Ike Frame Data *Hopefully sticky one day

[niCkHatHito]

Hey all, begun to unleash my full nerd and start labbing some data for Ike's bread and butter combos. For whatever reason I started with data based on up throw + aerials, but plan to expand this in the future to other relevant combos for Ike.
https://imgur.com/a/LZt243V

Wanted to put this out as a teaser and see if anyone would be interested in further information of this nature (i.e. the nair combos, down throw combos, dtilts, and maybe some other things we can find in labbing out the man who fights for his friends).

In the imgur link is all the info I've compiled thus far, I'll see if I can format in this editor or paste to gsheets or w/e - will ultimately find what is most convenient as we continue labbing... but imgur for now.

As for reading the data:
1. All combos are related to upthrow + an aerial. Grouped by short hop aerials, full hop aerials, and then pivot short hop aerials and lastly pivot full hop aerials.
2. COMBO will read YES if it can chain into a TRUE COMBO (in training vs. Chrom, no DI)
3. REQUIRE will state the exact percents for which the combo will remain TRUE, with start and end ranges.
4. For all of the short hop combos, I've used the short hop shortcut (or in technical terms, threw out the short hop aerial as fast as possible frame perfect). Because of this, I have not tinkered with throwing out aerials late out of the short hop, which may affect some of the REQUIRED percent ranges for true combo (i.e., Ike may have more potential to his short hop game).
5. For all of the full hops, I've labbed out the REQUIRED % based on what frame your throw out your aerial. For reference, Frame 1 refers to the earliest possible frame you can input an attack aerial after confirming a full hop. For all those unclear on some of the frames surrounding these requirements, we have: Jump Squat Animation 3 Frames. Jump Button must be pressed for the entirety of the jump squat animation + 1 (so 4 frames). On the 4th frame (the instant your character first leaves the ground), is the earliest frame at which you can input an aerial attack and continue your full hop. This frame is what I deemed as Frame 1 for Full Hops.
6. For all of the pivot full hops, I've done the same above except also assumed the 2 frame minimum that is required for a perfect pivot. So now instead of the frame 4 being the start point from above, it's 4+2 = 6 is the start point (this is frame 1 in this case). These are hard as hell to do in real time, but they exist and are actually pretty relevant since they work with BAIR, one of Ike's best moves for killing. I also got lazy here in labbing out the frame 2 and 3 options for bair, but they exist and again, are actually important to know... I'll finish this up next.

I'm sure I'm missing a few notes so please ask questions while checking everything out, and I'll try to continue and update with additional tables for Down Throw Combos, Nair Combos, and Dtilts, as those seem to be the most relevant to Ike.

Cheers all - Hoping to make a thing out of this and get some good data for Ike sticked :D!

 

[san.]

Hey, this is a nice endeavor, but please keep in mind that the training mode counter is highly inaccurate for what is considered an inescapable combo. I definitely recommend using another controller to hold air dodge or jump to ensure that a combo is true.

For instance, comboing off uthrow is a relatively small % window with primarily fair only. You NEED to use this method or you'll get some misleading results, unfortunately.

 

[niCkHatHito]

Hey san. thanks for response, can you elaborate on that? In training I would ensure that the throw (2-hit) would combo into the 3rd hit of whichever aerial for 3 hit combo. And if it wasn't 3 hit (and only 2) it wasn't a true combo. I.e Up-Throw Fullhop Fair only has about 2 frames of lee-way, I agree it's definitely not an easy combo persay.

But this doesn't account for any player DI, which could make some of the tighter windows either a. even frame tighter, b. require tracking with the left stick to follow or c. make a true combo no longer true by DI-ing far away enough for the tight combos.

All that said, I believe player input shouldn't matter for any combos that are true outside of DI... so not sure I understand what difference having player controlled target dummy mashing jump or dodge would do vs. confirming whether or not the combo reads as true hit?

Does player input actually increase the frame by which you come out of hit stun?

 

[niCkHatHito]

Testing everything here...

Ike Up Throw on a 20% Chrom, from first frame of Up throwing beginning to Chrom hitting floor is 85 frames till Chrom touches the floor again if no one does anything. Now with buttons pressed:

1. Frames 0-49 Ike is stuck in the throwing up animation (chrom stuck getting thrown up), and on frame 50 you can do another input. In this case I did jump.
2. Frame 50 begins the jump squat animation, I'm opting to shorthop Fair here. Jump buffers for frames 50, 51, 52 and then frame 53 ike is in the first frame of being in the air.
3. Frames 53-62 Ike winds up the Fair animation and on Frame 63 the fair connects to form a 3 hit combo, (2 hits prior from the up throw).

Chrom's mashed/buffered input is first received on Frame 60 for air dodge, and it looks like both directional air dodge away and stationary air dodge actually successfully dodge uthrow + sHop perfect frame Fair at 20%, despite the combo meter counting it as a "true combo". Looks like you are right! I'll have to continue to check this out with these options in mind!

 

[niCkHatHito]

Well definitely going to have to redo this, but thinking it'll still be of value so long as I accurately account for as-fast-as-possible dodge inputs as you've suggested. For example, I've noticed that for upthrow, there are no true combos into shorthop nair at any % when player is dodging as soon as possible, despite my original test (with CPU on 'Do Nothing') leading you to believe you can combo into it at 11% - 53% by virtue of the combo meter reading it as "true".

More useful however, upthrow into Fair is a true combo even with perfect buffered dodge attempts (No DI) with percents 27% - 85% (for perspective, my original data without dodging, would lead you to believe it's 11% - 85%. These original numbers are somewhat useful because it at least lets you know you can actually hit the target in this range - but realistically it's more in tech chase territory vs. a 'true combo' as the window from 11% - 26% can be dodged, and potentially trumped by frame fast attacks or other options)

I'm also updating my sheet to include % values for basic DI (Away, Towards, Up, Down) for now and will report back with a few findings when I get back to the lab