I'm starting to dislike tournament rules.

[Pink Reaper]

People are so misinformed:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=116475

It's the 4th post I think. Yellow crosses are item spawn points.

I WAS LIED TO v.v I asked about that around the time I signed up here and someone told me that it was just the entirety of the level.

Oh well, thanks for correcting me Witchking.

 

[CT Chia]

i see where your getting at, but the point of tournament rules is to try and make the game more even and based on skill rather than luck. what fun is it in a tournament if its based on luck after you have been practicing your skill to get better. about banning characters though, don't worry they will never do that . the devleopers already make the characters somewhat balanced (as much as they can but theres still tiers), but anyone is allowed to use anyone which makes it fair. and what some places do is hold low tier tournaments to prevent the "cheapness" some might find in top tier characters. dont worry about it, just go with the flow and play however u want. some ppl prefer tournament rules, like myself.

600TH POST@!@!!@!!@@!!!

 

[thesage]

Just out of curiosity, when someone says somebody else "owned" or "*****" a thread, do they mean that the person was just being cool, or that they supposedly "owned" the thread by "owning" the thread creator?

I don't wanna be oversensitive if people are just giving props for MookieRah stating his opinion politely and intelligently, but if they think he's "******" my opinions or something, then I want nothing to do with them.

It means he's disproved your arguments with infallible (IMO) evidence.

And I want items banned not only because of exploding capsules, but because tournament matches are already so close that one mistake could cost you the entire match. A favorable item spawn can win the match for them.

And some people need to stop thinking that playing with items + a banned stage means that they will beat an average tournament player. They'll use the reason why the stage is banned against you and the items won't be enough to help you.

Peach's Castle and Venom are banned because of camping reasons. And characters like jigglypuff can stall there reallly badly. Infinite Mountain is banned because it gives some players favorable positions at times to attack (and platform overload in my opinion + waveshining people off the edges).

And if you can't even go to tournaments cuz you're not a "lucky US player" then stop caring about what we do. It's not like there are any tournaments outside of the US /sarcasm

 

[MookieRah]

Do you call me casual cause I´m not a lucky US-American who has plenty of tournaments to go to or do you call me casual cause you think I would be bad at SSB?

I call you casual cause everything you said was in support to everyone else who claimed themselves as being casual. You may be competitive within your ruleset; however, you complain about the tournament scene in which you actually don't have a very good understanding about.

So when you´re out of arguments you start insulting people? I guess that´s the America way, yehaa!

I insult people who make dumb arguments that shows how little they know about what they are trying to debate, which is what you were trying to do in a nutshell. I can assure you, I am far far far from being "out of arguments."

OMG you documented it?
So did it happen on 3rd July 2001 at 5pm? Exploding containers are nothing special, but the ones you can´t react one a very very rare. I don´t know if that´s any different in the NTSC-version, though.

They are documented through this website in tournament result threads.

How old are you? BTW I don´t wanna debate on the randomness cause I already did in this thread.

I'm 22, and I'm assuming you call out my age because I made a statement about taking you on with any ruleset. However; you need to realize the difference between merely stating that I have no qualms playing you under your own rules, and basing my entire argument on how I could *beat* you.

Secondly,any and all of your arguments have been easily refuted by anyone knowledgable on the subject. As was such with any argument pro-random you made.

Guess what?
-I don´t care about your ****ing tournaments
-I never said you would take out the soul out of the game. The soul of Smash is (in my opinion) to beat the crap out of your opponent.
-Moderators who insult people... mmh nice forum, really nice.

1: If you don't care about our tournaments then don't criticize us and talk as if we *fear* items and all the other nonsense you spewed. You make all these crazy assumptions based on stereotypes, tell us how you think we should play it, then say you don't even care. Don't be surprised when someone calls you out on being a ******.
2: I never said that you specifically said anything about taking the soul out of the game, I was simply stating about the ignorant people that did so once Brawl was announced. This was in response to a ridiculous large sweeping generalization that you made about competitive tourney goers. If you actually went back to confirm the context in which things were said you would have realized this.
3: Me being a moderator has nothing to do with you being ignorant and me calling you on it. I don't insult people who don't deserve it, and when I insult them it's usually through the fact that they left a gaping hole in their argument.

I don´t claim that every American tournament player is ignorant, but A LOT of them are.

So now you are making irrelevant statements about American ignorance? Seriously, where does this come from, what does this have to do with what is going on, and how does that make YOU less ignorant on the subject at hand? You are calling me out as being ignorant yet I am knowledgable on this subject.

A lot of Pros in Call of Duty or Warcraft 3, Mario Strikers or whatever don´t even compete in tournaments due to the internet. So just because you meet somewhere to compete in a strange version of Smash Bros doesn´t mean you´re the best. But since "ingorant" is a synonym for "American" I forgive you... not.

I actually know a successful CAL player for Call of Duty. My friend Wicz who went by Cuduni. He wasn't the best by any means, but he was part of a pretty high up there team known as Bacon. They played competitively, and if you ran into any higher up players like that in a random server they would slaughter you. There are online tournaments as well as standard tournaments if you look for it, and I guarantee that tournament goers will always fair better than non-tournament goers.

Tournament rules are not "strange version of smash bros", they are the competitive standards for any legitamate tournament. They are tried and true, and it is the only way to prove who is best currently. There aren't any other smash scenes that compete with the smashboards, and there aren't any of these hypothetical underground players who can somehow beat our best players.

Except Jump Super Stars there are nearly no fighting games you could compare SSB with.
My statement was abstract, anyway. I was talking about luck. You can also bring up World War II when you´re talking about kangaroos if it helps to explain sth. That doesn´t mean you actually compare them!

Actually there are a lot of things comparible with smash and traditional fighters. I don't see how anyone could argue that. While Jump Super Stars is more comparible to smash, it doesn't have a real tournament scene in the US, so it's not like you can use that as a debate against the arguments of the tournament scene.

I don´t expect you to change. I don´t care. I didn´t start to think about this game like I do now on the first day, either.
Well there are two things I learned about you very quickly. Your lack of openness of mind and your self-aggrandizement.

There is a difference between being open minded and being dumb. It would be dumb for me to accept your views knowing full well you don't know what you are talking about on the subject. I HAVE changed my opinions due to people presenting a good and valid argument. Case in point, ther was a thread about controller types and how MLG has a ban on wireless controllers in general. My opinion changed drastically after a handful of smart people presented counter points to my own.

The fact that you even say stuff like "I don't expect you to change" is like a way to present that you yourself are open minded. This is very much not true, because it's apparent that you haven't bothered reading up on the scene and re-evaluating your original opinion on it in any way. If you really were adamant against the competitive scene AFTER brushing up on how things really are, and logically debated with me, I would respect your opinion on things and this would be a decent debate. The fact is that you haven't, and your opinion is based on crap that isn't even true.

Also, self-aggrandizement? Come on now, it's obvious that the word is outside the vernacular, and seemingly outside your vocabulary based on what you have said so far. Also, I don't post against people like you to further my e-peen, and honestly I am not a fan of people who simply post "Mookie rules!" and leaves the thread. I "appreciate" it but i don't condone it, that is why I usually don't even address people when they say stuff like that.

You´re comparing apples and oranges.... or vegetables and the entirety of items.

You were discussing the lack of items in competitive play, and I showed you a great example of how they are actually used IN competitive play. To throw that asside and say it's "apples and oranges" is ridiculous, because the fundamental dynamics to all items are the same, the limitations of your moveset with an item is the same. You fail to even recognize this, and because of that you have no reason to be criticising the tournament scene.

 

[Tony_]

Well, we've always got create-a-stage, lol..

[caps]YES! SOMEONE GOT WHAT I WAS SAYING. YES.[/caps]

 

[The Director]

When I found out about certain levels being banned, that's when I felt like the game was being stripped down a bit.

Same here. I can understand some stages being banned, but it got to the point where Corneria and PKMN Stadium were banned. Seriously? Corneria? WTF tourny people? Who cares if your opponent hides on the bottom part of the level, if he does just GO KICK HIS ***!!

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Same here. I can understand some stages being banned, but it got to the point where Corneria and PKMN Stadium were banned. Seriously? Corneria? WTF tourny people? Who cares if your opponent hides on the bottom part of the level, if he does just GO KICK HIS ***!!

Pokemon Stadium is on random select, and Corneria is a counterpick (aka legal) stage.

 

[EDreams]

Wow, Pokemon Stadium?

Have you even watched a tourney video?

 

[thesage]

Who cares if your opponent hides on the bottom part of the level, if he does just GO KICK HIS ***!!

*cough* http://youtube.com/watch?v=daoLcPGxeyA *cough*


And it's still not banned. One of my favorite counterpick stages with Ness

I hope you were being sarcastic (especially at the pokemon stadium comment).

 

[Xanderous]

Same here. I can understand some stages being banned, but it got to the point where Corneria and PKMN Stadium were banned. Seriously? Corneria? WTF tourny people? Who cares if your opponent hides on the bottom part of the level, if he does just GO KICK HIS ***!!

Neither of those stages are banned. You really don't know anything about this, do you?

 

[MookieRah]

Neither of those stages are banned. You really don't know anything about this, do you?

Most people don't, they only hear stuff other people have told them. Seriously, you guys need to read up on stuff an learn about the scene. It's a lot more accepting than you guys think.

 

[Teh Popo]

It means he's disproved your arguments with infallible (IMO) evidence.

The thing is, I didn't even present arguments, I simply stated my opinions. I said that it felt like TO ME that the tournament rules might be going too far, not that the tournament rules were actually wrong or imbalanced. If anything, these trolls are "owning" and "******" this whole message board, not just my thread.

edit: I don't mean MookieRah, he wasn't all "lolol u got owned lolololol"

 

[DraginHikari]

I can only speak for myself on this point, but I think it also applies to Sliq, and maybe Mookie and Buzz as well:
I need something to do at work when I'm stuck in front of a computer screen, bored out of my mind.
Also, (this one's probably just me) I totally get off on internet conflict ^_^

Heh, why did I get the feeling the response what going to be exactly that.

Then again alot of these will probably disappear to extent when Brawl hits anyway... I just don't really see the point of aruging with people that are too stubborn to change their view just like in the last dozen similar topics like this.

 

[Pulse]

Just something I wanted to pop up: I'm tired of people saying things like "If you don't like the main tourney rules, host your own tourney!" Not everyone has the space or money to do that. Stop using it as a Cure-All. Sometimes they really have decent ideas. Besides, this game isn't Melee 2.0. We still don't know much about the game (and with the rare exception of E4All goers, haven't even played the game.)

 

[Gerbil]

Just something I wanted to pop up: I'm tired of people saying things like "If you don't like the main tourney rules, host your own tourney!" Not everyone has the space or money to do that. Stop using it as a Cure-All. Sometimes they really have decent ideas. Besides, this game isn't Melee 2.0. We still don't know much about the game (and with the rare exception of E4All goers, haven't even played the game.)

You think we do have the space and money? Let's be serious for a moment. I've been at this for nearly two years (which is a short time in comparison to others here at SWF). In those two years I've been to tournies as large as INNV where it was held in a hotel, and then there have been tournaments where we were stuck in some dudes basement or living room (Smash Aid VII bi-weeklies). Finding space isn't hard even if you want it outside your home. You simply say "Hey, we want a tourny here. We'll charge a door fee and you guys get the door fee." Just so you know, most tourny hosts don't hold tournies to make a profit for themselves. Some tournies do, but 90% of the ones I've been to do not take a cut. It doesn't cost us a **** thing to hold a tournament unless we want to add extras in there (such as providing food/drinks on our own: a note, the G4S series (my series) uses a LAN center, and we let them sell the food to the players)

So you know what I'm tired of? Is people coming to these boards, a competitive Smash player board, and then gripe about rule sets. This is COMPETITIVE play on a LARGE level. I'll jump on the bandwagon and say "IF you don't like it, then don't enter!" Screw hosting your own tournaments, just don't enter ours and everything will be alright.

Personally I'd rather the noobs just stfu, take a few days to read the plethora of information we have here at SWF, accept our reasoning or even be understanding (I hate that Onett is banned, but hey wtf I'm a Fox player so of course I would lol). Don't come here and complain about it, because you're with the wrong crowd.

It's actually a good thing this particular thread is in General Brawl because not too many people with competitive experience come here, knowing that it's overran with potential Brawlers (not Melee players) and Noobs. (Unless you're IHSB, who gets off to this sort of thing lol) Otherwise, there'd be a lot more hate coming down in this thread.

Shouts to Mookie as well (Atlantic South rocks XD)

 

[Teh Popo]

You think we do have the space and money? Let's be serious for a moment. I've been at this for nearly two years (which is a short time in comparison to others here at SWF). In those two years I've been to tournies as large as INNV where it was held in a hotel, and then there have been tournaments where we were stuck in some dudes basement or living room (Smash Aid VII bi-weeklies). Finding space isn't hard even if you want it outside your home. You simply say "Hey, we want a tourny here. We'll charge a door fee and you guys get the door fee." Just so you know, most tourny hosts don't hold tournies to make a profit for themselves. Some tournies do, but 90% of the ones I've been to do not take a cut. It doesn't cost us a **** thing to hold a tournament unless we want to add extras in there (such as providing food/drinks on our own: a note, the G4S series (my series) uses a LAN center, and we let them sell the food to the players)

So you know what I'm tired of? Is people coming to these boards, a competitive Smash player board, and then gripe about rule sets. This is COMPETITIVE play on a LARGE level. I'll jump on the bandwagon and say "IF you don't like it, then don't enter!" Screw hosting your own tournaments, just don't enter ours and everything will be alright.

Personally I'd rather the noobs just stfu, take a few days to read the plethora of information we have here at SWF, accept our reasoning or even be understanding (I hate that Onett is banned, but hey wtf I'm a Fox player so of course I would lol). Don't come here and complain about it, because you're with the wrong crowd.

It's actually a good thing this particular thread is in General Brawl because not too many people with competitive experience come here, knowing that it's overran with potential Brawlers (not Melee players) and Noobs. (Unless you're IHSB, who gets off to this sort of thing lol) Otherwise, there'd be a lot more hate coming down in this thread.

Shouts to Mookie as well (Atlantic South rocks XD)

This is exactly what makes tournament players look like arrogant elitists. It's one thing if you simply explain that your rules are more balanced, but you insult anyone who's ever played with items on even once, practically. Did it ever occur to you that there might be really skilled players out there that happen to prefer playing with items on? Heck, I hear even the pros like to play item matches on banned levels between rounds just for fun sometimes, so I guess they're casual n00bs too, huh?

 

[evilflame101]

First off, I'm not a troll.

I've only played in 1 tournament for SSBM, but I've always adhered to tournament rules. I was never that big a fan of items, because they'd either be pathetically weak, or severely overpowered and unbalanced, compared to a similar game like Power Stone where most items are fairly balanced. I did like a few items though, like the Warp Star because it felt cool, and the Star Rod is pretty fun, and a few other fun items like Flippers, Bumpers, and sometimes the Barrel Cannon.

When I found out about certain levels being banned, that's when I felt like the game was being stripped down a bit. I didn't care that much about some of them, but levels like Big Blue and Mushroom Kingdom 1 were some of my favorites.

Regardless, I stuck to the tournament rules because my very favorite level, Poke Floats, and another level I really like, Rainbow Cruise, are legal. I just really like wacky levels, it takes some skill to adapt to them, and breaks up the monotony. I do like Final Destination for really intense matches, though; it's so dramatic how it's just you and your opponent, nothing more, nothing less, and the background is cool looking. Battlefield kinda bores me, but that's
neither here nor there.

Seeing the updates for Brawl, however, I find that almost all of the new items look fun and most of 'em not too overpowered, and really hope the Warioware and Pictochat stages do not get banned, but it seems like New Pork City will get banned for sure; it's as big as the temple AND can one-hit ko people as part of a level feature, and Norfair will likely get banned, even though it seems to add a fun "King of the Hill" style of gameplay, and it seems like it could go either way with The Summit. Heck, even Skyworld might get the axe, and so help me God, I will be done with tournament rules forever if Shadow Moses gets banned.

What feels close to crossing the line for me is that a CHARACTER might be unplayable in tournaments. That might be the last straw for me. I agreed with items being removed because of the exploding containers, I begrudgingly agreed with levels being banned, I have no complaints with Wavedashing and other advanced techniques, but a character?

It feels like the fine line between making a game balanced and gutting everything is about to be crossed. I mean, hell, it's bad enough that a character might not even be usable, but Final Smashes will likely be unusable too, and I was excited that Brawl would have them, before I realized the Final Smash thingies would be items.

Heck, I'm beginning to see why they compare the tournament rules to removing Weapons from Halo 3; perhaps some items or levels might be unfair in some circumstances, but is it really worth stripping out the soul of a game to make things "fair"? I mean, couldn't we have just let some stages be choose able if neither player was using a character that could take advantage of a level's design, ie. Bowser vs. Bowser on Hyrule Temple?

Seriously, sometimes it feels like the people who decide the rules are like parents that want the best for their kids, but are a little too overprotective and a little too strict.

i see what you mean but some levels, are just too easy to die on, and when you are betting money, you dont want to be killed by the stage, you want to be killed by the player, or at leaset they can try.

Also items can be too random, mainly because of the exploding boxes, if you cna turn them off in brawl we might see some item play come back. i really dont care either way, except i want smash balls in cause they are a big part of the game.

anyway final destination, though it can be a fun match, it is not ballenced, IMO pokemon stadium 1 is the most balanced, 2 platforms over baiscally final-d the changes are not too bad either, but in brawl, the animal crossing stage is defiantally one of the most balanced.

i think a stang with a long stage, like final destination, then with 2 small stages, are the most idea stages, i dont really care for tourney rules, but i can see why they use them, and i agree with most of that.

 

[SacredX]

After reading MookieRah's post, it's been confirmed.

Keep in mind, Nintendo doesn't care about tourney players, but their more casual players. This is why the stages, smash balls, assist trophey's, etc, just able all go against tourney rules. Of course I don't think they created these for the sole purpose of ruining tourneys, but they aren't going to let that effect how they make the game.

It would have been nice if items were set on Very Low to say the least, especially since people should know in any decent game, people need to use their surroundings for them, and be prepared for them to be used against them. The element of surprize is also something to consider, but also any good player would know how to handle such situations and avoid any, or at leasy, any major catastrophies.

But this strict thing on "everything needing to be 100% even" does suck since it takes out a lot of fun from the game. It also sucks because the tournaments that hold these rules are often extremely popular, so much that "going out and making your own" wouldn't attract as much attention.

Basically, anyone who bans stages, items, or characters and still insists on playing the game doesn't know what the game is all about and more obviously, they're playing for the wrong reasons.

 

[Deleted member]

This is exactly what makes tournament players look like arrogant elitists. It's one thing if you simply explain that your rules are more balanced, but you insult anyone who's ever played with items on even once, practically. Did it ever occur to you that there might be really skilled players out there that happen to prefer playing with items on? Heck, I hear even the pros like to play item matches on banned levels between rounds just for fun sometimes, so I guess they're casual n00bs too, huh?

He didnt insult items players. He is right, uve only been to one tournament, u dont know much about the smash scene. PLaying with items when not in tournaments i perfectly normal, but for tournaments, we want a fair experience. Kthxbai.

 

[P.E]

I call you casual cause everything you said was in support to everyone else who claimed themselves as being casual. You may be competitive within your ruleset; however, you complain about the tournament scene in which you actually don't have a very good understanding about.

The term casual has actually two meanings. One means more or less the same like "sometime/once in a while" and the other meaning is "careless". I neither play it once in a while nor am I careless. The new kind of gamer Nintendo is trying reach is called casual cause he/plays casual games like Nintendogs or Wii Sports and doesn´t play much.

You were discussing the lack of items in competitive play, and I showed you a great example of how they are actually used IN competitive play. To throw that asside and say it's "apples and oranges" is ridiculous, because the fundamental dynamics to all items are the same, the limitations of your moveset with an item is the same. You fail to even recognize this, and because of that you have no reason to be criticising the tournament scene.

I´m seriously worried about you. How can sb be that dumb? They are not all the same. Some force you to attack the opponent, some give you special abilities like very high jumps... it´s so much variety a strategic use is necessary if you wanna be successful. You could say an item is a temporary special attack. Take away Links bombs and boomerang and fighting as him would be less strategic.

I´m getting tired of reading so much nonsense so I´m gonna make a few final statements.

-I never requested someone to change how he playes. I´m just saying that there is another way to play which makes more fun and demands more skills though includes randomness to a certain extent. If you can´t live with any kind of randomness in tourneys - fine. I recommend brand new controllers after each game and everyone should get the same amount of sleep. (For all the actual ******* out there: the last sentence was a joke)

-Items can solve problems like the whole "defensive vs offensive player"-issue
For example: if a Ness-Player hides in the bottom left corner of Corneria (huh, these words seem to relate to each other), send him some pokemons or get a star

-I don´t think your friend would "slaughter" me in Call of Duty. Never played in tourneys but I am (or was) pretty good at this game. If I beat a tourney player, could I call myself competitive? LOL (BTW I did)
... I guess not, cause you´re so good at everthing you actually define words. Hail Mookie!
(This last sentence is dedicated to everybody who says stuff like "Mookie owned/***** the thread")

 

[GaryCXJk]

Okay, guys, I'm writing this in a "slightly" larger font, so that people actually notice this, and so that people actually bother to read. And with people, I mean the ones who simply say "tourney rules are for ***gots".

So, let's stop with looking at Smash and look at another competitive play: football. Or, as you yanks call it, soccer. So in football, there's a rule that is called offside. Before a certain time period, this rule never existed. However, FIFA started to realize that there had to be a rule to limit the amounts of goals. So, they came up with several rules and restriction, one which is offside.

Basically, without this rule you could take advantage of your and your opponent's position. With the offside rule, people started to make less goals.

My point here is that people shouldn't ***** about the tournament rules. In your free time, you can just play street football, and not have these "***gotry rules". There are no sidelines, so that you could continue playing the game without interruptions. You can set your own rules.

And that is what Smash is all about. Setting your own rules. Nobody tells you to turn off items, ban certain stages and what not. It's YOUR game.

And you've just lost the game.

 

[Egret]

It would have been nice if items were set on Very Low to say the least, especially since people should know in any decent game, people need to use their surroundings for them, and be prepared for them to be used against them. The element of surprize is also something to consider, but also any good player would know how to handle such situations and avoid any, or at leasy, any major catastrophies.

Being hit by an exploding crate that spawned in front of your attack would often be a "major catastrophe" and is unavoidable because they spawn randomly.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

post

You get cookies for using Soccer as an example.

<<<<<Luvs soccer.

Anyways, if you don't like tournament rules, don't play in tournaments. Or use the rules at all.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

First off, I'm not a troll.

Then don't make a topic like this and people will not get that impression.

The "casual versus competitive" card has been played way too many times around here. It's about high time people stop *****ing about either side of the community. Play the game however you want. Nobody's going to stop you.

Now mods, do your **** job and close this thread.

Smooth Criminal

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

The term casual has actually two meanings. One means more or less the same like "sometime/once in a while" and the other meaning is "careless". I neither play it once in a while nor am I careless. The new kind of gamer Nintendo is trying reach is called casual cause he/plays casual games like Nintendogs or Wii Sports and doesn´t play much.

No. "Casual" here refers to a mindset. It does not matter if someone smashes 80 hours per week and takes each match seriously. Casual players do not maintain the same intensity as competitive players do. Casual players have a limit to how much they want to learn. If a new tactic is within their grasp, sure, they'll learn it. But once something proves too complicated (oftentimes newbies hit a wall with SHFFLs and wavedash combos), they revert to "playing for fun". They refuse to put in the time/work to overcome these obstacles. They believe tactics X, Y, and Z are "cheap" and are not part of core play.

I´m seriously worried about you. How can sb be that dumb? They are not all the same. Some force you to attack the opponent, some give you special abilities like very high jumps... it´s so much variety a strategic use is necessary if you wanna be successful. You could say an item is a temporary special attack. Take away Links bombs and boomerang and fighting as him would be less strategic.

Most items restrict you in the same way in that you have to throw or drop them before going back to using normal moves. Besides, not many would argue that items off no depth. It does take skill to use items, but the game is better on a competitive level without them. There are years of experience of a whole community working against you. Why do you believe that you know better than a group of people who have been around much longer than you?

I´m getting tired of reading so much nonsense so I´m gonna make a few final statements.

-I never requested someone to change how he playes. I´m just saying that there is another way to play which makes more fun and demands more skills though includes randomness to a certain extent. If you can´t live with any kind of randomness in tourneys - fine. I recommend brand new controllers after each game and everyone should get the same amount of sleep. (For all the actual ******* out there: the last sentence was a joke)

Even though you were joking, your last bit does not refer to random elements. All of those are controllable elements. There is nothing random about controllers getting old and players competing on 2 hours of sleep. The issue is not that we cannot live with random elements. Competitive smash does contain several random elements, but randomness that randomly KOs or gives a blatant advantage to the opponent is unacceptable. Imagine playing chess and having your Queen spontaneously combust midway through the game. According to your logic, the player should learn to tolerate randomness.

-Items can solve problems like the whole "defensive vs offensive player"-issue
For example: if a Ness-Player hides in the bottom left corner of Corneria (huh, these words seem to relate to each other), send him some pokemons or get a star

What is this issue you speak of? This makes no sense. Offensive and defensive play styles are completely acceptable. Are you referring to camping?

-I don´t think your friend would "slaughter" me in Call of Duty. Never played in tourneys but I am (or was) pretty good at this game. If I beat a tourney player, could I call myself competitive? LOL (BTW I did)
... I guess not, cause you´re so good at everthing you actually define words. Hail Mookie!
(This last sentence is dedicated to everybody who says stuff like "Mookie owned/***** the thread")

Hm... Well, Mookie has been around way longer than you have. We both have utterly ***** smashers who carry your attitude. The fact remains that you know nothing about what you are talking about.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

In response to the thread title:

"I'm starting to dislike casual v. tourney player arguments"

Ugh. Stop arguing people. Lets all just smoke a toke and get along...plz?

Thx.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'll take a page from your book, Buzz:

Buzz wins.

DOUBLE FLAWLESS.

FATALITY.

Smooth Criminal

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

<3 Mortal Kombat

 

[Pink Reaper]

After reading MookieRah's post, it's been confirmed.

Keep in mind, Nintendo doesn't care about tourney players, but their more casual players. This is why the stages, smash balls, assist trophy's, etc, just able all go against tourney rules. Of course I don't think they created these for the sole purpose of ruining tourneys, but they aren't going to let that effect how they make the game.

It would have been nice if items were set on Very Low to say the least, especially since people should know in any decent game, people need to use their surroundings for them, and be prepared for them to be used against them. The element of surprise is also something to consider, but also any good player would know how to handle such situations and avoid any, or at least, any major catastrophes.

But this strict thing on "everything needing to be 100% even" does suck since it takes out a lot of fun from the game. It also sucks because the tournaments that hold these rules are often extremely popular, so much that "going out and making your own" wouldn't attract as much attention.

Basically, anyone who bans stages, items, or characters and still insists on playing the game doesn't know what the game is all about and more obviously, they're playing for the wrong reasons.

Ok, its been said alot in this tread but obviously you haven't read most of it so Im just going to say it again. Tournaments aren't played for fun, they are played for MONEY. You know, money, cash, skrilla, stacks, paper? That stuff that makes the world go round? Thats why everything needs to be 100% even, because there's peoples hard earned money on the line. If you're playing frendlies then obviously no, it doesn't matter what the rules are, you can play 12 stock, items on very hight, Temple free for alls if you want, but when it comes down to it competitive play HAS to have that fariness, because you're actually playing for something. I think it was Buzz who said "Tournaments are played for money, not for fun"(Or something along those lines)

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Even if money is not involved, there is still prestige and respect gained from proving you are the best in an even playing field, but yes, tournaments are not designed to be fun. Fun is a natural side effect for those (like myself) who love competition. When deciding the rules, never does anyone say, "Let's add this rule just because it's fun." In the long run, such rules actually decrease fun as those who come for strict competition find themselves at the mercy of this "fun".

 

[Micahc]

Sweet freaking Jesus can someone lock this thread and ban all the scrubs? This is a competative forum that so far has the image of a Gamefaqs forum. It makes me cry. Stupid scrubs.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Then don't make a topic like this and people will not get that impression.

The "casual versus competitive" card has been played way too many times around here. It's about high time people stop *****ing about either side of the community. Play the game however you want. Nobody's going to stop you.

Now mods, do your **** job and close this thread.

Smooth Criminal

I'm pretty sure you didn't even bother to read the first post, but it's not like you're missing much anyway.

Sweet freaking Jesus can someone lock this thread and ban all the scrubs? This is a competative forum that so far has the image of a Gamefaqs forum. It makes me cry. Stupid scrubs.

Brawl forum = new game = new players = uninformed

 

[Micahc]

I'm pretty sure you didn't even bother to read the first post, but it's not like you're missing much anyway.



Brawl forum = new game = new players = uninformed

But why did we happen to get stupid people that refuse to inform themselves? It would be nice if scrubs found out why items/stages are banned before *****ing about it.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'm pretty sure you didn't even bother to read the first post, but it's not like you're missing much anyway.

I DID read the first post.

Strip away all of the fanciful bull**** and you'll find that this IS yet another attempt at a "casual versus competitive" argument. It doesn't matter whether the OP is a disillusioned soul who feels that the heart of the game is being ripped out in the interest of fairness, it's still the same god**** thing: Tourney rulings suck and I'm going to complain about them. People need to understand that some tournament-based rulings are in place for good reason and are aimed specifically FOR THAT CROWD AND NOBODY ELSE.

Smooth Criminal

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Just once, I'd like to see a multi-year tournament veteran come in and state how much he hates tournament rules.

 

[flyinfilipino]

All it really takes is one informed person to step in and do the informing, not a whole mob of defensive "OMG scrub ****ing lock this thread ooo so-and-so ***** YOU" folks coming in with such attitudes that will surely keep the stubborn newbies busy. Just for future reference, it doesn't take all that much to stop these threads from becoming a nuisance.

 

[Micahc]

All it really takes is one informed person to step in and do the informing, not a whole mob of defensive "OMG scrub ****ing lock this thread ooo so-and-so ***** YOU" folks coming in with such attitudes that will surely keep the stubborn newbies busy. Just for future reference, it doesn't take all that much to stop these threads from becoming a nuisance.

Well when you stop these threads from becoming a nuisance, I'll notice.

 

[flyinfilipino]

New people will want to talk about stuff they think is an issue, if it doesn't really affect you, you don't really need to let it get to you...you know?

 

[Gerbil]

This is exactly what makes tournament players look like arrogant elitists. It's one thing if you simply explain that your rules are more balanced, but you insult anyone who's ever played with items on even once, practically. Did it ever occur to you that there might be really skilled players out there that happen to prefer playing with items on? Heck, I hear even the pros like to play item matches on banned levels between rounds just for fun sometimes, so I guess they're casual n00bs too, huh?

I'm by no means an "arrogant elitist." You say we should explain these things? How about you read through the pages of this thread AGAIN and realize that people DID try to explain, and that YOU are the one not grasping it. Hell we have so many guides on SWF, I'm STILL reading them. They explain everything, how could you ask for more?

I never insulted anyone, and I never intended to. You'd find that if you got to know who I am, that I'm one of the nicer, more joking guys of the Atlantic South. Instead you assumed based off my post that I am automatically some "arrogant elitist." I represent myself, and my views only. I am not a representation of the entire community of SWF so don't take it like that. Sit back and think about it for a moment.

Did it ever occur to you that I might be one of those guys who enjoy Smash with items and banned stages? No cause you don't know a **** thing about me. I never owned this game or a GC, I picked it up competitively from the start. So what does that make me?

If you want to call the pros "casual noobs" when they play with items, that's your term not mine. I call it "relaxing after a days work of Wooping ***."

Get real here people.

 

[WIND SMASHER X]

I think what he is trying to say is that the best of the best will only be known from major tournies that use standard rules. He believes that this is unfair because people like him who want to be the best are forced to play by someone else's rules. You are forced to follow someone else's rules other than your own in his case and that may be a letdown. Imagine if you will that everyone is used to the standard rules the way they are now. Now lets say there are no famous Smashers any more. Now pretend the only way to be known as the best or even good is to win a tourney with these rules.

items on very high
any stage avaliable
coin match
time 2:00
No advanced techs(L cancel,WD etc)
A ruleset like that is way out there right. And yes it does have its obvious flaws. Now if up to this point you had been playing by the normal standard and had this thrown at you what then? Wouldn't it infuriate you that all your time learning techs and rules and mindgames was all wasted. And yes you could just host your own tourney, but what if this new way became the standard for example and no one cared whatsoever for your tourney? It would suck right. Thats probaly how some people feel since its the only way they can be known as a top smasher and they are forced to drop everything they've learned and are forced to play another way to be known as good. This maybe a point he is trying to get across or not, but its something to think about.

btw two things

1. I'm actually neutral here until the set of rules come out for Brawl.
2. Please stop sucking Mookie's E peen. He makes valid points and is a nice guy and good debator but he doesn't need you guys groveling at his feet.

Just thought I would repost this, food for thought.

I would also like to add that with a new game comes new players. And it will be quite a large jump for some if no items are allowed at all. People have to remember that Brawl is aimed at a wider audience than melee was. And new people on the tourney scene may find things a little daunting at first. IMO items will be tested well and we will see honest results and I do agree that some items are broken. And about the exploding crate thing, I understand these being the reason items are banned in the end. Especially with money on the line, but I feel with them being marked this time its eaiser to stay away from. And I personally have never had a random Bob omb or crate fall in front of me while I'm doing an F-smash and I've done tons of gimmick matches with 3 of my friends. We set items very high, 2.0 damage ratio, and only Bombs and this has never happened. Although it is a random luck factor and randomness can change a match, I think some items should be allowed, at least on very low. But alas the community will decide when Brawl comes out.