If Super Smash Bros. was true to canon: a tier list - Updated 9/12/18

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#1
Update
9/12/18
  • New rules added.
  • Dr. Mario and Miis aren't part of the tier list.
  • Pokémon Trainer has access only to three Pokémon, all of which will be starters at their third evolution. This means Charizard is out.

Introduction
A tier list true to canon for Super Smash Bros. seems to have started during Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Then there was another for Super Smash Bros. 4. Neither of these were actually finished, and it took more than a year to work on. This was mainly due to having two characters pitted against each other per week, and the format was set up as a tournament bracket. There was an agreement on who could end up being top or high on the tier list among those who debated, but the tier lists for each game at the time was never completed. Below is a list of those I think could end up being top-tier. I am not going to assume it's in that order, however. Considering I'm only familiar with two characters, I'll focus on them. Anyone interested can provide reasons for their selection. Also, feel free to list more than just the ones I've listed below. I'll give my input when I can.

Rules
1. Non-composite incarnation
All characters are restricted to certain items, upgrades, abilities, &c. No character is in a composite form, i.e., a form that combines all items, upgrades, abilities, &c. from every installment in the series. To simply settle this, use only the best incarnation from the series.
Ex.: Young Link doesn't have access to the items he acquired in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. He only has access to what he acquired in The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask.

2. Non-canon sources
Sources that aren't considered canon, i.e., not officially accepted as part of the story are not allowed. Reboots, reimagining, retroactive continuity, or the like take precedence.
Ex.: Mario Party isn't canonical, so any feats from it and its subsequent games aren't allowed.

3. No access to restricted buffs
If an item, upgrade, or ability can only be acquired by completing a certain difficulty, attaining a certain rank, being granted such things by friend or foe during battle, or anything similar, that item, upgrade, or ability is not allowed.
Ex.: Samus acquires the hyper beam during the battle against Mother Brain from the Metroid. She would not have access to it here.

4. No outside help
Outside help is considered to be assistance from anyone capable of acting on their own volition. This includes minds that are artificial, natural, spiritual, &c. Exceptions are made if and only if such minds must do as they're told and lack any volition of their own. Summons appear to lack volition of their own.
Ex.: Pit lacks the power of flight, since he cannot be assisted by Palutena or Viridi.

 
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Diddy Kong

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#3
Calamity Ganon proves that Ganondorf isn’t all that powerful really. He can be hurt by regular things, and certainly things that Mewtwo would be able to dish out towards him. Calamity Ganon is also Ganon at his very strongest. So that settles things quickly.

In general, Mewtwo is full of hax because of a few moves he learns as Me First, which allows him, if predicted right, to use a attack his enemy would use back at them with either 1.5 or double the strength. Are we gonna allow him to have more than 4 moves? Cause then it’s set.

I don’t know what Cloud is capable of, neither Dark Samus, but am down to learn. Bayonetta seems pretty powerful however, not sure if she’s better than Mewtwo just yet.

Ness is also powerful as ****. And I believe Ike and even Donkey Kong should also be at least in “High Tier”.

So far I always was a firm believer that Mewtwo got this in the pocket. Especially if we consider RBY Mewtwo.
 

Narigo1

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#4
:ultshulk:-killed a god who created the Xenoblade 1 & 2 universe
:ultbayonetta:
:ultness:-went toe to toe with Gigygas who became one with the universe
:ultsonic:
:ultcloud:-withstood Sephiroth's supernova attack
 
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Luigifan18

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#6
SSS...............(lots of S's)SSSSS::ultkirby: (No I'm not kidding play a Kirby game)
S::ultbayonetta::ultshulk::ultsamus:/:ultdarksamus::ultpalutena::ultrob::ultrosalina:
A::ultsonic::ultlucario::ultmewtwo::ultkingdedede::ultmetaknight::ultness::ultlucas:
B::ultcloud::ultcorrin::ultzelda::ultbowser::ultzss::ultgreninja::ultinkling:

Aaaaand that's where things stop being relevant
Mewtwo is definitely S tier, Charizard is in the B tier with Greninja (or maybe both of them are A tier), R.O.B. is clearly garbage tier, and... why the hell are Mario, Luigi, Pit, and Robin nowhere in sight?!?
 
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gzmee

Smash Cadet
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New Jersey
#11
Guns aren’t really all that impressive when compared to the superhuman strengths demonstrated by a large portion of the cast.

The only superhuman thing Snake had was his booty, and he lost most of that anyway.
True, but he'd have to be around a C tier. You put a bullet through a lot of the cast's skulls, and they're gonzo. The f*ck is normal *ss Little Mac gonna do against a bullet? Exactly. Nothing.
 

Mariomaniac45213

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#12
Donkey Kong would be pretty high. He punched the freaking moon out of orbit onto DK Island with one single blow, Has grabbed a Gorilla 5 times his size and threw him overhead, has stood on a falling asteroid in space while fighting an evil Kong and didn't die.

Rosalina simply because when Bowser destroyed the entire Galaxy she had the power to create a brand new universe.

I could think of many more if I wasn't tired and could put my thinking cap on.
 

GreenKirby

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#13
People really overestimate Mewtwo. Remember, in canon, (the games) it's a wild animal like most other Pokemon.

And as for some of the characters that defeated gods:

Ness- Was ineffective against Giygas until someone else used the prayed

Bayonetta- If Jubileus had both eyes, Bayonetta couldn't have won (assume that Bayo wasn't one of the eyes)

Shulk- Zanza
was pretty much screwed because he can't survive without his other half

And even then, what playable character hasn't killed a god, a powerful demon, or some other cosmic horror?
 
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Sonsa

Smash Lord
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1,782
#16
:ultvillager: Villager can sort of canonically time travel and mess with their reality as they see fit...? I wouldn't normally count it, but characters mention it, warn of it, and suffer consequences for it, so...

Ooh, after a catch, they can fearlessly show off things like scorpions and sharks - AND, I don't know if it's the heaviest in the game - but Villager lifts up Whale Sharks with one hand and the game canonically lists them at around 275 inches aka like 23 ft, and that's heavy, that's one-handed, and Villager is strong.

Also they can like...carry anything in their pocket. Beds, statues, cars, puts em in their pocket and leisurely walks away. That's strong. That's canon.
 

Amazing Ampharos

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#17
This is always a silly topic in part because the one obviously correct greatest character is consistently neglected. The single most powerful character to the point that "everyone else together is a joke" is obviously :ultgnw:.

Mr. Game & Watch doesn't really have much we can discern from the actual G&W series, but what we see in Brawl's SSE is pretty convincing. For those who didn't follow that plot, what happened was that Tabuu extracted the LCD fluid from G&W to create the Primid army. At some point late in the plot, you recruit G&W himself by rescuing him and he's absolutely 100% of what he ever was... but the Primid army still exists which incidentally is a pretty massive group of guys. This gets down to the single most broken power I think in all of fiction that G&W alone possesses. G&W can violate the law of conservation of matter and simply create additional matter from himself without limit. He uses this when fighting in Smash too; where else could you begin to explain his various tools he spawns (turtles, packages, signs for Judgment Hammer, the crew for Fire, etc.) come from? For anyone who isn't versed in physics, it might not be as obvious why this is insane, but remember that G&W has mass and that the force of gravity is proportional to how much mass is present. Since G&W can just spawn infinite amounts of mass, he could at a whim simply spawn enough material to create a universe ending black hole thanks to the extreme gravity. None of these other characters can begin to match this.

I'd also like you to consider that G&W is truly 2d. He has absolutely no thickness at all, and yet he still is able to freely move about a 3d world. This has a lot of implications. A truly 2d object would be infinitely sharp. In combat the obvious advantage is that he could cut any material by applying almost no force; he just has to make contact to slice through anything. However, a secondary implication is that he should by logic slice through the ground and instantly sink to the center of the Earth, but clearly he does not. This suggests that G&W can arbitrarily float which I suppose explains why when he's using Fire there seems to be no conservation of momentum pushing the Fire crew downward when G&W is thrown upward (G&W can just move upward freely). Likewise G&W's plunging dair must use these properties; other characters with plunging dairs presumably make themselves more aerodynamic, but since G&W is perfectly flat, he's also always optimally aerodynamic so his ability to alter his fall speed can only be explained as a special ability to negate yet another fundamental law of physics at a whim. Broken stuff.

Speaking of him being 2d, let's look at some other implications. As an infinitely thin object who is also absolutely pitch black. no light at all would refract off him; he would be invisible to all of the other fighters. You might consider that those with psychic powers could detect him, but how would that work? My understand of what psychic powers are supposed to be is some sort of special brain powers in which you use some sort of a wave from your brain to interface with an opponent's brain, but since brains are 3d objects, clearly G&W's mind works via completely different and not understood mechanisms so it seems more plausible than not that he would be simply immune to all of the psychics. Even if he has some strange 2d analogue to a brain, how could a normal psychic possibly be equipped to interface with it? In terms of other interactions, even if someone were directly orthogonal to him, you have to consider his thinness from another angle. Things like sound waves or the wave properties of any particle would have a wavelength infinitely larger than his absolute zero thickness. It's unclear if there's any physical mechanism initiated by a 3d object or person that could possibly even detect his presence. Exerting a force on him might also be a tricky process, but since we do see he's highly rigid, perhaps that would work a little better so long as you approached from the flat side... not that you'd ever know he was there before he destroyed you at his leisure.

Lastly, as though he weren't already totally outclassing everyone else, consider his movement. Most other characters move by translating their location from one position to another in a smooth way, but we see very clearly that G&W simply instantaneously teleports in a sort of stuttered "frame by frame" animation. If you consider what this means on an instantaneous basis, it means that G&W can impart infinite velocity upon himself for brief periods of time. Since he possesses mass, infinite velocity means infinite momentum. Infinite momentum means infinite force. G&W can impart literally any amount of force he wants at any time; it's the only possible conclusion one can draw from his method of movement. Of course his sharp side would instantly simply slice any material even with very low force, but his flat side could likewise just break any material freely by exploiting this property. If you consider quantum mechanics, this gets even more extreme. Remember the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The more precisely an object's speed is known, the less precisely its position is known. By imparting infinite speed upon himself, it would seem that the uncertainty of his speed goes to zero which would mean the uncertainty of his position goes to infinity which means his individual particles would simultaneously affect the entire universe at once. Unlike other things here, this isn't clear and seems like something that doesn't happen; G&W already freely breaks several fundamental laws of physics so it's possible he is able to function completely outside of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, but that is also an insane property as it would suggest that in interactions between his particles and the particles of the rest of the universe his simply impose their properties freely and completely override the properties of everything else changing the basic mechanics of the entire universe to suit his existence. The second is a plausible interpretation; presumably this is why Flat Zone flattens anyone who visits? Yeah, don't try to tell me someone like Kirby is on this level; G&W can't even merely just destroy the universe but also rewrite its laws to his own convenience...

Now you could say "clearly G&W is just a fun character and they didn't consider the massive basic physics problems his existence suggests", and I'd say, sure that's true. However, the premise of the question of who is the most and least powerful I believe presupposes that every character must somehow exist, and assuming G&W exists as he's depicted in Smash can only allow for him to be effectively all powerful in a way beyond even what fiction usually suggests is a god. Therefore, G&W himself ends the question either way. You can deny considering seriously the implications of what he is and deny the question has value or you can consider it and place him at #1 in such a commanding fashion that the ranking of every other character seems uninteresting. Maybe almost everyone loses when we think this way, but at least :ultgnw: reigns as champion.
 

Oddball

Smash Ace
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#18
One time Mario destroyed the sun by throwing a turtle shell at it.

That strikes me as pretty upper tier.
 

IronTed

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#20
I'd just like to point out Dark Samus survived a planet collapsing on her. Also, according to scan data "Bioscans suggest that Dark Samus can reform her body short of total atomic disruption". This is ignoring how stupid OP phazon is. So yeah, DS would be up there to say the least.
 
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#21
This is always a silly topic in part because the one obviously correct greatest character is consistently neglected. The single most powerful character to the point that "everyone else together is a joke" is obviously :ultgnw:.

Mr. Game & Watch doesn't really have much we can discern from the actual G&W series, but what we see in Brawl's SSE is pretty convincing. For those who didn't follow that plot, what happened was that Tabuu extracted the LCD fluid from G&W to create the Primid army. At some point late in the plot, you recruit G&W himself by rescuing him and he's absolutely 100% of what he ever was... but the Primid army still exists which incidentally is a pretty massive group of guys. This gets down to the single most broken power I think in all of fiction that G&W alone possesses. G&W can violate the law of conservation of matter and simply create additional matter from himself without limit. He uses this when fighting in Smash too; where else could you begin to explain his various tools he spawns (turtles, packages, signs for Judgment Hammer, the crew for Fire, etc.) come from? For anyone who isn't versed in physics, it might not be as obvious why this is insane, but remember that G&W has mass and that the force of gravity is proportional to how much mass is present. Since G&W can just spawn infinite amounts of mass, he could at a whim simply spawn enough material to create a universe ending black hole thanks to the extreme gravity. None of these other characters can begin to match this.

I'd also like you to consider that G&W is truly 2d. He has absolutely no thickness at all, and yet he still is able to freely move about a 3d world. This has a lot of implications. A truly 2d object would be infinitely sharp. In combat the obvious advantage is that he could cut any material by applying almost no force; he just has to make contact to slice through anything. However, a secondary implication is that he should by logic slice through the ground and instantly sink to the center of the Earth, but clearly he does not. This suggests that G&W can arbitrarily float which I suppose explains why when he's using Fire there seems to be no conservation of momentum pushing the Fire crew downward when G&W is thrown upward (G&W can just move upward freely). Likewise G&W's plunging dair must use these properties; other characters with plunging dairs presumably make themselves more aerodynamic, but since G&W is perfectly flat, he's also always optimally aerodynamic so his ability to alter his fall speed can only be explained as a special ability to negate yet another fundamental law of physics at a whim. Broken stuff.

Speaking of him being 2d, let's look at some other implications. As an infinitely thin object who is also absolutely pitch black. no light at all would refract off him; he would be invisible to all of the other fighters. You might consider that those with psychic powers could detect him, but how would that work? My understand of what psychic powers are supposed to be is some sort of special brain powers in which you use some sort of a wave from your brain to interface with an opponent's brain, but since brains are 3d objects, clearly G&W's mind works via completely different and not understood mechanisms so it seems more plausible than not that he would be simply immune to all of the psychics. Even if he has some strange 2d analogue to a brain, how could a normal psychic possibly be equipped to interface with it? In terms of other interactions, even if someone were directly orthogonal to him, you have to consider his thinness from another angle. Things like sound waves or the wave properties of any particle would have a wavelength infinitely larger than his absolute zero thickness. It's unclear if there's any physical mechanism initiated by a 3d object or person that could possibly even detect his presence. Exerting a force on him might also be a tricky process, but since we do see he's highly rigid, perhaps that would work a little better so long as you approached from the flat side... not that you'd ever know he was there before he destroyed you at his leisure.

Lastly, as though he weren't already totally outclassing everyone else, consider his movement. Most other characters move by translating their location from one position to another in a smooth way, but we see very clearly that G&W simply instantaneously teleports in a sort of stuttered "frame by frame" animation. If you consider what this means on an instantaneous basis, it means that G&W can impart infinite velocity upon himself for brief periods of time. Since he possesses mass, infinite velocity means infinite momentum. Infinite momentum means infinite force. G&W can impart literally any amount of force he wants at any time; it's the only possible conclusion one can draw from his method of movement. Of course his sharp side would instantly simply slice any material even with very low force, but his flat side could likewise just break any material freely by exploiting this property. If you consider quantum mechanics, this gets even more extreme. Remember the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The more precisely an object's speed is known, the less precisely its position is known. By imparting infinite speed upon himself, it would seem that the uncertainty of his speed goes to zero which would mean the uncertainty of his position goes to infinity which means his individual particles would simultaneously affect the entire universe at once. Unlike other things here, this isn't clear and seems like something that doesn't happen; G&W already freely breaks several fundamental laws of physics so it's possible he is able to function completely outside of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, but that is also an insane property as it would suggest that in interactions between his particles and the particles of the rest of the universe his simply impose their properties freely and completely override the properties of everything else changing the basic mechanics of the entire universe to suit his existence. The second is a plausible interpretation; presumably this is why Flat Zone flattens anyone who visits? Yeah, don't try to tell me someone like Kirby is on this level; G&W can't even merely just destroy the universe but also rewrite its laws to his own convenience...

Now you could say "clearly G&W is just a fun character and they didn't consider the massive basic physics problems his existence suggests", and I'd say, sure that's true. However, the premise of the question of who is the most and least powerful I believe presupposes that every character must somehow exist, and assuming G&W exists as he's depicted in Smash can only allow for him to be effectively all powerful in a way beyond even what fiction usually suggests is a god. Therefore, G&W himself ends the question either way. You can deny considering seriously the implications of what he is and deny the question has value or you can consider it and place him at #1 in such a commanding fashion that the ranking of every other character seems uninteresting. Maybe almost everyone loses when we think this way, but at least :ultgnw: reigns as champion.
That's it, there is no rebuttal to this. G&W can't lose to anything. He is absolutely overpowered.
 

Vermilion

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
52
#23
This is always a silly topic in part because the one obviously correct greatest character is consistently neglected. The single most powerful character to the point that "everyone else together is a joke" is obviously :ultgnw:.

Mr. Game & Watch doesn't really have much we can discern from the actual G&W series, but what we see in Brawl's SSE is pretty convincing. For those who didn't follow that plot, what happened was that Tabuu extracted the LCD fluid from G&W to create the Primid army. At some point late in the plot, you recruit G&W himself by rescuing him and he's absolutely 100% of what he ever was... but the Primid army still exists which incidentally is a pretty massive group of guys. This gets down to the single most broken power I think in all of fiction that G&W alone possesses. G&W can violate the law of conservation of matter and simply create additional matter from himself without limit. He uses this when fighting in Smash too; where else could you begin to explain his various tools he spawns (turtles, packages, signs for Judgment Hammer, the crew for Fire, etc.) come from? For anyone who isn't versed in physics, it might not be as obvious why this is insane, but remember that G&W has mass and that the force of gravity is proportional to how much mass is present. Since G&W can just spawn infinite amounts of mass, he could at a whim simply spawn enough material to create a universe ending black hole thanks to the extreme gravity. None of these other characters can begin to match this.

I'd also like you to consider that G&W is truly 2d. He has absolutely no thickness at all, and yet he still is able to freely move about a 3d world. This has a lot of implications. A truly 2d object would be infinitely sharp. In combat the obvious advantage is that he could cut any material by applying almost no force; he just has to make contact to slice through anything. However, a secondary implication is that he should by logic slice through the ground and instantly sink to the center of the Earth, but clearly he does not. This suggests that G&W can arbitrarily float which I suppose explains why when he's using Fire there seems to be no conservation of momentum pushing the Fire crew downward when G&W is thrown upward (G&W can just move upward freely). Likewise G&W's plunging dair must use these properties; other characters with plunging dairs presumably make themselves more aerodynamic, but since G&W is perfectly flat, he's also always optimally aerodynamic so his ability to alter his fall speed can only be explained as a special ability to negate yet another fundamental law of physics at a whim. Broken stuff.

Speaking of him being 2d, let's look at some other implications. As an infinitely thin object who is also absolutely pitch black. no light at all would refract off him; he would be invisible to all of the other fighters. You might consider that those with psychic powers could detect him, but how would that work? My understand of what psychic powers are supposed to be is some sort of special brain powers in which you use some sort of a wave from your brain to interface with an opponent's brain, but since brains are 3d objects, clearly G&W's mind works via completely different and not understood mechanisms so it seems more plausible than not that he would be simply immune to all of the psychics. Even if he has some strange 2d analogue to a brain, how could a normal psychic possibly be equipped to interface with it? In terms of other interactions, even if someone were directly orthogonal to him, you have to consider his thinness from another angle. Things like sound waves or the wave properties of any particle would have a wavelength infinitely larger than his absolute zero thickness. It's unclear if there's any physical mechanism initiated by a 3d object or person that could possibly even detect his presence. Exerting a force on him might also be a tricky process, but since we do see he's highly rigid, perhaps that would work a little better so long as you approached from the flat side... not that you'd ever know he was there before he destroyed you at his leisure.

Lastly, as though he weren't already totally outclassing everyone else, consider his movement. Most other characters move by translating their location from one position to another in a smooth way, but we see very clearly that G&W simply instantaneously teleports in a sort of stuttered "frame by frame" animation. If you consider what this means on an instantaneous basis, it means that G&W can impart infinite velocity upon himself for brief periods of time. Since he possesses mass, infinite velocity means infinite momentum. Infinite momentum means infinite force. G&W can impart literally any amount of force he wants at any time; it's the only possible conclusion one can draw from his method of movement. Of course his sharp side would instantly simply slice any material even with very low force, but his flat side could likewise just break any material freely by exploiting this property. If you consider quantum mechanics, this gets even more extreme. Remember the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The more precisely an object's speed is known, the less precisely its position is known. By imparting infinite speed upon himself, it would seem that the uncertainty of his speed goes to zero which would mean the uncertainty of his position goes to infinity which means his individual particles would simultaneously affect the entire universe at once. Unlike other things here, this isn't clear and seems like something that doesn't happen; G&W already freely breaks several fundamental laws of physics so it's possible he is able to function completely outside of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, but that is also an insane property as it would suggest that in interactions between his particles and the particles of the rest of the universe his simply impose their properties freely and completely override the properties of everything else changing the basic mechanics of the entire universe to suit his existence. The second is a plausible interpretation; presumably this is why Flat Zone flattens anyone who visits? Yeah, don't try to tell me someone like Kirby is on this level; G&W can't even merely just destroy the universe but also rewrite its laws to his own convenience...

Now you could say "clearly G&W is just a fun character and they didn't consider the massive basic physics problems his existence suggests", and I'd say, sure that's true. However, the premise of the question of who is the most and least powerful I believe presupposes that every character must somehow exist, and assuming G&W exists as he's depicted in Smash can only allow for him to be effectively all powerful in a way beyond even what fiction usually suggests is a god. Therefore, G&W himself ends the question either way. You can deny considering seriously the implications of what he is and deny the question has value or you can consider it and place him at #1 in such a commanding fashion that the ranking of every other character seems uninteresting. Maybe almost everyone loses when we think this way, but at least :ultgnw: reigns as champion.
This was actually a very good explanation. Mr. Game & Watch is one of my favorite characters, so I find this particularly interesting.
 

aarchak

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
501
Location
The blast zone
#26
My only nitpick is I’d put Villager higher due to time traveling at will (for meta reasons) and literally fitting huge furniture into their pocket
I originally put him there because he doesn't fight, therefore he probably won't have the stats to reach the higher tiers, but since he can apparently do that and also cut down trees (which I forgot about), I'll be moving him further up in future versions.
 

Q-Long

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,055
Location
Western Massachusetts
#31
Assist trophies

S
Shadow
Alucard
Isaac
Saki
Zero
Devil
Ghiriham
Rodin
Nightmare
Phosphora
Skull Kid

A
Gray Fox
Andross
Mother Brain
Shovel Knight
Moon
Knuckles
Rathalos

B
Lyndis
Magnus
Starman
Takamaru
Sukapon
Goroh
Stafy
Sable
Riki
Knuckle Joe
Jeff
Jill
Dillion
Bomberman
Krystal
Elecman
Metroid
Midna
Squid Sisters
Ashley
Kat n Ana
Chain Chomp
Chef Kowasaki
Sheriff
Pac Ghost

C
Tingle
Waluigi
Lakitu
Orange Star Infantry
Klap Trap
Hammer Bro
Mr. Resetti
Pong
Helirin
Isabelle
Barbara
Kappm
Ray MK 2 (would be higher if it was human scale)
Excite Bike
Brain Age Doc
Mr Wright
Nikki
Snarget
Arcade Bunny
Nintendog

All of the Fire Emblem characters have defeated goddesses, elder dragons, or demons so I think they should all be hire. At least in the case of Roy, Ike, and Marth, it is unclear who dealt the final blow for the awakening cast.


Also the Belmont bloodline gets stronger with every generation, so Richter is stronger than his ancestor.

That being said I like your list!
 
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Prince Alucard

Prince of vampires(and just being fabolous)
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#32
Well here's the thing, video game characters are VERY difficult to scale due to the many different forms of gameplay. A character in a platformer is going to seem much weaker than a flashy beat em up for instance. Even if those characters have similar niches and feats. For instance, in Pokémon, you may figure that pokemon aren't that strong if they're setting off earthquakes and yet somehow not obliterating the area they're in. But then in something like Pokken Tournament you see Shadow Mewtwo pull a Dragon Ball Z finisher....

So, instead of comparing them directly for now, here's my thoughts on some characters relative to their own canon.

:ultfalcon:: Very overrated TBH, and he's my favorite smash character. Not only is the infamous Falcon Punch from the anime(which is non-canon to the main series games, but to be fair the anime does have GBA games), but it wasn't his falcon punch that caused that HUGE explosion in the galaxy. It was the generator. Main canon falcon is difficult to judge, because even if he was that powerful, he'd rather race. LMAO.

Yes, even when it comes to powerful beings. So I'll give him this, if anyone challenges him to a race, they're screwed.

:ultmewtwo:: Easily the strongest of the playable pokemon in smash. The only way the others even come close is through mega evolution, but even then Mewtwo has very powerful megas of his own. And not to mention that 670+ BST legendaries usually have pretty ridiculous feats at their best.

:ultrichter::ultsimon:: No idea why Simon's being put over him. Richter is definitely the stronger of the two in his prime. The only Belmont that probably surpasses him is Julius. Who in the games is past his prime and holding back. Yet is still portrayed as stupidly powerful.

The Belmonts are pretty tricky to rate in strength though, since you could argue that they're specialized, but I mean, we are talking about power from God. Though that does present a pretty powerful weakness, since if you're holy yourself they can't really do **** to you. I say this because of the holy armor Alucard can use to easily beat Richter. Still, the Belmonts do display superhuman strength and capabilities. So much so it freaks people out, hence why they're banished.

Dracula himself though is definitely very powerful, definitely way stronger than the Belmonts in raw power. He is basically Satan in Castlevania. Sure, he's mostly known for a simple teleport and fireballs in gameplay. But Kirby goes for the older Kirby bosses who are pretty powerful in the Kirby universe. Such as Nightmare and Zero.

Regardless I think they're both being underrated here. Simon's even trickier to figure out than Richter. Since gameplay wise he's the most simplistic, but he should logically be stronger than Trevor at least. Since it seems like each Belmont that attempts to stop Dracula in some shape or form seems to be stronger than the last.

Like Simon's still very powerful, but Richter is suppose to be even more so. At least in his prime. Only way I could see Simon being stronger. But then again, it's also younger Simon, since you could argue it's not him from Simon's quest based on his appearance.

:ultrobin:ultchrom::ultroy::ultike:: Similar to the Belmonts, though I would say that I think the Belmonts are stronger. They also have specialized weapons to take down a deity much more powerful than they are. Still way stronger than normal soldiers and the like though.

:ultkirby:: I wouldn't say he's omnipotent, it's more like he has infinite potential. He's like a much more reliable variation of ditto(Well, Mew's the much better transformer) from pokemon. Great if he gets the power up, but if not, he's not that strong. Dedede I'd actually say has gone up in power ever since he became playable, since you can technically kick whatever final boss's *** with just him, but again, that's more so a gameplay thing. Before that he wasn't that impressive.

:ultsamus:: Another character that's kind of tricky to determine based on gameplay. Obviously similar to the Belmonts in some ways considering the similar-ish style of gameplay. Still, you're talking very powerful technology vs magic. Which is always very tricky.


People really overestimate Mewtwo. Remember, in canon, (the games) it's a wild animal like most other Pokemon.

And as for some of the characters that defeated gods:

Ness- Was ineffective against Giygas until someone else used the prayed

Bayonetta- If Jubileus had both eyes, Bayonetta couldn't have won (assume that Bayo wasn't one of the eyes)

Shulk- Zanza
was pretty much screwed because he can't survive without his other half

And even then, what playable character hasn't killed a god, a powerful demon, or some other cosmic horror?
I agree with most of your points. Except regarding Mewtwo. Since he's a clone that's meant to be the ultimate pokemon and clearly has many capabilities that no other psychic has. Even then normal pokemon are pretty powerful too at their best.

It's hard to judge them, considering that not only are RPGs already pretty hard to scale, but pokemon battles themselves are suppose to be nonlethal. But there's no doubt that Mewtwo among other pokemon is stupidly powerful. Especially in gen 1, he's practically unstoppable without wearing him down.
 
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Joined
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#33
Personally I would put Rosalina in SS Tier. Didn't she recreate the universe at the end of Super Mario Galaxy?

Also Wario should be in the B Tier considering his moon feat against Shake King.

Yoshi should be lower too. If your taking his star constellation from Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island into account. That's an outlier. I say C+ Tier is more of his level.

King Dedede I'd rank to A Tier at least being he's able to hold his own against Kirby on a daily basis for the same reasons Meta Knight can.
 
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Uffe

Smash Hero
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#34
S+++ :ultlink: Defeated Dark Beast Ganon - the literal being of infinite Hatred and Malice Incarnate 2 times!
That's because of the Master Sword and Zelda giving him the Light Bow & Arrows. How would he fair against other enemies who aren't vulnerable to these weapons?
:ultvillager: Villager can sort of canonically time travel and mess with their reality as they see fit...? I wouldn't normally count it, but characters mention it, warn of it, and suffer consequences for it, so...

Ooh, after a catch, they can fearlessly show off things like scorpions and sharks - AND, I don't know if it's the heaviest in the game - but Villager lifts up Whale Sharks with one hand and the game canonically lists them at around 275 inches aka like 23 ft, and that's heavy, that's one-handed, and Villager is strong.

Also they can like...carry anything in their pocket. Beds, statues, cars, puts em in their pocket and leisurely walks away. That's strong. That's canon.

Most likely the script writers telling you not to change the date or time as you see fit, because that's now how the game was intended to be played. Even then, Villager himself doesn't change the date or time, it's you, the player, whether it be in-game or outside of the game. Just like Resetti telling you not to reset the game or you'll get an ear full. But we do it anyway. Strength alone won't get a character far. Pocket is nothing more than a game mechanic, much like Link from the first Zelda game holding several items we can't see as he travels.

That's Super Smash Bros. Brawl, not something Mr. Game & Watch is actually showing within his own series.
:ultkirby: is actually canonically stated to possess infinite power. He's on top.
What does that mean?

Snake can defeat 4th wall breaks :b
Ike killed a Goddess
Kirby can crack a planet
Captain Falcon delivers a moon sized falcon punch in the anime
I'm not sure how breaking the 4th wall contributes to being able to top opponents. Gods and goddesses are thrown around loosely these days, it's actually not impossible to kill either one. Kirby has cracked what planet? Popstar? If it's in a mini game, I'm not sure how that really tells us anything. Also, he's 8 inches in size, so how big are the planets he's cracking? And that wasn't Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch blowing things up. There was a bomb, and Falcon told Ryu Suzuki that he was the new Captain Falcon, and then eventually the bomb exploded, supposedly killing Falcon and Black Shadow in the process. Spoilers. Neither one died.
 
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Mogisthelioma

Smash Champion
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#35
S+++ :ultlink: Defeated Dark Beast Ganon - the literal being of infinite Hatred and Malice Incarnate 2 times!
I accidentally walked into the sanctum in BotW thinking it was one of the Lynel rooms. I though I had barely anything necessary to beat Ganon but he was actually pretty easy. In fact, Dark Beast Ganon was easier.
But in your case then, :ultkirby:S++++
 

Frizz

Smash Lord
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Mar 20, 2015
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Massachusetts
#36
Robin should be moved down a tier. He doesn't have any sort of superhuman power without his magic. He's merely a vessel for Grima, the god of destruction, so he has no control over it. By Awakening's endgame, Grima is either sealed away for future generations or destroyed by Robin himself. Either way, Grima no longer has any control over Robin either, so he's back down to B- tier.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
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Dec 8, 2004
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23,418
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SW-1597-979602774
#38
Diddy should definitely be higher up. He's always portraited as equal to DK, and even beat King K.Rool twice in DKC2. How you can rank him below Wii Fit Trainer and even DAISY is beyond me. He beats things 4 times his size all the time.

Lucario and Greninja should be at the same level as Charizard. Competitively, they are even objectively better.

Why is Ike also lower than Roy and Chrom? Doesn't make sense. He kills a literal Goddess.

Sheik also is rather strong due to her being able to seal up Ganon. This is Ocarina of Time Zelda after all, in the downfall timeline, she's responsible for sealing Ganondorf away with help of the other Sages.

Wario is HUMAN AVERAGE strenght? Lol....
 

Mamp

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
131
#40
people in these threads always forget how small the kirby characters are. kirby himself is apparently actually omnipotent or something, but dedede is a 1 foot tall penguin man, and meta knight is even smaller. hard to imagine they should be ranked very highly on these kinds of tier lists when a large portion of the cast can just step on them
 
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