I'm starting to dislike tournament rules.

[Xanderous]

Stage hazards aren't what get a stage banned, kids.

 

[Idfection]

So I heard banning maps for things skilled players can't play around aren't really good.

You might as well ban Brawl altogether. All stages are going to have some sort of hazard this time around.

Well, we've always got create-a-stage, lol.

And I wish I could stop hearing the arguement that 'tourny' players ban stuff they can't use themselves. Man, I thought this stuff was common since...

 

[WastingPenguins]

...then don't play with them? Seriously, why the hell do people make these threads? If you don't like a style of play, don't play with it, play ****ing Coin Battle if that's what floats your boat.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Stage hazards aren't what get a stage banned, kids.

Not entirely, but lets take Icicle Mountain for example:

Infinite Glacier - Icicle Mountain (banned ~ 2004)
Inherent Flaw(s): Random stage movement.
Reason(s): At certain moments there exist highly unfair positional advantages for the defensive player and at other moments there exist unforeseen advantages for the offensive player.
Broken Tactic: None - simply that one player is rewarded for a position they may have never worked to attain because the offensive players hand is eventually forced by the stages rotation (the alternative to not fighting is either taking an even worse position or committing suicide). In addition to this, sometimes a player’s weak combo, is aided randomly by the stages movement, unpredicted by both the offensive and defensive player.

Now, I consider that "Stage Movement" a hazard, and for competitive play, it is a flaw, of course. But, the obstacle changes how the flow of the game goes, and therefore becomes disruptive.
I would say, that, in GENERAL, stage hazards lead to unfair advantages at some point or another, and those advantages are what get stages banned.

-DD

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'm starting to dislike people who dislike tournament rules.

 

[tutata]

Banning characters would be the last straw....... i have a feeling though that items are gonna have a comeback though, after all, it seems more items are gonna be balanced this time...

i don't see anything wrong with smash balls though

Ha this is one of the funniest things ive heard. Ya for balance why dont you try a golden hammer wooping your but?

 

[MookieRah]

When I left this thread last night things seemed to be doing alright. The debating with casual players had reached a head, and while we didn't all agree we at least some of them realized some stuff that they didn't think of before.

It's such a sad thing when a good debate is highjacked by an incredibly ignorant scrub who thinks that if items were in the game he'd stand some kind of chance on the competitive level.

I can imagine many of you being killed by this little mouse-pokemon and breaking into a passion of tears.I can imagine many of you being killed by this little mouse-pokemon and breaking into a passion of tears.

We have well documented cases of randomly spawned capsules an crates disrupting a match. Just because you don't remember it happening to you, it has. If it hasn't it was probably because you were too busy running away throwing items at CPUs thinking you were the baddest melee player of all time.

Wow, you´re spending so much money on tournaments? Well, I would be very angry but I wouldn´t blame the other player. I also would be angry if I lost to someone who didn´t know how to avoid the lava in the Metroid-Stage or the Airwings but it didn´t matter cause those stages had been banned.

This further shows both your ignorance and lack of understanding. The big tournaments are multi-day events that typically cost a set fee for housing, food, and the various tournaments. FC3 and 6 (sadly I wasn't at Diamond :-() costed about $75 for the entire 3 days. There were hundreds of people there, so you should be able to see how that would generate a cash prize in the thousands.

Secondly, both maps that you mentioned, Brinstar and Corneria are not banned in tournament play. Maybe you should... I dunno, actually look into the rules for tournaments before you decide to act like you know everything?

I do! But I can´t stand it if on the one hand someone thinks he´s so good but other hand he fears Pokeballs... I mean come on... it´s kinda pathetic.

LOL, whatever man. We aren't *afraid* of Pokeballs, we are simply aware of how ****ing random they are, and we don't want that randomness affecting the outcome of our matches. I would GLADLY play you with items on any stage just to show you that you are full of **** when you think that we cry when people use items against us.

To me many tourney-players are often really ignorant. They think there are only casuals and pros and the ones playing with items are casual of course. That makes me angry.

We don't assume that. Actually we never really cared or bothered with the casual scene much at all till Brawl was released. Then a whole bunch of IGNORANT ******* like yourself showed up spouting truly IGNORANT nonsense and told us how we took the soul out of the game. You don't seem to realize that the tournament scene started out as 10 stock, best of 1, with items. You fail to TRY to educate yourself on how tournaments are run and claim we are ignorant?

That sir, is the DEFINITION of ignorance.

P.S. I'm not claiming that every casual person that appeared after Brawl was announced is ignorant. I'm simply saying the people like P.E. are ignorant, and trust me, there were A LOT of them.

You´re saying playing with items excludes competitive play, aren´t you? Well, I say banning much of the games content excludes REAL competitive play. Noone thought about banning items in Warcraft 3 though to some degree ther´re random, too.

Warcraft 3 and soccer games are not smash. If you are to compare smash with another game, make it a fighting game. Also, by the competitive standards of most traditional fighters, we are too lax on our rules for tournaments.

No matter what I say, I don´t think you´ll change your opinion. I just want to make clear that someone who plays with items, maybe does it because he thinks it makes it more interesting and more stratetic and that it´s an important part of the game.

Nobody said anything about this. You just made ridiculous assumptions.

That doesn´t mean that he´s not interested in comeptitive play. Maybe he has a diffrent definiton of "competitive".

THIS is the competitive scene. Deal with it. Unlike you we've evolved our way of thinking about this game. It took us 3 years to ban items, it wasn't something we did on the first day. If you have problems with the competitive scene and refuse to change your ways and just absolutely want to be stubborn, why don't you try starting your own tournament with your own set of rules. Don't complain about how we committed atrocities and expect us to bend to your dumb views.

If you stayed true to what you think about competitive play, you would have to ban all characters excepts one so that every player has the exact same change in every battle.

Haha, a very very stark generalization that has no place in this discussion. You can argue what you *think* is true about the scene all you want, but you will never be right.

A competitive smasher without items has to think about more things than a casual player. But a competitive smasher with items has to consider even more because there are more possibilites. Is it so hard to understand?

To be honest, having an item in your hand sorta limits you to an extent. Why do I know this? I play against Peach players! Talk about item kings on the competitive level, because their turnip IS an item. Peach players are fully aware of how items can limit you or help you, and ANY competitive player that is good knows how to work with that in order to secure a win.

So I heard banning maps for things skilled players can't play around aren't really good.

Tony... when will you grow a brain and try to understand things from a different perspective than your own? Seriously, all you do is come into threads, say something incredibly ignorant and instigate a huge fight.

 

[DraginHikari]

I'm starting to dislike threads that go around in the same circle and never fix an issue

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

MookieRah owned yet another thread.

Mookie, I get dibs on the next one.

 

[iMichael]

I'm starting to dislike people who dislike tournament rules.

I'm starting to dislike what Buzz dislikes....therefore I dislike people who dislike tourney rules.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

Smashballs should be in. They move around the stage its not like "LOL BOMB NEXT TO ME LOL".

Characters getting baned = Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad Idea.

 

[Takeshi245]

MookieRah owned yet another thread.

Mookie, I get dibs on the next one.

I'm sure you will, Buzz, make a post that MookieRah would say, but just in different wording. That is what long lost brothers do after all, don't you think?

 

[MookieRah]

I'm starting to dislike threads that go around in the same circle and never fix an issue

I blame the ignorant people that don't actually read the thread, nor learn about the community.

Mookie, I get dibs on the next one.

Good **** mangz, I was about to head out to a friends place soon anyways.

I'm sure you will, Buzz, make a post that MookieRah would say, but just in different wording. That is what long lost brothers do after all, don't you think?

I was afraid to work towards any sort of article/thing to toss at Youko or SamuraiPanda for Show Me Your News till after I listened to Buzz's episode out of fear that it would be like the same guest speak two times. Seriously though, the only thing I could really bring up on the roundtable is issues like this referring to the competitive scene. I haven't listened to a lot of the earlier episodes, so I don't know how much has been discussed on this issue, but seeing how lame the updates have been lately it could probably fly now.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I'm starting to dislike what Buzz dislikes....therefore I dislike people who dislike tourney rules.

I dislike you.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Let's all storm the NBA offices and demand they repeal the three-in-the-key rule for basketball games. They don't know jack about TRUE SKILL.

 

[iMichael]

I dislike you.

lol ok I don't care....

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

MookieRah basically said it all in his massive post. The biggest problem still remains that players who oppose tournament rulings refuse to educate themselves about the history of the community. Even so, they refuse to educate themselves about how the game is played right now. I am tired of everyone assuming that competitive smashers have this obsession with Final Destination and Fox, so, let me just clear that up right now.

I hate Final Destination. It is literally my least favorite stage. I play Young Link and Captain Falcon. My play style thrives on platforms. Whenever possible, I ban Final Destination when given the option to knock a stage out of my set (a typical tournament rule). Second, I do not like playing Fox. He is too fast for my tastes, and I just have more fun with other characters. The general public likes to pass this rumor around that competitive players depend on Fox and Final Destination, and that is what everyone believes.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

lol ok I don't care....

Wait, I misunderstood you..... I actually like you

 

[iMichael]

MookieRah basically said it all in his massive post. The biggest problem still remains that players who oppose tournament rulings refuse to educate themselves about the history of the community. Even so, they refuse to educate themselves about how the game is played right now. I am tired of everyone assuming that competitive smashers have this obsession with Final Destination and Fox, so, let me just clear that up right now.

I hate Final Destination. It is literally my least favorite stage. I play Young Link and Captain Falcon. My play style thrives on platforms. Whenever possible, I ban Final Destination when given the option to knock a stage out of my set (a typical tournament rule). Second, I do not like playing Fox. He is too fast for my tastes, and I just have more fun with other characters. The general public likes to pass this rumor around that competitive players depend on Fox and Final Destination, and that is what everyone believes.

Thx you Buzz...Thx you.

I play Mario and I love me some platforms too. Easy to combo =D....I hate when people think it's all about Fox. Although I do pick FD for Mario's Upair blinds, but other then that FD is gay and I to ban it sometimes. I usually choose Yoshi's Story so I can **** and pull of Mario's upB to walljump to upB again...and the cloud is cool =D

 

[SSBBRAWLIN]

I'm pretty sure there are reasonable explanations for that.

First off, the levels:
There are hazards on almost every level in the game right? Well the ones banned are almost all those exact levels w/hazards. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to lose on levels like those and end up wasting money. But most importantly they were banned to prevent opponents from running away and stalling time to get an easy win (Basically being cheap). Hyrule Temple is a good example for this. So that's it for the levels.

Now it's time for items:
Not much to say here but the fact that anyone can have a great advantage over the other person to get a much easier win (Once again, another way of being cheap). They can overpower the opponent(s) using way too strong items such as Pokeballs, Hammers, Starman, Food, etc. Those kinds will ensure an easy victory w/out having to actually work your way to the top.

Well that's all I have to say, hope this helps.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

The real reason why ZZSamus is going to be banned beacuse whatever Samus lack it seems ZZSamus makes up for that. And thats cheap having 1 character as 2 with those odds, so if ZZSamus not able to be used in tournments is for the best. Plus no items for the FM to transform.

No, ZSSamus doesn't make up for what Samus lacks. She replaces it, basically. Samus LOSES her old statistics and gains new ones when she turns to ZSSamus. She doesn't keep her old moves or anything when she turns to ZSSamus, so I don't think there is a problem.


... The final smashes are meant to be used strategically. God forbid you actually have to do some work to be able to take out your opponent with using the FS! And really... most of the items don't give you THAT much of an advantage. Like the hammer... Yea its powerful... But your opponent is slower and can't do much jumping, so just hop over them. And if someone says something like "well what if your right next to them when they get it, you don't hav time to avoid" or anything like that...well, then its your fault for letting them get to it first! And stuff about using the flipper to edgeguard and such... well, thas pretty much its purpose. Using a flipper to edgeguard or something similar is called... STRATEGY.

 

[DraginHikari]

I blame the ignorant people that don't actually read the thread, nor learn about the community.

Good **** mangz, I was about to head out to a friends place soon anyways.

You say that as if you reasons can stamp out ignorance. Hate to break it to ya but you'll never stamp out that, there are people who pride their whole lives on being ignorant and believe it or not, in society in the US, people get away with alot of things based on ignorance alone. Not really right but it's not going to change.

The biggest issue with this community is how it is currently evolving. Mostly because it seems like beforehand it was a heavily tournment oriented board (Understand this is mostly from what I have noticed in others post). When Brawl was announced however, this board being one of the largest Smash broads out there, started to recieve a an influx of a type of both casual and 'ignorant' casual on top of the competitive which causes quite a stir. A conflict of interest that seems to seam from two fears: Change and the Unknown.

I want to make clear I have no issue with the way competitive players play, the tournment scene, or the tournment rules. What I find obixious is the way both sides deal with this issue of conflict:

1) A ignorant person posts some that objects the competitive in some manner or form

2) A Debating Competitive states solid points and debukes opener

3) Other Casual and Competitive start restating the same points as the first two, eventually leading to a few ignroance statements and insult along the way.

4) Repeat Step 2-3 for about 10-15 more pages

5) Post is finally ignored and disappears under other posts or is locked

Considering I've seen one of these kind of posts at least once a week and they never seem to be any different. My point draws out to both sides:

Casuals: Why do you even care how anyone else plays, that's none of your business. The majority of you will probably not bother with the tournment scene at all and it makes the rest of the casuals look ridculious. Throwing ignorance and slang at Competitive only insgates arugment and is futile? And if your one of those that just thrieve off ticking people off, then just grow up.

Competitive: Why do you have to get defensive everytime someone ignorant tries to derail your method of play? There is no need for 20 some people to derail a openers point and telling people their stupid and ignorant doesn't make you any better then what you're claiming they are (And don't tell me it doesn't happen because it does and even if the Casual start it that's not a reason to do the same).

How else to deal with things like this, here one of the easiest:

Ignore it and it will disappear under other discussions. The point is unless your going to start banning people for being ignorant, you are never going to get rid of it. I'm sorry to go way off topic but I felt it needed to be said

 

[MilesPrower]

MookieRah basically said it all in his massive post. The biggest problem still remains that players who oppose tournament rulings refuse to educate themselves about the history of the community. Even so, they refuse to educate themselves about how the game is played right now. I am tired of everyone assuming that competitive smashers have this obsession with Final Destination and Fox, so, let me just clear that up right now.

I hate Final Destination. It is literally my least favorite stage. I play Young Link and Captain Falcon. My play style thrives on platforms. Whenever possible, I ban Final Destination when given the option to knock a stage out of my set (a typical tournament rule). Second, I do not like playing Fox. He is too fast for my tastes, and I just have more fun with other characters. The general public likes to pass this rumor around that competitive players depend on Fox and Final Destination, and that is what everyone believes.

Please teach me how to play competitive Smash.

lol.


But then I thought of something.

Melee is supposedly different, extremely different in some cases, than Brawl. So it wouldn't do any good for you to teach me right now. Because some of that would go to waste, since it's different than Melee.


Which reminds me of that person's post who said that this is Brawl General Discussion, and not Melee General Discussion.

So how can we discuss Brawl Tournaments/Rules when it's not even released, when we do not even know all the stages, items, characters, and we don't even know how Jigglypuff moves now due to this weird gravity change?


I've read everything allllllllllllllllllll the way up to this point, and although I agreed with the original poster at first, I'm a changed man by like.... 80%.


So when Brawl DOES come out, I'm gonna get my fill of fun on it.... Then I'm gonna start training. Cause like I wanna be good if I go up against good players, and I know I can do it.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Competitive: Why do you have to get defensive everytime someone ignorant tries to derail your method of play? There is no need for 20 some people to derail a openers point and telling people their stupid and ignorant doesn't make you any better then what you're claiming they are (And don't tell me it doesn't happen because it does and even if the Casual start it that's not a reason to do the same).

I can only speak for myself on this point, but I think it also applies to Sliq, and maybe Mookie and Buzz as well:
I need something to do at work when I'm stuck in front of a computer screen, bored out of my mind.
Also, (this one's probably just me) I totally get off on internet conflict ^_^

 

[Teh Popo]

How can I delete a thread? I'm done with it. Between people claiming my topic got "owned" (which doesn't make any ****ing sense and really comes off as trollish behavior,) and rehashed arguments, I don't see the point.

 

[SSBBRAWLIN]

How can I delete a thread? I'm done with it. Between people claiming my topic got "owned" (which doesn't make any ****ing sense and really comes off as trollish behavior,) and rehashed arguments, I don't see the point.

I only answered your question and that's all

 

[MookieRah]

I can only speak for myself on this point, but I think it also applies to Sliq, and maybe Mookie and Buzz as well:
I need something to do at work when I'm stuck in front of a computer screen, bored out of my mind.
Also, (this one's probably just me) I totally get off on internet conflict ^_^

This is true.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

How can I delete a thread? I'm done with it. Between people claiming my topic got "owned" (which doesn't make any ****ing sense and really comes off as trollish behavior,) and rehashed arguments, I don't see the point.

You cannot delete threads here.

 

[shipoffools]

if someone could clear this up..


the only thing i don't understand with tourney rules is the arguement that hypothetically a guy charges his smash then an item spawns and it goes kaboom when hit and youre down a stock as a justification for no items. if you practice as much as you say you do, prefecting your skill, wouldnt you eventually know exactly where items spawn, or spend hours paying attention to where they do spawn for future reference so youre not put in the situation? i understand why pros dont like the randomess that items hold, but the one thing that isnt random is the spawning spots, so i dont see how that can be used as a pro-pro arguement..explain?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

if someone could clear this up..


the only thing i don't understand with tourney rules is the arguement that hypothetically a guy charges his smash then an item spawns and it goes kaboom when hit and youre down a stock as a justification for no items. if you practice as much as you say you do, prefecting your skill, wouldnt you eventually know exactly where items spawn, or spend hours paying attention to where they do spawn for future reference so youre not put in the situation? i understand why pros dont like the randomess that items hold, but the one thing that isnt random is the spawning spots, so i dont see how that can be used as a pro-pro arguement..explain?

Imagine for one moment that I am charging a smash attack to finish my opponent. Being the "item pro" that I am, I know that an item is going to spawn on my location any second now. I have a choice to make: (1) release the smash attack early (thus missing my opponent) and avoiding the spawn point for fear of an explosive or (2) hold the smash attack to its finish in hopes that the spawning item is not an explosive.

This is literally a coin toss. In other words, it is a cheap guessing game. Spawn points are trackable, but items spawn in random order. There is no way of knowing whether the incoming item will kill you or not.

 

[Pink Reaper]

if someone could clear this up..


the only thing i don't understand with tourney rules is the arguement that hypothetically a guy charges his smash then an item spawns and it goes kaboom when hit and youre down a stock as a justification for no items. if you practice as much as you say you do, prefecting your skill, wouldnt you eventually know exactly where items spawn, or spend hours paying attention to where they do spawn for future reference so youre not put in the situation? i understand why pros dont like the randomess that items hold, but the one thing that isnt random is the spawning spots, so i dont see how that can be used as a pro-pro arguement..explain?

No, even the spawning points are random, or rather, an item can spawn as long as there's something for it to land on, so for any given stage, the ENTIRE stage is the spawn point. Also, you have to understand that its not just the spawn points that are random, its the items that spawn there as well. Maybe it will be a Mr. Saturn, maybe it will be a Bob-Bomb that decides you need to die, its just too random to be allowed in a tournament where theres thousands of dollars on the line.

On a side note, as a Kirby player, I hate FD more than anything else in the world

 

[MookieRah]

the only thing i don't understand with tourney rules is the arguement that hypothetically a guy charges his smash then an item spawns and it goes kaboom when hit and youre down a stock as a justification for no items. if you practice as much as you say you do, prefecting your skill, wouldnt you eventually know exactly where items spawn, or spend hours paying attention to where they do spawn for future reference so youre not put in the situation? i understand why pros dont like the randomess that items hold, but the one thing that isnt random is the spawning spots, so i dont see how that can be used as a pro-pro arguement..explain?

The capsules and barrels thing was simply the last straw in the items debate that resulted in the item ban, and to truly be honest it was the midwest that fought against the removal of items for the longest time. Both the east coast and west coast pretty much came to the conclusion that items got in the way prior, but even the Midwest couldn't turn the tide in the opinions of the overall competitive scene, and it was around that time where a few upsets in major tournaments caused the ultimately inevitable ban on items.

So with that said I will address the specific point you wanted to be clarified: It is nigh impossible to ask someone to keep tabs on all the possible item spawn points on the level while simaltaneously engaging another opponent in high level play. ESPECIALLY if you are making an attack of opportunity (like capitalizing on a missed tech, tech chasing to a smash, or ending a combo with a smash. To ask for us to not only include items, but to also keep tabs of the spawn points... that is too much. Things happen blisteringly fast, and the chances of the capsule spawning is generally to slim to alter your course of action, but when it happens it is bs.

I'm not saying this last part to make you feel bad or anything malicious, but until you actually are playing at a high level, and by that I mean you are actively observing all of your opponents actions, baiting your opponent, discovering your opponents habbits and creating circumstances and openings that abuse said habbits, all the while trying to be as unpredictable as you can be to prevent your opponent from tricking you, you simply will not be able to understand fully why some of our rules are in place and why what you are asking is something that is ultimately a detriment to competitive play.

 

[Viral]

Heh yeah, there's really no need for the "lol you got owned!" posts. Sorry if this has said before but I haven't really read much of this thread, so what I say may be a bit off i'm afraid =S.

I fully understand tournament rules and I understand the need to remove elements of luck if matches are meant to be determined by pure skill . Imagine travelling halfway across the country and competing for a large amount of cash only to lose out to someone just because an item landed in the right place.
I understand these rules in tournaments, what annoys me is when people try to enforce these rules outside competitive play and claim it is the only way the game should be played and that everyone else is a n00b/scrub who doesn't deserve any respect. I haven't seen much of that in this thread (mind you i've only read a couple of pages so what do I know) but I often see posts implying that all anti-tourney and casual players are raving idiots with no skill who have no idea what a wavedash is and shouldn't be allowed to play the game. Obviously not all tourneyplayers feel that way, but i'm only talking about the ones that do.

We'll have to see how things go when the game actually comes out. If you don't like tourney rules then hopefully when Brawl out WiFi will give us plenty of of opportunities to play with people who don't mind playing with an element of luck (wacky levels and items).

 

[Pink Reaper]

Heh yeah, there's really no need for the "lol you got owned!" posts. Sorry if this has said before but I haven't really read much of this thread, so what I say may be a bit off i'm afraid =S.

While your post was pretty relevant I think it needs to be pointed out to everyone at this point that if you haven't bothered to read all the posts(or at least most of them Mookie's can get pretty long XD) its probably a better idea to NOT post simply because you may state a point that has already been said or you may end up igniting a flame war by bringing something up that has already been resolved. Nothing against you Viral, I'm just saying.

 

[Banjodorf]

When theres thousands of dollars on the line, I think fairness is something that should really be considered >_>

And whats all this talk about a character being banned, who would be banned? I can see Ike as being unplayable but I cant see any characters as being banned. Also, its fine if you don't like tournament rules, no one is forcing them on you, if you want to play your way, then play your way, just understand that there are quite a few of us that enjoy the tourney rules.



Im just going to say this: Super Spicy Curry, or as I like to call it, The Super Fire Shield Invincibility Ultra Edgeguard Most Broken Item Ever, EVER. Seriously, there are a few items in the game that are just broken. Super SPicy Curry is definately the most broken thing in the game ever and there's a few other overpowered weapons like the cracker launcher(if used correctly it guarantees a kill) I cant really see items as gaining use in tourney's but I can see the smash balls if there's a way to just turn them on without having containers because Final Smashes seem to be very important to the game(even if DK's and Peach's are useless >_>)

I think by "character being banned" theyre refering to Zamus, who will only appear as the result of a final smash.. If items are banned, all of them, the smash ball will be too, which means, no Zamus.

So Samus players, who will have had to master both, would be out of luck.

 

[P.E]

When I left this thread last night things seemed to be doing alright. The debating with casual players had reached a head, and while we didn't all agree we at least some of them realized some stuff that they didn't think of before.

Do you call me casual cause I´m not a lucky US-American who has plenty of tournaments to go to or do you call me casual cause you think I would be bad at SSB? I love playing competitive, playing just for fun is wasted time cause there is no zeal. So am I allowed to call myself competitive or not, Sir?

It's such a sad thing when a good debate is highjacked by an incredibly ignorant scrub who thinks that if items were in the game he'd stand some kind of chance on the competitive level.

So when you´re out of arguments you start insulting people? I guess that´s the America way, yehaa!

We have well documented cases of randomly spawned capsules an crates disrupting a match. Just because you don't remember it happening to you, it has. If it hasn't it was probably because you were too busy running away throwing items at CPUs thinking you were the baddest melee player of all time.

OMG you documented it?
So did it happen on 3rd July 2001 at 5pm? Exploding containers are nothing special, but the ones you can´t react one a very very rare. I don´t know if that´s any different in the NTSC-version, though.

Secondly, both maps that you mentioned, Brinstar and Corneria are not banned in tournament play. Maybe you should... I dunno, actually look into the rules for tournaments before you decide to act like you know everything?

My fault, they´re actually counterpicks. But I read a lot of funny things in a thread about stages like the camera zooming in fourside or the dangerous canon-creature in Peach´s Castle. Why are Peach´s Castle and Venom banned, again?

LOL, whatever man. We aren't *afraid* of Pokeballs, we are simply aware of how ****ing random they are, and we don't want that randomness affecting the outcome of our matches. I would GLADLY play you with items on any stage just to show you that you are full of **** when you think that we cry when people use items against us.

How old are you? BTW I don´t wanna debate on the randomness cause I already did in this thread.

We don't assume that. Actually we never really cared or bothered with the casual scene much at all till Brawl was released. Then a whole bunch of IGNORANT ******* like yourself showed up spouting truly IGNORANT nonsense and told us how we took the soul out of the game. You don't seem to realize that the tournament scene started out as 10 stock, best of 1, with items. You fail to TRY to educate yourself on how tournaments are run and claim we are ignorant?

That sir, is the DEFINITION of ignorance.

Guess what?
-I don´t care about your ****ing tournaments
-I never said you would take out the soul out of the game. The soul of Smash is (in my opinion) to beat the crap out of your opponent.
-Moderators who insult people... mmh nice forum, really nice.

P.S. I'm not claiming that every casual person that appeared after Brawl was announced is ignorant. I'm simply saying the people like P.E. are ignorant, and trust me, there were A LOT of them.

I don´t claim that every American tournament player is ignorant, but A LOT of them are.
A lot of Pros in Call of Duty or Warcraft 3, Mario Strikers or whatever don´t even compete in tournaments due to the internet. So just because you meet somewhere to compete in a strange version of Smash Bros doesn´t mean you´re the best. But since "ingorant" is a synonym for "American" I forgive you... not.

Warcraft 3 and soccer games are not smash. If you are to compare smash with another game, make it a fighting game. Also, by the competitive standards of most traditional fighters, we are too lax on our rules for tournaments.

Except Jump Super Stars there are nearly no fighting games you could compare SSB with.
My statement was abstract, anyway. I was talking about luck. You can also bring up World War II when you´re talking about kangaroos if it helps to explain sth. That doesn´t mean you actually compare them!

THIS is the competitive scene. Deal with it. Unlike you we've evolved our way of thinking about this game. It took us 3 years to ban items, it wasn't something we did on the first day. If you have problems with the competitive scene and refuse to change your ways and just absolutely want to be stubborn, why don't you try starting your own tournament with your own set of rules. Don't complai/n about how we committed atrocities and expect us to bend to your dumb views.

I don´t expect you to change. I don´t care. I didn´t start to think about this game like I do now on the first day, either.

Haha, a very very stark generalization that has no place in this discussion. You can argue what you *think* is true about the scene all you want, but you will never be right.

Well there are two things I learned about you very quickly. Your lack of openness of mind and your self-aggrandizement.

To be honest, having an item in your hand sorta limits you to an extent. Why do I know this? I play against Peach players! Talk about item kings on the competitive level, because their turnip IS an item. Peach players are fully aware of how items can limit you or help you, and ANY competitive player that is good knows how to work with that in order to secure a win.

You´re comparing apples and oranges.... or vegetables and the entirety of items.

 

[Chaosblade77]

"I don't like tournament rules for <insert reason here>"

Don't play in tournaments, then you are happy. I don't see why people are so insistent on forcing other people to play their way, this is why I dislike this particular board, because of threads like this always on the first page. I just wish other more casual players would shut the hell up about the competitive rules and wish that the few competitive elitists would stop saying things that imply their way is better. There is no denying there are trolls from both sides (although I admit the casual players tend to be worse...)

Some people seem to forget that people can have opinions... and peoples opinions on the rules by which the game is played are undoubtedly going to differ from person to person. Just like everyone has a favorite character and favorite stage, everyone is going to have a preferred way to play. Deal with it, they aren't you, they have their own opinions.

I understand why tournaments are played the way they are, and I completely agree with it. But wait! I am a casual player and don't care for playing in tournaments; I am not allowed to agree with tournament rules! I guess I am going to be shot this afternoon for hoping Buzz and Mookie continue to mow down the complaints.

 

[Ojanya]

I think you're missing the point regarding Zero Suit Samus not being playable in tournaments. From impressions so far, the professional Smash scene would much more benefit with Final Smashes being turned off than keeping them on for the sake of a character. If it so turns out that Final Smashes are pretty balanced, then they'll likely be turned on.

And you must remember we're not forcing you to play by "our" rules. If you disagree with Final Smashes being turned off (if they are), then set out and make your own tournament with your own rules. Its not like we're pointing a gun to your head and threatening you to play by our rules or die or anything.

Just my 2 cents.

QFT


gay10chars

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

No, even the spawning points are random, or rather, an item can spawn as long as there's something for it to land on, so for any given stage, the ENTIRE stage is the spawn point. Also, you have to understand that its not just the spawn points that are random, its the items that spawn there as well. Maybe it will be a Mr. Saturn, maybe it will be a Bob-Bomb that decides you need to die, its just too random to be allowed in a tournament where theres thousands of dollars on the line.

On a side note, as a Kirby player, I hate FD more than anything else in the world

People are so misinformed:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=116475

It's the 4th post I think. Yellow crosses are item spawn points.

 

[Teh Popo]

Just out of curiosity, when someone says somebody else "owned" or "*****" a thread, do they mean that the person was just being cool, or that they supposedly "owned" the thread by "owning" the thread creator?

I don't wanna be oversensitive if people are just giving props for MookieRah stating his opinion politely and intelligently, but if they think he's "******" my opinions or something, then I want nothing to do with them.