Ike Data Compilation. [Hitbox Visuals Complete!]

[Kirk]

If you grab someone after they use their second jump and before they hit the ground, they will not get their jump back, with or without pummeling.

I shall get Wario up if I can.

Also, you're right, I'll plan on putting a section for "situational combos." Seems it may be of use. I'll just have to alter some titles here and there...

 

[YagamiLight]

Samus, Kirby, Ness and Lucas added to the Grab Release section.

As everyone probably already knows, Ness and Lucas' Ground Release animation is indeed longer than the other characters' so far (IASA Frame 41).

Here's what I'm so torn about though...take a look at this:

Ness/Lucas Ground Release IASA: 41
Ike's Dash Grab Follow-up: 42

As much as I would LOVE to call this a true infinite combo, I don't think I can. The reasoning behind this is that Ness/Lucas can buffer a spot dodge after their release. Their spot dodge invincibility starts at frame 2, like most every other characters' do. So, frame 1 of their spot dodge starts on frame 41, and frame 2, the first invincibility frame, is on frame 42...same as the earliest Ike can dash grab.

Also, before you say it, yes, I tried standing grab. It doesn't work, they slide too far. (Though against a wall is a different story. )

Keep in mind, however, that this is frame PERFECT. If they are even 1 frame too slow, you will regrab them. But regardless, I can NOT put this in as a true combo, because it isn't. Still good to know however. :D

Ah, so close! Yet so far...still, it's frame perfect.

Wall infinite is nice, however. (Though you may as well Fthrow). I have two questions, however:

1) Depending on how long Ness's/Lucas's spot dodge is, could you still get a regrab even if you miss the initial dashgrab?

2) Is it possible for Ness/Lucas to SDI the first jab (Making them take only 4%)? If this is true, what is a possible follow-up to their SDI that'll allow the grab release to actuallydo more damage than a throw?

Thanks.

Edit: I lied, I have three questions. #3, are there any characters that Ike gets additional combos against if he grabs them out of their second jump?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

alright then, I was a bit confused since I remembered that with snake you have to grab him and hold him until he breaks out of his recovery.

Pretty kool just have to find a way to grab warrio out of his second jump then...


edit: wall infinite is kool because this way you can get damage up faster/ refresh moves. Don't dismiss it as just do Fthrow.

Also at high percents Fthrow just bounces some people off.

 

[YagamiLight]

alright then, I was a bit confused since I remembered that with snake you have to grab him and hold him until he breaks out of his recovery.

That's a different scenario, AB.

Hitting Snake with a grab pummel inflicts the flinch needed to give him back the third jump, AKA the cypher. Hitting Wario will not do anything to restore the jump until he touches the ground.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

actually I think if he wasted his up B then he would regain that. I had just forgotten if it worked with 2nd jumps as well or not.

And no you can only SDI out of the jab combo if you where hit by like the tip of the 2nd jab. Maybe out of the first one too but I'm not sure.

 

[Kirk]

Ah, so close! Yet so far...still, it's frame perfect.

Wall infinite is nice, however. (Though you may as well Fthrow). I have two questions, however:

1) Depending on how long Ness's/Lucas's spot dodge is, could you still get a regrab even if you miss the initial dashgrab?

2) Is it possible for Ness/Lucas to SDI the first jab (Making them take only 4%)? If this is true, what is a possible follow-up to their SDI that'll allow the grab release to actuallydo more damage than a throw?

Thanks.

Edit: I lied, I have three questions. #3, are there any characters that Ike gets additional combos against if he grabs them out of their second jump?

1) Though I don't have the data to back it up(yet), I'm fairly sure they can jab you before you can act after a whiffed dash grab.

2) Anyone can SDI anything. :o If they do that, and the second jab misses, why not just keep holding A? Combat walking is always fun. And there's always the staple jab --> grab. You can produce a chain like this if you're lucky. Or you know...jab --> Utilt maybe...but then I'm drudging into situational territory.

3) That could be something that can be put into a "situational combos" category. Though if that were the case, one would have to take into account that they can attack ASAP also. Still something to try I suppose...it would take a lot more time to test, however.

Also, Arturo is correct about the Fthrow thing...pummels refresh moves, and some characters can bounce off at certain percents.

EDIT:

Wario done. I lol'd at him having SEVEN different true followups. xD (Technically 5 attacks, but 2 of them work more than one way. )

It shall also be noted that the grab infinite is missed by ONE frame yet again. >.>

 

[YagamiLight]

Wario done. I lol'd at him having SEVEN different true followups. xD (Technically 5 attacks, but 2 of them work more than one way. )

It shall also be noted that the grab infinite is missed by ONE frame yet again. >.>

Ah, thanks for answering those questions.

Is this Aether followup the massive 20+% percent dealer or the 4% one?

Speaking of Aether follow-ups, can you do Jigglypuff next? I want to see if that actually works.

 

[Kirk]

Ah, thanks for answering those questions.

Is this Aether followup the massive 20+% percent dealer or the 4% one?

Speaking of Aether follow-ups, can you do Jigglypuff next? I want to see if that actually works.

When I tested, I only hit with it once...so yes around 4%. I'm unsure if altering the timing will change this...but I don't think it will.

 

[YagamiLight]

When I tested, I only hit with it once...so yes around 4%. I'm unsure if altering the timing will change this...but I don't think it will.

The timing actually plays a critical role in the Aether.

If you hit Wario with Ike's fist when he's throwing the sword up, then Wario gets dragged up along with Ike for a nice 20+% journey. If you hit him with a single sword strike, you do only 4%.

There's two ways I see to accomplish this.

1) You wait for Wario to be in position, but this might leave him open to just airdodging it, as it takes some time.

2) You can jump and Aether! This way, by just doing a hop off the ground, it appears you Aether before he can act and get the full damage range.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Actually I'm pretty sure that the first hit of aether is the easiest to DI out of seeing as it has the most knock back of the whole thing.

 

[Sharky]

Good stuff, Kirk, as always. =)

Even better since Ike's got no release combos on Yoshi. XD

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

thats cause no one has requested yoshi and no one ever will we already have that match in the bag xD

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I request Yoshi just because A_B said nobody would. ^_^

 

[Ussi]

if wario gets 20% combo'd by aether thats just sexy and win~~

Good thing Wario has a good air game otherwise he'd be screwed xD

 

[YagamiLight]

if wario gets 20% combo'd by aether thats just sexy and win~~

Good thing Wario has a good air game otherwise he'd be screwed xD

Seven grab releases is already in "screwed" territory, would you not say so?

 

[Ussi]

he spends most of his time in the air though. Just a few shield grabs and he's toast though. I think ftilt angled up would be Ike's strongest follow up, no? That should be saved as the kill then.

 

[YagamiLight]

he spends most of his time in the air though. Just a few shield grabs and he's toast though. I think ftilt angled up would be Ike's strongest follow up, no? That should be saved as the kill then.

Yeah, a grab near the edge facing towards the blastzone followed by a Ftilt should probably kill at 75%ish if you grab, pummel twice and release Ftilt upwards, I'd say.

If you grab him when you face away from the blastzone, do a pivot Bair.

On a platform? Do an up tilt.

For damage? Aether.

Poor Wario.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

except you know. Its the 4% aether that can be DIed out of like using MK.

 

[Kirk]

added. :D

Ike ain't got nothin' on !

 

[Guilhe]

Great guide Kirk. Just an observation:

SAF: "Super Armor Frames." The frames in which Super Armor is active. Applies to certain Special Attacks.

I believe this SAF description should be more elaborated, something like “Frames in which Ike does not suffer knockback from attacks”. Just for the noobs.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Great guide Kirk. Just an observation:

I believe this SAF description should be more elaborated, something like “Frames in which Ike does not suffer knockback from enemy attacks”. Just for the noobs.

I told you!!

I request full charged QD to be finished!

 

[Sharky]

Ike ain't got nothin' on !

/thread XD

 

[metroid1117]

I know this doesn't concern Ike, but do you think you can find out frame data for Falco's side+B attack? I'm talking about frames between important visual/audio cues, like the time between you hear a whoosh and the initiation of the attack. I'm just wondering because the Falco boards just have when the attack comes out, not important frame cues.

 

[Hoser]

Hey Kirk, can you test out DK next? I just read in another topic that DK follows a set path like Squirtle, so maybe we can chain grab release him too.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*adds to list of things to check*

Can you check a possible Jab infinity on Corelia? You go to the same place where you use your Fthrow, and do the first jab (and only the first jab) over and over and over. I can't test it myself very well.

As well, check for grab releases there? I believe that with anyone who can't move until they are close to the ground can be infintitly grab released (except MK, he goes up high enough to grab the top of the fin)

 

[Hoser]

*Looks for Corelia on Brawl.*

Hmm, I'd try it, but all I can find is Corneria. >.>

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Close-a-freaking enough. >_>

 

[Hoser]

XD

I'm an aspiring writer, so I make it a note to point out every spelling error I see, and usually taunt the poster about it.

 

[Kirk]

That fit under the category of 'against a wall' which I may add to my list at a later date.

As for 1st jab --> 1st jab, i have reason to believe it is a true combo, but one can SDI out of it rather easily.

I'll try and get an update later today. Lately I've just been...tired and having a lot of other things to do.

 

[Hoser]

Whatever, take your time dude. It's not like it's an improvement in Ike's metagame or anything >.>

Just kidding. But really, take your time. Just the fact that you're doing this is awesome.

But when you do start some more testing, could you try to fit in DK? I'd try it myself, but I don't know how the heck to do any frame data stuff. I should learn.

 

[Kirk]

Update: DK added to the Grab Release Character Section.

Things to note:

-DK's Ground Release is 21 Frames. Be very careful here. :o

-There were a few times where the Dash Attack followup would miss. I concluded that if you did a perfect Dash Attack Follow-up (Hit on frame 48, sometimes 49), the attack would miss just under DK. However, hit later at frames 50-51, it would connect.

Maybe more stuff will be put up tonight. Don't know yet. xD

 

[YagamiLight]

I was playing earlier today and I did a Dtilt at 0%. This led to me jab comboing for a total of 30 or so damage. I'm well aware that it is probably escapable, but I feel the need to ask. Does a grounded Dtilt or an Eruption spike go into anything (The last one is probably a definite no)?

 

[Kirk]

Potentially large amounts of frame data updates to come. Currently have some changes to Bair and grabs. Pivot Grab has also been added.

Hopefully more to come. :D

Edit: Eruption updated.
Edit2: Quick Draw updated.
Edit3: Roll Dodge and Air Dodge updated.

That's it for tonight.

 

[metroid1117]

I'm sad that this isn't stickied yet. *Bumps after re-reading the VERY useful info in the thread*

EDIT: I have another request, but this one is more for my own curiosity. Would it be possible to calculate the rate of increase for Eruption's damage (thus giving a general idea of it's rate of power increase)? The only way I can see this working is by getting footage of Eruption being released at different points during the charging animation, calculating how long it was charged for, then plotting points on a damage-over-time graph to find an equation. I would be able to find the equation if you were able to find the points if you want; this is a very big request, so I feel bad making you work so much for this >.>.

 

[Guilhe]

Kirk, I’ve got a request for you: In which frame(s) does Ike have maximum frontal range with Uair?

And thanks again for making working on this, your effort is helping a lot in those matchup discussions.

 

[Kirk]

Apologies for being behind on this thread...part of the time has been me debating what to do with this.

With the addition of the Smash Lab, well, basically I'll be doing more stuff with that now. So idk what I'll be doing here...reformatting or new stuff or whatever... :/

--------------------------------------------------
BUT...

A quick factoid...because Ryko was bugging me with the idea...basically from a discussion on what can 'combo' from a Jab?

A single Jab, if connected, gives you a 6 frame advantage on your opponent. This means you can act 6 frames before your opponent can do anything(in this case it would be jumping, as it is the fastest action possible).

What does this mean? 1st Jab --> 1st Jab is a true combo. SDI can naturally be used to escape this in time, but it still does work regardless.

Now, if they do NOT jump, they have a significantly longer time before they can do anything(with my testing using Snake, it was about 7 frames more, but this value is dependant on the weight of the character and any SDI used).

Why point this out? This gives you about a 13 frame advantage. Hmmm... *looks at moves that come out in 13 frames* ...Well now we have some Grabs...Utilt...and DSmash!

Neat...eh?

P.S. Just because, I tested the 2nd Jab as well. You only get a ONE frame advantage from this. No combos here!

 

[Palpi]

Awesome kirk. I have seen videos of people jab jab, dmash, but I have to try jab, dsmash, because with 2 jabs it either missed or was power shielded.

 

[YagamiLight]

Apologies for being behind on this thread...part of the time has been me debating what to do with this.

With the addition of the Smash Lab, well, basically I'll be doing more stuff with that now. So idk what I'll be doing here...reformatting or new stuff or whatever... :/

--------------------------------------------------
BUT...

A quick factoid...because Ryko was bugging me with the idea...basically from a discussion on what can 'combo' from a Jab?

A single Jab, if connected, gives you a 6 frame advantage on your opponent. This means you can act 6 frames before your opponent can do anything(in this case it would be jumping, as it is the fastest action possible).

What does this mean? 1st Jab --> 1st Jab is a true combo. SDI can naturally be used to escape this in time, but it still does work regardless.

Now, if they do NOT jump, they have a significantly longer time before they can do anything(with my testing using Snake, it was about 7 frames more, but this value is dependant on the weight of the character and any SDI used).

Why point this out? This gives you about a 13 frame advantage. Hmmm... *looks at moves that come out in 13 frames* ...Well now we have some Grabs...Utilt...and DSmash!

Neat...eh?

P.S. Just because, I tested the 2nd Jab as well. You only get a ONE frame advantage from this. No combos here!

This is pretty awesome news, I'll have to ask a few questions, however.

1) Assuming they are a very large character, is it possible to jab walk them by repeatedly canceling and moving forward an inch every time? I'm curious about this because D3's jump pretty much sucks, so you'll get some more time here to deal with him.

2) Could you do the same frame advantage test for Dair, Nair and the Back Throw when you have time?

 

[Rykoshet]

Dair honestly leaves you at a frame disadvantage if you do anything but throw it on full hop ascent lol >_> I can count the number of times I've spiked someone to the floor with it only for them to be able to get up attack before I could even block, ****'s annoying.

 

[Palpi]

What about weak dairs? I am not sure if the end of dair gives advantage or disadvantage, but a lot of times if my opponent is on the ground i can get off weak dair, then utilt, but I am not sure.

It'll probably be found on Ussi's requests