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Ike -: Ashunera's real blessing (Discussion)

Nelo Vergil

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Ah -, truely one of the funnest experiences, making the garbage characters good (of course, some are always better than others). Ike is still a powerhouse, with some great tricks and tools added that vBrawl Ike could never dream of doing. First off, the change list, courtesy of Kirk

Changes:

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==Ike==
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==JABS/DASH ATTACK==

Jab 1 - Endlag decreased slightly.

Jab 2 - Endlag decreased slightly.

Jab 3 - Damage increased slightly. Slightly improved IASA.

Dash Attack - Knockback greatly reduced. Interuptable on hit.

==TILTS==

Forward Tilt - Endlag decreased.

Up Tilt - Startup speed increased.

Down Tilt - Startup speed increased. Sourspot hitbox spikes. Endlag decreased.

==SMASHES==

Forward Smash - Speed increased slightly. Added windbox to charge animation. Windbox added at end of attack.

Up Smash - Windbox added to back end of attack.

Down Smash - Trajectory lowered on both hits. Windboxes added to both hits. Improved IASA.

==AERIALS==

Neutral Air - Aerial endlag decreased. Landing lag decreased.

Forward Air - Improved autocancel window. Windbox added on Landing animation. IASA frames added to Landing animation.

Back Air - Aerial endlag decreased. Landing lag decreased.

Up Air - Gains upward vertical momentum if "A" is pressed repeatedly. Landing lag decreased slightly.

Down Air - Spiking hitbox duration increased slightly. Cancelable by Special Attacks after a certain point. Landing lag decreased slightly.

==GRABS/THROWS==

Standing Grab - Unchanged.

Dash Grab - Unchanged.

Pivot Grab - Unchanged.

Pummel - Speed increased.

Forward Throw - Endlag decreased slightly.

Back Throw - Unchanged.

Up Throw - Damage increased. Knockback increased. Added fire element.

Down Throw - Damage increased. Knockback decreased. Added knockdown element. Endlag decreased slightly.

==SPECIALS==

Neutral Special - Charge animation cancelable by shield. If charge is held for ~3 seconds, will store a Full Charge Eruption upon next use(if canceled with shield). "Prepare Yourself!" SFX played when Full Charge is able to be stored. If charge is held for longer than 3 seconds, or if Ike charges while he has a Full Charge stored, Ike will incur self-inflicting damage. Full Charge self-inflicting damage raised to 20%.

Side Special - Charge animation cancelable by shield. Attack animation interuptable at any time. Aerial Dash animation interuptable at any time.

Up Special - Heals Ike 5% on hit from landing hitbox.

Down Special - SFX delayed to denote start of "counter frames." Counter attack knockback increased slightly. 1/25 chance of OHKO attack. "You'll get no sympathy from me!" SFX played on successful OHKO execution.

==OTHER==

Attributes - Unchanged.
Lots of good, of course, no bad change would ever seemingly be added too any charcter.

Legend of "AT's" (Ike - specific only)(Feel free too give better names, just using these as basics
-Wind spiking: Simply hit with both hitboxes of Fair (The actual sword slash, and the wind hitbox generated when it hit's the ground) too either cancel there momentum and stop them a short distance infront of you, or near the ledge, too send them down in a soft spike

-HUair: Short for Hovering Up-Air, Done by mashing the Attack button while using Uair, creates a simple hovering momentum used during free fall (including the momentum from Side-B), a small propulation upward used after a jump, or a large propulation upward during a jump (depending on how fast you mash)

-WaveDraw: Labeled WD, A powerful wavedash motion done by inputting an attack immediately after an aerial QuickDraw near ground level, Ike will slide forward, allowing all ground inputs too be done will sliding, with the exception of Down Smash, Up-B and Side-B which stops all momentum, and Down-B...well, I'll get to that in a second. Can stop momentum by turning around hard (enough to run)

-Counter Draw: Using the above technique, once you hit the ground simply Down-B and Ike will zip across the stage even faster and farther. There are 3 versions of it
->Forward Counter Draw: The average slide, goes a bit far, but nothing crazy. Simply hitting Down-B will work
->Forward Reverse Counter Draw: Strongest Slide, capable of sliding across all of FD. Angle Down-B slightly too the opposite side of the dash, and he'll turn around and slide.
->Reverse Counter Draw: This is easily the strangest, Ike will immediately stop all forward momentum, turn around, and Wavedash about 1/3 of FD the other way. Done by mashing Down-B the other way from your forward slide. Can end up facing both ways, but no noticable slide difference. Named Delta Attack due to the triangle movement displacement from start too finish. Im unsure how long counter works in the slides, would appreciate testing on the actual counter part of this technique





So let's look at the preliminary Pro's/Con's (subject too change, please contribute/decontribute too this list as seen needed)

Pro's
-Powerhouse
-Jabbing game is even greater, and can be followed safely into more things (Grab, Dtilt, Dsmash, Utilt)
-Lots of IASA/Cancel's for ease of comboing
-Quick Draw slash can be cancelled, giving Ike a much safer approach then before
-Speaking of Quick Draw, no longer are you helpless in the air after it, plus any action can be used immediately after, including repeated Quick Draw's
-Recovery VASTLY improved
-Can charge Neutral-B for a near OHKO you can store and combo into
-Smash attacks and Fair if missed have wind gust added on, making them safer of whiff. Also much faster ending lag


Con's
-Larger character frame, so easier to combo
-Recovery can be predictable (by Brawl - standards anyway)
-Combo's are harder to intiate on lighter floatier characters (Im looking at you Midgetmar)


That's all I can think of atm, so feel free to touch up or add anything you find is appropriate

-Combo's

In general:
Jab 1-Jab 2-Jab 3
Jab 1-Jab 2-Dtilt
Jab 1-Jab 2-Utilt
Jab 1-Jab 2-Dsmash
Jab 1 repeat
Jab 1-Jab 2-Jab 1- Jab 2 repeat ( both of those two can be used before any simply follow up there, given size and DI)

BnB's:

Character (type) specific combo's:

(On heavy/fast fallers) Low percent start- SHFF Fair->Dash attack->Jab 1->Jab 2->Dtilt

(On larger human sized+ characters) SHFF Fair->SH Bair

There are still a lot of combo's and such I want too test and such, so this will be updated in greater detail over time


Videos:
Must be current Brawl - version

Too be done: A lot

-Kill percents
-Combo list update
-Videos needed
-Moveset compendium
-Match-up's


Ty too
-Xyless for the potrait
-The entire Brawl - team for making this wonderful game
-Sakurai for giving us an easy to hack fail game too improve
 

Jam Stunna

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I'll try to help out on some of the things that need to be added to the guide.

I don't know if this is a legit combo, but I've been getting dash attack canceled into usmash to work against computers and humans.
 

comboking

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Multiple QuickDraw in the air is fun.
Over B to Aerials is awesome.
I'll have a video of Ike tricks up sometime.
 

Nelo Vergil

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Tried the Dash too Usmash, cant get it too connect at all (on ZSS)

Also thanks for the potrait, hopefully I can actually manage this thing if Crashboards doesnt crash again X_X

Gonna update the combo section when I get back from work, Im 99% sure most of what I put up are true combos, though I appreciate any one testing them out a 2nd time (and boy, do Lvl 9's make it annoying too test)
 

[TSON]

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Note that if you SHFF a fair and hit with the hitbox and the windbox at the edge of the stage, the foe will fall straight down and still be in hitstun.

So you can proceed to FF bair them and stagespike them :B
 

Nelo Vergil

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I noticed that, though Ive yet too follow up for a stage spike yet (still learning the Quick Draw physics). Quick Draw is amazing combined with Nair and Fair, Dair isnt great except offstage (but its not crazy good), havent tried Bair, and Uair and it make the nice surprise kill off stage.

At the very least, we're ahead of the other characters atm
 

Nelo Vergil

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Ugg, this site has been majorly annoying me. A few things I want too ask/discuss

-Combo, that combo you mentioned, I tried it, but I couldnt get close to landing the Dair, the Bair's
connected just fine though

-Should I bother doing a moveset compendium sorta thing, with detailed percents, knockbacks, average kill percents and such. If I do, can someone link me too one of the better ones, so I have a good structure too use

-This one more goes out too all the minus community, or should I say lack there of. I know we were just released, but compared to our neighbour Plus, how can we help attract more people into our ranks, it'd help out the team Im sure if we can help get the word out of how amazing it is, likely they think its just like normal Brawl but stuff is even more broken, making it stupid outside casual play.
 

comboking

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When I did the DAIR it didn't spike plus my bro might not have DI'd good enough if at all. I don't think it is a combo with the DAIR anyway.

Labeled WD, A powerful wavedash motion done by "Inputting what?" either immediately after an aerial QuickDraw near ground level, Ike will slide forward, allowing all ground inputs too be done will sliding, with the exception of Down Smash, Up-B and Side-B which stops all momentum, and Down-B...well, I'll get to that in a second. Can stop momentum by turning around hard (enough to run)



If you QD close to the ground and NAIR you do a nice slide.

About the second thing you should make a moveset compendium and I would like to help.
 

Nelo Vergil

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My bad, fixed it

Were the two standard Counter dashes really in vBrawl? I mean who the heck uses Counter right after the few rare times you actually get Quickdraw too slide you like that. Have you guys tried it yet btw, its really simple with the B-stick, and easy too see the effects. At the very least, it stays on the AT list since it's all actually usable now rather than pure luck using our crappy recovery in vBrawl.

Ok, where do we start combo?

EDIT: I feel like such a tool...I was so proud of it too =/. Well, atleast its more useful since it can be done regularly in Brawl -
 

comboking

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I play Ike in vBrawl and we call that counterdraw.

Zero most of the moves do the same damage as before we could start with kill percents?
 

Nelo Vergil

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I was Canada's best Ike, yet I did not know that. I feel a little ashamed by that, but considering I dont bother with guides and such, I guess its natural...being so out of the loop though sucks @_@

Kill percents would be a good place to start. How would we get exact data though
 

comboking

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It wouldn't be exact. But go to training mode start at 100% and start doing moves increase or decrease the number slightly depending on if they died or not. Or we could try on wifi some how.
 

Nelo Vergil

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There's the whole training mode staling thing though is the problem. Does any move do one damage, if so, it might be possible to test with 3 people accurately
 

comboking

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I could do a few characters Zero. Most of Ike's moves do the same damage as in Vbrawl by the way.
 

Nelo Vergil

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I remember you said that BPC, however, does that apply for training mode as well, and allow precise data to be acheived, or is there still that slight difference between Vs and Training that vBrawl has
 

Sinz

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I recorded about 10 matches last night of my Ike vs a local players Falcon. I think you guys will like them. (: I am not home right now but I will be uploading them once I get back. (: Multiple 0 - death combos inside of them (:
 
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