I'm starting to dislike tournament rules.

[Barbeque]

They should never ban characters, they should only ban whats causing the character to be banned.

 

[Tank McCannon]

Stop complaining about standard tourney rules. Don't like them? Make your own tourney. Really, I respect all ideas for tourneys including yours, so why not just make your own? I'd probably attend any kind of Melee tourney if it was in my area, just because Melee can be fun no matter how you play it.

Seriously, can we get a sticky topic telling people to make their own tourneys instead of suggesting changes to the competitive scene so we can just lock all topics like this? These are getting old.

 

[MookieRah]

Tourney rules are for losers anyways. There I said it, I saved you all the effort of saying it.

Congrats! You are the biggest loser for signing up to a board that, for the most part, is about competitive smash to tell us this! I feel so enlightened.

But, with the Stage Editor, wouldn't the Stage banning stuff be a lot less of a mess?

We aren't sure about the Stage Editor as of yet. I doubt that we will have many (if any) user created stages as part of the typical tournament setup. The reason for this is that it would be hard for the community as a whole to agree that the stage is needed enough to warrant it being considered with the stages pre-packaged with the game.

as I've seen Pit is a bit "weak" and that could be a reason of why his FS doesn't require any time to set up

For starters, Pit seems pretty **** good. Not as good as Sonic, Meta, Mario, and Peach, but he was riding the coattails from the demo. He was obviously better than DK who has the worst FS. Also, Sonic was considered to be one of the best at the demo and had *debatably* the best FS. There is no balance in the FS's, it's just a cool addition that was intended to be fun.

 

[maxieman]

This is exactly why im gonna use the stage editor to creat a stage of only two blocks, floating about 3 blocks away from each other.... ultimate aerial fight/trying to land match ever

 

[bob-e]

I understand everything that you are saying. But if you think the tournament rules take too much fun out of the game, don't go to tournaments. No one is forcing you to go.

Heck, I'm beginning to see why they compare the tournament rules to removing Weapons from Halo 3

Weapons spawn in the same place, with a predictable reliable frequency. You can use this to plan ahead and develop your own strategy around it. If Halo 3 had energy swords and rocket launchers appearing out of thin air, then tournament rules would be comparable to removing them.

Seriously, sometimes it feels like the people who decide the rules are like parents that want the best for their kids, but are a little too overprotective and a little too strict.

There isn't an evil tournament overlord who dictates the rules and forces everyone to play by them. Tournaments are organized by players for players. Tourneys do not play with items because the majority of people attending them don't want to, not because some evil tourney director is making them.

The thing you have to understand about tournaments is that they are all about money. If it wasn't for the money tournaments would be virtually pointless, no one would go through the trouble of having to travel, sign up, pay money, and then play their matches on a schedule. Everyone would just get together at a friend's house and play some Melee, which is exactly what you should do if you think the tourney rules aren't that fun. At their core tournaments are about money, and randomness has no place when money is involved. Otherwise, everyone could just show up, play dice for a couple hours, and go home.

I doubt we will ever see a character banned. It is much more affective to just remove the elements that a character can grossly abuse. Let's look at Temple for example. It is banned largely because of Fox, he can just spam his blaster to get ahead by a few percent, then run fast enough to be untouchable, except by another Fox. This is the same reason several other stages are banned. So then why don't you just ban Fox? Because, if you do that, then the next fastest character with projectiles becomes the broken one, in this case Falco. If you ban characters, the problem only continues until you are left with the worst in the game.

 

[MajinNecro69]

I say do NOT ban characters or final smashes, since there seems to be a con for each one that prevents them from being overpowered.

-Projectile Final Smashes: Can be avoided if high enough or low enough over/under it.
Examples of Characters with a Projectile Final Smash: Mario, Samus, Pokemon Trainer

-Army Final Smashes: Small characters/items may do little damage by themselves, and be fairly easy to dodge at least 50% of them.
Examples of Characters with an Army Final Smash: Pit, King Dedede, Lucas

-Melee Final Smash: Limited range in their attack, if not in the initial range, FS becomes useless.
Examples of Characters with a Melee Final Smash: Link, Ike, Meta-Knight

-Transformation Final Smash: As only three characters at this point transform through their FS (aside from Samus, who transforms AFTER), each shall be analyzed individually.
-Giga-Bowser: Although enormous with no knockback, it's probably slow as sin, and can probably be avoided on platform heavy stages. As for stages like Final Destination, I'm not entirely sure. I need to confirm if Giga Bowser takes damage at all, since if so, projectile characters can attack from afar, then KO Bowser after transformation.
-Wario-Man: Makes Wario somewhat stronger. That's it. NOT hard to defeat. In fact, it might make Wario worse.
-Landmaster Tank: It seems as if you can stand on top of it, which is a very easy way to prevent it from doing too much. Once again, platform heavy stages can possibly murder this FS.
Examples of Characters with Transformation Final Smashes: Bowser, Wario, Fox

-Power-Up Final Smashes: These tend to be difficult to control, and if they run out at the wrong time, may cause you to KO yourself.
Examples of Characters with Power-Up Final Smashes: Sonic, Pikachu, Diddy Kong, Yoshi

-AOE (Area of Effect) Final Smashes: Based on placing within a said stage. If players are not placed within the range of Final Smash, they are not affected.
Examples of Characters with AOE Final Smashes: Peach, Donkey Kong, Kirby (possibly)

A character, thus far, has fallen into one of these categories. If they don't this will be amended. But, since every character has something wrong with their Final Smash, Smash Balls should not a problem. Also, I cannot think of a Fighting game in which individual characters are banned (no, the komas from jump Ultimate Stars don't count, they're not playable characters). It's ridiculous.

EDIT: I stand corrected. If Barrels/Crates/etc. appear if Smash Balls appear, then yes, they should be banned for tourney play, but from what I've seen, they don't drop from the sky like most items, they appear out of nowhere, so I don't think it will cause Barrels/Crates/etc. to appear, thus Smash Balls should be OK.

 

[Corax The Cold]

the game isnt out and ur assuming a character will be banned in a tourney?? rofl

 

[MookieRah]

Categorizing them and talking about their strengths and weaknesses don't make them any more or less broke there guy -_-. You still don't address the randomness of smash balls either.

Also you are wrong about Giga Bowser. He is a beast. If the person playing him is competant you will lose a stock. He cannot be grabbed, he doesn't flinch, and his attacks have insane reach as well as his grab. It is merely GG to your opponents stock.

The same goes with Sonic. You transform into this flying ridiculously fast character that slaughters you by merely bumping into you. Gimpy said you could jab it and clank, but it by no means was enough to stop Super Sonic. Once you are knocked out the Sonic player merely flies out to bump you some more, and this is all easily controlled.

Pika is in the same boat as Sonic, but it's a lot harder to control. Given time though, people will be able to control him and it would be just as broke.

There is no balance to Final Smashes, I don't see why people try to make it out to be this way.

the game isnt out and ur assuming a character will be banned in a tourney?? rofl

The only character that stands a chance of being banned is ZSS, and that has absolutely nothing to do with her being broken, but has everything to do with it because you must have a smash ball to become her. Unless there is a method of transforming into her at the beginning of the match (I hope to god that Sakurai is smart enough to do this) she won't be a part of competitive smash.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Dang. Mookie beat me to the punch.

I guess I'll summarize once again: If you don't like tournament rules, do not enter tournaments. Why is this such a complicated concept? The NBA has some pretty outrageous rules regarding professional basketball, but who am I to go bang on their door and tell them what to do? The rules are not determined overnight. Experience tells tournament directors how to set the rules.

 

[Xanderous]

I understand everything that you are saying. But if you think the tournament rules take too much fun out of the game, don't go to tournaments. No one is forcing you to go.


Weapons spawn in the same place, with a predictable reliable frequency. You can use this to plan ahead and develop your own strategy around it. If Halo 3 had energy swords and rocket launchers appearing out of thin air, then tournament rules would be comparable to removing them.


There isn't an evil tournament overlord who dictates the rules and forces everyone to play by them. Tournaments are organized by players for players. Tourneys do not play with items because the majority of people attending them don't want to, not because some evil tourney director is making them.

The thing you have to understand about tournaments is that they are all about money. If it wasn't for the money tournaments would be virtually pointless, no one would go through the trouble of having to travel, sign up, pay money, and then play their matches on a schedule. Everyone would just get together at a friend's house and play some Melee, which is exactly what you should do if you think the tourney rules aren't that fun. At their core tournaments are about money, and randomness has no place when money is involved. Otherwise, everyone could just show up, play dice for a couple hours, and go home.

I doubt we will ever see a character banned. It is much more affective to just remove the elements that a character can grossly abuse. Let's look at Temple for example. It is banned largely because of Fox, he can just spam his blaster to get ahead by a few percent, then run fast enough to be untouchable, except by another Fox. This is the same reason several other stages are banned. So then why don't you just ban Fox? Because, if you do that, then the next fastest character with projectiles becomes the broken one, in this case Falco. If you ban characters, the problem only continues until you are left with the worst in the game.

Love your sig.

And yeah, you're right.

 

[Takeshi245]

Dang. Mookie beat me to the punch.

I guess I'll summarize once again: If you don't like tournament rules, do not enter tournaments. Why is this such a complicated concept? The NBA has some pretty outrageous rules regarding professional basketball, but who am I to go bang on their door and tell them what to do? The rules are not determined overnight. Experience tells tournament directors how to set the rules.

Just about, Buzz. I have an idea. Why don't you guys combine your names? For starters, MookieRah, change your name to MookieBuzz and Buzz, change your name to BuzzRah since it seems like you guys are so similar to each other. Oh and OP, just don't go to tournaments or make your own. Simple as that. There are already good reasons why items are banned and Final Smashes aren't looking so good either.

 

[Corax The Cold]

the game isnt out yet, you cant speculate on whats going to be tournament legal, its just too early

 

[Pink Reaper]

Just some things I think you should know

-Army Final Smashes: Small characters/items may do little damage by themselves, and be fairly easy to dodge at least 50% of them.
Examples of Characters with an Army Final Smash: Pit, King Dedede, Lucas

I can only speak for Pit but from what I've seen there's no way to avoid half of the Army. If you get hit ONCE your going to be stunned long enough to get hit by the next and the next and the next and the next etc.... And don't forget that while his FS is going on he can still move freely greatly increasing his chances of getting you caught in the FS

-Melee Final Smash: Limited range in their attack, if not in the initial range, FS becomes useless.
Examples of Characters with a Melee Final Smash: Link, Ike, Meta-Knight

Just one thing, Link's FS actually has A LOT of range on it. I saw Germ manage to hit someone who was waiting on the stage while he had be knocked waaaaay off stage.

-Giga-Bowser: Although enormous with no knockback, it's probably slow as sin, and can probably be avoided on platform heavy stages. As for stages like Final Destination, I'm not entirely sure. I need to confirm if Giga Bowser takes damage at all, since if so, projectile characters can attack from afar, then KO Bowser after transformation.

Yes, Giga Bowser does take damage from attacks but its not really possible to escape him. I played on every level with Bowser and managed to get FS on all of them as well. Even on Norfair or Skyworld, there was no where anyone could go(Except for Meta Knight, he can stall out with his ridiculous jumping ability) You cant exactly out run him because he takes up the ENTIRE stage and you cant get around him because he's HUGE. And it only takes one hit to kill someone cus if you can get them off the stage they cant make it back.

-Landmaster Tank: It seems as if you can stand on top of it, which is a very easy way to prevent it from doing too much. Once again, platform heavy stages can possibly murder this FS.

You CAN stand on it, but its a pretty bad idea as the barrel roll can toss you off and deal huge damage. Also the hit box from the gun shot actually comes out through the entirety of the tank so your still gonna get hit if your on top of it. As for platform stages, you can hover with the tank and save yourself from falling. Also, if someone is standing on top of the tank you can just hover off the top of the screen and force them to SD.

-Power-Up Final Smashes: These tend to be difficult to control, and if they run out at the wrong time, may cause you to KO yourself.
Examples of Characters with Power-Up Final Smashes: Sonic, Pikachu, Diddy Kong, Yoshi

Your half right on this one. Pikachu and Diddy are difficult to control and you COULD possibly kill yourself with them. But I saw a Pikachu de-transform UNDER a stage but with the new ledge mechanic he was still able to make it back. However your right about those two, they do have a hard time controlling. HOWEVER Sonic and Yoshi are amazingly easy to control and in Yoshi's case(despite being a horrible character in general) has an AMAZING FS. Its easy to control and its very powerful and its highly unlikely you'll kill yourself using it.

-AOE (Area of Effect) Final Smashes: Based on placing within a said stage. If players are not placed within the range of Final Smash, they are not affected.
Examples of Characters with AOE Final Smashes: Peach, Donkey Kong, Kirby(possibly)

Peach's FS sucks, DK's FS sucks, Kirby's FS is gonna be broken(it CREATES SUPER SPICY CURRY)

 

[Takeshi245]

the game isnt out yet, you cant speculate on whats going to be tournament legal, its just too early

People speculate all the time. Making guesses is what many people do. Besides, if I CAN'T speculate, then why am I speculating now? Besides, you can't force people not do since they'll do it anyway and have a right to.

 

[SpeedAcE]

Ah, that's a shame. Why did such a fun concept have to be banned from competitive play? Jesus Christ.

I never use this as a derogatory term, but regardless of my concurrence, removing one of Brawl's most prominent and distinguishable traits is really... gay.

 

[MajinSweet]

Ah, that's a shame. Why did such a fun concept have to be banned from competitive play? Jesus Christ.

I never use this as a derogatory term, but regardless of my concurrence, removing one of Brawl's most prominent and distinguishable traits is really... gay.

Then don't use tourney rules, no one is forcing you too. And why do you care how someone else plays the game?

 

[SpeedAcE]

Then don't use tourney rules, no one is forcing you too. And why do you care how someone else plays the game?

I will be playing competitively. Many of us feel obligated to play and practice in such a way that puts us on the same level as that of others. We won't play with FS's because competitive play doesn't allow it, and we hope to expand our skill on a competitive level. Playing with Final Smashes will not allow this.

And as I said prior, if FS's deserve banning, then I agree sincerely. That doesn't change the fact that it is really ****ing gay.

 

[Sosuke]

who likes poke floats anyway? its annoying. and its just for fairness.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Lock this thread already. The only thing that this thread is going to accomplish is attracting more n00bs to say the same things that have already been posted.

 

[WIND SMASHER X]

I think what he is trying to say is that the best of the best will only be known from major tournies that use standard rules. He believes that this is unfair because people like him who want to be the best are forced to play by someone else's rules. You are forced to follow someone else's rules other than your own in his case and that may be a letdown. Imagine if you will that everyone is used to the standard rules the way they are now. Now lets say there are no famous Smashers any more. Now pretend the only way to be known as the best or even good is to win a tourney with these rules.

items on very high
any stage avaliable
coin match
time 2:00
No advanced techs(L cancel,WD etc)
A ruleset like that is way out there right. And yes it does have its obvious flaws. Now if up to this point you had been playing by the normal standard and had this thrown at you what then? Wouldn't it infuriate you that all your time learning techs and rules and mindgames was all wasted. And yes you could just host your own tourney, but what if this new way became the standard for example and no one cared whatsoever for your tourney? It would suck right. Thats probaly how some people feel since its the only way they can be known as a top smasher and they are forced to drop everything they've learned and are forced to play another way to be known as good. This maybe a point he is trying to get across or not, but its something to think about.

btw two things

1. I'm actually neutral here until the set of rules come out for Brawl.
2. Please stop sucking Mookie's E peen. He makes valid points and is a nice guy and good debator but he doesn't need you guys groveling at his feet.

 

[courte]

nvm ignore this post

 

[DraginHikari]

You know on both sides: These kind of posts would go away if you stopped getting defensive the moment your views are challeneged... just a thought. They'd all disappear under other topics.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Taken from my blog: http://blog.smashnexus.net/?p=76

--- --- ---

Casual smashers view tournaments as an extension of casual play. The tournament layer simply adds a few rules (primarily brackets) to help funnel a group down to its top player. There is no need for further restrictions (stage bans, item bans, etc.) because that takes away from “the original game” or “the way it is meant to be played”. Everyone enjoys competition to a degree. That is why families gather for board games. The goal of any game is to win, so competition is a natural element, but board games are also often structured in such a manner that it is difficult for a person to win multiple times in a row. Losing repeatedly is degrading to anyone’s morale, so fun is also a key element.

Competitive smashers view tournaments in an entirely different light. Fun is meant to be a natural side effect of intense competition, not a forcibly implemented aspect. Serious competition requires rule sets that leave control in the hands of the players. Competition is no fun if victory can be tossed around through unfairly spawning explosives or unpredictable stage dynamics. A player should win on account of discipline and proficiency, not dumb luck. Otherwise, there is no real “victory”.

The conflict arises when both sides try to understand each other and fail. Casual smashers see tournament rules as heartless and unfair toward anyone who attempts to enter its “society”. Entering a tournament and losing twice in a double elimination tournament is quite depressing. Round robin events are slightly better, but it still hurts losing so many times in a row to more experienced players. Many competitive smashers do not feel much sympathy because that is the price to gaining skill. Here is the point: Fun is not a part of serious competition. It sounds odd at first, but it is true. Fun is a result of competition. That is why items are banned, stages are restricted, and people pick high tier characters. Winning is fun; I’m sure most can agree on that. Winning is more fun when it is hard-earned. Winning the state championship in basketball is far more satisfying than winning one game against a few friends.

Casual smashers really ought to just steer clear of tournaments instead of discussing them. Contrary to popular belief, competitive players also smash for fun. When not competing or preparing for a tournament, these players gather together, enable items, and play FFA on “banned” stages. No one should go to a tournament and expect to have fun.

 

[SinisterLizard]

When did the Brawl general discussion become the hive for discussion on tournament rules and different ways of playing Smash??

I wasn't aware there were any tournaments for Brawl going on. Anyone care to share? Anyone already setting up rules and completely know the ins and outs of the game so they are qualified to examine it? I think not.

Which means this is all still Melee discussion, meaning all of these sorts of topics are in entirely the wrong forum...

 

[Teh Popo]

You know, people have said basically the same thing in other threads. How many threads do you guys want about the same thing?

Define "always." Also, if you adhere to rules yet don't go to tournaments, don't blame the tournament scene for it. Nobody is making you play that way. The only reason I could see one "forced" to do so is if all their friends play that way, and if that's the case, you should be happy that you have people to play with. Go to the regional sections and look at all the people who wish they had friends to play with.

Due to money and medical reasons, I haven't been able to go to that many tournaments, but that doesn't mean I don't want to. I've been more healthy as of late, and I could see going to some Brawl tourneys, plus there will likely be online ones. I know I don't have have to play by tournament standards, but I PREFER to, to stay well-practiced.

My friends play some Smash, but only one of them is around my skill level, and none of them play that often. As my other thread states, I've gotten my mom into Melee, and neither she nor I have any major qualms about the tournament rules of that game.

This is why I question how long you played with tournament rules. If you had been on the scene for a while you would fully understand why most stages are banned.

Actually, to tell the truth, my friends and I mostly played on Final Destination, even before I knew what tourney standards were. I've adhered to those standards for 2 years.

They look to me like they are pretty much just as balanced as they were in melee, which means they aren't very balanced at all. Items aren't about balance and fairness, they are there to spice things up. As it's been stated many times, the spawn point is random, the spawn intervals are random, and the item spawned are random. They may or may not fixed the issue with the crates and capsules, but seeing how the tournament scene is and it's stance against randomness, even if that is fixed they will still likely be banned.

Yeah, I guess. I wish there were items that were just silly or fun, that didn't do anything too drastic, so it'd be more like having a variety to your attacks than an out and out advantage. =/

Oh noes, my fanboyishness prevents me from playing by tournament rules. The thing is, if Shadow Moses is ban worthy, I would want it to be banned. I want the levels and new features to be rigorously tested, but if it turns out to be **** on the competitive field then it deserves to be banned.

I was joking. >_>

For starters, please don't even try to blame the competitive scene for this. If Sakurai is dumb enough to ONLY allow for ZSS with a final smash an NO other way, then even with smash balls you wouldn't get to play with her much. Stop acting like we have committed the atrocity and start blaming the incredibly dumb idea to access her as a character.

Well, that is true.

Final Smash had a chance early on when we didn't understand how they would be implemented. It was one of the things I was really fighting for to keep in, BUT as more and more information came about it became painfully obvious they were not good for tournament play. Some characters have blatantly overpowered ones, some very minor ones that require one to use it at a specific time. Case in point, Sonic or Bowser would have a huge advantage over DK. Those characters could basically guard the smash ball and not even try to collect it, and make it hell for the other player to get it. Then once the DK gets it, they could then pummel the DK out of it and steal it before he has a chance to really use it. It's also not just DK, others like Samus, Mario, Peach to some extent, and even Link and Meta have to kinda "set up" their smashes to get the most out of them.

It's really not hard to see how that is a bad thing competitively, AND I haven't even talked about their random spawns and movement patterns that could give one character an undeserved advantage.

I didn't actually know that they were so powerful. I thought they'd be like beefy Shinku Hadokens, not one-hit kills in some cases.

When you get to the point to where a lot of your money is on the line at a tournament, THEN come back to me and tell me the rules are too strict. You guys don't understand that the rules aren't about making everyone happy, it's about determining the better player. Stop acting like we are forcing this on you too, cause we aren't. If you don't like it but still want to be competitive, host your own tournaments.

If only I had the resources to host a tournament. =/

Mookie ****** this thread, YEAH!

MookieRah just owned this thread. Well, you'll be seeing the tournament rules for Brawl soon enough.

Dammit Mookie, stop ****** everyone, it gives the rest of us nothing to do v.v

Excuse me? I shared an opinion and didn't force it on anyone, and this Mookie guy disagreed politely, and you consider that "ownage" and/or "******"? What, do you immediately think I'm some kind of piece of **** that should be violently shut down for disliking something without even being rude about it?

Fixed courtesy of anon

This guy is from www.4chan.org, you should all tell your friends about it!

Lock this thread already. The only thing that this thread is going to accomplish is attracting more n00bs to say the same things that have already been posted.

"Lock this thread"? Perhaps I should request you be banned, as long as we're just gonna be unreasonable here and make unreasonable demands.

As for the oft-repeated mantra "If you don't like tournament rules, don't play in tournaments," I will probably play in a few tournaments with traditional tourney rules, but that doesn't mean I'll necessarily like it quite as much as I would if the rules were a little more liberal, though I wouldn't want it to be an all-out Bob-omb, Pokeball, and Golden Hammer-fest, either. I've always been the sort to (politely) criticize "casual" playstyles if one was suggesting that such a thing should be the official tourney rules, I just dislike some things that might potentially be the tournament rules in Brawl.

Really, though, MookieRah made me realize that for the most part, it's Sakurai's fault; while I agreed with most of the Stages that were banned in Melee should be banned, some of the banned stages were fun, regardless, and the stages that look likely to be banned look very fun, but Sakurai made the items and Final Smashes way too powerful, and is the one at fault for the likelihood of ZSS being unusable in tournaments.

 

[PaperLink]

If you don't like tournament rules, do not enter tournaments.

I agree that the tourney rules are very well planned and are for the intrest of the players. However, while I'm not sure, I can guess that the reason people complain about the rules is because they want to play in tournies, and see said rule as a flaw. I don't neccesarily agree with him (in fact the only thing I have problem with is ZSS possibly getting cut), just kinda putting trying to show why 'just not going' isn't the answer for some people.

 

[Brawler360]

I see where and when tournament rules can be fun, but it really is ridiculous to ban characters. That is way too far. How can you even justify that?

 

[Tyeforce]

I'm tired of the excuse that exploding crates and barrels ruin the game. All you have to do is expect the worst. Don't throw it down at yourself, don't attack it, and block any thrown at you. It's not that hard. If you always expect them to not explode, then of course you are going to be caught off guard sometimes. Just be ready for anything. If your hammer head falls off...well, sucks for you. It could also happen to your opponents...then it sucks for then, too. If you don't want to take the risk, then don't pick it up. Got a Goldeen when you were expecting a Ho-Oh? Too bad. Don't completely rely on items to help you. Occasionally you'll get screwed. It happens. And sometimes your opponent will be the one to get screwed. Just because you can control certain aspects of a game you should just because you don't think it's fair. Life's not fair, and it never will be. If you actually practice using certain items and come up with strategies for when you use them or when they're used against you instead of just banning them and acting like they don't exist, then people might see them as tools that can be used to their advantage instead of random, unfair, luck-based should-be-banned items. So, the moral of the story is take luck into account and expect anything instead of not trying to work around it at all. I'm not trying to base tournaments, I'm just showing how items would work if people just accepted them instead of banning them.

 

[Mike G]

I'm tired of the excuse that exploding crates and barrels ruin the game. All you have to do is expect the worst. Don't throw it down at yourself, don't attack it, and block any thrown at you. It's not that hard. If you always expect them to not explode, then of course you are going to be caught off guard sometimes. Just be ready for anything. If your hammer head falls off...well, sucks for you. It could also happen to your opponents...then it sucks for then, too. If you don't want to take the risk, then don't pick it up. Got a Goldeen when you were expecting a Ho-Oh? Too bad. Don't completely rely on items to help you. Occasionally you'll get screwed. It happens. And sometimes your opponent will be the one to get screwed. Just because you can control certain aspects of a game you should just because you don't think it's fair. Life's not fair, and it never will be. If you actually practice using certain items and come up with strategies for when you use them or when they're used against you instead of just banning them and acting like they don't exist, then people might see them as tools that can be used to their advantage instead of random, unfair, luck-based should-be-banned items. So, the moral of the story is take luck into account and expect anything instead of not trying to work around it at all. I'm not trying to base tournaments, I'm just showing how items would work if people just accepted them instead of banning them.

OK! so I need to do 20 "luck" Floatcancel dairs with Peach every day for the next few weeks? and train my mind to expect random item spawn points? this luck thing will make me defeat Ken and PC Chris right?

and then when I easily win 2000 bux at a tourney I'll just tell the other guys that lost: "Life's not fair, and it never will be"

hmmm.. I like this

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

^I don't even play in tourneys, and I lol at the poor fool who thinks that they have the ability to cancel a charged smash when an explosive item spawns RIGHT ON TOP OF THEM.

 

[MookieRah]

No one should go to a tournament and expect to have fun.

Wah? This is the first time I disagree with Buzz :-(. I love tournaments, even my first where I got ***** by over half the people there. Why do I love it if I get *****? Cause I get to play new people, learn new things, and talk to more experienced players. Interacting with all the people I talk to on these forums and online and playing them and recieving pointers and all that is ****ing awesome.

I do see how it wouldn't be fun if you were unaware of the tournament scene and showed up at a very competitive tournament and got thrashed. Especially if you showed up recently, cause pretty much everyone would be better :-(. However, depending on your personality type and how open you are, you could take a tournament as an oppertunity to learn and be immersed in this community you weren't aware of.

HOLY ****ING **** IT'S MIKE G!!!!

 

[DraginHikari]

Wah? This is the first time I disagree with Buzz :-(. I love tournaments, even my first where I got ***** by over half the people there. Why do I love it if I get *****? Cause I get to play new people, learn new things, and talk to more experienced players. Interacting with all the people I talk to on these forums and online and playing them and recieving pointers and all that is ****ing awesome.

I do see how it wouldn't be fun if you were unaware of the tournament scene and showed up at a very competitive tournament and got thrashed. Especially if you showed up recently, cause pretty much everyone would be better :-(. However, depending on your personality type and how open you are, you could take a tournament as an oppertunity to learn and be immersed in this community you weren't aware of.

HOLY ****ING **** IT'S MIKE G!!!!

Hehe... fun is one of those fickle words that can differ much...

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Wah? This is the first time I disagree with Buzz :-(. I love tournaments, even my first where I got ***** by over half the people there. Why do I love it if I get *****? Cause I get to play new people, learn new things, and talk to more experienced players. Interacting with all the people I talk to on these forums and online and playing them and recieving pointers and all that is ****ing awesome.

I do see how it wouldn't be fun if you were unaware of the tournament scene and showed up at a very competitive tournament and got thrashed. Especially if you showed up recently, cause pretty much everyone would be better :-(. However, depending on your personality type and how open you are, you could take a tournament as an oppertunity to learn and be immersed in this community you weren't aware of.

HOLY ****ING **** IT'S MIKE G!!!!

Actually, I think this is one of those situations where we do agree; I just didn't word my position correctly. I was implying that tournaments do not inherently provide rules that strictly boost the fun (aside from fun events like low tier or items). I was not trying to say that people do not have fun at tournaments. I have LOADS of fun at tournaments!

 

[Pink Reaper]

I'm tired of the excuse that exploding crates and barrels ruin the game. All you have to do is expect the worst. Don't throw it down at yourself, don't attack it, and block any thrown at you. It's not that hard. If you always expect them to not explode, then of course you are going to be caught off guard sometimes. Just be ready for anything. If your hammer head falls off...well, sucks for you. It could also happen to your opponents...then it sucks for then, too. If you don't want to take the risk, then don't pick it up. Got a Goldeen when you were expecting a Ho-Oh? Too bad. Don't completely rely on items to help you. Occasionally you'll get screwed. It happens. And sometimes your opponent will be the one to get screwed. Just because you can control certain aspects of a game you should just because you don't think it's fair. Life's not fair, and it never will be. If you actually practice using certain items and come up with strategies for when you use them or when they're used against you instead of just banning them and acting like they don't exist, then people might see them as tools that can be used to their advantage instead of random, unfair, luck-based should-be-banned items. So, the moral of the story is take luck into account and expect anything instead of not trying to work around it at all. I'm not trying to base tournaments, I'm just showing how items would work if people just accepted them instead of banning them.

Im going to take this time to say that while I was going for the Mew trophy(beating All-Star mode on Hard or Very Hard without continuing for those who didnt know) I managed to get to the final match with one heart container left. I used it and started the match. And when I got down to 2 G&W's I did an upsmash. And then I died. Im not sure what I hit, could have been a bob-bomb, could have been an egg/capsule that decided I needed to die. I had no idea it was coming, I never even saw what it was. Now I was angry(so angry that I haven't actually gone back to the trophy) but I didnt actually lose anything. Now lets say it was the finals match of a MELEE: FC tourny and a Falco, oh lets say Shiz just because I like him, goes to do a Dsmash edgeguard and when he hits his opponent he also hits a bob-bomb that spawns behind him. But his opponent ledge techs it and now Shiz and his Falco dont have the ability to recover. I guess you can just tell the guy that lost thousands of dollars that life's not fair.

 

[Gerbil]

Mike G entered the topic, so this thread is now OWNED. Like Mookie was just warming it up and now that Mike is here it's all like "BLAM! *****!". Kinda reminds me of Boondocks.

Topic Creator: Hey watch where you're goin *****.
Mike: Hey hey whatchoo say *****?!
Topic Creator: Squeeze it *****!

*guns shots*

But Mike G don't miss. XD

 

[Mike G]

Mike G entered the topic, so this thread is now OWNED. Like Mookie was just warming it up and now that Mike is here it's all like "BLAM! *****!". Kinda reminds me of Boondocks.

Topic Creator: Hey watch where you're goin *****.
Mike: Hey hey whatchoo say *****?!
Topic Creator: Squeeze it *****!

*guns shots*

But Mike G don't miss. XD

fo shizzle.

 

[DonkeyPirate]

this is so ridiculous. tournament rules are not about someone winning a game, its about the most skilled player winning the game. yes there is a difference. an explosive falling on me, or you getting a good item does not make you a better player than me. thats what it comes down to. who is the BETTER player, not the LUCKIEST. Play however you want at home. I like many others have a set of rules I choose to use that may differ from tournament play. My friends and I back in the day used to have a no edgeguarding rule (because one of my friends was a punkass and couldnt handle it.) Now that he doesnt play, we do tourney rules because they make the most sense. We do have some levels that everyone can agree on playing and we play them because thats what we want. But I'm not gonna come to a forum about competetive play and try to convince everyone that Mute City or Hyrule should be legal, or that we should take off the time limits, even if that is how I play. Really if you have a problem with tourney rules, then you probably shouldn't waste your time at a tourney. I don't think there exists a tournament player that doesn't agree with the rules.

 

[NES n00b]

If you are bored, it is your problem not ours. Don't give **** about what is "the soul" of the game either.

 

[Teh Popo]

If you are bored, it is your problem not ours. Don't give **** about what is "the soul" of the game either.

Wow. I know most tourney players believe the "soul" of the game is making it as balanced and fair as possible, but I guess you don't enjoy playing it at all.

 

[Blackshadow]

Wow. I know most tourney players believe the "soul" of the game is making it as balanced and fair as possible, but I guess you don't enjoy playing it at all.

Tourney players believe that the "soul" of TOURNAMENTS is making it as balanced and fair as possible. I would like to see where you pulled this idea of us believing the "soul" of the game for us is making it as balanced and fair as possible.