If They Didn't Hate Me Before, They Will Now: Vayseth's Official Chaingrab Thread

[LouBega]

have you played against a good ness ever? i don't know if it's me and that i suck at chaingrabbing (which is entirely possible) but chaingrabbing ness is difficult. if you don't time it perfectly he can jab before you get in your next grab. i guess you should test this out since you probably have the timing down better than me.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

This guide is amazing. And all that just covers ONE MOVE!!!!! It's soooo good.

To bad I can't put it to use. The tournies I go to ban even the small step CG.

"All infinites are banned. Well, except the Ice Climbers, because when two people infinite, it's just a team combo."

I hate that so much. Again, very nice guide.

 

[DanGR]

Cool thread. Nice job.

So if I read this correctly, DDD has no guaranteed followups on Olimar besides an ftilt if he doesn't tech roll?

 

[Commander_Beef]

Cool thread. Nice job.

So if I read this correctly, DDD has no guaranteed followups on Olimar besides an ftilt if he doesn't tech roll?

That's correct...
Just a guarenteed forward tilt, that's it. The rest is just by mindgaming or doing an attack at a necessary time.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

So, I messed around with this Yoshi thing for, like, ten minutes. I tried having Yoshi DI in the three cardinal directions toward Dedede, toward, and both diagonally up and down. I went into a Vs. battle and did nothing but D-Throw, but still nothing. Then I noticed that after a dash grab, Yoshi didn't have as much knockback as before, you can see that in the vid. I still couldn't regrab, but I think this is a start. Maybe I'll look into it some more later today.

As for now, GH Smash Hits.

 

[CRASHiC]

have you played against a good ness ever? i don't know if it's me and that i suck at chaingrabbing (which is entirely possible) but chaingrabbing ness is difficult. if you don't time it perfectly he can jab before you get in your next grab. i guess you should test this out since you probably have the timing down better than me.

Actually, nearly every character can do this if you don't get the chaingrab right. There are 2 ways to get rid of this problem.
1. Get the chain grab timing down.
2. Shield cancel grab so that when the jab you, it hits your shield.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Vayseth I have a correctiom for the ones who can be mindgamed by a down tilt after a ground break animation.
I tested on everyone there and Meta Knight is not in range of a down tilt, just Olimar, Mario, Kirby, Lucas, and Ness (which is everyone else). So you should take Meta Knight off that list .

EDIT: Nevermind I tried again with him in "Attack" mode and it worked lol...

 

[Saltix]

Whatever happened to that Pivot Grab CG?
I never even saw what it looked like

 

[SimaMatt]

Awesome guide, I love the title too. The Delfino house thing (where the left is a walkoff and the right can potentially ko some characters if you pummel release them) is really interesting. If it's cool with you I'll see what chars die from the right from a grab release and who doesn't. I have too much time like that, haha.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Whatever happened to that Pivot Grab CG?
I never even saw what it looked like

Uhh..there's no such thing. King Dedede is too slow.
The closest we can get is doing a regular chain grab then hope the guy spotdodges, and we run passed them and do pivot grab, that's it.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

He was talking about the CG the Marth boards found Mr.Beef.

The Pivot Slide cancel one.

 

[Vayseth]

So if I read this correctly, DDD has no guaranteed followups on Olimar besides an ftilt if he doesn't tech roll?

"...if he doesn't tech roll" doesn't apply here either. F Tilt is a natural combo (meaning you can't avoid it) even if you tech.

Awesome guide, I love the title too. The Delfino house thing (where the left is a walkoff and the right can potentially ko some characters if you pummel release them) is really interesting. If it's cool with you I'll see what chars die from the right from a grab release and who doesn't. I have too much time like that, haha.

LOL, if I had 12-16 hours to write up this, I don't think I can complain about people with too much free time XD I only remembered this while I was writing it. I was grab releasing Omniswell's Wolf like I usually do on the edge, only to realize there was no edge, and he died. Whether he died IMMEDIATELY or not, I'm not sure. Try Air Breaks and Pummel breaks.

He was talking about the CG the Marth boards found Mr.Beef.

The Pivot Slide cancel one.

Links? I'm pretty interested.

 

[Commander_Beef]

He was talking about the CG the Marth boards found Mr.Beef.

The Pivot Slide cancel one.

Oh yeah that one...
I hope you're enjoying the thread smexy lol.

 

[T3h Albino]

wow.....Good stuff man
i can't wait to practice some of this
^_^
oh and that dumb pivot cg doesn't work =/
dedede doesn't slide far enough for it to work
marth does though.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

OP the Halberd does have a walk off and 2 walls in the beginning 11 seconds of the stage.

When the match starts out, the entire arena is flat. About 3 seconds into being on that stage, the platform appears from a shaft under the players. Once the 'primary' platform completely rises up [about 4 second into the match] 2 walls are available inside that shaft the platform raised out of. That shaft has a door that closes over top of it shortly after the primary floaty platform comes up.

Situational as it might be, definitely something to keep in mind.

 

[Cassius.]

Jesus...wow. Good job!

 

[Commander_Beef]

oh and that dumb pivot cg doesn't work =/
dedede doesn't slide far enough for it to work
marth does though.

Look at Smexy-Blu's quote -_-...
Was already established albino.

 

[Vayseth]

I'm still waiting for links =)

D.E., I gotcha.

 

[T3h Albino]

I think i just discovered an infinite on wario 0-o
uhmm
when you air release him over the edge
dash dance and then regrab
don't pivot grab just dash dance > dash grab
the timing is really strict but im pretty sure it works
also when pummel releasing wario over the ledge it puts him in a terrible position
if he releases next to the stage you can hit him with a bair to stage spike
if he releases away you can bair wop him for a potential kill

 

[Vayseth]

Isn't that almost the same thing? Actually, it is. I covered that in the Wario controversy section lol.

And yes, grab release after chaingrab is *REALLY* good.

 

[T3h Albino]

thats grab out of 2nd jump
what im saying is you can just cg him until he's over the ledge
let him air release
dash dance to dash grab
and regrab him before he gets out of the animation

 

[Vayseth]

I think Wario can input commands before then.

 

[T3h Albino]

ill test it again tommorow but i dont really have a good partner to try it on so
if anyone else can itd be appreciated
it's just a thought after all v-v

 

[Vayseth]

No, if you get it to work I'd really like to know. I've heard rumors that Wario can input commands even before the U Tilt will land. Mainly, Wario cannot get out of the hit, but he can do a fart (which has super armor) and will take damage from the U Tilt, but you could very well die from it. I have never seen this happen, only heard it rumored.

So, please, test with all your might. I'd love to know. Have your friend mash on the C-Stick or something. Try everything!

 

[Commander_Beef]

also when pummel releasing wario over the ledge it puts him in a terrible position
if he releases next to the stage you can hit him with a bair to stage spike
if he releases away you can bair wop him for a potential kill

I don't think he'll fall that far down before he becomes unparalyzed for you to stage spike him. Don't do "stop" mode in training if that's what you were doing albino.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

also OP, after checking my notes, i count 8 walls at Delfino plaza. Out of the 9 transformations. 4 of them have guaranteed 2 walls. The rest either have walks offs with/without water.

Out of those 4 with the 2 walls; 2 of these transformations have walls facing inwards. 2 of them have walls facing outwards.


I've got these notes in a word document if you wanna see them op. Just MSN me anytime.

 

[Tero.]

also OP, after checking my notes, i count 8 walls at Delfino plaza. Out of the 9 transformations. 4 of them have guaranteed 2 walls. The rest either have walks offs with/without water.

Out of those 4 with the 2 walls; 2 of these transformations have walls facing inwards. 2 of them have walls facing outwards.


I've got these notes in a word document if you wanna see them op. Just MSN me anytime.

It's indeed 8 walls.

General Stuff about the Stage:

• There are 9 places where the moving platform can land
• 5 of the 9 places have water
• 7 walkoff edges in 4 places
• 8 walls in 4 places

 

[Dark 3nergy]

^^^ ok as long as i know i can count and believe me i hate math so much you'd think i cant count at all

also OP im sorry im ********, there infact 4 walls in Halberd...

Heres the first set of *~**~*WALLS**~~*~ [we already talked about these sexy pairs]

here is the second

Ok about the second pair of delicious walls you see here...unlike the first set the second set above reappear since the stage will cycle between; being on the ship and being in the air. Every time the floaty platform, makes contact with the halberd these 2 walls appear for about 5-6 seconds.

uuh..give me a few min so i can count how long the transformation phases last [god help me its MATH]

ok heres what i got..


7:47 we're on the floaty stage flying around the Halberd

6:41 is when the float stage makes contact with the Halberd, thats when those walls, ontop of the halberd ship appear.

6:35 walls completely gone

4:32 the floaty platform comes up out of the ship, those 2 walls also reappear here again but its risky to use those walls. Might be more difficult to even use them due to the bottom blast zone coming up very quickly when this transformation happens.

4:27 the floaty platform is back in the air again [with a bottom blast zone under it]

I personally do not believe that the game has it hard wirely set for it to transform back into the floaty platform at 4:32... i think its dependent on what hazards are fired off of the Halberd itself. For my test i got; Beam Canon, then Claw, then Bomb, then another Bomb. Then it transformed back into the air platform.

 

[Kitamerby]

On a side note, I don't recall reading you noting that when grab releasing, people don't get back their second jumps, even after pummels, which can be pretty much death on certain characters if you factor in the distance of some releases.

 

[SimaMatt]

Ah, well, if we're talking about halberd walls, then I think Port Town needs some mention (despite nobody playing there ;_; it's a legit stage...).

Despite the appearance, this is actually a walkoff: http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1379/29895533nv2.png . I know the transformations don't last long at all in Port Town so that's why I didn't mention it in my first post...but if the halberd walls are getting mentioned, might as well post this.

There's also a walkoff here: http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5876/92461448lq0.jpg to the right. The left is a wall, however cging here is VERY dangerous because the cars can randomly appear without warning, and if you're in the middle of the cg you won't be able to get to the safety zone in time. In the aforementioned area, you can see the cars coming if you keep an eye on the background, so it's probably more practical to attempt a walkoff cg there.

Here's the thread I referenced for the pictures: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217615 (Kirk is amazing <3) There are also three sets of walls in that stage, Besides the one I mentioned earlier, they should be pretty obvious as to which are the walls and which aren't.


Also...I tried doing the air release and pummel release on wolf on that delfino area...but he didn't die, instead he was given enough time to recover. I didn't test to see if Wolf's recovery was so bad that he only had one way to get back on, but I wouldn't be surprised (His recovery is almost as bad as Link's...). I think it could work as a surprise, but probably only once. I got the same results with Diddy Kong, too. I didn't bother testing the other characters, but I imagine Link can get gimped pretty easily in that area.

Hope that helps.

 

[Vayseth]

PM me exactly what you would like me to put (read: quick summary) for those stages and I'll C+P and of course credit you for it.

I'm glad you brought up the grab release to no second jump bit. I found out you can CG Wolf to Air Break and there's nothing he can do but die. You just read when he's going to either side B or Up B back, quick edge hog, and he's DEAD after EVERY CG at ANY percent.

One grab = death with DDD. Believe it.

 

[Commander_Beef]

On a side note, I don't recall reading you noting that when grab releasing, people don't get back their second jumps, even after pummels, which can be pretty much death on certain characters if you factor in the distance of some releases.

This really formidable fact only applies to when you regrab them after they jump to the stage right? When they've already used their jump in that area?

 

[Kitamerby]

This really formidable fact only applies to when you regrab them after they jump to the stage right? When they've already used their jump in that area?

Yeah. If you catch them as they try to jump back to the stage, an air break/pummel break won't refresh their jump, and they'll be left with only an up-B

 

[Jupz]

Its the same as just hitting them out again. If they don't touch the ground, they don't get their jump back.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Understood...thank you comrades.

 

[sMexy-Blu]

Doctor X Puma (08:00:41 a.m.): i found out that if fox DIs up when you dthrow near the ledge you can small step cg him
mRsMex9698 (08:01:05 a.m.): Ima steal it from u
mRsMex9698 (08:01:08 a.m.): and post it
mRsMex9698 (08:01:11 a.m.): MAUAHAHBAHAHAHAHAHAHA XDDDD
Doctor X Puma (08:01:16 a.m.): do
Doctor X Puma (08:01:18 a.m.): not
Doctor X Puma (08:01:19 a.m.): wtf
mRsMex9698 (08:01:21 a.m.): XDDDD
mRsMex9698 (08:01:24 a.m.): Ill give u creidt
mRsMex9698 (08:01:27 a.m.): ill just copy paste this
Doctor X Puma (08:01:31 a.m.): ...
mRsMex9698 (08:01:34 a.m.): dumb
Doctor X Puma (08:03:40 a.m.): <_<

 

[Gates]

AFIAK that happens with most non-CG characters when they DI up after a dthrow. Not small step necessarily, but still can be a normal cg sometimes.

 

[AtotheZ]

Wait... Dedede has a chaingrab?

 

[Jupz]

Wait... Dedede has a chaingrab?

lolwut? i hope this is a joke...

 

[Gates]

Wait... Dedede has a chaingrab?

I was shocked too.