Ike vs. Projectile Spam! Wat do?

[CFL_Outsider]

Hey guys, I'm relatively new to the competitive scene and, as a noob in every fighting game does, I'm having trouble with projectiles. I cannot deal with being trapped in my shield just taking whatever they're shooting/throwing to the face.Flustered because I don't know what options I have. In particular I'd like to know what I can do against Samus.

In the two PM tournaments I've entered I lost to the same Samus. He was no slouch of a player and the difference in skill was obvious, but in the end I lost to the missiles. I just couldn't close the distance.

Is there anything I can do besides shielding the missiles and slowly closing the distance?
In a matchup against any zoney character, what can I do to make my approaches less predictable?
What can Ike do to punish players that're neutralizing QD with projectiles?

 

[Commander]

Nair through the shields. You can break a missile and hit Samus in the same nair if you are close enough.

Do a bunch of different approaches and try to minimize your habits.

Close the distance with powershields>wavedash and nair through projectiles.

 

[CFL_Outsider]

Nair through the shields. You can break a missile and hit Samus in the same nair if you are close enough.

Do a bunch of different approaches and try to minimize your habits.

Close the distance with powershields>wavedash and nair through projectiles.

Thanks! Are there only certain projectiles Ike can nair through or is there a list of that somewhere?

 

[Commander]

Any projectile that doesn't have transcendent hitboxes. Fox and Falco's laser's can't be nair'd through because they have transcendent hitboxes.

 

[Dralarco]

Don't you think Down + B can do something?

 

[Commander]

Counter can work under certain circumstances, but it has a lot of la and if you don't hit the opponent with the attack you don't really get into any better position.

 

[Dralarco]

Counter can be a options back on stage if their is projectile hitting you like Mario's fireball or Fox/Falco's lasers.

 

[Commander]

If you miss with the counter hit you will just be hit back off. Counter is extremely situational. It would be better to just take the hit of the projectile rather than counter. For reference, both Marth and Ike have their counter start on frame 6, yet you rarely ever see high level Marth's(or Ike's) counter to get around projectiles. The only time it is good is against opponents who chase their own projectiles to try to get in on you, but high level opponents don't usually fall for that kind of stuff.

 

[Dralarco]

If you miss with the counter hit you will just be hit back off. Counter is extremely situational. It would be better to just take the hit of the projectile rather than counter. For reference, both Marth and Ike have their counter start on frame 6, yet you rarely ever see high level Marth's(or Ike's) counter to get around projectiles. The only time it is good is against opponents who chase their own projectiles to try to get in on you, but high level opponents don't usually fall for that kind of stuff.

I mean counter as you said is good to use sometimes, but the counter is slow.

 

[BushidoBoyd]

I've had to deal with a lot of projectiles, Samus probably being the most annoying, since hers can actually kill you if one stray missile hits you, unlike fox and falco lasers, and other things like Lucas' ice and Ness' fire. As someone said before, it might be a good idea to counter if your opponent is using projectiles to cover their approaches.

Now in this case, hopefully you aren't picking FD against Samus, that would imho be a great counter pick against ike, considering you literally have like 0 way to escape her missile barrage, but assuming you are on a stage with platforms, just change levels (on a platform to on the floor and vice versa) to avoid her projectiles all while approaching, you'll want to be very careful though, especially if she has her neutral B fully charged. THis is because she could fire double missiles below by land cancelling, and quickly jump and fire her neutral b to anticipate your jump to a higher level. The way i approach this is to (as someone else said before) shield each missile, powershield if you have the timing, and wavedash out of shield to continue your approach. Eventually you'll force her into the corner and you can poke her and literally cut through her missiles with short hop nair and forward tilt. Just slowly and carefully close in on samus and force her into the corner by carefully jumping over missiles, shielding them, and switching levels. Just be prepared to execute a well timed air dodge if she tries to catch you off guard with a fully charged missile blast while you're airborne.

 

[Sylarius]

For reference, both Marth and Ike have their counter start on frame 6, yet you rarely ever see high level Marth's(or Ike's) counter to get around projectiles. The only time it is good is against opponents who chase their own projectiles to try to get in on you, but high level opponents don't usually fall for that kind of stuff.

Do they really? Ike's was slower in Brawl, I thought it was also slower in PM. News to me if true.

 

[Commander]

Yeah. You can check the old 3.02 frame data. Ike had very few things changed over the recent patches and I think the only thing changed in frame data over the course of them is IASA frames on dtilt and charging frames for QD. You can also check me in debug mode.

The difference is that Ike's counter window ends at about frame 23 and Marth's goes till like frame 30 or something. Still better than Roy's counter which starts frame 8 and ends frame 20 making it both the slowest and shortest counter window.

 

[BushidoBoyd]

Something really cool i learned against samus is that you can literally JAB her missiles. Just make sure you time it right, but it's a pretty good way to blow them up without taking damage with relatively low end-lag. Also, powershield > WD OOS is good, and like they said, Nair through projectiles is SOOOO good, especially if you hit the opponent in the same swing. I also remember hearing Samus loses the matchup to Ike pretty handily, sounds like there was a definite skill gap between you and your opponent.