~ Ike Boards Bi-Weeklies Thread ~ Come in and discuss ideas! ~

[Foodies]

Yeah. Though if it won't take too long, I should be able to play. Only thing is if parents decide to take a family outing or something, I'll be forced to go.

Basically I don't want to sign up if there's the possibility that I won't be able to make it...but if I don't have to stay the whole time I might be able to work something out.

 

[comboking]

Sunday afternoon from 3 pm EST to 6 pm EST
Is perfect

Sign up Info:
ComboKing
2020 1510 6702

 

[Teh Brettster]

I dunno. Maybe in that case we ought not to call this the "Power Rankings." It's pretty inaccurate to call it that. Just call it top WiFi ditto winners or something like that. And even THEN, it seems kind of silly to keep an organized list of results for something so... unorganized.

EDIT: Furthermore, with the goals you typed out, it should be just fine to set up the XAT as a place to meet for friendlies.

 

[Nysyarc]

Well, unorganized is hardly the word I would choose, I have put a lot of thought into this. 'Unstructured' maybe if referring to the tournament itself, because it's true there isn't a bracket and you aren't absolutely required to play everyone else, there's just incentive to. I'll keep the term Power Rankings because it gives incentive to be competitive about this, we want people to have fun doing it but at the same time it can't be just some joke event for the lols, there has to be a purpose, a goal.

The problem with having bracket tournaments is that some of the newer players would end up playing two sets and then they're done. Two Ike ditto sets bi-weekly, one in winners against a pro and one in losers against someone more their own level, will hardly get them any experience, and they won't exactly be enjoying themselves since their only options will be to leave early or stay and see how the pros do while they get to keep on fighting.

Also, we can't exactly sign up 16 people and say "Alright, you're all forced to stay here for 6 hours while you play 15 sets of Ike dittos, like it or not". A full round robin takes a long time, and so we can't expect everyone to be able to stay and finish (if everyone can, that's awesome). And we can't have it be like "You've got the whole weekend to play everyone who signed up, find them and fight them", that would be WAY too disorganized and slack on my part. It has to be at one set time, everybody's there, and we get as much done as we can.

/debateaholic

 

[Teh Brettster]

You remember the round robin last year was exactly that for one week, yes? And it worked just fine. And it worked because we gave it a whole week to happen. Which is why I think this should be a monthly or quarterly thing.

 

[Nysyarc]

Well... it didn't entirely work. There were still some people who had done less matches than others by the end of the week. It was fun for sure, but it was a slack way of doing it. If we had decided on a time each day of the week when we were all available and could meet and get matches done, it would have all gotten done more smoothly. Instead some people had a good 10 sets left to do when the last day came around.

When left to their own devices people procrastinate and forget... I know I do, lol. Having a set time adds structure, and it will also allow me to organize stats easier, because everyone who plays a set will be right there and able to tell me the outcome.

Edit: Anyways, we can use the tournament this Sunday as a test. If it works as a competitive atmosphere and we have fun doing it, we'll keep it up as it is. If it doesn't work, I can definitely make some changes for the next one; I'll have a week to think of other ways to do it and to get suggestions. I'm optimistic that this will work though, and even if it doesn't it'll still be fun.

 

[theeboredone]

Well... it didn't entirely work. There were still some people who had done less matches than others by the end of the week. It was fun for sure, but it was a slack way of doing it. If we had decided on a time each day of the week when we were all available and could meet and get matches done, it would have all gotten done more smoothly. Instead some people had a good 10 sets left to do when the last day came around.

When left to their own devices people procrastinate and forget... I know I do, lol. Having a set time adds structure, and it will also allow me to organize stats easier, because everyone who plays a set will be right there and able to tell me the outcome.

Edit: Anyways, we can use the tournament this Sunday as a test. If it works as a competitive atmosphere and we have fun doing it, we'll keep it up as it is. If it doesn't work, I can definitely make some changes for the next one; I'll have a week to think of other ways to do it and to get suggestions. I'm optimistic that this will work though, and even if it doesn't it'll still be fun.

The reason I didn't make it all on one day was because not everyone could show up on a single day -face palm-. We had like 2 weeks to get ready for the SWF LT Tourny, and I thought having a one week Round Robin would be the best approach. I can understand this situation though since it's a bi weekly or whatever. However, like it not, there is gonna be somebody out there who can't show up on a given day so you can be a total **** about it and leave them out of the single day event, or spread it out through the week and expect them to get it done. If they don't get it done, and they don't make it, too bad, it's their own fault. If you're gonna do a single day event, you better not give special treatment to some of the players here. I don't want you going like "Oh, San, Red-X, and Bored can't do Friday, so we'll look for another time", but if it's "Well, it's only Slaps and ComboKing, so we'll get on with it".

On another note, I still think we should be cautious on who we let in. Imagine if a vast group of AiB Ike mains got word of this and flooded here. That's like...10 more Ike mains guaranteed. Then the Round Robin would be impossible to complete, and you would have to go with bracketing.

Also, Brett, what you said about the term being called "Power Rankings", I disagree with you. New York Shark is right when he says it gives the event a more competitive spirit and doesn't make it silly. It still doesn't mean you're the best Ike out there. We could always have our own separate PR for that. In fact, if anyone thinks think they are best if they place first, then they are just freaking ******** and need to be sent to a rehab clinic where Mr. Doom can treat them with some modded levels.

 

[Nysyarc]

In fact, if anyone thinks think they are best if they place first, then they are just freaking ******** and need to be sent to a rehab clinic where Mr. Doom can treat them with some modded levels.

Okay that was hilarious, I actually laughed right out loud when I read that last bit.

The reason I didn't make it all on one day was because not everyone could show up on a single day -face palm-. We had like 2 weeks to get ready for the SWF LT Tourny, and I thought having a one week Round Robin would be the best approach. I can understand this situation though since it's a bi weekly or whatever. However, like it not, there is gonna be somebody out there who can't show up on a given day so you can be a total **** about it and leave them out of the single day event, or spread it out through the week and expect them to get it done. If they don't get it done, and they don't make it, too bad, it's their own fault. If you're gonna do a single day event, you better not give special treatment to some of the players here. I don't want you going like "Oh, San, Red-X, and Bored can't do Friday, so we'll look for another time", but if it's "Well, it's only Slaps and ComboKing, so we'll get on with it".

I know not everyone could show up on a single day That's why I said in my last post:

If we had decided on a time each day of the week when we were all available and could meet and get matches done, it would have all gotten done more smoothly.

My whole goal here, as I've stated many times now, is to include as many people as possible, regardless of their skill level/location/whatever, and give them a chance to get experience. I hardly think I'm being a total **** about it... but if for some reason it's coming across that way then... sorry?

I've already asserted that I won't be making any special preferences. When G.P brought up the good point that European Ikes couldn't play in the evenings I made Sunday afternoon a priority time even though some regulars (including Light, who helped start this) said they could do it Friday evening and may not have been able to do it Sunday.

On another note, I still think we should be cautious on who we let in. Imagine if a vast group of AiB Ike mains got word of this and flooded here. That's like...10 more Ike mains guaranteed. Then the Round Robin would be impossible to complete, and you would have to go with bracketing.

I was considering making a sign-up limit of 16 for each tournament, but that would again go against my ideal of inclusion. I don't think the AiB Ikes will really jump on this, they have their own AiB groups and Ike tournaments. If they do... well we can cross that bridge if we get there. I don't see it being a huge problem... but you're right, it would probably have to become a bracket at that point.

 

[Mr. Doom]

In fact, if anyone thinks think they are best if they place first, then they are just freaking ******** and need to be sent to a rehab clinic where Mr. Doom can treat them with some modded levels.

You know, I think I should quote that for my next sig.

 

[Nysyarc]

You know, I think I should quote that for my next sig.

You should definitely do that, although remove the second "think" Bored has in there.

Last call for sign-ups, they end at midnight PST tonight... so basically you've still got 14 hours, but I won't be posting any more reminders or anything. I'll be sending everyone who's signed up a PM reminder 3 hours prior to the tournament start time (so around noon EST).

 

[Heartstring]

You should definitely do that, although remove the second "think" Bored has in there.

Last call for sign-ups, they end at midnight PST tonight... so basically you've still got 14 hours, but I won't be posting any more reminders or anything. I'll be sending everyone who's signed up a PM reminder 3 hours prior to the tournament start time (so around noon EST).

cool, shall be there, also, it should be called the ike ladder.
because the aib ladder almosts shows who's best, but its still got wifi involved, so its like that, but ike only....yeah
also commenting on the earlier bit, i'm a little on the fence about aib ikes, because if we did get a random flood of them, we could get up to 32 ikes, which means a perfect bracket, but youll probably want to avoid having them in here,

 

[Nysyarc]

cool, shall be there, also, it should be called the ike ladder.
because the aib ladder almosts shows who's best, but its still got wifi involved, so its like that, but ike only....yeah

Well, since it's just a one day bi-weekly thing I don't know if that would suit it. I find online tournaments are actually fairly consistent with offline skill. It's more the fact that we're just doing dittos that gives the PR less weight IMO. Like, San is pretty much guaranteed to come out on top here; WiFi might occasionally cause random mishaps, but it does that for everyone, so the better players will still win most of the time.

also commenting on the earlier bit, i'm a little on the fence about aib ikes, because if we did get a random flood of them, we could get up to 32 ikes, which means a perfect bracket, but youll probably want to avoid having them in here,

The problem with having 32 people sign up is that it's pretty much inevitable that some won't show. But you're right, as long as we don't get more than 32 Ikes (which I don't think is possible), it'd make a good bracket. I'd still rather keep this low profile and continue the round-robins, because it makes the stats and PRs easier and more open to everyone.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Man. I don't think I'll be able to play unless I can steal a Wiimote from my mom's house and take it to my apartment. =\

 

[Heartstring]

Well, since it's just a one day bi-weekly thing I don't know if that would suit it. I find online tournaments are actually fairly consistent with offline skill. It's more the fact that we're just doing dittos that gives the PR less weight IMO. Like, San is pretty much guaranteed to come out on top here; WiFi might occasionally cause random mishaps, but it does that for everyone, so the better players will still win most of the time.



The problem with having 32 people sign up is that it's pretty much inevitable that some won't show. But you're right, as long as we don't get more than 32 Ikes (which I don't think is possible), it'd make a good bracket. I'd still rather keep this low profile and continue the round-robins, because it makes the stats and PRs easier and more open to everyone.

fair enough, but to be fair, the way i found to be best if a bracket was being done is to not actually have it pre-setup, and then when people turn up, add them into the bracket untill its time for the tourney to start, and dont take any more entry's from there, but i dont think that would work ni this case.
round robin-ish thing is probably for the best

 

[Nysyarc]

Man. I don't think I'll be able to play unless I can steal a Wiimote from my mom's house and take it to my apartment. =\

Do it.

10doits.

fair enough, but to be fair

I lol'd.

the way i found to be best if a bracket was being done is to not actually have it pre-setup, and then when people turn up, add them into the bracket untill its time for the tourney to start, and dont take any more entry's from there, but i dont think that would work ni this case.
round robin-ish thing is probably for the best

Hmm... that wouldn't make much difference though because all I'd have to do if people didn't show up is remove them from the bracket. Even if the round robin doesn't work out as well as I think it will, it'll allow me to seed accurately if we do brackets in the future.

 

[Heartstring]

Do it.

10doits.



I lol'd.



Hmm... that wouldn't make much difference though because all I'd have to do if people didn't show up is remove them from the bracket. Even if the round robin doesn't work out as well as I think it will, it'll allow me to seed accurately if we do brackets in the future.

just realised my contradiction -__-

yeah whatever, round robin thingy works, but you could say that people should play other registered people at least once or something

 

[Nysyarc]

yeah whatever, round robin thingy works, but you could say that people should play other registered people at least once or something

That's the idea. Once the tourney starts you can stay as long as you need to in order to finish your sets with everyone else. If anyone has to leave early, we can't exactly force them to stay, but basically you do have to play everyone else once in a set (no more than once per person).

 

[theeboredone]

Well, since it's just a one day bi-weekly thing I don't know if that would suit it. I find online tournaments are actually fairly consistent with offline skill.

Stopped reading after that. I've said this like a gajillion times, some people are just not good on wifi if they are used to offline, plain and simple. It's not just about the "mishaps", but timing, spacing, style of play. Personally, I have found it impossible to play fast without having several errors happen, so I just stopped doing it. Something as simple as a short hop b-air comes out as a full hop b-air or f-smash. On top of that, there are quite a number of people that I have beat or placed same in offline tournies that have kicked my *** online. And I'm not the only guy, there are several of these players out there.

There are some natural exceptions, and there are people who's talent helps them carry to offline like San and Ally, but you're being plain stupid if you think wifi and offline are consistent for the most part in skill.

 

[Nysyarc]

Personally, I have found it impossible to play fast without having several errors happen, so I just stopped doing it. Something as simple as a short hop b-air comes out as a full hop b-air or f-smash.

Well yah if you don't play online often, but it doesn't take long to get used to, and all this about 'getting used to WiFi means I'll lose my offline skill' is bull, plain and simple. I play online all the time and I've actually been improving offline and doing better in my local bi-weeklies at the same time.

Anyways, I don't want this to get too far off topic so you can PM me if you want to continue this debate.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

There is no debate.

Wifi changes everything, and is not even close to an accurate way to compare skill. It's for fun, nothing more.

 

[Nysyarc]

There is no debate.

Wifi changes everything, and is not even close to an accurate way to compare skill. It's for fun, nothing more.

The thing is though, that's the opinion of anyone who doesn't play WiFi very often. If you're not used to input lag, of course you're gonna hate it and say it's 100x worse than offline. I play guys from my local smash scene online and offline, and the outcomes are very consistent on both, because we all do both a lot.

You're right, there's no debate. But the reason there's no debate isn't that it's one-sided, it's that both sides are just bias opinion based on experience.

 

[theeboredone]

The thing is though, that's the opinion of anyone who doesn't play WiFi very often. If you're not used to input lag, of course you're gonna hate it and say it's 100x worse than offline. I play guys from my local smash scene online and offline, and the outcomes are very consistent on both, because we all do both a lot.

You're right, there's no debate. But the reason there's no debate isn't that it's one-sided, it's that both sides are just bias opinion based on experience.

Actually, even the majority of wifi players will agree with us that offline is different enough to provide a significance in winning.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Actually, I used to play wifi a lot. There is a reason I've basically rage quit'd wifi: it sucks. It gets annoying when people I know I could beat offline get a win because the input lag keeps screwing things up. Against a Lucas spammer online I generally speaking lose. The last time I played a Lucas spammer offline I three stock'd that Lucas.

There is no skill in wifi Brawl: only luck and lag.

 

[Ussi]

What? Niddo 3 stocking someone is the sign of the ultimate faaaail

 

[Nysyarc]

Actually, I used to play wifi a lot. There is a reason I've basically rage quit'd wifi: it sucks. It gets annoying when people I know I could beat offline get a win because the input lag keeps screwing things up. Against a Lucas spammer online I generally speaking lose. The last time I played a Lucas spammer offline I three stock'd that Lucas.

There is no skill in wifi Brawl: only luck and lag.

Projectiles are broken on WiFi, I can agree to that, since you can't PS as consistently. However, saying there's no skill on WiFi is a gross exaggeration and you know it. If that were true everyone would just use G&W and go for 9s over and over again, but people generally don't change their play-style much on WiFi.

 

[Heartstring]

we can safely say that wifi shows who has the best natural choices and such, but people who rely heavily on powershielding (such as ike and most characters with no projectiles) and advanced tehcniques get screwed over by it, why else is falco and G&W so good on wifi?
sadly, waht people do with online play with messing up their technical inputs is what i do offline, and its unspeakable online XD

 

[Max113]

Oops... forgot to post here... >_>

Nyke! Throw me in!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Any attempt of skill is destroyed by the lag, and turned to simply luck if the opponent gets hit by it or not. For all you know, they could have already started shielding, but due to input lag you can't tell. Or they could have started jabbing 3 frames ago, but it's not showing on the TV screen yet. Ect.

 

[Nysyarc]

Good stuff Max, the more the merrier.

Edit: Blegh, I'm done arguing with you guys. Let's just allow this to stay on topic.

 

[YagamiLight]

Don't bother, Nysyarc.

The 'winner' of any internet argument is the side that can make the most outrageous, yet not completely refutable, claim.

The claim for the anti-WiFi crowd is: WiFi is terrible, ruins the gameplay.
The claim for the pro-WiFi crowd is: WiFi is great, lagless in-person gaming uh...well...I guess...it's equal!

I think you see what I mean.

 

[Ussi]

Pro-wifi crowd is: Good players can adapt between WiFi and offline

 

[Heartstring]

Pro-wifi crowd is: Good players can adapt between WiFi and offline

i'm almost at this, particularly good players can adapt, but the skill level is still severely decreased by the lag, even if its hardly there, but whatever

see you guys tonight!

 

[Watkins]

So many wifi johns, it's hilarious how people go out of their way to discredit wifi instead of just not playing it.

I'd love to participate in this once I move to a location with good internet in a month or two. Wifi or not, I've learned a lot from wifi Ike dittos and would love to learn more.

 

[Nysyarc]

Just so everyone knows, this is the link to the new Xat that we'll be using for the tournaments:

http://xat.com/chat/room/99028889/

The link is also at the bottom of the OP.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Pro-wifi crowd is: Good players can adapt between WiFi and offline

*joins wifi match*

*computer is up to use Xat and to play video game music on youtube, taking up bandwidth*

*sister is busy reading manga on her computer, taking up bandwidth*

*dad is busy looking up Fox News articles and videos, taking up bandwidth*

*mom is busy on super slow computer, taking up even more bandwidth*

*looks at resulting lag in Brawl match*

Adapt to THAT lag! :D

 

[-RedX-]

*joins wifi match*

*computer is up to use Xat and to play video game music on youtube, taking up bandwidth*

*sister is busy reading manga on her computer, taking up bandwidth*

*dad is busy looking up Fox News articles and videos, taking up bandwidth*

*mom is busy on super slow computer, taking up even more bandwidth*

*looks at resulting lag in Brawl match*

Adapt to THAT lag! :D

*Presses Start*->L+R+A+Start

Delete this friend from your roster? Yes.

>.>

 

[Teh Brettster]

HARD adaptation by Red-X.

 

[Iofsauron]

I hope all the participants that are participating today have my friend code right?

 

[jamlosingthegame]

For some reason, the chat won't load for me. Even though I won't be participating, I would love to stop by every once in a while to say hi and stuff. Unless you don't want me there.

 

[XxHollowCorexX]

Haaaaaai, I'm Haou. :D