out of the way or counter it
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
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3DS FC
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Then how do you approach against Cloud?
That could be difficult I'd say run up and shield and see his reaction after that fall back and get a aura sphere snice it won't take long to charge and get him off stage this best advice I can give as a former lucario main but I would say this is where switch to pit
 
Last edited:

KakuCP9

What does it mean to be strong?
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Narnia, Canada
You can't challenge Cloud aerials directly, but after throwing him, he'll have trouble dealing with AS whist landing and taking him flatter stages like FD, Duck hunt or a lesser extent SV will help you take advantage of this better (also flat stages will also prevent getting abused by his other aerials). Don't be too hasty to approach him just because he can charge limit, he'll get it anyway by hitting you or getting hit. Instead, stay mid-range using foxtrots and nair to get some space to get him to do an action such as attacking or retreating. While his foxtrot is on a similar level, his ground buttons are unsafe on block and lead to little. If he's hanging back and charging limit, try to get him to roll by getting into roll distance and charging AS to beat fwd roll using the charge hitbox or back roll with the projectile (his roll is pretty crummy to boot ). His other aerials such as nair and fair are good for spacing, but not on shield where you abuse the grab weakness I pointed out. FH Dair can be punished by AS or dash attack while uair is mostly a juggle tool. B-rev/ wavebounce are always handy to bait stuff or punish poor approach attempts either by firing AS at him or using the charge hitbox. Also AS is good against his recovery since it doesn't snap the ledge easily. My knowledge on the MU is limited since I haven't played it my self, but I hope it helps. It definitely an uphill battle.

also Loota's advice
Why bother going offstage when you can AS him every time he can't autosnap to the ledge with his upB? You shouldn't be going offstage against anyone in general, Lucario wants to sit on the edge with a partially charged AS ready when needed.

That matchup is bad indeed, but Lucario does have genuine strengths in it too. Don't take Cloud to BF/DL and he will have serious trouble landing against AS. Couple that with his uthrow followups needing to be jumped out of (or airdodge into other followups) to safely escape after not being guaranteed anymore, he will have to land a lot without midair jump left (which in turn can send him offstage). Also, you shouldn't be trying to outcamp him with AS, just stay in midrange, utilize his good foxtrot options and have a nearly charged AS ready so you're actually able to threaten whatever he's doing. Just never challenge any of his moves head to head in neutral and maximize your juggle/landing/edgeguard punishes and you're good to go. Make him fear your aura more than you fear his limit shenanigans too.

Still, it's the matchup I'd like to play the least alongside ZSS, his gameplan requires a lot less effort to succeed and in the end, his overtuned kit poops on all of our moves head on with superior mobility. Limit break also somehow exists on top of everything to make things even more stupid. It definitely affects Lucario's viability but just how much remains to be seen, it hasn't exactly been played that much in relevant settings.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
639
3DS FC
2595-4014-1734
You can't challenge Cloud aerials directly, but after throwing him, he'll have trouble dealing with AS whist landing and taking him flatter stages like FD, Duck hunt or a lesser extent SV will help you take advantage of this better (also flat stages will also prevent getting abused by his other aerials). Don't be too hasty to approach him just because he can charge limit, he'll get it anyway by hitting you or getting hit. Instead, stay mid-range using foxtrots and nair to get some space to get him to do an action such as attacking or retreating. While his foxtrot is on a similar level, his ground buttons are unsafe on block and lead to little. If he's hanging back and charging limit, try to get him to roll by getting into roll distance and charging AS to beat fwd roll using the charge hitbox or back roll with the projectile (his roll is pretty crummy to boot ). His other aerials such as nair and fair are go for spacing, but not on shield where you abuse the grab weakness I pointed out. FH Dair can be punished by AS or dash attack while uair is mostly a juggle tool. B-rev/ wavebounce are always handy to bait stuff or punish poor approach attempts either by firing AS at him or using the charge hitbox. Also AS is good against his recovery since it doesn't snap the ledge easily. My knowledge on the MU is limited since I haven't played it my self, but I hope it helps. It definitely an uphill battle.

also Loota's advice
That is really good advice you did way better than I could've
 
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