If you could replace the Jet Hammer as it is with any move, what would you replace it with?

[A Rogue Cop]

The Jet Hammer, Dedede's down special, is pretty universally considered to be useless, or at least limited to a few very specific situations. So what could we replace it with?

Personally, I would keep the Jet Hammer but change the move to resemble this move he performs in Revenge of the King:

I imagine it would allow you to move around quickly while using it and have a large hitbox, at the expense of having a large amount of cooldown at the end. It could possibly serve to cover your enemies landings or maybe cause havoc in 2v2 or free for all matches.

Any other ideas?

 

[SalsaSavant]

When I saw this, I thought it meant from other characters.

Was going to say Spin Attack. Because fast D3 is scary...and I'd imagine it would combo well into Nair.

 

[axelalexzander]

The Jet Hammer, Dedede's down special, is pretty universally considered to be useless, or at least limited to a few very specific situations. So what could we replace it with?

Personally, I would keep the Jet Hammer but change the move to resemble this move he performs in Revenge of the King:

I imagine it would allow you to move around quickly while using it and have a large hitbox, at the expense of having a large amount of cooldown at the end. It could possibly serve to cover your enemies landings or maybe cause havoc in 2v2 or free for all matches.

Any other ideas?

That seems cool but it seems very similar to Dedede's Down Smash. I'm thinking it would be a redundant move.

If I had to choose...an unreflectible projectile that could be used in neutral would be amazing. I'm trying to think of something lore appropriate that actually exists in the Kirby games...maybe Dedede fills up his belly and blows out a gust of air? He can attack that way in Kirby Super Star I believe.

 

[toadster101]

Literally anything. Give him a counter for all I care. Anything is better than the Jet Hammer. It's arguably the worst move in the game.

 

[SalsaSavant]

Literally anything. Give him a counter for all I care. Anything is better than the Jet Hammer. It's arguably the worst move in the game.

Spinphony then!
Spinphony for everyone!

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Literally anything. Give him a counter for all I care. Anything is better than the Jet Hammer. It's arguably the worst move in the game.

I present to you 's PK Magnet.

----

I don't really mind the Jet Hammer, but if I had to say, I think something related to Dedede's Drum Dash would be neat. Maybe he would pull out a drum and hit it, causing a small shockwave around him. This could either have a strong windbox or damage to strengthen his already deadly edgeguarding game or as a nice little gtfo me in neutral.

 

[IsmaR]

Brawl Dedede's B-air

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Brawl Dedede's B-air

I'm a little confused on what you're implying. Elaborate?

 

[IsmaR]

I was answering the question in the title.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Orlly?

No, what I meant was how are you saying it would work? Since bair is an aerial, how would that work on the ground? It seems like a silly response, I just want to know your thought process.

 

[DarkestNoon]

Let him throw out Waddle Dees like his old side-B. Meat shield for easier gordo tossing? Yes please.

 

[SalsaSavant]

Let him throw out Waddle Dees like his old side-B. Meat shield for easier gordo tossing? Yes please.

You know, I would happily give up on Dtilted Gordos if it made him throw Dees instead.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Dedede doesn't need another attack! What he needs is even MOAR ways to taunt his opponents! Like his crouch! But instead, I say that we replace his down B with. . .
. . . Wait for it. . .
THE BIG GAY DANCE!

 

[SalsaSavant]

Ooooh. What if he could throw out Gordo and Dees, but hitting a Dee with a Gordo would redirect it?

 

[MintChipper]

When i get home I'm gonna boot up Triple Deluxe to try and find any moves, if it was a counter it had better be a cool one like Shulk and Greninja's.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Making it a spinning attack similar to ROB's side b? Hmm, I could see that.

The real answer, to me, would just be to combine the traits of all three jet hammers- the walk speed and power of default jet hammer, the speed boost and range of Dash Jet Hammer, and the armor from Armored Jet Hammer. Just make sure to give it enough cooldown to stop it from being abusable.

 

[Jatayu]

I could see him hiding in fear behind using a waddle doo as a meatshield and it uses it's beam attack as a counter. Like Peach's toad. But we don't need no stinkin' counters! Why not shoot rockets from our hammer? Or use it as a flamethrower? Or use it to send shockwaves out on the floor?

Speaking of Jet Hammer, why is kirby's hammer so much better than ours? Pretty sure every single one of his hammers are better than ours. That's just all kinds of wrong.

 

[MioTinto]

What about having him pick up the Masked Dedede hammer and shooting fire or rockets at his opponents with it? We seriously need some proper projectiles to keep opponents at bay.

 

[Texfone]

Instead of Jet Hammer... Jet Hammer Ride!

He'd turn his hammer upside down, hold onto the bottom of the handle, and jet hammer ride around quickly like the bike.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I swear fully charged jet hammer can break a shield in 1 hit
..can it?
Im sure i did so here...

Can some1 confirm?

 

[Texfone]

I swear fully charged jet hammer can break a shield in 1 hit
..can it?
Im sure i did so here...

Can some1 confirm?

I just checked on my wii u, it does not 1-hit shields, almost, though.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I just checked on my wii u, it does not 1-hit shields, almost, though.

Sp it probly does the same ammount of shield damage as DK's Side (B) Headbutt.

It REALLY should brake shields in one hit
..come on...
It need to charge..slow mobility...huge end lag too when let of when fully charged..

Should break shields in 1 hit..

Ganon and Bowser can..
And DK eats shield with Down (B) & Left (B)

 

[Putuk]

Maybe he could throw bombs, I'm fairly certain he did that in a few games.
Or he could summon a Waddle Dee/Doo, that wanders the stage, might attack and meatshields for you.
Maybe he could summon other minions, like a Bomber. That would basically combine both of my previous ideas.

Most people in this thread are taking really obvious choices. Try thinking of something more outlandish.

 

[ZeThundaRippa]

Maybe he could throw bombs, I'm fairly certain he did that in a few games.
Or he could summon a Waddle Dee/Doo, that wanders the stage, might attack and meatshields for you.
Maybe he could summon other minions, like a Bomber. That would basically combine both of my previous ideas.

Most people in this thread are taking really obvious choices. Try thinking of something more outlandish.

His car from Kirby: Right Back At Ya?

 

[SleuthMechanism]

either keep jet hammer but turn it into something different and cool like literally anything masked dedede did with it or give him back the waddle dees back as his new down special.(that wuld actually be really interestig.. both waddle dees and gordos on the same moveset. would definitely create some neat mindgames..)

 

[Eggggggggggbert]

OKAY GONNA LAY DOWN SOME ABSTRACT IDEAS HERE, IT'LL REDESIGN DEDEDE'S PLAY COMPLETELY BUT HERE IT GOES.

REPLACE THE SIDE B WITH BRAWL'S WADDLE TOSS BUT BUFF THE AI AND THE HEALTH AND DAMAGE THAT THE GORDO AND LASER-EYEBALL DO. MAKE DEDEDE'S DOWN B A DANCE SIMILAR TO HIS FINAL SMASH IN BRAWL THAT PULLS THEM BACK TO YOU SO YOU CAN RETHROW THEM. ITS SORT OF LIKE PIKMIN. YOU CAN HAVE 3 DUDES OUT AT ONCE, THEY HAVE TO BE FULLY DEAD BEFORE BROUGHT BACK OUT AGAIN.

TRYING TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. ITS BY NO MEANS WELL THOUGHT OUT AT ALL.

edit-
REPLACE THE REGULAR WADDLE DINGUSES WITH THE SPEAR ONES, SO THEY CAN UNLEASH SOME FURY OUT THERE

 

[kAffo]

I don't know but this was my idea. You know has a lot of moves concepts and moves of spinning his hammer, right? Well I thought he could use a similar trait to spin his hammer around in his hand, making his hammer based moves (Bair, Dsmash etc.) have a slight buff,something similar to 's Deep Breathing or Hakan's Oil in USF4.
I thought could come potentially come in 2 different forms:

1. These hammer based moves would simply have increased damage and KB output.
2. The hammer based moves would all become multi-hit moves (idk about U-air) greatly enhancing the damage outputs while keeping the KB the same. I believe this could potentially open up some more combo opportunities, and even perhaps augment his spacing and pressure game.

I would imagine that he would begin spinning the hammer in his hand similar to his Side taunt, obviously the longer he does this, the better the initial enhancement. It would then make sense for the player to be able either cancel it early by tapping shield, similar to when cancelling out of the fruit charge, only giving the selected portion of the upgrade. Or it could simply reach it's limit then cancelling on it's own, again very similar to 's Deep Breathing. Also this enhancement would only last a small amount of time (10 secs?)
I would imagine making the opponent antsy and resort to a misguided excessively defensive playstyle to outlast the time, trying to remain unscathed. Similar to how people react to Wario Man. You could then potentially take advantage of this weak point in the opponents playstyle, and capitalise.

That may be a little too good of a move for him, but hey..... I'm not here to balance.

tl:dr - D3 spins hammer, all hammer moves are better, for a while.

 

[Eggggggggggbert]

I don't know but this was my idea. You know has a lot of moves concepts and moves of spinning his hammer, right? Well I thought he could use a similar trait to spin his hammer around in his hand, making his hammer based moves (Bair, Dsmash etc.) have a slight buff,something similar to 's Deep Breathing or Hakan's Oil in USF4.
I thought could come potentially come in 2 different forms:

1. These hammer based moves would simply have increased damage and KB output.
2. The hammer based moves would all become multi-hit moves (idk about U-air) greatly enhancing the damage outputs while keeping the KB the same. I believe this could potentially open up some more combo opportunities, and even perhaps augment his spacing and pressure game.

I would imagine that he would begin spinning the hammer in his hand similar to his Side taunt, obviously the longer he does this, the better the initial enhancement. It would then make sense for the player to be able either cancel it early by tapping shield, similar to when cancelling out of the fruit charge, only giving the selected portion of the upgrade. Or it could simply reach it's limit then cancelling on it's own, again very similar to 's Deep Breathing. Also this enhancement would only last a small amount of time (10 secs?)
I would imagine making the opponent antsy and resort to a misguided excessively defensive playstyle to outlast the time, trying to remain unscathed. Similar to how people react to Wario Man. You could then potentially take advantage of this weak point in the opponents playstyle, and capitalise.

That may be a little too good of a move for him, but hey..... I'm not here to balance.

tl:dr - D3 spins hammer, all hammer moves are better, for a while.

While I generally think this is creative and I love the look of 3D spinning his hammer in his hands diabolically, I do not think Dedede needs more power. The King has some strengths and some weaknesses, those weaknesses are pretty damn big and I'm not sure making one of his only strengths better is the correct way to balance him.
Increasing the combo-ability of his moves would be good but I'm not sure the more casual players would understand the usefulness.

 

[kAffo]

Yeah as I said, just an creative idea. I can definitely agree it could definitely affect his balance as a character. But again it was only a thought

 

[Ol' King Dedede]

What I really need instead of a jet hammer is:

 

[Axel311]

I think we have to be realistic here with any future jet hammer buffs. They might replace it in a future smash 5 game, but they're not going to completely replace a move with something entirely different in an upcoming smash 4 patch.

I think the best we can hope for in this game is a reduction in charge time and a reduction in ending lag.

But I very much hope they replace it in the next smash game.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I don't think the move needs to be replaced, it just needs some serious fine-tuning. I don't know if it was actually considered good in PM (I thought it was), but PM's jet hammer basically corrected all of the move's flaws. It gave it light armor so you could charge through some attacks at full charge, they boosted the range of the attack, it propels Dedede forward some based on the level of charge, and it's still a generally powerful move.

Which, it should be noted, Dedede has all of that in this game...it's just split up among his three down b variants. GG Sakurai.

 

[zapfish]

I don't think the move needs to be replaced, it just needs some serious fine-tuning. I don't know if it was actually considered good in PM (I thought it was), but PM's jet hammer basically corrected all of the move's flaws. It gave it light armor so you could charge through some attacks at full charge, they boosted the range of the attack, it propels Dedede forward some based on the level of charge, and it's still a generally powerful move.

Which, it should be noted, Dedede has all of that in this game...it's just split up among his three down b variants. GG Sakurai.

I was basically going to say just replace it with custom 3 and it'd actually be a decent move. I think dedede has some objectively better customs for all but one move, being his inhale. I personally would just want fine tuning as you said, realistically the best we can hope for is some end lag reduction, charge speed increase, and/or more shield damage or something (not sure how hard it hits shields right now, not a main)

For the sake of creative choices though, if I could replace it, then maybe down b doing gordos and side b becoming an air ride reference using wheelie similar to wario's bike, but instead of the bike doing heavy collision damage, you can swing your hammer while on the bike for the heavy hit. Ignoring technical balance details because it's not gonna happen so I don't care, but something with wheelie would be cool, weather it worked like Clown cart, egg roll, rollout, or wario's bike, anything similar would be alright with me.

 

[Endurrr]

How about a better jet hammer?

 

[Doc Monocle]

Perhaps he could inflate as he often does canonically. While inflated on the ground, he merely exhales to push the opponent back with minor damage. However, in the air, this move functions as a stance. The appearance is similar to that of his double jump. While inflated, he descends much more slowly, has a dramatically enhanced maximum air speed, and dramatically lowered aerial acceleration, making him harder to control where precision is needed, but enabling him to extend his air time, damage an opponent by colliding with them, bounce off of surfaces, endure very light attacks without flinching, and transition into one of the following attacks before entering a helpless fall:

A: Dedede quickly exhales to exit the stance. The dispelled air attacks opponents similarly to the grounded version, and King Dedede helplessly falls.

B (tap): Dedede's sash opens, revealing and chomping with now exposed 'teeth,' as it does in certain Kirby games. King Dedede helplessly falls afterward.

B (hold): Dedede's sash opens, revealing an eye that launches a dark orb that slowly follows the nearest opponent, as it does in certain Kirby games. King Dedede helplessly falls.

By moving the control stick up, the stance cancels without a helpless fall, restoring Dedede's normal mid-air physics.

 

[Oracle Link]

B (tap): Dedede's sash opens, revealing and chomping with now exposed 'teeth,' as it does in certain Kirby games. King Dedede helplessly falls afterward.

B (hold): Dedede's sash opens, revealing an eye that launches a dark orb that slowly follows the nearest opponent, as it does in certain Kirby games. King Dedede helplessly falls.

But dedede in smash isnt Possesd by a certain someone and if he was his eyes would be always closed and he would be evil (i mean i kill you evil)

 

[Doc Monocle]

But dedede in smash isnt Possesd by a certain someone and if he was his eyes would be always closed and he would be evil (i mean i kill you evil)

That is a good point. Perhaps we could exclude the Shadow Dedede attacks, and simply leave the rest intact.