I'm starting to dislike tournament rules.

[RDK]

Mature hats are banned in the Brawl boards.

I heard intelligence and reasoning are too. < : O

 

[Pink Reaper]

I heard intelligence and reasoning are too. < : O

Only in tournaments, you can turn them on in friendlies

 

[MookieRah]

When you're married to someone like Buzz, the fun and learning never ends.

Oh wow, so you are Buzz's wife. I didn't know you posted here.

@Buzz: You lucky *******, you have a wife that posts on the **** boards, that is totally not fair, considering how much my woman hates smash.

@thread:
I hate to say it but we've gone hardcore off topic, we really need to get back on track again.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Theres not really much more to say, the thread will probably die soon. Its hard to argue with the overflow of information that we(by which I mean you) have posted. This argument will more than likely come up again, probably soon, and when it does, we can just link everyone to this tread.

 

[sugarpoultry]

It's true. When a forum that consists mainly for tournament style playing is being attacked by the minority, its not really a win win situation or discussion.

Oh wow, so you are Buzz's wife. I didn't know you posted here.

@Buzz: You lucky *******

Heh, thats like the 6th or 7th time someone has called my husband that.

And yeah, I love being here! ^_~ I was not at all interested in smash until I met him.

 

[DraginHikari]

Heh, this time something a little more constructive. I took some time and looked a little deeper into this, sorry if it's a bit long:

I've kind looked inot this similar subject in other games as well as what I've seen in the smash boards. What's fair doesn't really have anything to do with Casual players hostility towards general competition.

The general issues with casual players draws from the fear of the unknown in a sense. The idea is mostly that human in a thought process tend to fear what they don't understand or don't want to understand.

I want to try to put this in persepctive, take your average professional sport like American Football. Those 'Fans' tend to make alot of assumptions about things surrounding the games and believe that they truely know what goes on behind the scene and how things work. However, do any of them know what all goes in from the angle they see from the way the players, coaches, and refrees see? Most of the time no.

It's the same thing with this situation, casual most of the time don't know what goes on in the background of competition if they do not take part themselves and assumptions are quick to form. Cause people to become stubborn and believe they really know what's going on.

However, unlike professional sports, there is another problem involved in the social aspect, I'm sorry to say this:

Professional Gaming is looked down on by much of the general population. I've seen many newpaper articles in even my local paper about concern over the possibility of video game competition being considered a real sport usually being refered to as 'teens pushing buttons at each other'. Even as untrue as the statement may be, it's still how I hear it referred to as. This social stereotyping has a huge factor on what starts the 'false' information regarding the competitive scene. You can dismiss it as ignorance, but the problem is that ignorance like many other things gets stronger when enough people believe it to make it a solid view on a subject.

But here's where it gets complicated, when a casual finds out about this scene and decides not to take part in it creates two different groups, which are now being lumped together by some viewpoints. The neutral casuals, which make up a vast majority of casual players, really don't care if a tournment scene or not, they usually don't view it as a part of their lives so they don't tend to pay attention to it. These types are uncommon on this forum because most of them could care less about it and the majority wouldn't even take the time to resigter.

The other group is what may of the competitives here constantly refer to, for some reason the other extreme for some reason feels they got something to prove. The biggest issue with this group is that often times as we all tend to do, how something appears tends to matter more then what is said, which is why the logic doesn't sink through a majority of the time. And butting heads with this group becomes lengthy because most are unwilling to budge from their perspective. With the internet especially it becomes a battle which is difficult to win due to anomity which could only be completely removed if you forcefully removed people causing it which is still very hard to do.

Alot of factors play into these types of casuals but that's too long of a list to get into especially consider how much has changed in the gaming world between Melee and Brawl on the term of competitive play. However, I don't necessarily believe the competitive side is flawless in their views either, but since this isn't really the place to get into that, I'm leaving that alone for now.

Well, that's my bit take it for what you will...

 

[Pink Reaper]

The other group is what may of the competitives here constantly refer to, for some reason the other extreme for some reason feels they got something to prove. The biggest issue with this group is that often times as we all tend to do, how something appears tends to matter more then what is said, which is why the logic doesn't sink through a majority of the time. And butting heads with this group becomes lengthy because most are unwilling to budge from their perspective. With the internet especially it becomes a battle which is difficult to win due to anomity which could only be completely removed if you forcefully removed people causing it which is still very hard

I believe the reason the "Extreme" casuals seem so steadfast(or should I say bullheaded) in their ideals is do to the fact that when a competitive player attempts to make them understand WHY the rules are as such, we begin to degrade what they perceive as skill. As you can probably tell from many of the posts in this thread, there are quite a few players who feel that items should be in because they prove skill. This point is more often than not refuted right away(usually by Mookie or Buzz) but in doing so you have essentially belittled what the casual player believes to be skill.

It comes from the fact that many people who don't subscribe to other's rules, they tend to create their own rules, whether they are aware of it or not. For a long time before I knew of advanced techniques or about the fact that there was actual skill involved in Smash, my rules were as such: No items, 5 min time match, FD, shielding/csticking was for n00bs. When I learned about the generally accepted rules of smash, I thought they were preposterous. Why would people who say they have skill use the C-stick? It was only after I took the time to learn advanced techs that my self made rules were actually LESS fun. This is because, at heart, I am a competitive person and I quickly realized that the rules that had been created by tourny goers made things more fair and balanced. This isn't to say I don't like playing for fun and I definitely don't agree with all of the rules. I love playing on levels like Onett, Peach's castle, Fourside and occasionally an all pokeball battle on Pokemon Stadium just because I can.

 

[Anther]

I can't believe I've stayed up an hour reading this entire thread x.x.
Actually, it's pretty entertaining... and I'm glad there are people that are casual and actually do research before deciding something is wrong and deserves to be hated, and glad people will actually argue in futility, but there's always that one poster that reads and is enlightened...

But yeah... Just a pointless but beautiful lil butterfly flapping its wings..

 

[Pink Reaper]

I can't believe I've stayed up an hour reading this entire thread x.x.
Actually, it's pretty entertaining... and I'm glad there are people that are casual and actually do research before deciding something is wrong and deserves to be hated, and glad people will actually argue in futility, but there's always that one poster that reads and is enlightened...

But yeah... Just a pointless but beautiful lil butterfly flapping its wings..

Don't lie Anther, you know you read this entire thread because you were just another casual player who hated on the tourney scene, however now that you've seen the infallible logic of competitive smashers you cant help but want to mend your woeful ways.

Or maybe you just posted so you could be subscribed to a thread that you know is full of nothing but pointless arguments as most people in this tread wont actually change their mindsets. Either way, its 2:30 in the morning and Im tired so Im going to bed.

 

[Inocram]

A couple more of these threads and we might get some where, so continue making them please. /sarcasm off

As much as I hated the craze on the WoW forums, I wish someone would just sum these up nicely with a quick "It's fine, Learn2Play, QQmore"

If you don't like tournament rules, don't play with them. Especially don't whine about them, as if they're forced upon you. Just embrace why these rules exist.

Oh, and remember. All competitive players are totally out to get the casuals. We held a secret meeting where we decided to ban Hyrule temple and the other stages because casuals were just having too much fun on them. Mwahahaha...

 

[greenblob]

If anything, competitive Smashers should have more of a right to whine, since it's more often that casual rules are forced upon them as opposed to competitive rules being forced upon casual players.

 

[Teh Popo]

Then don't make a topic like this and people will not get that impression.

The "casual versus competitive" card has been played way too many times around here. It's about high time people stop *****ing about either side of the community. Play the game however you want. Nobody's going to stop you.

Now mods, do your **** job and close this thread.

Smooth Criminal

I have never met such an UNsmooth criminal before, in all my life.

Sweet freaking Jesus can someone lock this thread and ban all the scrubs? This is a competative forum that so far has the image of a Gamefaqs forum. It makes me cry. Stupid scrubs.

I wish they'd ban flaming elitist trolls like yourself.

I'm by no means an "arrogant elitist." You say we should explain these things? How about you read through the pages of this thread AGAIN and realize that people DID try to explain, and that YOU are the one not grasping it. Hell we have so many guides on SWF, I'm STILL reading them. They explain everything, how could you ask for more?

If you actually read my replies, you'd see I AGREED with MookieRah, but ironically, since YOU don't seem to grasp it, I'll reword it: Sakurai is the one that made final smashes, levels, and items unbalanced. I'm not a casual***, nor will I ever be. I plan on playing some Brawl tournaments with tournament rules, and some item matches with my friends on banned levels for fun, every now and again. Those calling me a casual or scrub from this point on will be trolls, no ifs ands or buts about it.

I never insulted anyone, and I never intended to. You'd find that if you got to know who I am, that I'm one of the nicer, more joking guys of the Atlantic South. Instead you assumed based off my post that I am automatically some "arrogant elitist." I represent myself, and my views only. I am not a representation of the entire community of SWF so don't take it like that. Sit back and think about it for a moment.

Did it ever occur to you that I might be one of those guys who enjoy Smash with items and banned stages? No cause you don't know a **** thing about me. I never owned this game or a GC, I picked it up competitively from the start. So what does that make me?

If you want to call the pros "casual noobs" when they play with items, that's your term not mine. I call it "relaxing after a days work of Wooping ***."

Get real here people.

Sorry if I misinterpreted what you said, it's just that you worded it in such a way that it sounded like you were implying that anyone who even has some qualms about tournament rules or plays with items at all are scrubs.

I hate to say it but we've gone hardcore off topic, we really need to get back on track again.

Bah, I liked it going off topic. It distracted the trolls from bashing me hardcore.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^We mostly want this thread locked because we already have a million threads just like this. Explaining the same things over and over again starts to seem pointless after a while. And after a while, threads like this (when competatvie players try to explain why the rules are the way they are) normally just end in a flame war or just go around in circles for days. This thread has indeed been going around in circles as new people start entering the thread without reading the previous pages, and start argueing points that have already been disputed. Then more people come in and read these points, and bring up almost the same arguements that were used against it. If people actually took the time to read every page (or at least the first 5 or so) of a thread before posting, this could be a much more constructive thread. But as it is, I think this thread has already served it's purpose, explaining your views on tournament rules and ours (though yours seem to have changed to be more like ours throught the thread), so it's reasonable to ask this to be locked. If you can keep a constructive disscussion going, then be my guest. I'm simply stating my stance on this.

 

[flyinfilipino]

@Teh Popo: And then you come back and try to start something again! Thread over plz.

 

[RDK]

Popo, try wading through 50 pages of **** scrub argumens in a thread just like this every other week and you'll know why we want threads like these insta-locked.

 

[DraginHikari]

If anything, competitive Smashers should have more of a right to whine, since it's more often that casual rules are forced upon them as opposed to competitive rules being forced upon casual players.

I find your view of 'forced' kind of awkard. In reality no one has forced you to do anything. The only thing the mouthy casuals which as I said in my last post is a small majority of the actual casuals is challenge the view and you've fired back. Will anything a casual say change the competitive scene. No? Then it's really not forced on you at all.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Discussions like this one are the very reason I started a blog. I hoped to clarify recurring issues throughout the community. Apparently, it still needs work.

Popo, you criticize those around you for flaming, but you are flaming people yourself. Your biggest problem is still that you refuse to educate yourself on the community and its history. You act like you know so much about this issue, yet your ignorance shines through every post. You are running into conflict because you lack humility. You will not let those with more experience explain things to you. You disagree and fight about everything.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Discussions like this one are the very reason I started a blog. I hoped to clarify recurring issues throughout the community. Apparently, it still needs work.

No one who actually NEEDS to read those blogs do Buzz, they're too long. the people who don't already know the answers to these issues are the ones who wont bother to learn them. Maybe if you could sum everything up in two or three lines but since you can't most of the uniformed will see it, say, "this is waaaaaay too long to read" then walk away(click away?)

Edit: @tehPopo if you really do intend to be a tourney player and understand that no one is forcing these rules on you when your playing friendlies/casuals then don't bother making threads like this, all it will do is ignite flames.

 

[sugarpoultry]

No one who actually NEEDS to read those blogs do Buzz, they're too long. the people who don't already know the answers to these issues are the ones who wont bother to learn them. Maybe if you could sum everything up in two or three lines but since you can't most of the uniformed will see it, say, "this is waaaaaay too long to read" then walk away(click away?)

Thing is, it takes a lot of words to let it sink into their heads. If you tried to sum it up, it would not work. People are too darn stubborn. If they wanted to be at all educated in the ways of logic, reading the entire article will do them some good.

 

[MookieRah]

Actually, I can think of a way to present the information in a format that casual players could read in a minute but also have access to pretty much ALL of the information they could want on a particular subject.

I was reading up on the stances of the current republican/democratic nominees at theissues.org and they have this REALLY easy way to cut the crap and get to the core of the candidates stance. They had a simple table outlining an issue then they put oppose, strongly oppose, favors, or strongly favors. Then to the side of that statement, it pulls up voting records and statements made by the candidate that express why they fall into that category.

Basically one could create a list of things that are universally accepted by competitive play, then put the reasons why in on the side with links for every topic that explains it. That way they have 3 options:
1: Quickly read the list of things.
2: Read the list as well as the topics to the right
3: Read the list, the topics, and have the option to delve deeper on a topic that they would like to see more information on.

That would provide a quick and easy way for people to understand the rules, and if done right would probably be used quite a bit in debates.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

You should be a writer for my blog, MR. ^_^

 

[RDK]

About Mookie's idea: why don't you guys make a thread utilizing that system and sticky it so we don't have to go through this same argument every other week?

 

[The Hypnotist]

It'd be funny though. Because the people that actually play on Hyrule aren't that good at the game. But M2kK would enter those tournies anyways just for the money and laughs. He could DSHL camp on Hyrule, and his reflector would help him out with items. Then they would BAN fox, and then he would own them on G&W's stage with Marth, then they would BAN Marth, and then they'd look stupid.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Oh, that's REAL mature....

*rolls eyes*

Oh and if it wasn't for this anything to win attitude, Hyrule would be a great place to fight in! But nOOOooo! Some schisse stain picks fox and spams lazers till up smash. Wow. Real skilled. Yeah, you won, but who looks stupid now?

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Oh, that's REAL mature....

*rolls eyes*

Oh and if it wasn't for this anything to win attitude, Hyrule would be a great place to fight in! But nOOOooo! Some schisse stain picks fox and spams lazers till up smash. Wow. Real skilled. Yeah, you won, but who looks stupid now?

 

[Red Exodus]

The game doesn't recognize skill or fairness, it recognizes winning and losing. The ends justify the means and if you don't do what it takes then you don't really want to win. Simple as that.

Don't bring up honor either, the game doesn't recognize that.

 

[NES n00b]

The game doesn't recognize skill or fairness, it recognizes winning and losing. The ends justify the means and if you don't do what it takes then you don't really want to win. Simple as that.

Don't bring up honor either, the game doesn't recognize that.

Not true. When looking at the end of the winning bonus things, I saw "Honor" and got 5,000 points for it.

 

[thesage]

Lol, if you want to play with honor, play in bonus mode.

And sheik and Marth would be banned if there was any honor in this game.

 

[AlphaZealot]

The day that I see SBO offer Smash as part of its event schedule, is when I think that the game has officially been recognized as a tourney-class game the world over. But it ain't there yet, and, sadly, I doubt it ever will. The fact that the very "scene" that does exist does plenty of in-fighting amongst themselves probably doesn't help the cause any, either.

I understand that SBO is held in the highest regards among the FGC, but it means almost nothing to any Smash player and probably never will. The Japanese Smash scene is like the smaller brother of the American one. The difference between traditional fighting games and Smash is the number of base users that own a game. With most of the traditional fighting games...well I don't think any have even broken the 1 million sales mark (I'm excluding newer versions of Tekken/Soul Caliber/etc). Meanwhile Smash is chugging along at between 6-8 million, depending on who you ask. Most of that base lies here, in America. However, traditional fighters have the opposite scenario, the game sells okay or even good in Japan (just a hundred thousand copies isn't bad for most of the traditional games), and then in America makes a comparable showing. The problem though is that America's population is much more spread out, so the community lags behind from the get go because of a lack of competition (less players = less chances to find things = tons of other problems). Smash struggled to get off the ground competitively (tons of reasons why but I won't get into it) but really hit its stride in America in 2005, which was when we also proved that our Japanese counterparts are no match for us (Ken went to Japan and beat all the best Smash players there, several high profile Smash players from Japan have come here and have yet to win a tournament over our best).

The sheer size of the competitive Smash scene now dwarfs EVERY other fighting game. In no other fighting game can you find tournaments all over the country on any given weekend. You can bring up 3S numbers if you want (what was it? 400 people at Evo world?) but the reality is no other fighting game in the world can compete with the numbers I'll show at the end of this post (Smash has yet to break 300, but breaks 100 more consistently and frequently than any other fighting game). The Japanese, simply because they have a smaller base players, will continue to lag behind because its a numbers game (percentages of x population dedicated to a game and then percentages of that population who are likely to be prodigies of sorts, with a higher population you have a higher chance of better players arising).

The Japanese were ahead when they held the advantage in other fightings games, but in Smash the playing field is way different, Americans hold a massive advantage. Its for this reason that you will see most of the best players arise out of America and its also for this reason that no competitive Smash player will care about the likes of SBO. Most could hardly care about EVO, but its a plus to be a part of an organization like EVO.

The in fighting has mostly died down into smaller fights over very minute, almost insignificant rules (should Onett be banneD? ZOMg who know/z).

As one other point, I believe (and this sentiment is shared by others) that after a game of Smash is released the competitive community should try to balance the amount of original material that gets left in with the certainty of results. In other words, if the material doesn't affect the outcome of a match, then it should be left in. For this reason alone we will have multiple stages. Only when it is warranted should something be removed/banned (items, certain stages). The current structure of tournaments, with counter picks, allows for a much larger variety of characters than a 1 or 2 stage system. Stages play to characters strengths and weaknesses more in Smash than most fighters, which is something that needs to be remembered.

Now, here are some numbers to chew on (these are for something else I'm currently working on, and these numbers are not yet even complete, I have a few other 100+ size tournaments to add to the list, all these tournaments were held in 2007).

IV.E.S.T.I.C.L.E (75 Participants)
January 6th
Wallingford, Connecticut
1. KoreanDJ
2. PC Chris
3. Darc
4. Vwins

SMYM 7: Midwest Circuit Championship (95 Participants)
1. Dope
2. Forward
3. Darkrain
4. Trail
5. Tink
5. Jiano
7. WuWu
//Add asterisk that only the top 7 were in the final pool

Cataclysm III (112 Participants)
March 3-4th
1. Mew2King $1008 (60%)
2. KoreanDJ $504 (30%)
3. ChuDat $168 (10%)
4. PC Chris
5. Forward
5. Husband
7. Cactuar
7. Cort

Evo South (128 Participants)
March 10-11th
Austin, Texas
1. Wobbles $700
2. Caveman $200
3. Darkness of Heart $100
4. Xzalla
5. KKK
5. ??
7. ??
7. ??

UCLA Monthly II (96 Participants)
March 24th
Westwood or Los Angeles, California
1. Hugs
2. SilentSpectre
3. Bob Money
4. BloodoftheFallen

Innsomnia V: Southern Circuit Event (116 Participants)
West Memphis, Arkansas
March 30th
1. Forward
2. Darkrain
3. Tink
4. DaShizWiz
5. Tope
5. KeepSpeedn
7. Meep
7. Kishprime

V.E.S.T.I.C.L.E. (70 Participants)
April 7th
Wallingford, Connecticut
1. KoreanDJ
2. PC Chris
3. Darc
4. Kaiser

Smash Royale III (108 Partcipants)
April 28th
San Bernardino, California
1. Ken
2. Isai
3. Bob $
4. BoA
5. DieSuperFly
5. Mango
7. Romeo
7. DC

1. Ken and Isai
2. Edrees and Wolf
3. DieSuperFly and Bob $
4. ManaCloud and Arash

Farmingdale (71 Participants)
May 5-6th
Long Island, New York
1. KoreanDJ $835
2. Mew2King $434
3. PC Chris $200
4. Bum $100
5. ChuDat $66
6. Chillin $33
//remove chudat/chillin and add an asterisk

1. Isai and Mew2King: $595
2. Chillin and ChuDat: $309
3. Husband and Wife: $142
4. KoreanDJ and Cactuar: $71
5. PC Chris and Kip: $47
6. Hayato and Cort: $22
//remove pc/kip and hayoto/cort and add asterisk

Evo East (64 Participants)
May 25-27th
Stamford, Connecticut
1. Mew2King $448
2. PC Chris $128
3. Cactuar $64
4. Cort

UCLA Monthly III (91 Participants)
May 26th
1. Ken
2. DieSuperFly
3. BloodoftheFallen
4. Mango


Pound 2 (200 Participants)
June 16-17th
Mount Airy, Maryland
1. ChuDat $2400
2. Mew2King $1040
3. PC Chris $520
4. Chillin $260
5. Drephen $156
5. PC Chris $156
7. DaShizWiz $104
7. Taj $104
9. KeepSpeen
9. KM
9. Forward
9. Cort

//Add asterick that 9th was also paid $65 each (KeepSpeedn, Forward, KM, and Cort)

Evo North (43 Participants)
June 22-24th
Northbrook, Illinois
1. Drephen $301
2. Viperboy $86
3. Mathos $43
4. Eddie

FC Diamond (256 Participants)
July 12-14th
Southbend, Indiana
1. Mew2King $2,000
2. PC Chris $1,000
3. ChuDat $500
4. Drephen $350
5. Vidjo $225
5. Taj $225
7. Darkrain $125
7. DaShizWiz $125

OC 3 (228 Participants)
July 20-22nd
Santa Fe Springs, California
1. PC Chris $1250
2. Mew2King $600
3. ChuDat $300
4. Ken
5. Drephen
5. The King
7. Vidjo
7. SilentWolf

Evo West (128 Participants)
July 27-29th
San Diego, California
1. Mew2King $896
2. PC Chris $256
3. ChuDat $128
4. Edrees
5. Hugs
5. Mr. Ganondorf
7. Roy
7. Mango

EVO World (270 Participants)
August 24-26th
Las Vegas, Nevada
1. Ken $5,000
2. Hugs $2,000
3. Mango $1,000
4. PC Chris $750
5. ChuDat $500
5. Eddie $500
7. Chillin $250
7. DieSuperFly $250

SCC (200 Participants)
September 29-30th
San Bernidino, California
1. Mew2King $2,400
2. PC Chris $1,200
3. Mango $400
4. Cort
5. ChuDat
5. Wobbles
7. Forward
7. Ken
//add asterick about money possibly being paid out to fourth

Viva La Smashtaclysm (188 Participants)
November 10-11th
Torrington, Connecticut
1. Azen $1692 60%
2. ChuDat $846 30%
3. KoreanDJ $282 10%
4. Mew2King
5. Drephen
5. PC Chris
7. Chillin
7. Darc

UCLA Monthly IV: The Return (120 Participants)
December 1st
California
1. Mango
2. Hugs
3. Edrees
4. Lucky
5. Bone
5. Gimpyfish
7. DEHF
7. Aesis

 

[MookieRah]

Why are you picking on Sheik and Marth? All of top and upper would be banned XD.

 

[Spellman]

Why are you picking on Sheik and Marth? All of top and upper would be banned XD.

lol I hope not! That'd be mighty hypocritical.

 

[thesage]

Why are you picking on Sheik and Marth? All of top and upper would be banned XD.

Cuz they take almost now skill to use. I picked up sheik randomly against my friends and other comp. players (who all go to tournaments) and *****. All you have to do is f-tilt spam and d-smash it's not that hard.... >.> F-tilt outranges and outprioritzes almost every other character. And Marth... is just Marth stfu. lolz.

Also, commenting on AZ's post, Pound 2 would've have gotten many more participants if the venue did not put a limit on the number of people who could attend. I wouldn't be surprised if like 230+ people came. Plus it was awesome. And KM ***** me. *Pound 3 won't have that problem this year too, yayuhz*

And lol@smash scene dying. I know a lot of pros are quitting when brawl starts, cuz they're tired of the game (and then rejoining later lolz), but with the addition of online and the word spreading (I've got at least 3 friends of mine who I'm training for future ssbm tournaments plus two who already were playing in it) that's already expanding the community. Imagine if every person who attended pound got one of their friends involved? MASSIVE EXPANSION

And is smash really the largest competitive fighting game out there? I'm not talking about copies sold, but like actual tournaments and ****.

 

[NES n00b]

TO sage, yes. . . . . .

 

[AlphaZealot]

I'm well aware of the caps.

FCD had a cap of 256
SCC/Pound 2 had a cap of 200
EVO West and EVO South had a cap of 128

And yes, it is the largest fighting game community, though DOA might give it a run for its money now that it is part of the CGS.

This was Smash's first year at EVO and it was already their second highest attended tournament title. Just look at the month of July to see what its like to play Smash. No other fighting game gets that kinda numbers. Essentially the entire US fighting game community revolves around EVO, you'd be hard pressed to find non-evo tournaments that break 100, even 70 people. Smash meanwhile has EVO + tons of other tournaments that get big numbers.

 

[MookieRah]

FCD would have broken more records if it wasn't for OC being so close.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Oh, that's REAL mature....

*rolls eyes*

Oh and if it wasn't for this anything to win attitude, Hyrule would be a great place to fight in! But nOOOooo! Some schisse stain picks fox and spams lazers till up smash. Wow. Real skilled. Yeah, you won, but who looks stupid now?

There are TONS of other reasons the level is banned.

 

[Card]

I'm well aware of the caps.

FCD had a cap of 256
SCC/Pound 2 had a cap of 200
EVO West and EVO South had a cap of 128

And yes, it is the largest fighting game community, though DOA might give it a run for its money now that it is part of the CGS.

This was Smash's first year at EVO and it was already their second highest attended tournament title. Just look at the month of July to see what its like to play Smash. No other fighting game gets that kinda numbers. Essentially the entire US fighting game community revolves around EVO, you'd be hard pressed to find non-evo tournaments that break 100, even 70 people. Smash meanwhile has EVO + tons of other tournaments that get big numbers.

Wow Alpha...

This post, combined with your previous one has been a serious eye opener for me (and I'm sure for many other members on the boards). What I mean to say is that... I knew that Smash was on the road towards becoming popular, but I honestly had no idea that it was as grand as you just described. I knew that Smash made its first appearance at EVO this year, but I had absolutely no idea that it had the 2nd most attendee's at the entire tournament! I always figured it took a backseat to the tons of other fighters at EVO which have been around for quite some time.


But there is something I am still confused about...

With all this attendance, and all this popularity across all of North America (Can't forget about Canada too!) and all these figures involving sales for the game.... why hasn't or why won't Smash become part of the Pro Circuit at MLG?

To me it seems like the next step for Smash Brawl would be for it to become officially sanctioned by the MLG and join the Pro Circuit along with it's other titles.... Yet evidence and some previous posts state that it won't happen..

Care to shed some light?

 

[SSBB_is_Epic]

Well... I could make a long winded response, but I'll be short and to the point:


Poker is the most competitive game in the world with the most money riding on it's games. It also involves considerable amounts of luck.

While I'm not saying to throw everything and anything into Brawl tournaments, why not loosen up a bit? Absolute fairness, in my opinion, doesn't make for the best tournaments.

 

[NES n00b]

Well... I could make a long winded response, but I'll be short and to the point:


Poker is the most competitive game in the world with the most money riding on it's games. It also involves considerable amounts of luck.

While I'm not saying to throw everything and anything into Brawl tournaments, why not loosen up a bit? Absolute fairness, in my opinion, doesn't make for the best tournaments.

It also has the least consistent results.

 

[Card]

Well... I could make a long winded response, but I'll be short and to the point:


Poker is the most competitive game in the world with the most money riding on it's games. It also involves considerable amounts of luck.

While I'm not saying to throw everything and anything into Brawl tournaments, why not loosen up a bit? Absolute fairness, in my opinion, doesn't make for the best tournaments.

To be honest, you are not the first person to bring up a wide comparison between Poker and Smash.

I'll start by saying, Poker requires so much skill to play professionally... it isn't funny. Do you honestly believe that the professional poker players consistently place in the top 20 at tournaments because they are Lucky? Luck is such a small part of the ridiculous mind-games, tactics, strategy, and mathematics found in Poker. In fact, most Poker players have trained so hard in the game, that they cannot even tell that Luck is a factor in their game play.

You should also know that Smash should not be compared with Poker. The same goes for any fighting game for that matter. Nevermind Apples and Oranges... this is Apples and Elephants we are talking about. One of the most obvious reasons for items being banned in Smash Melee was due to Exploding Crates/Capsules. Having an exploding capsule appear on you and kill you during a tournament is uncontrollable and chaotic. Imagine if you were playing in a poker tournament, and very rarely a man would walk in (for the sake of comparison, lets say this mans name was CAPSULE), he would come up to a random person in the middle of their poker game and that person would immediately be knocked out of the tournament.

At that point... it has nothing to do with Luck... but with Unavoidable Chaos.