I'm an f'ing scrub.

[Mr. G&W]

Lately, I've been having losing streaks when playing For Glory. And I'm not supposed to. Why? Because I signed up for EVO this year, so I have to be a better player than that. At least, to win three matches or more. But, with these losing streaks I've been getting, I'm starting to think, "Why bother? The results will always be the same."

In short, I just suck and I have no excuse for it. All I'm doing is making myself look like an idiot, a poser and a scrub who claims to be an expert at Smash Bros but plays like a horse's butt. I'm not trying to get attention here, but I am asking just this: what am I supposed to do if I am to retain any iota of self-esteem or self-confidence that I have left?

And PLEASE be mature and constructive about it. Any "git gud" posts or other stupid memes used to insult will be reported.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Hmm... You could try going to a local in your area or get a few of your friends together and use them as your practice buddies. You can ask them to perform certain actions that you struggle with regularly and practice different ways to get around them.

You can also pysch yourself up by watching smash interviews on youtubr from the smashboards youtube channel where multiple players who were interviewed talk about using wifi and for glory to help them or it is where they got their start and practice from. It can be like a pep talk.

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Don't worry, sug. I won't say such insensitive and disrespectful things. I have played Smash since 2005 (first had a taste of it since late 2001) but I do not plan on doing competitive play (not a particularly high level at least). Be that as it may, I know enough to get by such as advanced techs, combos, whatever.

First off, do y'all take time to adapt to y'all's opponents? If one tactic ain't getting you anywhere, try something else. Don't be scared to put space between you and your opponent and change your strategies when they aren't working.

Stop thinking about winning all the time; that just stresses y'all out takes the fun out of the game. It takes much patience for one to achieve high skill level. Every loss y'all take is a learning experience. Now, y'all have many resources here to better your gameplay; use them well and practice.

 

[Mr. G&W]

Hmm... You could try going to a local in your area or get a few of your friends together and use them as your practice buddies. You can ask them to perform certain actions that you struggle with regularly and practice different ways to get around them.

You can also pysch yourself up by watching smash interviews on youtubr from the smashboards youtube channel where multiple players who were interviewed talk about using wifi and for glory to help them or it is where they got their start and practice from. It can be like a pep talk.

Any good examples?

Don't worry, sug. I won't say such insensitive and disrespectful things. I have played Smash since 2005 (first had a taste of it since late 2001) but I do not plan on doing competitive play (not a particularly high level at least). Be that as it may, I know enough to get by such as advanced techs, combos, whatever.

First off, do y'all take time to adapt to y'all's opponents? If one tactic ain't getting you anywhere, try something else. Don't be scared to put space between you and your opponent and change your strategies when they aren't working.

Stop thinking about winning all the time; that just stresses y'all out takes the fun out of the game. It takes much patience for one to achieve high skill level. Every loss y'all take is a learning experience. Now, y'all have many resources here to better your gameplay; use them well and practice.

You know, I think my problem is my strategy gets pretty stale and readable after a while. Plus, I have the unfortunate habit of rolling too much, though I've tried to work on that by doing some jumps, nairs and bairs (since Mario and Mr. Game & Watch are my mains). Unfortunately, however, I also suffer from a lack of patience, which ends up getting me hit. It's even worse when you lose to spammers, salty trolls who taunt for beating you, and overall douchebags who seem to like to bully people by cheesing and taunting. Losing to those kinds of people makes me feel all the more embarrassed. I know I shouldn't let it, but it gets frustrating after losing enough matches. Not to come off as arrogant or egotistical, but I guess one reason I do let it is because I feel like my pride as someone who's played Smash games since 1999 is left wounded.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Have you tried visiting the game and eatch discord for help?

 

[Mr. G&W]

Unfortunately, I don't have Discord. But, maybe I should ask for some sparring buddies?

 

[Cypher76]

I'm in a similar place myself, man. I used to play Smash64/Melee back in the day, but I just recently started getting into Sm4sh a few months ago, so I'm obviously pretty late to the party.

I am historically a very competitive gamer and I'm generally pretty good at picking games up very quickly, this has been siginificantly more of a challenge than compared to how I usually pick up games -- and I heck I thought DOTA was hard before, but that one actually happened pretty fast for me since I was absorbing knowledge & info constantly. Smash has proven much harder to pick up since I don't have much of a history with fighters, and it just takes so much longer to really improve on my reaction times, muscle memory for inputs, etc.

I'd recently gotten to the point where I can consistently beat the lvl 9 CPU handily, so I started trying my hand at For Glory. I know all the things people say about that mode and how it doesn't matter etc -- but I went in and I got bodied, so hard. Like I was not only just getting repeatedly 2-stocked, but I was struggling to even damage my opponents at all. My opponents always seemed to be a step ahead of me, and the fact that I knew that were probably actually scrubs made it that much worse for me. I felt totally humbled, destroyed, and felt like I was back at square one.

While I'm obviously not some sort of top player who can simply give you a list of things to do to succeed, I just wanted to share my own thought processes with you. You see, I was THIS close to completely giving up, and forgetting about it all. But I also realized that not every accomplished person was great at what they did right away. Talent gets you nowhere in this world -- it's all about the work you're willing to put in. Derek Jeter and Tom Brady were both overlooked when they were younger and getting drafted, but they obviously didn't give up in the face of adversity, and look where they are today. Michael Jordan was once cut from his high school basketball team. He went home and cried, wanted to give up, but he instead found a way to use the things he learned from his past failures to fuel his future success.

Sorry for the sports for the references and the fact that my response lacks a directly concrete answer, I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in how you're feeling. The more I feel farther away and like I want to give up, the more I think about how much better it will feel if I can improve and get past this phase. I don't know about you, but I'll be watching and learning everything about my characters & this game that I can; watching the pros so I can learn what makes them successful, slowing down replays on YouTube to notice details I would have missed, practicing combos in training until their execution come second nature to me, etc. It's going to be a long road to get to where I'm hoping I will, but that's also part of the beauty of it, and that motivates me to keep going.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

You can get discord on your phone or use it on your computer. It has a huge player base of smashers that you can play online with, if you are interested that is. http://smashcords.com/smash_4/

 

[Mr. G&W]

I might look into that. Though I can also try to check back for notes to talk about when to spar on 3DS or Wii U for 30-90 minutes a day or so.

 

[Hippieslayer]

You've got a problem with entitlement.

Find people offine that are better than you and train with them and stop being upset because you aren't as good as you feel you should be. Its obvious from the OP you have issues controlling your emotions while playing, learn to keep calm irregardless, dont expect or wish for things to go a certain way, just play your best. Stop reacting to your own failures as if though they were cosmic injustices, doing things such as basking in bitterness, thinking about how hopeless things are, and making pointless threads wont help you. Basically: Get over yourself and practice offline.

Your attitude is far more pathetic than that of the "spammers" and "salty trolls" and what not. If I faced you in tourney and you suicided I would have taunted you and I would have spammed save replay afterwards and you would have been upset and then you would have played worse because of it and if that caused you to lose you would've deserved it and I would have deserved the win.

You have to learn to hyperfocus on the game without going into an emotionally vulnerable state where every setback gets to you personally and you havent learned that. You should learn that, because its not fun being upset. And if you want to learn then stop thinking you should "be gud" and "git gut" or if you cant find something else to spend time on if your self perceived lack of progress annoys you so.

 

[Mr. G&W]

Entitlement? No. Problem with controlling emotions? You can say that again. Days ago, I posted that out of frustration and anxiety, more than anything else.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Entitlement? No. Problem with controlling emotions? You can say that again. Days ago, I posted that out of frustration and anxiety, more than anything else.

Why would you be upset about not doing as good as you want to if not because you feel that the magnitude of your desire to win and the effort you've put into getting better means you should be doing better, that you deserve to be better? Pretty much all salty frustrated players have underlying entitlement issues. Even those who engage in self degradation by calling themselves frauds and failures and stuff.

Maybe calling it entitlement is a little mean, you could also call it expecting too much of yourself. It also sounds like your self image, or identity rests quite a bit on your knowledge of- and ability to play smash, so how is life besides smash treating you social status wise? If you feel like a loser in general that can make it so that smash matters more to you than it should which will make smash related setbacks harder to handle than they should be.

No need to bother answering, I'm going on intuition here and maybe I'm way off but when I look at the issues you describe in combination with the tone -and how you've signed up for EVO despite not being ready as if though the act of signing up would make you better automatically through some magical form of external validation- I'm seeing underlying psychological issues having to do with how you feel about yourself. 32 is a little bit too old to throw yourself into despair over not doing good at smash unless something more is amiss.

 

[Mr. G&W]

I didn't mention EVO to impress anyone. I wasn't looking for "external validation." I initially started going to EVO every year to see if I had what it took to take on foreign players in person, and if I could break my personal record of two won matches in the qualifying pools. Heck, if I were as cocky as you must think I am, I wouldn't have even posted this thread, let alone ask for advice or pointers.

It's true that I do expect too much of myself. I try not to lose my cool; but, most times, it blows up in my face, especially if I find that the guy I'm playing with is a troll. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell if someone is being a troll or not unless you can identify certain gestures; especially taunting after every KO. There is a difference between being a hardcore player, and being a bully.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

They could also be taunting after every KO as a mindgame. To tick you off and make you play worse, some players use it as a strategy, there is a guy in my region who goes overboard with taunts and teabags after kills or when he sends you flying to the other side of the screen.

 

[Hippieslayer]

I didn't mention EVO to impress anyone. I wasn't looking for "external validation." I initially started going to EVO every year to see if I had what it took to take on foreign players in person, and if I could break my personal record of two won matches in the qualifying pools. Heck, if I were as cocky as you must think I am, I wouldn't have even posted this thread, let alone ask for advice or pointers.

It's true that I do expect too much of myself. I try not to lose my cool; but, most times, it blows up in my face, especially if I find that the guy I'm playing with is a troll. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell if someone is being a troll or not unless you can identify certain gestures; especially taunting after every KO. There is a difference between being a hardcore player, and being a bully.

I don't think you are cocky at all. Why are you even trying to tell out trolls though? Waste of time and detrimental to your progress. Just identify playstyles and adapt. Yes certain lame stuff works online which doesnt work offline, and naturally people will exploit said stuff, thats how the world works, not just in smash bros, but like universally everywhere. Stop caring so much about the motives and moral character of other players unless its to figure out how to beat them. These are obviously ingrained mental habits of yours, but unless you strive to be a masochist you should deal with them because then you might enjoy smashing a lot more.

You gotta learn to identify anger and frustration when its just brewing so that you can quell it before it takes over your being, thats how you do it. By becoming aware of thought patterns and emotions as they occur in the moment you can learn to control them.

Fact remains: trolling is as valid a strategy as any, its on you for not being able to deal with it, not on the trolls for doing it

 

[Mr. G&W]

They could also be taunting after every KO as a mindgame. To tick you off and make you play worse, some players use it as a strategy, there is a guy in my region who goes overboard with taunts and teabags after kills or when he sends you flying to the other side of the screen.

I guess some guys like to do that, but I don't. I don't taunt unless provoked. I can't even stand to watch others taunt in replays I watch via Replay Channel or Spectate Mode because, to me, it shows bad sportsmanship. I don't think it's cool to make people mad.

I don't think you are cocky at all. Why are you even trying to tell out trolls though? Waste of time and detrimental to your progress. Just identify playstyles and adapt. Yes certain lame stuff works online which doesnt work offline, and naturally people will exploit said stuff, thats how the world works, not just in smash bros, but like universally everywhere. Stop caring so much about the motives and moral character of other players unless its to figure out how to beat them. These are obviously ingrained mental habits of yours, but unless you strive to be a masochist you should deal with them because then you might enjoy smashing a lot more.

You gotta learn to identify anger and frustration when its just brewing so that you can quell it before it takes over your being, thats how you do it. By becoming aware of thought patterns and emotions as they occur in the moment you can learn to control them.

Fact remains: trolling is as valid a strategy as any, its on you for not being able to deal with it, not on the trolls for doing it

Yeah, I don't even know why I said you would think of me as cocky; half-conscious thought, I guess. That aside, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I've struggled with that, and I suppose it's my anxiety and my fear of failure that cause me to go back to thinking more negatively, in addition to how easily frustrated I get.

Maybe, you think trolling is valid; but, I don't. If you want my opinion, I say it's a display of poor sportsmanship and douchebaggery. It's like someone's playing "Monkey in the middle" with you as the runt with no chance of ever winning the game. I still think trolling is bullying, and I still think it is wrong. Not to mention discouraging; if you taunt and troll all the time, you may as well say to your opponent, "Give up, loser. You're just gonna look stupid anyway." Same reason I think saying "git gud" is like saying "Play better, idiot." But, again, that's just my own opinion.

 

[Hippieslayer]

In any game where there is a constant mental battle going on between players there is much to be gained from getting your opponent mentally tilted and a lot to lose from getting tilted by your opponent. So naturally trolling, taunting and otherwise being annoying are going to be valid tactics because those are possible ways to induce tilt. Weaknesses will be exploited in a competitive setting and a lot of people are weak against trolling and the like so there's nothing to be done about it. But you can learn to be immune to that ****, if you cant be tilted cause you dont give a **** about stupid crap like trolling there's no point in trolling you either. You don't have to like it, you can keep on considering it poor sportsmanship and douchebaggery, but be less passionate about it, don't let em get ya, for your own sake.

You seem like a nice guy, and on a basic level I agree with you that trolling is dumb and people should be able to compete and still be respectful towards each other etc, unfortunately it just doesn't work that way and there's nothing I can do about it. Anyway I sympathize with you, I used to get into rage mode constantly when I was playing smash a few years ago and it wasn't fun it was draining as hell, almost ruined the natural funniness of the game for me lol.

 

[Mr. G&W]

Unfortunately, you're right. You've heard of "I Hate Everything" on YouTube, right? And the whole Derek Savage controversy? In dealing with Savage, IHE said he'd like to change people but admitted that he couldn't. And by people, I meant trying to change Savage's attitude because Savage couldn't take criticism.

(At the risk of further going off-topic, here are these to show you what I mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoTZZYm2HZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0qoD3viXL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXVkcWbvnN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzXSQ5f08sA)

Other than that, I'm glad you understand, at least. We have our own ways of playing, and we unfortunately cannot change others' ways.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Maybe this can help?

Speaking of trolling, recently on TBS cable television, a Street Fighter 5 tourney was broadcasted live on tv and on twitch for the whole month of May. There was a player who teabagged a ton and taunted a lot during one day of the event and the commentators commented that it was the opponent's birthday to boot at that. I also remember not to long ago there was almost a ban on teabagging at a huge Killer Instinct tournament and they were considering penalizing players if I recall correctly but it was reconsidered and dropped.

 

[Mr. G&W]

It does help a good deal, actually. I have played fighting games of different kinds, but not quite that way; I didn't realize how common these behaviors really are in live and e-sports. It also makes it a bit easier to not take things personally. I was trolled, harassed and even libeled online a few years ago because of a misunderstanding I'd much sooner forget. (That probably would help explain things further.)

 

[Captain Phobos]

Number one thing I would recommend is finding a training buddy. I used to be a consistently bad player until I started fighting with one of my friends that had been playing Smash for several years at the time. That's how I got good anyway.

 

[Mr. G&W]

I do have at least one friend I meet on a regular basis, as we go to the same work place. Aside from that, you're right. One guy has PM'd me about matches recently, though.

 

[Mr. G&W]

Maybe this can help?

Speaking of trolling, recently on TBS cable television, a Street Fighter 5 tourney was broadcasted live on tv and on twitch for the whole month of May. There was a player who teabagged a ton and taunted a lot during one day of the event and the commentators commented that it was the opponent's birthday to boot at that. I also remember not to long ago there was almost a ban on teabagging at a huge Killer Instinct tournament and they were considering penalizing players if I recall correctly but it was reconsidered and dropped.

I've actually taken this video to heart. Nowadays, I do use taunting and teabagging, mostly if my opponent does first. I don't like to do so, but I use it as a means of psychological warfare or, otherwise, a distraction.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Nice man. Maybe we could play sometime. ****ing cool cat btw lol.

Sometimes when I lose online I hurl insults at my opponent for their enjoyment. Cause I personally think its pretty fun being called names by salty inferior players, so I figured other ppl probably like it as well. Thus when I get two stocked I like to write things like "spammernoob", "noskillgay" or "flaccid phallus" even tho im not really salt. I consider it a form of philanthropism.

 

[Nobie]

One of the reasons For Glory "doesn't matter" is that it encourages certain habits and strategies for winning that pretty much only work on For Glory (and to a lesser extent on online ladders). The extra bit of lag common to FG changes how you play the game, and things that normally wouldn't work in an offline setting will be an absolute pain to overcome online. To actually be able to defeat this reliably means having such solid fundamentals that your predictive powers (as opposed to your reactive ones) must be sharp and honed with experience, and even then that's not a guarantee. You may have seen ZeRo lose to For Glory Yoshis in the past, and if it can happen to him it can happen to anyone.

It can be hard to keep this in mind, I know. Believe me, I know what it's like to rage at a For Glory loss, especially due to lag. You start to question whether you ever made any progress at all.

Self-esteem is a tricky thing, as is tying it to how well you perform in Smash Bros. If you feel your ego is a bit fragile, then you should at the very least attend some Smash Fests. You might lose to players over and over, but as long as you're not keeping score and no one else is, who cares? Free yourself from the numbers. Use every match as a learning experience. If you feel yourself panicking, realize that this is useful information, because something must have caused it. Was it you being unfamiliar with the opponent's character? Was it you expecting something to work 100% of the time but it turns out that a smart opponent can avoid it? Was it simply rust or being slow to remember how to fight out of a certain situation? Was it not knowing how to DI a move?

Let me quote something from Street Fighter player Daigo to see if it can help:

Tournaments are a playground for people who practice for growth. It’s where they show off their achievements. Once I made that realization, I finally started making continued growth my goal, rather than winning. Games enrich my life by allowing me to grow as an individual, and that’s what motivates me to keep on going.

See if you can treat Smash less as a need for validation and more as an opportunity to improve yourself.

 

[Lucky13the2nd]

This is some cool stuff, y'all. Good to see people can be civilized when discussing touchy topics instead of "gettin triggered."
Anywho, now for my (month-late) question: As someone with no access whatsoever to tournaments and essentially no companions in smash (yay Colorado smash), but I still have my heart set on big-time smash, what can I do? Hopefully someone sees this. The reason I post this here is because I was not too long ago in the same situation as Mr g&w.

 

[Hippieslayer]

This is some cool stuff, y'all. Good to see people can be civilized when discussing touchy topics instead of "gettin triggered."
Anywho, now for my (month-late) question: As someone with no access whatsoever to tournaments and essentially no companions in smash (yay Colorado smash), but I still have my heart set on big-time smash, what can I do? Hopefully someone sees this. The reason I post this here is because I was not too long ago in the same situation as Mr g&w.

Get offline playpartners by extensively and tirelessly searching for them online as well via your rl social circle and then contacting them, or move.

 

[FSLink]

Maybe, you think trolling is valid; but, I don't. If you want my opinion, I say it's a display of poor sportsmanship and douchebaggery. It's like someone's playing "Monkey in the middle" with you as the runt with no chance of ever winning the game. I still think trolling is bullying, and I still think it is wrong. Not to mention discouraging; if you taunt and troll all the time, you may as well say to your opponent, "Give up, loser. You're just gonna look stupid anyway." Same reason I think saying "git gud" is like saying "Play better, idiot." But, again, that's just my own opinion.

I don't think most people would disagree. Taunting is usually considered rude in most fighting games. But at the end of the day, it does not matter if you think it's wrong. If it gets to you, you're at a disadvantage when you're playing. People will use the outside "mental" game in addition to the in-game mental game. It's something you have to learn to deal with, especially at bigger events like EVO where you have a bigger crowd of spectators, potential for larger amounts of people heckling you (usually not maliciously, sometimes they just want to cheer for their friend, so naturally they'll root against you).

If you don't learn how to deal with the mental battle, you'll have a hard time.

Personally I'd suggest going to more local events to get more used to different types of players, both friendly and not so friendly. This will also build up experience where you can make sure you can do your bnbs in higher stress situations, as well as find potentially training partners to identify mistakes on your gameplay. Sometimes it's not so evident what you're messing up even if you feel like you're playing "correctly".

 

[A Scrub]

.




<------------ Me too.

 

[Deleted member]

I may be late to the discussion but take advice from a senior citizen such as myself. I've heard of Smash since late 2001 and I thought I wouldn't like it. But I sat down for hours on end and enjoyed it. It wasn't until Melee I was really hooked. Then Brawl was released and I wanted to improve. That's when I frequented SSBWiki to learn about advanced techniques. Before 2010 came to a close, I bought and played Brawl and put these techs into action. Finally, when Smash 4 came out I really got to work on ATs and studied character's frame data. Now, I'm nowhere close to tournament-level myself but believe me I can get by with a textbook knowledge of advanced techs and frame data.

Don't forget that each and everyone of us here have started out as beginners. We slowly gain knowledge and experience to learn the skills necessary to play the game. Now, the resources on these forums are indispensable to helping you improve. You can read guides on your character, peruse the character forums to get insight from other players, post match videos you participated in so we can critique you and tell you where to improve. Earlier this year, a site called Smashvods opened. That's a place I frequent so I can see my girls in action and deviate from there. Also, SmashWiki can provide information about advanced techniques though there are guides on here about that.

I know, it's a mountain of information but just take it one step at a time. It takes time to improve at something. Big names like ZeRo, Mew2King, Salem, Nairo started off as beginners but they practiced immensely to get to where they are today. It's not just fighting games; this applies to any activity. My favorite activity is cooking, which I starting learning back in late 1969. My skills were poor when I started out but I got better as I worked at it. I consider my skill level to be on the high side of the scale.

I don't know if anyone here thought about it, but I listen to gospel, which I think this kind of music does a top-notch job of giving the best pep talk. But apparently, this is what I do for encouragement. That said, if you want to improve, winning should not be your priority but spending a significant amount of time practicing and using the resources laid out before you. Now, losing is a part of this process. You can't get around it. Every loss is a learning experience, you know. And most importantly, just enjoy yourself. If you aren't, then what's the point of playing, right?

git gud boy

This advice is neither helpful nor encouraging for anyone here.

 

[Deleted member]

I dont see why you need to know frame data in order to play good, or match-ups (which arent 100% accurate anyway).

This might not be of significance to you, but I'm quite certain this is vital and indispensable information on the road to improvement. I don't know about you, but throwing out unsafe **** (pardon the expletive, kids) such as (but not limited to) 's or 's or 's forward-smash fifteen times in a row is not real bright. Not to mention this is helpful for constructing combos. You know what's fast enough to connect before the opponent can respond to it. You know how big or small the window is to follow up with another move. And I do believe matchup study is quite important since everyone has their share of weaknesses that can be exploited, and that matchup conditions can change from one stage to another.

I say just play naturally trying your best to win. Thats it. You will learn things yourself, like using shield is good at certain moments.

I say good luck with that. But the learning experience will go a lot smoother if one asks advice from other players, reading guides, and watching them play.

And to me grab is completely useless. But everyone has their own way to play. I just never find a use for it

Granted, not all characters have good grabs. But I play as secondaries in Melee and Brawl and I know that their grab, while relatively short-ranged, is quite an important tool to employ. Without this, they're nothing more than middle-tier. But, hey, do what you want though you may be limiting the kill power of some characters (e.g. ).

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

No. Frame data doesnt matter. Maybe you mean something else by saying frame data and I just dont understand you? But as far as I know, frame data doesnt matter.

Match ups dont matter. And the reason is because they're probaley not that accurate. What are match-ups based off? As far as I know they're probaley based on people playing against each other, and thats not a good way to determine match-ups, because some of it is just based off a person's skill level.

I pretty much learned to play myself. All you gotta have is practice.

Nah. Useless

Match-up lists actually do reflect human skill.

> Being this ignorant

You're well on your way out the door again.

 

[Deleted member]

No. Frame data doesnt matter. Maybe you mean something else by saying frame data and I just dont understand you? But as far as I know, frame data doesnt matter.

Match ups dont matter. And the reason is because they're probaley not that accurate. What are match-ups based off? As far as I know they're probaley based on people playing against each other, and thats not a good way to determine match-ups, because some of it is just based off a person's skill level.

I pretty much learned to play myself. All you gotta have is practice.

Nah. Useless

Have it your way, sweetie. Anyone else here will tell you the same thing I had told you. Mark my words, studying frame data/matchups could potentially save you from something tragic like being caught in 's zero-death combo. But whatever...

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Who needs KNOWLEDGE when you have SKILL

*button mash*

 

[Deleted member]

Im out the door cause I have a different opinion than you? lol your a idiot

Thats what IM SAYING YOU FOOL

Match ups dont matter because one of the factors in determining match-ups, is SKILL, and everybody has different skill levels, which means it wont be accurate. Just accurate based on the peopl who played with different skill levels.

Means nothing. Thats why match-ups are pointless

---

Knowledge of what? Why do you need the most useless knowledge to play a game?


Shizuka Kawai said: ↑
"Have it your way, sweetie. Anyone else here will tell you the same thing I had told you. Mark my words, studying frame data/matchups could potentially save you from something tragic like being caught in 's zero-death combo. But whatever..."


Okay. Then everybody is doing it wrong. lol

Thank you anyway, but I wont get stuck cause Im not a nub

And I suppose the next thing you'll say is that tiers are pointless, too. Look, I may not play this game on a competitive, professional level but I wouldn't have improved without the cornucopia of knowledge on these forums or SmashWiki.

But whatever. I have nothing more to say to you. Just go ahead and continue playing the way you do. At the end of the day it has no effect on the rest of us. To me, enjoying myself and learning about the game's more complex nuances matters more than winning.

 

[origamiscienceguy]

I don't want to sound rude, but if you want to advance in the scene, you need to take other people's advice, and quit complaining every time something doesn't go your way. Your posts up to this point have shown a crippling ignorance about how this game works, and covering your ears when people try to help you is only going to exacerbate the problem.

 

[Pyrover]

You... really think Metaknight in Brawl wasn't the best character? The single most mobile character, with massive priority and hitboxes, fantastic recovery options, the best edge guarding tools, the most difficult to beat stall tactics, the best matchup spread in the game, and an entire moveset that is virtually unpunishable, wasn't the best character? You think that honor belonged to Ike, a character with slow, predictable options, had frame data, poor recovery, and no real offensive presence besides big, slow attacks that were painful if they somehow hit?

Well, play as you see fit. Not everybody needs to care about the competitive scene after all. Just remember that feeling things out and solo practice can only take you so far. We have things like tier lists and matchups charts so that we can share experiences until things are accurate. We usually won't get it right the first time, but once things are figured out, all that information is FAR from useless.

Matchups are written assuming equal skill levels. Obviously a good matchup won't help if you're a blatantly worse player than your opponent. Skill is certainly king, but knowing how things work is a skill.

 

[flamer180]

You... really think Metaknight in Brawl wasn't the best character?..."

He wasnt. He was just the most hyped character. Its called a illusion.

And people bought into it.

Mobile as in what? Ike has really good priority.

Recovery isnt the most single important thing in the game lol Sure its important to have at least a decent recovery, but thats about it. You dont have to have the best recovery in order to be the winner.

Ike has a decent recovery, and I play just fine with him. Ike's recovery never made me lose the game lol Thats not a determining factor.

I dont know what edge guard is because I dont get into all the techniques. Stall doesnt matter to me. You can stall as much as you want.

Match up doesnt matter. Innacurate.

"Virtually Unpunishable" There you go with your hype again lol I could say the same about Ike. Great over-A. Powerful hit my boy.

Ike isnt slow. Ganondorf is slow. King dedede is slow. Bowser is slow. Ike isnt.

By the way. Every character has predictable moves once you get used to them. So your argument there is kinda pointless.

I think your describing bowser lol Bowser is way too easy of a target.

Experiences with different range of skill levels are not accurate. Its pretty useless lol


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@origamiscienceguy

You talking to me?

Why does it matter if I know more, if I'm better than you? lol

Everything I have been saying is true. Take that as "ignorant" if you wish lol

Ignore this if you arent talking to me

 

[Nemesis561]

Guys, don't feed the troll. This same poster used to post the same nonsense a while ago on these forums, he's literally repeating the same exact stuff. He's looking to get a raise out of people, don't bother giving him the attention

 

[HerbsnSpices910]

I don't think he's trolling. I just think he's super salty that his main will never, ever be considered higher than a lower mid-tier, so he hides under this thin veil of "frame data, matchups and tier lists mean nothing".

It's a shame really - I'm all about character diversity and balance as well. But let's be real - there's a reason why 3-4 Bayos or Clouds in tourney top 8s is a thing, yet making it there with Jigglypuff is damn near impossible. It's nothing to do with "illusions" or being "in make believe land".

The reality is that this game, while more balanced now than its predecessors, is still unbalanced and many characters are just inferior to the higher tiers if you're playing against competent opponents. Not to say that it's impossible. It's just super unlikely.

But there's no arguing that Meta Knight wrecks Ike (and pretty much every other character) in Brawl.