I'm starting to dislike tournament rules.

[Teh Popo]

First off, I'm not a troll.

I've only played in 1 tournament for SSBM, but I've always adhered to tournament rules. I was never that big a fan of items, because they'd either be pathetically weak, or severely overpowered and unbalanced, compared to a similar game like Power Stone where most items are fairly balanced. I did like a few items though, like the Warp Star because it felt cool, and the Star Rod is pretty fun, and a few other fun items like Flippers, Bumpers, and sometimes the Barrel Cannon.

When I found out about certain levels being banned, that's when I felt like the game was being stripped down a bit. I didn't care that much about some of them, but levels like Big Blue and Mushroom Kingdom 1 were some of my favorites.

Regardless, I stuck to the tournament rules because my very favorite level, Poke Floats, and another level I really like, Rainbow Cruise, are legal. I just really like wacky levels, it takes some skill to adapt to them, and breaks up the monotony. I do like Final Destination for really intense matches, though; it's so dramatic how it's just you and your opponent, nothing more, nothing less, and the background is cool looking. Battlefield kinda bores me, but that's neither here nor there.

Seeing the updates for Brawl, however, I find that almost all of the new items look fun and most of 'em not too overpowered, and really hope the Warioware and Pictochat stages do not get banned, but it seems like New Pork City will get banned for sure; it's as big as the temple AND can one-hit ko people as part of a level feature, and Norfair will likely get banned, even though it seems to add a fun "King of the Hill" style of gameplay, and it seems like it could go either way with The Summit. Heck, even Skyworld might get the axe, and so help me God, I will be done with tournament rules forever if Shadow Moses gets banned.

What feels close to crossing the line for me is that a CHARACTER might be unplayable in tournaments. That might be the last straw for me. I agreed with items being removed because of the exploding containers, I begrudgingly agreed with levels being banned, I have no complaints with Wavedashing and other advanced techniques, but a character?

It feels like the fine line between making a game balanced and gutting everything is about to be crossed. I mean, hell, it's bad enough that a character might not even be usable, but Final Smashes will likely be unusable too, and I was excited that Brawl would have them, before I realized the Final Smash thingies would be items.

Heck, I'm beginning to see why they compare the tournament rules to removing Weapons from Halo 3; perhaps some items or levels might be unfair in some circumstances, but is it really worth stripping out the soul of a game to make things "fair"? I mean, couldn't we have just let some stages be choose able if neither player was using a character that could take advantage of a level's design, ie. Bowser vs. Bowser on Hyrule Temple?

Seriously, sometimes it feels like the people who decide the rules are like parents that want the best for their kids, but are a little too overprotective and a little too strict.

 

[Mambo]

I feel the pain. It just seems intrensicly sad to push away so much of the game. But I do think mother knows best in this case. I think the rules take the best approach and while it does comprimise a few places, it makes remembering the rules pretty easy (mainly just what stages) to know. Overall it isn't ideal, it's the best under the circumstances. I don't hope Brawl is so bad a character would get banned. I don't see it happening though.

 

[joeysmash]

Banning characters would be the last straw....... i have a feeling though that items are gonna have a comeback though, after all, it seems more items are gonna be balanced this time...

i don't see anything wrong with smash balls though

 

[ShortFuse]

You need to look at things different. Hyrule Temple isn't banned only because it's big. It's banned because once your opponent gets 100%, he'll camp in the bottom of the level. Also, delay of running away. The Bowser vs Bowser doesn't work. Say you're down a stock, your opponent will run away because he's ahead a stock and he'll just wait for time to run out. Guess what, you lose. That money you put down in tournament had nothing to do with your skill, your opponent just ran away.

Mushroom Kingdom is banned because it's random. It has nothing to do with the switches. A giant bulletbill can appear off screen when your opponent (Like via a Marth tipper) will send you off screen. You didn't see it, but there was a bulletbill coming and he nerfed your double jump. Now you die at 20% (as Yoshi or something).

Items are banned because of random spawn rates and position. Imagine being a 4 stock match you have 20% health and your opponent has 100%, both of you have one stock left. Let's say another Marth tipper comes and you get pushed off the edge. Oh, look at that a flipper appeared right next to your opponent and he places it right by the edge. Sucks for you.

A Star Man appears behind your opponent, sucks for you. Bombomb appears as you are going to land a smash attack on your opponent, he holds block, you die.

You opponent gets Bunny Hood and has Jigglypuff. Wall of pain destruction.

I doubt characters will be banned. Sakurai is trying to balance the game. It's not Necrid from Soul Calibur. Also, things that make characters broken (not including glitches) are banned, like Wobbling. Also, some infinites aren't banned in Melee. For example, Fox's drillshine-waveshine-drillshine infinite because it's so hard to pull. I think but i could be wrong that Chaingrabbing was limitted to 4 chaingrabs or something.

 

[Pink Reaper]

but is it really worth stripping out the soul of a game to make things "fair"?

When theres thousands of dollars on the line, I think fairness is something that should really be considered >_>

And whats all this talk about a character being banned, who would be banned? I can see Ike as being unplayable but I cant see any characters as being banned. Also, its fine if you don't like tournament rules, no one is forcing them on you, if you want to play your way, then play your way, just understand that there are quite a few of us that enjoy the tourney rules.

Banning characters would be the last straw....... i have a feeling though that items are gonna have a comeback though, after all, it seems more items are gonna be balanced this time...

i don't see anything wrong with smash balls though

Im just going to say this: Super Spicy Curry, or as I like to call it, The Super Fire Shield Invincibility Ultra Edgeguard Most Broken Item Ever, EVER. Seriously, there are a few items in the game that are just broken. Super SPicy Curry is definately the most broken thing in the game ever and there's a few other overpowered weapons like the cracker launcher(if used correctly it guarantees a kill) I cant really see items as gaining use in tourney's but I can see the smash balls if there's a way to just turn them on without having containers because Final Smashes seem to be very important to the game(even if DK's and Peach's are useless >_>)

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Tournament rules only have to be adhered to if you go to tournaments.

Who knows what the logical course of action for someone who doesn't like the rules is? Any guesses?

Topic over.

Actually, as a side note, if the community goes as far as to ban a character, it will be because that character is flagrantly unbalanced. I doubt this will happen though.

 

[Blackshadow]

I think you're missing the point regarding Zero Suit Samus not being playable in tournaments. From impressions so far, the professional Smash scene would much more benefit with Final Smashes being turned off than keeping them on for the sake of a character. If it so turns out that Final Smashes are pretty balanced, then they'll likely be turned on.

And you must remember we're not forcing you to play by "our" rules. If you disagree with Final Smashes being turned off (if they are), then set out and make your own tournament with your own rules. Its not like we're pointing a gun to your head and threatening you to play by our rules or die or anything.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[MookieRah]

You know, people have said basically the same thing in other threads. How many threads do you guys want about the same thing?

I've only played in 1 tournament for SSBM, but I've always adhered to tournament rules.

Define "always." Also, if you adhere to rules yet don't go to tournaments, don't blame the tournament scene for it. Nobody is making you play that way. The only reason I could see one "forced" to do so is if all their friends play that way, and if that's the case, you should be happy that you have people to play with. Go to the regional sections and look at all the people who wish they had friends to play with.

When I found out about certain levels being banned, that's when I felt like the game was being stripped down a bit. I didn't care that much about some of them, but levels like Big Blue and Mushroom Kingdom 1 were some of my favorites.

This is why I question how long you played with tournament rules. If you had been on the scene for a while you would fully understand why most stages are banned.

Seeing the updates for Brawl, however, I find that almost all of the new items look fun and most of 'em not too overpowered

They look to me like they are pretty much just as balanced as they were in melee, which means they aren't very balanced at all. Items aren't about balance and fairness, they are there to spice things up. As it's been stated many times, the spawn point is random, the spawn intervals are random, and the item spawned are random. They may or may not fixed the issue with the crates and capsules, but seeing how the tournament scene is and it's stance against randomness, even if that is fixed they will still likely be banned.

God, I will be done with tournament rules forever if Shadow Moses gets banned.

Oh noes, my fanboyishness prevents me from playing by tournament rules. The thing is, if Shadow Moses is ban worthy, I would want it to be banned. I want the levels and new features to be rigorously tested, but if it turns out to be **** on the competitive field then it deserves to be banned.

What feels close to crossing the line for me is that a CHARACTER might be unplayable in tournaments. That might be the last straw for me. I agreed with items being removed because of the exploding containers, I begrudgingly agreed with levels being banned, I have no complaints with Wavedashing and other advanced techniques, but a character?

For starters, please don't even try to blame the competitive scene for this. If Sakurai is dumb enough to ONLY allow for ZSS with a final smash an NO other way, then even with smash balls you wouldn't get to play with her much. Stop acting like we have committed the atrocity and start blaming the incredibly dumb idea to access her as a character.

It feels like the fine line between making a game balanced and gutting everything is about to be crossed. I mean, hell, it's bad enough that a character might not even be usable, but Final Smashes will likely be unusable too, and I was excited that Brawl would have them, before I realized the Final Smash thingies would be items.

Final Smash had a chance early on when we didn't understand how they would be implemented. It was one of the things I was really fighting for to keep in, BUT as more and more information came about it became painfully obvious they were not good for tournament play. Some characters have blatantly overpowered ones, some very minor ones that require one to use it at a specific time. Case in point, Sonic or Bowser would have a huge advantage over DK. Those characters could basically guard the smash ball and not even try to collect it, and make it hell for the other player to get it. Then once the DK gets it, they could then pummel the DK out of it and steal it before he has a chance to really use it. It's also not just DK, others like Samus, Mario, Peach to some extent, and even Link and Meta have to kinda "set up" their smashes to get the most out of them.

It's really not hard to see how that is a bad thing competitively, AND I haven't even talked about their random spawns and movement patterns that could give one character an undeserved advantage.

Seriously, sometimes it feels like the people who decide the rules are like parents that want the best for their kids, but are a little too overprotective and a little too strict.

When you get to the point to where a lot of your money is on the line at a tournament, THEN come back to me and tell me the rules are too strict. You guys don't understand that the rules aren't about making everyone happy, it's about determining the better player. Stop acting like we are forcing this on you too, cause we aren't. If you don't like it but still want to be competitive, host your own tournaments.

 

[joeysmash]

When theres thousands of dollars on the line, I think fairness is something that should really be considered >_>

And whats all this talk about a character being banned, who would be banned? I can see Ike as being unplayable but I cant see any characters as being banned. Also, its fine if you don't like tournament rules, no one is forcing them on you, if you want to play your way, then play your way, just understand that there are quite a few of us that enjoy the tourney rules.



Im just going to say this: Super Spicy Curry, or as I like to call it, The Super Fire Shield Invincibility Ultra Edgeguard Most Broken Item Ever, EVER. Seriously, there are a few items in the game that are just broken. Super SPicy Curry is definately the most broken thing in the game ever and there's a few other overpowered weapons like the cracker launcher(if used correctly it guarantees a kill) I cant really see items as gaining use in tourney's but I can see the smash balls if there's a way to just turn them on without having containers because Final Smashes seem to be very important to the game(even if DK's and Peach's are useless >_>)

WHOA HALT i said MORE of them would be better... i thought of this thing right away when i thought of broken items, but lets face it, with marked explosive crates and capsules we won't have to worry about overpowered wins... i hope!

 

[ShortFuse]

You won't have to be worry about tournament scene in Brawl.

I will be done with tournament rules forever if Shadow Moses gets banned.

It'll be banned. A giant Metal Gear appears randomly. It also has walk off stages (if that matters at all).

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Mookie ****** this thread, YEAH!

Oh, you might like this:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=110804

and this:

http://brawled.blogspot.com/2007/11/smashes-my-bros-feature-stages-and.html

If you read around in that thread a little, you'll find that most people agree that a lot of stages will be tourney legal in Brawl, so don't be worrying about that.

 

[joeysmash]

Final Smash had a chance early on when we didn't understand how they would be implemented. It was one of the things I was really fighting for to keep in, BUT as more and more information came about it became painfully obvious they were not good for tournament play. Some characters have blatantly overpowered ones, some very minor ones that require one to use it at a specific time. Case in point, Sonic or Bowser would have a huge advantage over DK. Those characters could basically guard the smash ball and not even try to collect it, and make it hell for the other player to get it. Then once the DK gets it, they could then pummel the DK out of it and steal it before he has a chance to really use it. It's also not just DK, others like Samus, Mario, Peach to some extent, and even Link and Meta have to kinda "set up" their smashes to get the most out of them.

It's really not hard to see how that is a bad thing competitively, AND I haven't even talked about their random spawns and movement patterns that could give one character an undeserved advantage.

bowser can be damaged during his, and sonics is basically the same as pikachas, but i hear no one screaming overpowered at him.

O KNOW THEY ACUALLY HAVE TO SET UP SMASHES!!!! what a concept? i though it was THE EXACT OPPOSITE THING that had reason to turn the majority of items of... you need to get your story straight pal.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I just realized, Kirby's FS deals damage AND produces Super Spicy Curry

/Banned

 

[W.Jr]

I feel somewhat what you feel, making a character banned from tournments. But on the other hand its not that bad, like samus and zero suit samus. That would be broken having one of mid tier character from SSBM attached to other version of samus from SSBB that is much Quicker, and could be a top or mid tier as well. The real reason why ZZSamus is going to be banned beacuse whatever Samus lack it seems ZZSamus makes up for that. And thats cheap having 1 character as 2 with those odds, so if ZZSamus not able to be used in tournments is for the best. Plus no items for the FM to transform.

 

[Team Giza]

with marked explosive crates and capsules we won't have to worry about overpowered wins... i hope!

They aren't banned because you cannot tell exploding capsules and boxes apart... the probably is they can appear over you mid-attack and cause you to die completely randomly. If the explosion boxes in Brawl still do this, they will be banned.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I feel somewhat what you feel, making a character banned from tournments. But on the other hand its not that bad, like samus and zero suit samus. That would be broken having one of mid tier character from SSBM attached to other version of samus from SSBB that is much Quicker, and could be a top or mid tier as well. The real reason why ZZSamus is going to be banned beacuse whatever Samus lack it seems ZZSamus makes up for that. And thats cheap having 1 character as 2 with those odds, so if ZZSamus not able to be used in tournments is for the best. Plus no items for the FM to transform.

Umm.... Zelda/Shiek? Everything that Zelda lacked, shiek made up for, but they weren't broke as a duo, shiek was broken and zelda was crap.

 

[Takeshi245]

MookieRah just owned this thread. Well, you'll be seeing the tournament rules for Brawl soon enough.

 

[bizybozo]

i don't really understand the setting up of smashes argument. If i use ganondorf i have to set up most of his moves... I don't get ur point.

 

[MookieRah]

i don't really understand the setting up of smashes argument. If i use ganondorf i have to set up most of his moves... I don't get ur point.

Bowser, Sonic, Pit, Dede, and Wario (just off the top of my head) don't have to set up their final smashes. Because of this they are free to use them as soon as they get them without worry of losing the smash ball. Other characters have final smashes that you have to set up, and using them randomly probably wouldn't work, and they run the huge risk of losing the smash ball before they have a chance to use it.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Bowser, Sonic, Pit, Dede, and Wario (just off the top of my head) don't have to set up their final smashes. Because of this they are free to use them as soon as they get them without worry of losing the smash ball. Other characters have final smashes that you have to set up, and using them randomly probably wouldn't work, and they run the huge risk of losing the smash ball before they have a chance to use it.

Mookie, you should change your name to MookieRape. It describes you more accurately. ^^

 

[Takeshi245]

Mookie, you should change your name to MookieRape. It describes you more accurately. ^^

Lol. There's that, and his post is similar to what his long lost brother, Buzz, would post.

 

[Team Giza]

So you are getting mad about the non-existent rules for Brawl Tournaments that you made up before you made this topic? Wow...
----
Final Destination should not be on random select. It should seriously be a counter pick stage.

 

[MookieRah]

Lol. There's that, and his post is similar to what his long lost brother, Buzz, would post.

That is the truth. The scary thing is while most of the time we say the same things in different words, sometimes the way we word it is actually frighteningly similar.

 

[Takeshi245]

That is the truth. The scary thing is while most of the time we say the same things in different words, sometimes the way we word it is actually frighteningly similar.

LOL. I PM'ed him about that. You guys should seriously get to know each other. You could even like the same color, drinks, foods, etc.

1,500th post! YAY!

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Mookie, you should change your name to MookieRape. It describes you more accurately. ^^

Or change your sig pic from "Good Dude" to "Bad*** ****** ******"

 

[Haddad-07]

You need to look at things different. Hyrule Temple isn't banned only because it's big. It's banned because once your opponent gets 100%, he'll camp in the bottom of the level. Also, delay of running away. The Bowser vs Bowser doesn't work. Say you're down a stock, your opponent will run away because he's ahead a stock and he'll just wait for time to run out. Guess what, you lose. That money you put down in tournament had nothing to do with your skill, your opponent just ran away.

Mushroom Kingdom is banned because it's random. It has nothing to do with the switches. A giant bulletbill can appear off screen when your opponent (Like via a Marth tipper) will send you off screen. You didn't see it, but there was a bulletbill coming and he nerfed your double jump. Now you die at 20% (as Yoshi or something).


Items are banned because of random spawn rates and position. Imagine being a 4 stock match you have 20% health and your opponent has 100%, both of you have one stock left. Let's say another Marth tipper comes and you get pushed off the edge. Oh, look at that a flipper appeared right next to your opponent and he places it right by the edge. Sucks for you.

A Star Man appears behind your opponent, sucks for you. Bombomb appears as you are going to land a smash attack on your opponent, he holds block, you die.

You opponent gets Bunny Hood and has Jigglypuff. Wall of pain destruction.

I doubt characters will be banned. Sakurai is trying to balance the game. It's not Necrid from Soul Calibur. Also, things that make characters broken (not including glitches) are banned, like Wobbling. Also, some infinites aren't banned in Melee. For example, Fox's drillshine-waveshine-drillshine infinite because it's so hard to pull. I think but i could be wrong that Chaingrabbing was limitted to 4 chaingrabs or something.

Yeah but isn't that what games is all about. Skill will carry you most of the way but some of it shou;d be down to luck. If your opponent gets a starman or yuo land on a starman tough luck

 

[Haddad-07]

You need to look at things different. Hyrule Temple isn't banned only because it's big. It's banned because once your opponent gets 100%, he'll camp in the bottom of the level. Also, delay of running away. The Bowser vs Bowser doesn't work. Say you're down a stock, your opponent will run away because he's ahead a stock and he'll just wait for time to run out. Guess what, you lose. That money you put down in tournament had nothing to do with your skill, your opponent just ran away.

Mushroom Kingdom is banned because it's random. It has nothing to do with the switches. A giant bulletbill can appear off screen when your opponent (Like via a Marth tipper) will send you off screen. You didn't see it, but there was a bulletbill coming and he nerfed your double jump. Now you die at 20% (as Yoshi or something).

Items are banned because of random spawn rates and position. Imagine being a 4 stock match you have 20% health and your opponent has 100%, both of you have one stock left. Let's say another Marth tipper comes and you get pushed off the edge. Oh, look at that a flipper appeared right next to your opponent and he places it right by the edge. Sucks for you.

A Star Man appears behind your opponent, sucks for you. Bombomb appears as you are going to land a smash attack on your opponent, he holds block, you die.

You opponent gets Bunny Hood and has Jigglypuff. Wall of pain destruction.

I doubt characters will be banned. Sakurai is trying to balance the game. It's not Necrid from Soul Calibur. Also, things that make characters broken (not including glitches) are banned, like Wobbling. Also, some infinites aren't banned in Melee. For example, Fox's drillshine-waveshine-drillshine infinite because it's so hard to pull. I think but i could be wrong that Chaingrabbing was limitted to 4 chaingrabs or something.

But isn't that what games are all about. Skill will carry you most of the way but there has to be luck involved or newbies will never get a chance to win whatsoever

 

[MookieRah]

Yeah but isn't that what games is all about.

Look, from what you are saying you guys have obviously no intentions on playing this game competitively. Since this is the case, why are you trying to tell us we are wrong for the rules we have set up? If you guys are not going to participate in the scene, don't bother trying to shape it.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Dammit Mookie, stop ****** everyone, it gives the rest of us nothing to do v.v

 

[Haddad-07]

Look, from what you are saying you guys have obviously no intentions on playing this game competitively. Since this is the case, why are you trying to tell us we are wrong for the rules we have set up? If you guys are not going to participate in the scene, don't bother trying to shape it.

No I will be trying to compete at the best standard. But items are non-bias the can appear to anyone and if the person who is winning is truly skilled they should be able to win. they also give people who are gettin destroyed a second chance. I would have given anything to have had a beam sword in my one tourny match. I could have thrown it or edgeguarded with it to some extent to try and help me get at least one more kill.

 

[Pink Reaper]

No I will be trying to compete at the best standard. But items are non-bias the can appear to anyone and if the person who is winning is truly skilled they should be able to win. they also give people who are gettin destroyed a second chance. I would have given anything to have had a beam sword in my one tourny match. I could have thrown it or edgeguarded with it to some extent to try and help me get at least one more kill.

But thats the thing, if someone is getting destroyed they are more than likely the less skilled of the two, they should be losing. But if they manage to get there hands on all the best items it throws skill levels out the window.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

No I will be trying to compete at the best standard. But items are non-bias the can appear to anyone and if the person who is winning is truly skilled they should be able to win. they also give people who are gettin destroyed a second chance. I would have given anything to have had a beam sword in my one tourny match. I could have thrown it or edgeguarded with it to some extent to try and help me get at least one more kill.

You're contradicting yourself. You want it to be a battle where the more skilled person wins, yet you also want people that are worse to have a second chance. That makes no sense at all. The worse player should lose, because he deserves to lose, and the better player should win because he deserves to win.

 

[Haddad-07]

Ok maybe i'm a bit of a ****** for posting like that so maybe there could be different sets of tourney rules. E.g Items for some tourneys and none for others. Ok i'm sorry for my idiotic posts.

 

[Xanderous]

If you're at home with your friends, then play without tournament rules. It's not a ****ing tournament, so do whatever you want.

 

[ShortFuse]

Ok maybe i'm a bit of a ****** for posting like that so maybe there could be different sets of tourney rules. E.g Items for some tourneys and none for others. Ok i'm sorry for my idiotic posts.

You can try that and people have but usually nobody shows up as such tournaments unless it's free admission and/or no prize. But then those are just friendly matches.

 

[MookieRah]

Items for some tourneys and none for others. Ok i'm sorry for my idiotic posts.

If you want item tournaments there is something you can do! Host them! Hell you can even post them on this site. If that is what you want then go for it. There are others that want that too, so get to work finding locations and brushing up on what you have to do to run a tournament.

The funny thing is, everyone I've told this too has said they couldn't do it, yet I've helped run and have ran tournaments, and a lot of my smash friends (that are competitive) were willing to do the same. If your resolve was that of ours there should be no problem with going through the work to make it happen.

 

[Illyasvel]

But, with the Stage Editor, wouldn't the Stage banning stuff be a lot less of a mess? I mean, can't even see why you're bothering in banning stages at all (not planning on tell you what to do or how to shape your rules, I have no chances to go to tourneys sadly, maybe I'm just suggesting)

Making a clear type of scene (Final Destination?) for Stage Editor with different stuff.. shouldn't it be enough? Not like I know a lot of tourney rules etc, but as far as I know, it must not have the "random" fact... and about Final Smashes, they're supossed to make up for their weaknesses, as I've seen Pit is a bit "weak" (can't judge cause I haven't been to E for All nor I played him yet, just from the gameplays) and that could be a reason of why his FS doesn't require any time to set up (unlike Meta Knight), so I think it wouldn't be so unbalanced... not like I can comment anyway

The point : Stage Creator to save all this fuss, in my opinion. (I can't play tourneys but I enjoy watching them)

 

[00Elf]

BAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Fixed courtesy of anon

 

[Ruggeth]

Tourney rules are for losers anyways. There I said it, I saved you all the effort of saying it.

 

[DraginHikari]

Tourney rules are for losers anyways. There I said it, I saved you all the effort of saying it.

*Sighs* It's comments like that on both sides that turn these topics into 25 page topics at least once a week...

It's kinda getting old really.