Ike Data Compilation. [Hitbox Visuals Complete!]

[Nidtendofreak]

Requesting testing on:

Ledge Grab Release -> SHDair on Wario. I got it to land several times, and it would send him to his death at VERY low %s. I just don't know if it works from a frame point of view.

And:

"Jab Walking": By using C-tilt and hitting it the same way you would for Nair, you can walk forward and repeatedly use the first jab. I believe this can be a true combo, and would combo into grab releases, which would mean Wario getting jabbed once equals instant death on most stages (assuming best case scenario). I tried it and again, it looks like it would work from my end. Ike has just the right speed (fastest walk is almost too fast, Wario keeps almost landing behind Ike), but I can't test with opponents DIing. I doubt it will truly work all the way across stages with DI, but it can't hurt to be checked.

 

[Kirk]

Ledge Grab Release -> SHDair on Wario. I got it to land several times, and it would send him to his death at VERY low %s. I just don't know if it works from a frame point of view.

No aerials other than Bair 'combo' from a grab release. They are just too slow.

"Jab Walking": By using C-tilt and hitting it the same way you would for Nair, you can walk forward and repeatedly use the first jab. I believe this can be a true combo, and would combo into grab releases, which would mean Wario getting jabbed once equals instant death on most stages (assuming best case scenario). I tried it and again, it looks like it would work from my end. Ike has just the right speed (fastest walk is almost too fast, Wario keeps almost landing behind Ike), but I can't test with opponents DIing. I doubt it will truly work all the way across stages with DI, but it can't hurt to be checked.

This I've never done myself, as I have never used tilt stick. In any event, SDI will make short work of any jab --> jab combos.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Dang it. It really looked like the Dair one worked.....and I didn't think the Jab one would actually work for that long, I was just curious how many hits you can get in before the SDI out fully. Would it work if they missed a tech?

 

[folk!]

is the auto release to utilt gerentied against wario? ive seen u do it to quik and it look gerentied, then i tried it against two of my friends. the better one could get out a few time and the ****tier one could not. if timed right is it gerentied?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

yes it is why else would they be on there? Utilt is probably the easiest one to land how ever Bair at the ledge will kill earlier and maybe send him in a direction where he has to use his up B.

 

[folk!]

yes it is why else would they be on there? Utilt is probably the easiest one to land how ever Bair at the ledge will kill earlier and maybe send him in a direction where he has to use his up B.

thank you! i didn'tread in depth it was just a ?, but thank you im gonna get that timing down now.

 

[PltnmNgl]

How soon is this going to get updated again?

Really sexy info in here. Thanks, Kirk.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

"kirk" (12:19:49 PM): and if you care, grab releases will be completed in a few minutes

 

[Kirk]

There...me not being lazy.

Large update to the Grab Release section.

Check history for full update details.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Hm, I thought we had walk-off fair on either Mario or Luigi, And air release -> aether on Jigglypuff but besides that, 31 known grab-releases is awesome.

 

[Kirk]

Hm, I thought we had walk-off fair on either Mario or Luigi, And air release -> aether on Jigglypuff but besides that, 31 known grab-releases is awesome.

Mario/Luigi are out of range for any attack.

Aether is too slow...Jiggs can jump or air dodge before it connects.

 

[•Col•]

So, uh.... I think Ike might have a VERY SMALL chaingrab on some characters. I believe on Smashville, you can forward throw someone on the platform, then run up and grab them again(while the platform is moving in the same direction).

And if it doesn't work, anyway, I think the moving platform allows Ike to do some other moves from Grab Releases that wouldn't normally work.


If neither of these work, then oh well. xD This thread needed a bump anyway.

 

[Ussi]

Colaya that tactic is MAD fun to do with Pikachu since his fthrow is more rapetastic for CGing as it CGs already xD

 

[•Col•]

Colaya that tactic is MAD fun to do with Pikachu since his fthrow is more rapetastic for CGing as it CGs already xD

Lol. I was playing against computers the other day, and the stage was Smashville. For some reason, some DDD combo video I saw a few months ago popped into my head. In the video, I remembered him doing a standing Dthrow chaingrab while the platform was moving. So I was like "Hmm.............." and found the (supposed) chaingrab.

 

[metroid1117]

Minor typo alert / bump:

"Opponent flys upwards on frame 51" <- in the description for DThrow

Should be "flies".

 

[SSD]

wait, Ike's roll dodges are the same for forward and backward?

 

[Guilhe]

Kirk, could you look for possible follow-ups to the grab release while standing on ice? Thanks.

 

[metroid1117]

To test out invincibility/SAF frames easily, I recommend that you try out the debug hack (found here, post #2) with Homebrew; if it's too much of a hassle for you, I can help you test it on my own Wii and send you the results; you can then test them to verify it's accuracy.

 

[Kirk]

Believe me, I've known of this for about a week now. :D

Makes things way easier, but there is a known bug that makes things less inconvenient...but no matter. It's just a minor inconvenience.

I'm working on my frame stuffs for my Smash Lab project...but I'll see if I can release some of Ike's stuff early.

 

[_Sync_]

Out of curiosity, I wanted to know if it's possible to get the start-up lag for each of his moves to get an idea of which moves come out the soonest?

 

[metroid1117]

Believe me, I've known of this for about a week now. :D

Makes things way easier, but there is a known bug that makes things less inconvenient...but no matter. It's just a minor inconvenience.

I'm working on my frame stuffs for my Smash Lab project...but I'll see if I can release some of Ike's stuff early.

Oops.

Out of curiosity, I wanted to know if it's possible to get the start-up lag for each of his moves to get an idea of which moves come out the soonest?

The values already given are the first frame in which the hitbox comes out.; can you clarify your question?

 

[Kamikaze*]

Ike's jab has 3 frames? Wow, that's more than I expected.

 

[Guilhe]

Bump. Add shieldstun please.

 

[Ussi]

Bump. Add shieldstun please.

2nd this for emphasis on how important this is

 

[Teh Brettster]

Yes, we're including the finished product in the new guide, right? So it should be 100% finished, eh?

BTW...
"-Air Release(offstage) --> Walk-off Nair"
We have a grab release into... suicide? Haha, I'll guess it's just for platforms above the lowest part of the stage.

 

[Ussi]

Actually I changed my mind on shieldstun, i want to know frame disadvantages on block and PS.

 

[Kirk]

Actually I changed my mind on shieldstun, i want to know frame disadvantages on block and PS.

You can calculate advantage/disadvantage if you know the length of the move and the blockstun associated with it.

Also, I've found out many of the blockstun values for Ike a long time ago(IIRC, all his attacks except aerials). If you want to know one, ask here for now.

If I get around to it, I may update the OP. But I don't know when that will be. So for now, just ask.

 

[Guilhe]

I believe Bthrow to QD and aerial ground release to walk-off Dair might be a true combo on some characters, do you mind testing it out?

 

[comboking]

Your dash grab is wrong. 30+1+12=43 not 42

 

[metroid1117]

Your dash grab is wrong. 30+1+12=43 not 42

It's because right on frame 30, you can move. Therefore, instead of having 30 frames of lag where you can't do anything, you really have 29 (since, again, you can do an action right on frame 30). Instead of thinking it as 30+1+12=42, think of it as 29 (frames of lag from the grab release)+1 (start-up frame to dash)+12 (frames it takes for the dash grab to come out)= 42.

 

[comboking]

ah I see never mind then.

 

[Kirk]

O Hai Guise.

Long time no see.

 

[YagamiLight]

Kirk it's like you bring Christmas presents when it's not even December.

Excellent job, I am simply amazed.

Quick question, if I'm reading this correctly does this mean that Ike's counter has true invincibility frames? i.e. if they attempt a grab from f11-16 it'll miss?

 

[metroid1117]

Kirk it's like you bring Christmas presents when it's not even December.

Excellent job, I am simply amazed.

Quick question, if I'm reading this correctly does this mean that Ike's counter has true invincibility frames? i.e. if they attempt a grab from f11-16 it'll miss?

Quoted for truth. I love frame data.

Would you mind finding how long the "spike" hitbox for DAir stays out? *puppy face*

 

[theeboredone]

Would you mind...wait nvm I just do stuff.

 

[Kirk]

Kirk it's like you bring Christmas presents when it's not even December.

Excellent job, I am simply amazed.

Quick question, if I'm reading this correctly does this mean that Ike's counter has true invincibility frames? i.e. if they attempt a grab from f11-16 it'll miss?

I can do a quick test, but that's what my sources tell me...

Quoted for truth. I love frame data.

Would you mind finding how long the "spike" hitbox for DAir stays out? *puppy face*

It's already there. You just have to interpret the data. There are two sets of hitboxes: One on frames 16-17, and the other from 18-30, which takes precedence over the initial hitbox.

A trajectory of 270 means they get sent straight down. Start pointing east, going counterclockwise, 0 is that horizontal line, 90 is straight up, 180 is pointing west, and 270 is downward.

Short answer, spike hitbox lasts for 2 frames.

EDIT: Super confirmed. Ike cannot be grabbed during frames 11-16 of Counter.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I really don't think it matters that Ike can't be grabbed in those frames... the opponent can just grab again in all the ending lag of the move... =\
Cool to know, though. Lol.

I like this data, Kirk. It's amazing.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Yays for random invincibility frames? lol

Does Marth have the same random invincibility frames as well?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

most likely there counters are exactly the same except for the good stuff happens 4 frames faster for marth.

 

[Kirk]

HUGE UPDATE!

--Finished up with the Invincibility frames and IASA on all of the Ledge and Wakeup actions!!!
--Added Shieldstun and Shield Hitlag to ALL attacks!!!
--FRAME ADVANTAGE for all attacks completed!!

Wow I swear I'm not that excited. Really.

This is a very important update. Check the OP for the data, and the terms section for a description of Frame Advantage if you do not know already.

And now, a quickie ranking of Ike's attacks, according to frame advantage:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attack Ranking
-12 - Jab 1
-15 - Jab 2
-16 - Back Wakeup Attack (2nd Hit)
-24 - Front Wakeup Attack (2nd Hit)
-25 - Ledge Attack (> 100%)
-25 - Jab 3
-28 - Back Wakeup Attack (1st Hit)
-30 - Dash Attack
-30 - Ledge Attack (< 100%)
-31 - Front Wakeup Attack (1st Hit)
-32 - Down Smash (2nd Hit)
-32 - Up Tilt (Sword)
-33 - Aether (Last Hit)
-33 - Forward Tilt
-33 - Up Tilt (Hilt)
-34 - Down Tilt
-36 - Eruption (Full Charge)
-36 - Up Smash
-41 - Forward Smash (Sword Middle)
-43 - Forward Smash (Sword Tip)
-45 - Eruption (Uncharged)
-51 - Quick Draw (Full Charge)
-52 - Down Smash (1st Hit)
-53 - Quick Draw (Uncharged)
-89 - Aether (First Hit)

MISC
-29 - Counter (Retaliation) - Like this would ever happen?

Aerials
(Separated because they have very variable Advantages)

Base Aerial Advantages
(Hitting THE frame before touching the ground)
-09 - Nair (Zero Airtime)
-14 - Uair (Zero Airtime)
-17 - Bair (Zero Airtime)
-17 - Fair (Zero Airtime)
-23 - Dair (Zero Airtime, Spike Hitbox)
-24 - Dair (Zero Airtime, Weak Hitbox)

Executing Immediately from Start of Short Hop
(Advantage will be increased if Aerials are Fast Falled, naturally. This also assumes the hitboxes hit the shield as soon as they are able)
-27 - Bair (Short Hop, no Fast Fall, Auto-cancel)
-32 - Nair (Short Hop, no Fast Fall)
-37 - Fair (Short Hop, no Fast Fall)
-37 - Uair (Short Hop, no Fast Fall)
-45 - Dair (Short Hop, no Fast Fall, Spike Hitbox)

With Additional Airtime
(Using ~5 frames to simulate hitting a shield shortly before touching the ground, realistically)
-14 - Nair (5 Frames Additional Airtime)
-19 - Uair (5 Frames Additional Airtime)
-22 - Fair (5 Frames Additional Airtime)
-22 - Bair (5 Frames Additional Airtime)
-28 - Dair (5 Frames Additional Airtime, Spike Hitbox)
-29 - Dair (5 Frames Additional Airtime, Weak Hitbox)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, yeah, you know Ike is a terrible character when 6 of his top 10 attacks with the best Frame Advantage(Not including Aerials) are Ledge and Wakeup Actions...

Also,

lolEruption
lolDsmash
lolQuickDraw

Discuss.