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If customs return, here are some changes to balance them out.

What are the chances for Smash Switch to include custom moves?

  • It will return.

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • It may return.

    Votes: 7 36.8%
  • Not so sure.

    Votes: 6 31.6%
  • Don't have a feeling that it will come back.

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • It won't come back.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,195
Custom moves are pretty tedious to unlock, especially if you are playing the Wii U version. However, if Smash Switch makes customs return, they should balance them out. If you don't know about my best/worst custom move threads, you would know how imbalanced this game could be with customs turned off. This thread 1) is not talking about easier ways to unlock them and 2) is assuming that all SSB4 characters will return. It will be stylized kinda like Smashwiki's notes on character changes (like the plus/minus/notes bullets).

This is also my personal thoughts on how each move should be buffed / nerfed / revamped, so it is very much open to discussion.

I decided to get creative with the DLC characters.:)

First set of characters are coming soon.

Here is a key:
:GCA: Buff.
:GCB: Nerf.
:GCCN: Note.
:GCDpad: Bug fix.

:4mario:
:GCA:Fire Orb has slightly less ending lag. (applies to :4drmario:, whose version is named: Mega Capsule)
:GCA:Super Jump covers slightly more distance. (applies to :4drmario:)
:GCA:Scalding F.L.U.D.D. covers marginally more distance.
:4luigi:
:GCA:Bouncing Fireball now has Mario's Fireballs ending lag, which is significantly less. It is still slower than Luigi's default Fireballs.
:GCB:Floating Missile deals slightly less damage.
:GCA:Fiery Jump Punch has slightly less landing lag.
:GCB:Mach Cyclone has launches opponents in a slightly upward angle, which slightly harms it's KO potential. (applies to :4drmario:, whose version is named: Soaring Tornado)
-------------:GCA:However it is easier to button mash to reach the maximum height. (applies to :4drmario:)
:GCA:Clothesline Cyclone's initial hits are stronger semi-spikes, in addition of having less ending lag and slightly less start-up. Slightly easier to button mash. (applies to :4drmario:)
:4peach:
:GCCN:Toad's appearance now accurately matches the counter frames to Sleepy Toad.
:GCA:Grumpy Toad deals more knockback and damage (8% -> 11%), and covers more range. It now has the other variations ability to drift in midair.
:GCA:Flower Bomber's hip bash deals noticeably more damage (4% -> 14%), now making the move's damage output accurately outweigh the default's.
:GCA:Parasol High Jump transitions faster, as well as having the default's startup and landing lag.
:GCA:Heavy Veggie travels slightly farther, which means that it can function as a "proper projectile". It takes marginally less time to pluck.
:4bowser:
:GCB:Fire Shot is no longer transcendent.
-------------:GCA:However, it now beats out weaker projectiles like an uncharged Charge Shot and Sheik's Needles.
:GCA:Fire Roar's sourspots now flinch the opponent, as well as the move itself dealing slightly more damage.
:GCB:Dash Slash and Dash Slam no longer has the default's autocancel windows.
-------------:GCCN:However, the landing lag for both is minimal.
:GCA:Flying Fortress's single hit has more knockback, improving it's safety. (FYI: the move has a hitbox despite the description saying otherwise)
-------------:GCA::GCDpad:The move now properly rises in the air while Bowser sustains knockback.
:GCA:Sliding Fortress has the default's startup, giving it the default's OOS shield capabilities.
:GCA:Turbulent Bomb has the default's startup on the ground, as well as larger windboxes upon landing.
:4yoshi:
:GCB:Lick has marginally less KO power.
:GCA:High Jump has slightly more horizontal momentum, though not as much as the default.
:GCA:Timed Egg Throw's egg now has a travelling hitbox (deals 2% and merely flinches), although it still passes through opponents and has a timed pattern. The explosion has a larger hitbox, as well as more damage (9% -> 12%).
:GCA:Star Bomb's star appear sooner, improving the move's safety.
:GCA:Crushing Bomb has slightly less startup, as well as the grounded variation being able to break shields in one hit like the default.
:rosalina:
:GCB:Luma's reappearing hitbox in Luma Warp is removed.
-------------:GCA:The move now transitions even faster.
:GCA:Power Luma Shot has more knockback, now KO'ing in respectable percents if fully charged.
:GCB:Shooting Star Bit travels slightly less distance.
:GCA:Launch Star Plus has slightly less ending lag (not landing lag, as there is a brief delay before Rosa can move freely after the ascent).
:GCA:Launch Star Attack covers slightly more distance, with it's hitboxes adjusted so that it will still connect reliably.
:GCA:Catch & Release has a much larger/stronger pullbox and more knockback, making it a very practical move for specifically edgeguarding.
:4bowserjr:
:GCA:Piercing Cannon has slightly less startup, with significantly less endlag (which is now faster than the default's, although not as fast as Air Cannon), as well as slightly more shield pressure (although not as much as the default's).
:GCA:Koopa Drift now has the default's KO power.
:GCA:Grounding Dash now has less startup and the default's ending lag, the former improves it's recovery potential (although still inferior to the default's) while the latter properly gives Jr. followup potential if the move lands a bury.
:GCA:Koopa Meteor can now snag the ledge upon ascent.
:GCA:Impatient Mechakoopa grabs and explodes on the opponent midair, repurposing it to be a proper projectile. (Note: it doesn't attach to shielded opponents.)
:GCA:Big Mechakoopa cannot be grabbed and it's hitpoints have increased. This makes the move function more like a shield, improving his nuetral game.
-------------:GCB:However, Bowser Jr. cannot use it a flung projectile either.
:4wario:
:GCA:Inhaling Chomp has marginally more range.
:GCA:All of Garlic Breath's hitboxes now stuns opponents on the ground, and now launches airborne opponents (although it has weak set knockback and is a single hitbox). The move now has the default's ending lag, offering easier setups, as well as ignoring shields if the opponent is close to Wario (it has no effect on shielded opponents away from Wario, which is where he can get punished the hardest). The move now has Inhaling Chomp's range.
:GCA:Widescrew now has the default's travel distance, while still being horizontal.
:GCA:Corkscrew Leap travels slightly farther and has increased speed (although startup remains the same).
:4dk:
:GCA:Chopper Kong has slightly improved horizontal distance, as well as moving ascending slightly faster.
:GCB:Kong Cyclone has less KO power in the air and it's soft landing (where it receives minimal ending lag) has slightly increased ending lag. Both variations has slightly less frames of super armor (particularly towards the end).
:GCB:Both variations of Hand Slap deals slightly less knockback.
:4diddy:
:GCA:Exploding Popgun's explosion has covers noticeably more range up-close, and charges up slightly faster. Uncharged hits deal more damage (1% -> 4%).
:GCA:Jumbo Peanuts now cap at 21% fully charged, rather than 11%.
:GCA:Back Flip's kick deals more knockback in order to most effectively force edgeguarding situations.
:GCA:Flying Monkey Flip transitions slightly faster.
:GCB:Rocketbarrel Attack deals slightly less knockback.
:GCA:Rocketbarrel Kaboom now travels farther than the default.
--------------:GCB:However, collision with him as he travels deals less damage (6-8% -> 2-4%).
:GCA:Instead of being launched, getting hit by Battering Banana Peel now puts you in a short tumble, allowing for better followups.
--------------:GCB:To compensate, it has somewhat slightly more startup.
:4gaw:
:GCA:XXL Chef's food deals slightly more damage, with the actual pan being stronger (making it a somewhat situational, but deadly edgeguarding tool beyond merely gimping short ranged recoveries like the default).
:GCA:Extreme Judge's ones doesn't deal recoil to Game & Watch if the move whiffs. Nines now have the defaut's shield damage.
-------------:GCCN:However, ones still does recoil if it hits the opponent's shield (or a hurtbox like SV's balloon).
:GCB:Trampoline Launch deals less knockback at the apex.
:GCA:Efficient Panic has marginally more range.
:4littlemac:
:GCA::GCDpad:Guard Breaker now properly travels it's distance if used out-of-knockback.
:GCA:Tornado Uppercut travels even farther.
:GCA:Rising Smash's two hits connect to each eachother much more reliably.
:GCA:Dash Counter can now hit opponents in front of Mac, as a result of it's windbox being removed.
 
Last edited:

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,195
:4mario:
:GCA:Fire Orb has slightly less ending lag. (applies to :4drmario:, whose version is named: Mega Capsule)
:GCA:Super Jump covers slightly more distance. (applies to :4drmario:)
:GCA:Scalding F.L.U.D.D. covers marginally more distance.
:4luigi:
:GCA:Bouncing Fireball now has Mario's Fireballs ending lag, which is significantly less. It is still slower than Luigi's default Fireballs.
:GCB:Floating Missile deals slightly less damage.
:GCA:Fiery Jump Punch has slightly less landing lag.
:GCB:Mach Cyclone has launches opponents in a slightly upward angle, which slightly harms it's KO potential. (applies to :4drmario:, whose version is named: Soaring Tornado)
-------------:GCA:However it is easier to button mash to reach the maximum height. (applies to :4drmario:)
:GCA:Clothesline Cyclone's initial hits are stronger semi-spikes, in addition of having less ending lag and slightly less start-up. Slightly easier to button mash. (applies to :4drmario:)
:4peach:
:GCCN:Toad's appearance now accurately matches the counter frames to Sleepy Toad.
:GCA:Grumpy Toad deals more knockback and damage (8% -> 11%), and covers more range. It now has the other variations ability to drift in midair.
:GCA:Flower Bomber's hip bash deals noticeably more damage (4% -> 14%), now making the move's damage output accurately outweigh the default's.
:GCA:Parasol High Jump transitions faster, as well as having the default's startup and landing lag.
:GCA:Heavy Veggie travels slightly farther, which means that it can function as a "proper projectile". It takes marginally less time to pluck.
:4bowser:
:GCB:Fire Shot is no longer transcendent.
-------------:GCA:However, it now beats out weaker projectiles like an uncharged Charge Shot and Sheik's Needles.
:GCA:Fire Roar's sourspots now flinch the opponent, as well as the move itself dealing slightly more damage.
:GCB:Dash Slash and Dash Slam no longer has the default's autocancel windows.
-------------:GCCN:However, the landing lag for both is minimal.
:GCA:Flying Fortress's single hit has more knockback, improving it's safety. (FYI: the move has a hitbox despite the description saying otherwise)
-------------:GCA::GCDpad:The move now properly rises in the air while Bowser sustains knockback.
:GCA:Sliding Fortress has the default's startup, giving it the default's OOS shield capabilities.
:GCA:Turbulent Bomb has the default's startup on the ground, as well as larger windboxes upon landing.
:4yoshi:
:GCB:Lick has marginally less KO power.
:GCA:High Jump has slightly more horizontal momentum, though not as much as the default.
:GCA:Timed Egg Throw's egg now has a travelling hitbox (deals 2% and merely flinches), although it still passes through opponents and has a timed pattern. The explosion has a larger hitbox, as well as more damage (9% -> 12%).
:GCA:Star Bomb's star appear sooner, improving the move's safety.
:GCA:Crushing Bomb has slightly less startup, as well as the grounded variation being able to break shields in one hit like the default.
:rosalina:
:GCB:Luma's reappearing hitbox in Luma Warp is removed.
-------------:GCA:The move now transitions even faster.
:GCA:Power Luma Shot has more knockback, now KO'ing in respectable percents if fully charged.
:GCB:Shooting Star Bit travels slightly less distance.
:GCA:Launch Star Plus has slightly less ending lag (not landing lag, as there is a brief delay before Rosa can move freely after the ascent).
:GCA:Launch Star Attack covers slightly more distance, with it's hitboxes adjusted so that it will still connect reliably.
:GCA:Catch & Release has a much larger/stronger pullbox and more knockback, making it a very practical move for specifically edgeguarding.
:4bowserjr:
:GCA:Piercing Cannon has slightly less startup, with significantly less endlag (which is now faster than the default's, although not as fast as Air Cannon), as well as slightly more shield pressure (although not as much as the default's).
:GCA:Koopa Drift now has the default's KO power.
:GCA:Grounding Dash now has less startup and the default's ending lag, the former improves it's recovery potential (although still inferior to the default's) while the latter properly gives Jr. followup potential if the move lands a bury.
:GCA:Koopa Meteor can now snag the ledge upon ascent.
:GCA:Impatient Mechakoopa grabs and explodes on the opponent midair, repurposing it to be a proper projectile. (Note: it doesn't attach to shielded opponents.)
:GCA:Big Mechakoopa cannot be grabbed and it's hitpoints have increased. This makes the move function more like a shield, improving his nuetral game.
-------------:GCB:However, Bowser Jr. cannot use it a flung projectile either.
:4wario:
:GCA:Inhaling Chomp has marginally more range.
:GCA:All of Garlic Breath's hitboxes now stuns opponents on the ground, and now launches airborne opponents (although it has weak set knockback and is a single hitbox). The move now has the default's ending lag, offering easier setups, as well as ignoring shields if the opponent is close to Wario (it has no effect on shielded opponents away from Wario, which is where he can get punished the hardest). The move now has Inhaling Chomp's range.
:GCA:Widescrew now has the default's travel distance, while still being horizontal.
:GCA:Corkscrew Leap travels slightly farther and has increased speed (although startup remains the same).
:4dk:
:GCA:Chopper Kong has slightly improved horizontal distance, as well as moving ascending slightly faster.
:GCB:Kong Cyclone has less KO power in the air and it's soft landing (where it receives minimal ending lag) has slightly increased ending lag. Both variations has slightly less frames of super armor (particularly towards the end).
:GCB:Both variations of Hand Slap deals slightly less knockback.
:4diddy:
:GCA:Exploding Popgun's explosion has covers noticeably more range up-close, and charges up slightly faster. Uncharged hits deal more damage (1% -> 4%).
:GCA:Jumbo Peanuts now cap at 21% fully charged, rather than 11%.
:GCA:Back Flip's kick deals more knockback in order to most effectively force edgeguarding situations.
:GCA:Flying Monkey Flip transitions slightly faster.
:GCB:Rocketbarrel Attack deals slightly less knockback.
:GCA:Rocketbarrel Kaboom now travels farther than the default.
--------------:GCB:However, collision with him as he travels deals less damage (6-8% -> 2-4%).
:GCA:Instead of being launched, getting hit by Battering Banana Peel now puts you in a short tumble, allowing for better followups.
--------------:GCB:To compensate, it has somewhat slightly more startup.
:4gaw:
:GCA:XXL Chef's food deals slightly more damage, with the actual pan being stronger (making it a somewhat situational, but deadly edgeguarding tool beyond merely gimping short ranged recoveries like the default).
:GCA:Extreme Judge's ones doesn't deal recoil to Game & Watch if the move whiffs. Nines now have the defaut's shield damage.
-------------:GCCN:However, ones still does recoil if it hits the opponent's shield (or a hurtbox like SV's balloon).
:GCB:Trampoline Launch deals less knockback at the apex.
:GCA:Efficient Panic has marginally more range.
:4littlemac:
:GCA::GCDpad:Guard Breaker now properly travels it's distance if used out-of-knockback.
:GCA:Tornado Uppercut travels even farther.
:GCA:Rising Smash's two hits connect to each eachother much more reliably.
:GCA:Dash Counter can now hit opponents in front of Mac, as a result of it's windbox being removed.

Any thoughts? Anything to add on to the characters already mentioned here?
 
Last edited:

Garo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
301
NNID
Garomasta
3DS FC
3308-4572-3157
Pretty reasonable changes overall. My first thought would've been to give :4wario:'s Garlic Breath less startup and increase the stun time, but I guess that's not necessary with your changes.
I would personally give :4mario:'s Fire Orb slightly less startup and ending lag. Same with :4drmario:.
:4bowserjr:'s Impatient Mechakoopa loses much of the utility of the other variants while not being that good of a projectile. I would at least increase it's damage.
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,195
Pretty reasonable changes overall. My first thought would've been to give :4wario:'s Garlic Breath less startup and increase the stun time, but I guess that's not necessary with your changes.
I would personally give :4mario:'s Fire Orb slightly less startup and ending lag. Same with :4drmario:.
:4bowserjr:'s Impatient Mechakoopa loses much of the utility of the other variants while not being that good of a projectile. I would at least increase it's damage.
Opps! I completely forgot about the mechakoopa variants! Gimme a second...

[Edit: also going for less ending lag on Fire Orb / Mega Capsule as well.]
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
Personally, I'd like unique customs for every character, or at least some unique customs for every character. Like why couldn't Mario have gotten his Mario Tornado as a custom special?

More importantly, customs should not be restricted EVER (except maybe in Allstar mode or something).
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,195
Personally, I'd like unique customs for every character, or at least some unique customs for every character. Like why couldn't Mario have gotten his Mario Tornado as a custom special?
One: it takes too much time. Two: Mario already has down air and it differentiate him from Dr. Mario and Luigi.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,423
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
TPitch5
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
As a player who likes the idea of custom special moves, I can probably think of a few moves that could afford to see improvements.

:4zelda:
Nayru's Passion
Zelda receives armor to compensate for losing the ability to reflect projectile attacks.

Farore's Windfall
Make the meteor smash hitbox's knockback stronger, while still being less powerful than Farore's Wind.

Phantom Strike
Dealing more damage at the cost of travel distance seems nice, but not if the knockback dealt is always fixed.

:4ganondorf:
Warlock Thrust
Increase the KBG for the sweetspot so that its usage is more practical. Having super armor during the start-up would also be good.

Dark Vault
Increase the distance of the jump so that its vertical recovery capabilities are better. Additionally, make its offensive use more potent, while staying less powerful than Dark Dive.

Wizard's Assault
If the attack is going to have higher start-up lag, at least make its offensive properties more powerful than that of Wizard's Foot. Having armor during the start-up would also be good.

:4palutena:
Angelic Missile
This attack can be interrupted by any attack, regardless of damage dealt. Implementing armor would be a good way to make the attack not so easy to interrupt.

:4dedede:
Armored Jet Hammer
Super armor is nice, but decreased overall damage is a terrible trade-off. Instead, have the full charge deal greater damage than that of Jet Hammer, but make the charge time longer. The attack still has to have the longer start-up to balance out the super armor period.

:4charizard:
Fireball Cannon
Decrease the amount of frames that Charizard has to use the attack before ending it. Also, increase the amount of knockback that the flames can deal, while also making them transcendent.

Dragon Rush
Having heavy armor would be good, but it will have to be weaker than that of the other Flare Blitz variants.

Fly High
Make its travel distance much more significant so that there would actually be a reason to use it over Fly.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Customs are a good way for characters to include other special abilities/moves from their source games, but unfortunately most of them were just tweaked versions of their standard specials, sometimes with different effects.

:4palutena:, :4miigun:, :4miisword: and :4miibrawl: were awesome for having unique custom specials with completely different animations and everything
:4megaman: has the next best set of custom specials in that they were all taken from his games.

Some honorable mentions go to:
:4luigi: for his Iceball
:4ganondorf: for his Warlock Blade
:4tlink: for his Fire Arrow
:4samus: for her Screw Rush (more accurate Screw Attack)
:4kirby: for his Ice Breath
:4pikachu: for its Thunder Wave and Thunder Shock
:4jigglypuff: for its Hyper Voice

All of the above custom moves are awesome to me because they reference source material. Some custom moves that don't really reference anything are still really cool, like Zero Suit Samus' Shooting Star Flip Kick, but my hope is that the developers take a little more time to give more characters some unique customs and/or ones inspired by their games. Pokemon characters in particular could really benefit from this, as they are known to learn all kinds of moves. I mean Jigglypuff and Lucario can learn Shadow Ball in the games for example; how cool would it be if they had that as a custom neutral special? :p
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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