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If Robin had a frame 5 jumpsquat

Krysco

Aeon Hero
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
2,005
Location
Ontario, Canada
NNID
Krysco
3DS FC
2122-7731-1180
So for those who are unaware, every time you press jump while on the ground, your character enters a state known as jumpsquat which is basically an animation showing your character leaping off the ground. There's a few different speeds of jumpsquats from a few frame 4 ones all the way up to some frame 7 ones and Bowser even has a frame 8 one. Robin is one of a few characters stuck with a frame 7 one and is the only one in this group that isn't a heavyweight (the others being :4link::4myfriends::4ganondorf::4charizard::4miisword:). This greatly hinders Robin both offensively and defensively since Robin has to wait 7 frames every time he wants to enter the air.

I don't have the ability or knowledge to show or tell how effective Robin would become offensively with a better jumpsquat, mods could show this off. The most I can show in this regard is an example with something as simple as 2 short hop fairs back to back. Currently, Robin has to wait 19 frames, just under a third of a second, to get out a fair from a standing, walking or running position. 7 frames of jumpsquat and then 12 till the first hitbox of fair comes out. If you want to do another short hop fair as soon as you can after the first one, you're waiting another 38 frames between the last hitbox of the first fair and the first hitbox of the second fair, assuming you don't fast fall.

Now what if Robin had a frame 5 jumpsquat? It's by far the most common type among the cast with 29 characters having one. With the fair example, you'd now be waiting 17 frames for the first fair to come out and 36 frames for the second, again, assuming no fast fall.

That's the best I can show for how much better it would improve Robin offensively but defensively is something I can show much better. One of Robin's largest weaknesses is his out of shield game. His fastest option is his frame 7 grab which has poor endlag and not the greatest range. After that, you're waiting 10 frames for an item throw if you have a discarded tome or Levin sword in hand, 11 frames to pull out a jab, 12 for an usmash, 13 for an utilt, 14 for a dtilt and 16 for an ftilt, nair or bair. If Robin had a frame 5 jumpsquat, that nair and bair would become as fast as dtilt OoS. Fair would go from 19 frames OoS to 17 and Uair would go from 17 to 15.

Given that Robin's Usmash has hardly any horizontal range, his aerials are his fastest means of giving a rather hard punish to an opponent that hits his shield. What moves would Robin suddenly be able to punish with Levin aerials if he had a frame 5 jumpsquat? Let's take a look:

I will be showing the moves safety on shield (source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GaDXAPQJlz0AiIYSSOWFwy_dg04Rrq4a-YF9-VDOhZI/htmlview#)
If a move has a -17 or -18 next to it then it was already punishable by nair, bair and uair but now becomes punishable by fair.
If a move has a -15 or -16 next to it then it was already punishable by nair and bair but becomes punishable by uair
And finally, if a move has a -14 or -15 next to it then it becomes punishable by nair and bair.
:4bayonetta:
Heel Slide Kick held -18
Jab 1 -14
Ftilt 1 -15
Dtilt -14
Utilt -15
:4bowser:
Dtilt -25/-17 first value is for the first hit, second is for the second hit
Uair -18
Nair -15
Fair -15
:4bowserjr:
Cannon -25/-18 first value is no charge, second is full charge
Bair -14
:4falcon:
Dtilt -16
Usmash -24/-21/-15/-14 values are first kicks sourspot, first kicks sweetspot, second kicks sourspot and second kicks sweetspot
Fair -17/-27 first value is the sweetspot, second is the sourspot
Ftilt -15
Utilt -14
:4charizard:
Jab 2 -16
Utilt -18
Jab 1 -15
Dtilt -14
:4cloud:
Ftilt -18
Dsmash -37/-18 first value is first hit, second is second hit
Dair -16/-20 first value is for the spike hitbox, second is for the weak hit
Limit Cross Slash (!) -15
:4corrin:
Ftilt -18
:4darkpit::4pit:
Jab 1 -18
Fair -18/-16 site never specified values. Assuming first is the initial multihits and the second is the stronger finishing hit
Dair -17
:4dedede:
Gordo Toss -27/-16/-24 first value is just the hammer hitting, second is just the Gordo hitting, third is both hitting at the same time
:4diddy:
Dash attack -18
Uair -16
:4dk:
Jab 1 -15
:4drmario:
Jab 1 -17
Dtilt -17
Utilt -18
Fair -17/-20 first value is the strong hit on frame 17, second is the weak hit
Dair -18
Super Sheet -17
:4duckhunt:
Jab 1 -18
Ftilt -17
Bair -15/-17/-16 first value is the sour spot, second is the sweetspot, third is the late hit
Uair -15/-13 first value is the first and second hit, second value is the third hit
Trick Shot -15
:4falco:
Jab 1 -17
Dair -14/-17 first value is the spike hitbox, second is the weak hit
Ftilt -14
Fair -14
:4fox:
Jab 2 -16
Utilt (!) -17
Uair -18/-14 site doesn't specify but assuming the first value is the first, weaker hit and the second is the second, stronger hit
Dtilt -14
Dair -14
:4ganondorf:
Dtilt -16
Dash attack -17
Dsmash -43/-18 first value is the first kick, second is the second kick
Jab -15/-14 second value is for the tipper, first is for the rest of it
:4greninja:
Jab 2 -16
Ftilt -16
Dash attack -17
Water Shuriken -17
Jab 1 -15
Dtilt -15
:4myfriends:
Jab 1 -16
Dtilt -15
:4jigglypuff:
no additional moves become punishable by aerials
:4kirby:
Ftilt -16
Dash attack -14
:4link:
Jab 1 -17
Bow full charge -16
:4littlemac:
Jab 1 -17
Jab 2 -17
Utilt -18
Fsmash neutral and up -16
Dsmash -23/-16 first value is for first hit, second is for second hit
Fair -18
Uair -18
:4lucario:
Fsmash (135% - 155%) -18
Fsmash (156% - 177%) -17
Fsmash (178%+) -16
Uair (0 - 32%) -16
Uair (33 - 69%) -15
Uair (70 - 101%) -14
Aura Sphere full charge (157 - 176%) -18
Aura Sphere full charge (177 - 186%) -17
Aura Sphere full charge (187%+) -16
Force Palm sweetspot (130 - 158%) -17
Force Palm sweetspot (159 - 172%) -16
Force Palm sweetspot (173%+) -14
Fair (0 - 69%) -14
:4lucas:
Dash attack -16
Dair -17
Jab 1 -14
PK Freeze -14/-5 first value is uncharged, second is full charge
:4lucina:
Jab 1 -17
Ftilt -17
Dair -15
:4luigi:
Fair -16
Fireball -16
Dtilt -15
Dair -13/-14 first value is early hit, second is late hit
:4mario:
Jab 1 -16
Jab 2 -17
Dtilt -18
Fair -16/-18 second value is for the early weak hit, first is presumably for the spike hit. Site does not specify
Cape -17
:4marth:
All values are non tipper first, then tipper
Jab 1 -17/-16
Ftilt -18/-17
Dair -16/-14
:4metaknight:
Ftilt 1 -16
Bair -16/-14 first value is first 2 hits, second is third hit
Dair -17
Uair -16
Fair -14/-13 first value is first 2 hits, second is third hit
:4megaman:
Bair -17/-16 site has it listed as First/second/third hit so the second hit is either -17 or -16
Metal Blade -14
:4mewtwo:
Ftilt -18/-19 second value is for the tipper
Utilt -17
Shadow Ball -18/-2 first value is uncharged, second is full charge
Jab 1 -14
:4miibrawl:
Default height and width
Ftilt -15
Dtilt -14
:4miigun:
Default height and width
Jab 1 -17
Jab 2 -18
Dair -18/-21 first value is the spike hit, second is the weak hit
Uair -20/-18 first value is multihits, second is final hit
Charge Blast -29/-14 first value is uncharged, second is full charge
Stealth Burst -16/-14 first value is uncharged, second is full charge
Super Missile -14
:4miisword:
Default height and width
Utilt -18
Dair -18
Ftilt -15
:4gaw:
Jab ender -18
Dsmash -17/-16 first value is close hit, second is far hit
Dair -18
Fsmash -15/-13 first value is close hit, second is far hit
Judge 9 -14
:4ness:
Utilt -18/-20 first value is strong hit, second is weak hit
Fair -18/-16 first value is multihit, second is final hit
:4olimar:
Dtilt -18
Dsmash early blue Pikmin -14
Dsmash early white Pikmin -16
Fsmash early white Pikmin -14
Dsmash late white Pikmin -14
:4pacman:
Dtilt -16
Bair -15/-16 Site does not specify, assuming first value is early hit, second is late hit
Dair -18/-15 first value is first 3 hits, second is fourth hit
Bonus Fruit Melon -18
Bonus Fruit Galaga -18
Bonus Fruit Key -16
Jab 2 -14
:4palutena:
Nair -18/-16 Site does not specify, assuming first value is all but the final hit while second is said final hit
Auto-Reticle -17
Jab 1 -14
:4peach:
Fsmash -21/-20/-18 first value is tennis racket, second is golf club, third is frying pan
Dash attack -15
:4pikachu:
Jab -17
Ftilt -16/-17 first value is angled high, second is no angle or angled low
Fsmash -23/-18/-21 first value is early hit, second is late strong hit on f18, third is late weak hit on f21
Nair -18/-19 first value is early hit, second is late hit
Utilt -15
:4rob:
Uair -20/-18 Site does not specify, assuming first value is multihits, second is final hit
Robo Beam uncharged -18
Gyro dash thrown -17
Jab 1 -14
Jab 2 -14
Bair -14
:4robinm:
Ftilt -17
Levin Dair -18
Sword dash thrown -17
Thoron (not held) -17
Thunder -15
Elthunder -15
Tome dash thrown -15
:rosalina:
Values are for Rosalina unless otherwise stated
Jab 2 -16
Jab 3 Luma -16
Dsmash -29/-17 first value is first hit, second is second hit
Fair -18/-17 Site does not specify, assuming first value is multi hits, second is final hit
Luma Shot -24/-16 first value is uncharged, second is full charge
Star Bits -17
Dtilt Luma -14
Dair -14/-15 first value is spike hitbox, second is for late hit
:4feroy:
Ftilt -17/-14 first value is tipper, second is base
Flare Blade -16 Site does not specify individual values for charges
:4ryu:
Strong Jab -16
Fsmash -18/-17 first value is for sourspot, second is for sweetspot
Strong Ftilt -14
Strong Dtilt -15
:4samus:
Jab 2 -17
Ftilt -18/-19 first value is sweetspot, second is sourspot
Dash attack -18/-16/-14 first value is early hit, second is strong hit on f10, third is late hit on f14
Utilt -15
:4sheik:
Fsmash -18
Uair -19/-17 Site does not specify, assuming first value is all but last hit while second value is said last hit
Ftilt (!) -15
:4shulk:
Vanilla/Buster Jab 1 -16
Speed/Shield/Smash Jab 1 -17
Vanilla Dtilt -14/-15 first value is for the blade hitbox, second is for beam hitbox
Speed Dtilt -15/-16
Shield Dtilt -16
Smash Dtilt -17
Vanilla Dair -18/-15 first value is first hit, second is second hit
Speed Dair -19/-16
Shield Dair -19/-17
Buster Dair -17/-12
Smash Dair -20/-18
Speed Bair -12/-14 first value is blade hitbox, second is beam hitbox
Smash Bair -14/-15
:4sonic:
Jab 2 -16
Dtilt -16
Utilt -16
Uair -18/-16 first value is first hit, second is second hit
:4tlink:
Ftilt -17
Dtilt -18
Hero's Bow -14/-9 first value is uncharged, second is full charge
:4villager:
Jab 2 -17
Dtilt -16
Jab 1 -15
Usmash -15
Fair -12/-14 first value is early hit, second is late hit
Bair -11/-14
:4wario:
Ftilt -18
Utilt -16
Dair -17/-15 Site does not specify, assuming first value is all but final hit while second is said final hit
:4wiifit:
Jab 1 -18/-17 first value is for front hit, second is for back hit
Sun Salutation full charge -17
Bair -12/-15 first value is early hit, second is late hit
Dair -11/-14 first value is early hit, second is late hit
:4yoshi:
Utilt -17
Bair -16/-15 first value is first 2 hits, third value is third hit
:4zelda:
Utilt -16
Fsmash -16
Dsmash -25/-17 first value is first hit, second value is second hit
Nair -16/-15 first value is multihits, second is final hit
Dtilt -14
Dair -7/-14 first value is sweetspot, second value is sourspot
Din's Fire uncharged -12/-15 first value is sweetspot, second is sourspot
:4zss:
Jab 1 -17
Ftilt -16
Plasma Whip -17
Dsmash -14
If a move was not listed then it is either always punishable by aerials, never is or wasn't given a block value on the site. For aerials, I'm assuming the values are for if the character lands immediately after the hitbox connects or autocancelled. While making this post, I wrote down every move that isn't safe on Robin's shield from Levin aerials both with his current jumpsquat and as shown above, ones that wouldn't be safe if he had a frame 5 jumpsquat so if anyone is curious about a move being punishable by Levin aerials or not, I can post the entire list in another spoiler. If there's any questions, I'll try to answer them as best I can and if I've messed up at all then by all means, let me know so I can correct it.
 
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