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Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

HeroMystic

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I can see this match-up as being even worse than DDD's. Falco really has everything over Ike.

Speed, Projectiles (especially with short-hop laser spam), a chaingrab, a super-fast reflector that will outright destroy Ike's approaching, and gimping ability. Falco has a slightly better air-game as well, but Ike can manage in the air if he can get close.

This is nowhere near a neutral match-up. I may even say it's 8-2.

If you get sent up high, probably just be better to use QD (Oh joy)... x_X
If you get sent up high, you're better off just moving back to the stage, air-dodging his attack (which is likely going to be his spike) , and grabbing the ledge. QDing back to the stage will either get you into a full-hop laser spam, or watching yourself fall into Falco's U-smash.
 

Kinzer

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The only problem being that Ike has a lot of lag on his aerials, so he can't stay in the air for very long.... D:
Work around that I guess, Ike has stupid long range on his Fair, his Nair probably serves as a "meteor" when you want to assault Falco and go on the aggressive, Bair has dangerously nice knockback, and as for the other two is probably not recommanded since offstage fights are at Ike's disadvantage if you look at it, and unless you time/position yourself right trying to go for a star-K.O. with Uair will only get a spiked Dair to the face. (I should probabably ask how it will be possible to space your aerials correctly, Falco has the shield of you screw up as well as a bunch of other stuff at his arsenal that i feel too lazy to mention at the moment.)
 

•Col•

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I can see this match-up as being even worse than DDD's. Falco really has everything over Ike.

Speed, Projectiles (especially with short-hop laser spam), a chaingrab, a super-fast reflector that will outright destroy Ike's approaching, and gimping ability. Falco has a slightly better air-game as well, but Ike can manage in the air if he can get close.

This is nowhere near a neutral match-up. I may even say it's 8-2.



If you get sent up high, you're better off just moving back to the stage, air-dodging his attack (which is likely going to be his spike) , and grabbing the ledge. QDing back to the stage will either get you into a full-hop laser spam, or watching yourself fall into Falco's U-smash.
I meant if you were up like really high... xD Even then that's really bad.... But if you try to drop down, Falco can shoot a few lasers at you. You can air dodge them or get hit by them, then use your second jump to get your momentum toward the stage again... However, whatever one you do, I believe Falco has enough time to jump out (Assuming he just doesn't spam B and shoot a few off, timing them correctly) and hit you with an aerial to either reset the situation, or kill you...
 

metroid1117

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Eww... Falco... I lost the match for 2nd at my first (and only so far) Brawl tourney to a Falco user :(. (Rat was too good with chainthrowing and I was too bad with meteor recovering.)

IMO this is definitely a match-up in Falco's favor. His chaingrab works from 0-45%, and even then he can dash attack into an USmash (I know it as DLX combo, but I've heard over names for it). If he gets you with a DThrow at the edge, you better be ready to recover with jump when he goes for the spike. Thankfully, Ike's vertical distance with up+B is good, so meteor recovering shouldn't be TOO hard with some practice. However, even with the chaingrab, he can still shut you out with lasers and reflector, taking out the option of approaching from the air and the ground.

To get around Falco, you're going to have to revolve your approach around what he's using to shut you out. Combine jumping with airdodging along with dashing and shielding to try and get close. Thankfully, Ike is a great character at punishing rolls - read the enemy the best you can and punish accordingly.

A decent Falco will always DI up so that they can drift to the stage and Phantasm (is it still called that? side+B, w/e); a smart Falco will always go for the edge with Phantasm. If you notice a Falco Phantasm'ing into you because you're too close to the edge, run away from the edge and hit them with a reverse USmash next time; they'll wise up their game, but not after that first hit or so. If they don't have their jump (say... you knocked them out of it with FAir or something) and they're above 100%, try getting them to side+B into your UAir if it's fresh; the hitbox stays out for a VERY long time (there should always be one at his hands) and it's very powerful; it kills grounded opponents at the same % as USmash if both attacks are fresh and the opponent does not DI. The obvious risk, however, is that you'll get spiked; thankfully, you should be good at meteor recovering and the Phantasm spike isn't that powerful. UTilt may be a better option, but I'm reluctant to openly advocate it without personal experimentation.

When a Falco's on the edge, they'll usually use their double jump to edgehop some lasers - that's when you step in and use Dash Attack to send them out for an easy gimp. Facing away from the edge then smashing your control stick towards the edge and dash attacking with the C-stick is probably the best way to surprise them.

If you're knocked off-stage against a laser-happy Falco, a very *very* *VERY* risky way to get around that is to quickly jump and start charging Quick Draw; as soon as they fire a laser to your level, you can try QD'ing into the laser for some horizontal distance. The major problem though (besides the risk of an embarrassing SD), is that it depends on them being slightly off; they should shoot the laser so that when you fall you'll run into it. However, you do not fall when you use (not charge) QD; this means that if they aimed accurately, you'll probably go over the laser. I have not tried this out personally, but I thought it would be interesting to throw out.

Thankfully, Falco has a slightly difficult time killing you, save for his FSmash; USmash, BAir, and DSmash aren't particularly strong, but they are very fast, so watch it.

You definitely want to avoid picking FD for this match-up and, in my opinion, Yoshi's Island; while the stage is small and favors Ike in that sense, a Falco on the ground floor has an easy time camping from across the stage because of the middle platform and the uneven ground. The middle platform also tilts, which can negate your usual platform = pwnage mentality. I would personally choose BF; the platforms give you more room to work with, and the lipped edge can help you ward off Falcos if they're spamming lasers too close to the edge. However, take my counter-picking advice with a grain of salt; I'm not very good at the art of counterpicking, picking BF for ALL my match-ups :laugh:.
 

YagamiLight

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metroid appears with a giant post, as always, haha.

Personally, I'd say the match-up isn't in Ike's favor by any means and it's not neutral either. The weights are on Falco's side. But how much is the question? Not a whole lot, I think.

In any case, I'm going to have a slightly busy weekend, but if I get enough good posts I can make a nice, intelligent write-up by Sunday I think.

Also, I added in more pretty colors to the character articles. You can never have too much color.
 

JST

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This match-up is pretty bad. Like around 7:3. 8:2 is pushing it, but now that I think about it, it's plausible.

Falco's attacks and motion are all very fluid and very very VERY fast. A good Falco will be very entertaining to watch, and the player who is fighting Falco (In this case Ike) will notice that it's ****ing hard to approach Falco because Falco is almost never vulnerable.

VERY IMPORTANT. Lasers are a nuisance. Because of this, Ike is FORCED to approach. Not only do they harass Ike at long ranges, but they lead into very good set-ups at close-range. Falco will laser at every appropriate opportunity, because SHDL is annoying and SHL is very hard to punish because Falco can do anything instantly upon landing. You'll also see nair with the lasers sometimes. SHL > Gatling combo > nair > Utilt, SHL > nair > utilt, SHL > Utilt > Utilt > nair, SHL > Usmash, SHL > Grab, SHL > dash attack-canceled pivot grab, SHL > Fsmash, SHL > Shine.... I could go on and on and on.

Falco's jabs are wicked. If he catches you off guard he will jab cancel into a CG. And even if he doesnt cancel, his jabs rack up a lot of damage and are hard to punish if you are hit.

Falco is decent on the ground. It's not where he excels, but his main kill moves are his Usmash (Which is instant - you'll be seeing this done out of a SHL if you're hit) and Fsmash.

Ike wants to stay in the air for this match-up because of his superior range. However, Falco pursues people in the air deceptively fast and will be in Ike's face with a bair/dair/nair/uair in an instant.

BTW Ike should NOT camp on platforms to avoid lasers. Falco will just nair you into oblivion because Falco's nair is amazing for punishing platform-campers. Not only that, it is lagless in the same way that Falco's SHLs are.

You'll be seeing a lot of combos (Not technically combos but w/e) from Falco. Ike gets hit hard because he doesn't have very good gtfo moves in the air (Except for maybe Eruption).

The SHINE. You'll hate it. It outranges a lot of things Ike has.

Falco's spotdodges and rolls are extremely quick, and Spotdodge > Dsmash is even faster than Meta Knight's. This further augments Falco's overall slipperiness and difficulty of approaching.

Falco's >B recovery may be bad, but it's very hard to gimp unless you're DDD or Donkey Kong or something. If you're playing a campy Falco, you'll see this used as a getaway tactic. Even if the Falco isn't campy, you'll see this used occasionally as a surprise attack.

I haven't even mentioned CG > Spike yet. This is just the icing on the cake for Falco.






I don't want to list any Ike advantages because I know other people will do that and it's late right now so arhagrargh..

Edit: For the love of god do NOT let Falco take you to Jungle Japes.
 

XACE-K

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Another hard Ike match-up. I'll say it's 3-7 Falco's favor.

- Watch out for his chaingrab, projectiles and d-air for obvious reasons.

- I like smaller stages in this match-up because Falco can't camp as much on them.

- Punish his Up-B if he's coming up from below the stage.

- Do NOT touch his bread.

Thst's it for now.
 

Nidtendofreak

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I personally think this is Ike's hardest match up. Falco does have everything going his way in this match up except range (when not counting projectiles), and aerial game (not counting projectiles).

First of all, his CG -> Spike. While Ike is one of the few people who can go through this and survive thanks to Aether's SAF, it will still take you to borderline killing range after its all set and done. Try not to get grabbed, but you probably will, as he will force you to approach with SHLs.

SHLs. A major pain in the rear. Against a good Falco, you WILL take damage from these. There are just to many of them not to get hit. A SHL at point blank leads into a free Upsmash, so watch out for that at higher %s, as that will KO you fairly easily. Try to approach from the ground, less lasers can hit you that way, and you can at least attempt to power shield them. Of course, once you get in too close, you can expect the reflector to come into play.

Reflector AKA great spacing move with little lag that can potentially set up a laser lock if it causes you to trip. A good Falco will be SHRing when you get in to close. Shield when at Maximum range. If you perfect shield it, this might be one of the few times where QDing would be recommended. A quick tap QD will bring you right into his face, but I believe it won't hit. From there, you have a free AAA, or maybe even a AA->Dtilt spike off of the stage. But that would be one in a million.

Assuming you get pass the lasers and reflector without getting CG'd, you'll have his smashes to deal with. Dsmash is fast and sends you horizontally, which is a REALLY bad thing for Ike if that includes off the stage. You can try to sidestep it, and if you do, you can probably punish it with AAA. His Upsmash isn't exactly a slow poke either, and has high KOing power. Easier to punish though as it has more lag. Of course, Falco could just Hypen-Smash with it and take care of the problem that way, which wouldn't be nearly as easily to punish. Might be able to shield -> pivot grab it though. Luckly, it KOs upward, which Ike is more resistant to then a KO off of the stage. His Fsmash is his slowest one, but is fast compared to your Fsmash. You can see it coming when he puts both of his hands behind his head and begins to step forward. Shield and punish. It knocks you at a 45 degree angle forward most of the time, but I've had it knock me at a 45 degree angle downwards. It was really weird, and I've only see it once, but it killed me at an amazingly low % as I went flying off of the stage.

As for the rest of Falco's ground game: If caught in his AAA, DI away from it and then ftilt. It would really suck if he got you against a wall if it though.......not sure how you could get out of that one easily. Ftilt is fast, little lag, but not as strong KOing wise as his other moves. Dtilt has speed, but nothing else. Utilt can probably juggle you at low %s, but that would need testing. His dash attack can lead into any of his smashes or the reflector, depending on your %, so watch out for that. Phantom Dash can be used as a mean of escape out of your range, or a quick attack. It's like your QD in most ways though, except better, minus the ending lag, which is worse. It goes through people, can be shortened to avoid flying off of the edge, spikes if it hits in the air, and has less start up time.

All is not lost on the ground though. It just takes a LOT of dodging and a LOT of patience. He will eventually get cocky, or fall into a pattern, in which case, you punish it with quick attacks. I doubt you will ever use Fsmash or Usmash against a Falco player, unless they really screwed up something, like accidently FireBird'd straight up or something stupid like that. Grabs are your friend at low %, while Ftilt is at higher %s.

In the air, you have a small edge here when he's not blasting you with lasers and reflectors. The only real air move to watch out for at lower %s is Bair, which has some serious kick to it with little lag. Dair of course spikes, but you can keep him from hitting you with that with Aether or Nair if over the stage. His nair is only useful for attacking through platforms safely. Fair is only dangerous if all of the hits connect. DI down and away from it, then punish with Uair. Speaking of Uair, Falco's Uair has some kick to it, but a fairly small hit box. Your dair should be enough to discourage him from using it.

Falco's recovery is only slightly less predictable then yours. If he's fair away, he's going to go for a Phantom sweetspot. This doesn't mean it's easy to stop though. It's really about timing it just right so you nail him mid flight. Good luck with that. Eruption might be able to do it, maybe dtilt, but that would take some serious timing skills. If he's closer to the stage and under it a bit, he's going to FireBird to the ledge. This one is a lot easier to time the Eruption for. When there is a slight pause in the sound from his attack, plunge down the sword, cover the edge and the surrounding area in flames, and watch him fly right into it. If he's perfectly vertical with the edge, SHDair him to his death.

For stages, avoid FD like your life depends on it. Lylat Cruise can help a bit with it's tilting to screw up his Phantom recovery, but can also aid his lasering. BF is probably the safest choice, but still not good. Luigi's Mansion would be kick butt against Falco, as it would stop his lasers and CG, and you can rack up some damage quickly against him. Just don't let that happen to you....

And that is my not-so-pro evaluation of the match. >_>
 

MysticKenji

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Reflector AKA great spacing move with little lag
I hope you're only talking about start-up here

that can potentially set up a laser lock if it causes you to trip.
You can't be locked out of a trip animation

It would really suck if he got you against a wall if it though.......not sure how you could get out of that one easily.
DI up and mash jump

Dair of course spikes, but you can keep him from hitting you with that with Aether or Nair if over the stage.
Aether has start-up
Falco dair does not
lol off-stage nair...just AD

If he's closer to the stage and under it a bit, he's going to FireBird to the ledge.
If he firebirds, edgehog him
 

Nidtendofreak

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1) Yes, start up. The ending lag won't hurt Falco much if you get hit by it though. >_> I was poking around the Falco boards and found out the reflector doesn't hit on the way back, just another thing to keep in mind.
2) The animation? No. Once you land? Yes. It's simply something to keep in the back of your head. It would be foolish to ignore this possibility.
3) I wasn't sure on that one, I thought it was DI up, but didn't put it down.
4) You can start up Aether and get the SAF before the Dair hits, unless he was right on top of your head, in which case, why weren't you Uairing? And I was talking about Dair onstage, in which case, Nair would work. Obviously no one in there right mind would Nair off stage.
5) I believe Firebird can stagespike if it hits you just right. Edgehogging is obviously an option. I was stating other options.
 

MysticKenji

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2) The animation? No. Once you land? Yes. It's simply something to keep in the back of your head. It would be foolish to ignore this possibility.
Uh...no.
Trips don't work that way.

5) I believe Firebird can stagespike if it hits you just right. Edgehogging is obviously an option. I was stating other options.
You have 10 years to grab the ledge >_>
Firebird can, but shouldn't stagespike you
 

Kinzer

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I spam up B when a Falco is chain grabbing me and I still get spiked. I break out of it and reach the ledge though but I don't think it activates before it hits you.
I find myself spamming Aether when I am getting CGed by a Falco, if they screw up which I am guessing all my Falcos have, they will be "TOO SLOW!" and get sent upwards allowing me some air to breath.
 

metroid1117

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Falco is decent on the ground. It's not where he excels, but his main kill moves are his Usmash (Which is instant - you'll be seeing this done out of a SHL if you're hit) and Fsmash.
FSmash is most definitely a kill move, but USmash isn't particularly powerful, if I recall correctly; Ike should be able to survive past 110% with good DI.


JST said:
Edit: For the love of god do NOT let Falco take you to Jungle Japes.
Quoted for truth: decent Falco + Jungle Japes = instant loss. Laser camping, chaingrab -> spike, and Phantasm tricks with the edges allow for Falco to dominate the stage.

Nidtendofreak said:
First of all, his CG -> Spike. While Ike is one of the few people who can go through this and survive thanks to Aether's SAF, it will still take you to borderline killing range after its all set and done. Try not to get grabbed, but you probably will, as he will force you to approach with SHLs.
Survival because of SAF frames? If the Falco is fast enough, the hitbox for Aether won't even come out, let alone give Ike enough time to throw his sword.

Nidtendofreak said:
All is not lost on the ground though. It just takes a LOT of dodging and a LOT of patience. He will eventually get cocky, or fall into a pattern, in which case, you punish it with quick attacks. I doubt you will ever use Fsmash or Usmash against a Falco player, unless they really screwed up something, like accidently FireBird'd straight up or something stupid like that. Grabs are your friend at low %, while Ftilt is at higher %s.
If a player falls into a pattern, you can punish it with anything, not just quick attacks. A spammy/campy Falco, for example, is very likely to either roll, sidestep, or Phantasm to avoid your attacks. USmash absolutely dominates people who roll behind you, and charging it for a split second dominates sidesteppers as well. In my opinion, the only things you should be doing on the ground are jabs, grabs, USmash (to punish rolls/spotdodges), and the occasional QD if they mess up their spacing - FTilt seems too easily punished by a character like Falco, who, like you said, has his Reflector to out-space you and lasers to shut you out.

Nidtendofreak said:
In the air, you have a small edge here when he's not blasting you with lasers and reflectors. The only real air move to watch out for at lower %s is Bair, which has some serious kick to it with little lag. Dair of course spikes, but you can keep him from hitting you with that with Aether or Nair if over the stage. His nair is only useful for attacking through platforms safely. Fair is only dangerous if all of the hits connect. DI down and away from it, then punish with Uair. Speaking of Uair, Falco's Uair has some kick to it, but a fairly small hit box. Your dair should be enough to discourage him from using it.
BAir is very fast, but it is not as powerful as you make it out to be; you should be able to survive it past 100% from the middle of any stage easily if you DI properly. The same is the case for UAir; it's nowhere near as powerful as Fox's.

Nidtendofreak said:
Falco's recovery is only slightly less predictable then yours... If he's closer to the stage and under it a bit, he's going to FireBird to the ledge. This one is a lot easier to time the Eruption for. When there is a slight pause in the sound from his attack, plunge down the sword, cover the edge and the surrounding area in flames, and watch him fly right into it. If he's perfectly vertical with the edge, SHDair him to his death.
Short-hopping DAir (instead of Eruption) and walk-off DAir (instead of short-hopping DAir) cover both options and are, in my opinion, easier to connect with. What I don't like about Eruption is that if you miss, they auto-sweetspot the edge and are free to punish you with whatever they want. If you miss the spike with DAir, they take damage and might even die if they are above 125% (they die on the ground from a non-sweetspotted DAir around 115% at FD). If you miss completely, you can always jump and Aether onto the stage and get a possible Aetherspike if they're sloppy - you'd be too low for them to safely spike you.

I'll just copy+paste my original input on this match-up; I don't think it was read because it was one of the last posts on the previous page and because I proposed a very risky recovery option that no one has commented on.

metroid1117 said:
Eww... Falco... I lost the match for 2nd at my first (and only so far) Brawl tourney to a Falco user . (Rat was too good with chainthrowing and I was too bad with meteor recovering.)

IMO this is definitely a match-up in Falco's favor. His chaingrab works from 0-45%, and even then he can dash attack into an USmash (I know it as DLX combo, but I've heard over names for it). If he gets you with a DThrow at the edge, you better be ready to recover with jump when he goes for the spike. Thankfully, Ike's vertical distance with up+B is good, so meteor recovering shouldn't be TOO hard with some practice. However, even with the chaingrab, he can still shut you out with lasers and reflector, taking out the option of approaching from the air and the ground.

To get around Falco, you're going to have to revolve your approach around what he's using to shut you out. Combine jumping with airdodging along with dashing and shielding to try and get close. Thankfully, Ike is a great character at punishing rolls - read the enemy the best you can and punish accordingly.

A decent Falco will always DI up so that they can drift to the stage and Phantasm (is it still called that? side+B, w/e); a smart Falco will always go for the edge with Phantasm. If you notice a Falco Phantasm'ing into you because you're too close to the edge, run away from the edge and hit them with a reverse USmash next time; they'll wise up their game, but not after that first hit or so. If they don't have their jump (say... you knocked them out of it with FAir or something) and they're above 100%, try getting them to side+B into your UAir if it's fresh; the hitbox stays out for a VERY long time (there should always be one at his hands) and it's very powerful; it kills grounded opponents at the same % as USmash if both attacks are fresh and the opponent does not DI. The obvious risk, however, is that you'll get spiked; thankfully, you should be good at meteor recovering and the Phantasm spike isn't that powerful. UTilt may be a better option, but I'm reluctant to openly advocate it without personal experimentation.

When a Falco's on the edge, they'll usually use their double jump to edgehop some lasers - that's when you step in and use Dash Attack to send them out for an easy gimp. Facing away from the edge then smashing your control stick towards the edge and dash attacking with the C-stick is probably the best way to surprise them.

If you're knocked off-stage against a laser-happy Falco, a very *very* *VERY* risky way to get around that is to quickly jump and start charging Quick Draw; as soon as they fire a laser to your level, you can try QD'ing into the laser for some horizontal distance. The major problem though (besides the risk of an embarrassing SD), is that it depends on them being slightly off; they should shoot the laser so that when you fall you'll run into it. However, you fall less than what you normally would when you use (not charge) QD; this means that if they aimed accurately, you'll probably go over the laser. I have not tried this out personally, but I thought it would be interesting to throw out.

Thankfully, Falco has a slightly difficult time killing you, save for his FSmash; USmash, BAir, and DSmash aren't particularly strong, but they are very fast, so watch it.

You definitely want to avoid picking FD for this match-up and, in my opinion, Yoshi's Island; while the stage is small and favors Ike in that sense, a Falco on the ground floor has an easy time camping from across the stage because of the middle platform and the uneven ground. The middle platform also tilts, which can negate your usual platform = pwnage mentality. I would personally choose BF; the platforms give you more room to work with, and the lipped edge can help you ward off Falcos if they're spamming lasers too close to the edge. However, take my counter-picking advice with a grain of salt; I'm not very good at the art of counterpicking, picking BF for ALL my match-ups .
 

XACE-K

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I spam up B when a Falco is chain grabbing me and I still get spiked. I break out of it and reach the ledge though but I don't think it activates before it hits you.
I'm pretty sure every Ike would do that when getting CG'd. Unless they're dumb.


Not necessarily "always," my contribution to the Zelda match-up was very small and only about SDI'ing out of her attacks >.>. In any case, I only write about the match-ups I feel I have a hold on. It'd be bad to spread false information >.>.
Once again you made another giant post lol.

So what are some good counterpicks against Falco? I like smaller stages for some reasons but that's just me.
 

Kinzer

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I'm pretty sure every Ike would do that when getting CG'd. Unless they're dumb.




Once again you made another giant post lol.

So what are some good counterpicks against Falco? I like smaller stages for some reasons but that's just me.
And you're right Xace, small stages supposedly make Falco's lazer camp easier to deal with, but I'm pretty sure some of the more "active" stages like frigate make it somewhat more complicated or something I dunno.
 

•Col•

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I'm pretty sure every Ike would do that when getting CG'd. Unless they're dumb.




Once again you made another giant post lol.

So what are some good counterpicks against Falco? I like smaller stages for some reasons but that's just me.
Someone already said Norfair... That sounds like a pretty good idea... Not that hard to avoid laser spam... Can't chaingrab you that much... If you get dair spiked from one of the higher platforms, it's easier to just Aether onto the ledge of one of the lower one (at least, I think it's possible)...

Obviously, you don't want pick a stage with walk-off sections like Green Hill Zone, Yoshi's island, Castle Siege or Delfino(he can spike you under the water here as well)...

For neutrals, Battlefield or Lylat Cruise sounds good... Lylat Cruise can screw with Falco's recovery a bit... Platforms make it easier to avoid being grabbed and laser spamed...

Meh... I'll think of more stuff later...
 

Kinzer

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Huh, really...well then, Norfair seems alright, I thought for whatever reason it was banned because of the lava and stuff but that's fine too.
 

HeroMystic

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Gonna have to go with Brinstar and Norfair. Brinstar because the stage can save you from getting spiked, Norfair because it can isolate the stage and mess up Falco's groove. Also, it limits chaingrabbing.

Isle Delfino is okay. Gives more cons to Falco and less to Ike.
 

YagamiLight

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Due to the wealth of information posted, I'm fairly certain I can write up a giant post soon. If I work diligently...I may have it up before I go out today. Stay tuned.
 

Kinzer

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Hey Yagami give us your opinion on Falco before you do anything, we just want to see what's your personal opinion first.

I think his bread is what gives him his strength, he won't let anybody else try him, and his Pizzacake is only for those who go to Chuck E. Cheese's and pay for it. XD
 

YagamiLight

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Hey Yagami give us your opinion on Falco before you do anything, we just want to see what's your personal opinion first.
Hah, my opinion? Sure thing (And call me Light!):

I think that Falco is a very good character, no questions asked. He is already solid, and a chaingrab on the entire cast just makes him even better. He's gifted with a long range projectile and nice close combat moves as well. He also has a very good spike. Whenever I play a Falco as Ike, I try to capitalize on three things. The first is that he's really light, and as such Ike can kill him early. The second is that, outside the Down Aerial, he either has weak kill moves or a slow one (the forward smash). The third is the doubly predictable AND poor recovery (Similar to Ike's predictable and mediocre one). If he tries to Firebird, I edgehog. If he tried to Phantasm, try to predict and punish, essentially. I think that Ike outshines Falco on the ground and slightly in the air, but he's going to need to work hard to expose those weaknesses past the projectile and the chaingrab. I'm not too keen on numbers, but depending on how you look at it, it's anywhere from 4-6 to 3-7, Falco's favor.
 

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Alright awesome, well, do what you gotta do Light, and let us know who our next match-up shall be on *cough Samus cough*.
 

MysticKenji

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Colaya, what does the scouter say about Norfair's legalty?!
Different areas have different stages legal. (SBR list is only a recommendation)
Norfair might be banned in Vegas.
It isn't here in FL, though.

don't get hit

Let us know who our next match-up shall be on *cough Samus Olimar cough*.
Fix'd.
I think we should get our 3 horrid matchups (DDD/Falco/Olimar) out of the way.
 

Kinzer

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True, but the pillars are a stage Hazard you can take care of, things like LC and Norfair are things you just have to downright avoid.
 

YagamiLight

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If we get Olimar out of the way, the rest of the match-ups are smooth sailing for Ike. My main problem is finding a cool picture of Olimar. I'll see what I can do.
 

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I find the cover for the Pikmin 2 game on the NGC an alright picture.

Not sure what else you would want to use though.
 

Arturito_Burrito

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It's a bad idea to write up a match up so quickly. I finally finished my stage guide against Falco as well but haven't updated it because of SWF being down for the past 2 days and atm it is like super laggy for me taking like 10 minutes to load a page.

Colaya, what does the scouter say about Norfair's legalty?!
To me these past 2 pages seem quite spammy and there are still a lot of people to add there opinion of this.

Also stop asking for samus just because some guy came in here and fought everyone doesn't mean we should do her match up next. It will cause for very biased opinions since many of the people who fought against xyro have never fought against other competitive samuses before.

edit: brinstar is a very good Falco stage. More proof to not write the guide yet.
 

Kinzer

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Well, what's your opinion on Falco then? It feels like we've covered most if not all about how a good Falco would play vs Ike.

I had to ask about the stage; I never knew where to find the legalty of them until Colaya gave me a link. Better to know late than never.

Alright, alright, no need to get so angry about it, but even if what you say is true, we still can't simply ignore it. Xyro probably beat the living **** out of us because we don't get many if any fights vs Samus, and this can happen to anybody where they are going to lose a matchup in a tournament because they haven't prepared for it, I'm not saying we HAVE to do Samus but it should be something to think about for the future.
 

YagamiLight

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I see no particular harm in waiting another day or so for more match-up opinions. It'll probably allow me to make an even bigger post on Falco, in addition to more people able to give their opinions. One match-up per day seems kind of intense, in any case.
 

Kinzer

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If it helps you be more formal with the Falco match-up, by all means feel free to wait Light. It was probably not to much of a big deal since to me it feels like we've covered up Falco pretty good, I can't see how any other Falco would try and play seeing as how that's how they all play to win. Somebody like Olimar might be a little more complex because some people can play him differently, for example someone might work with different Pikmin or just go with what he/she has, and might take more than 1 day to deliberately debate on.
 

HeroMystic

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I think everyone missed my suggested of Luigi's Mansion as a counterpick to Falco. >_> Pillars = no SHLs.
Until the mansion breaks down. After that the stage is pretty much like Final Destination if not worse.

I guess the pros outweighs the cons though.
 

Arturito_Burrito

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I wasn't angry just saying theres no reason to do samus right now there are many unused characters that we lack pratice with it doesn't mean we should do one every day its actually better to get rid of the difficult and most used ones sooner.

I'll write up my thoughts on Falco later on because of the whole SWF lagging for me thing.
 

XACE-K

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I think his bread is what gives him his strength, he won't let anybody else try him, and his Pizzacake is only for those who go to Chuck E. Cheese's and pay for it. XD
That's why you should never touch his bread. If you do, you'll get ***** by Falco.

I think we should get our 3 horrid matchups (DDD/Falco/Olimar) out of the way.
I agree.

I think everyone missed my suggested of Luigi's Mansion as a counterpick to Falco. >_> Pillars = no SHLs.
Once the mansion gets destroyed, Ike is screwed.
 
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