ICs players: Stop focusing on infinites!

[Nintendude]

I've seen several Ice Climbers players in my region, and when I watch them in friendlies before the tournament starts, they NEVER screw up a chaingrab! Those guys must be pretty good eh? Then I watch them in the tournament and see them lose to noobs. The results go up and lo and behold they got dead last place (or near it). It's pretty painful to witness.

Why is this happening? It's because many ICs players practice for a long time to master the chaingrabs, and then try over and over to get grabs in their matches. That is NOT how you win with the Ice Climbers. Playing smart and good spacing are how you win, especially since there aren't really any ways to combo into grabs like you could in Melee. By playing smart and focusing on non-grab gameplay, you can still do a lot of damage to your opponent and the grab opportunities will appear naturally. While they may be rare, if you are at least going even with your opponent and you capitalize on a single grab opportunity, you've pretty much won the match as long as you continue to play well. If you are behind, then that grab can get you right back in the game. Yes, you can believe that trying over and over to get a grab will get you more grabs than not trying at all, but that doesn't happen if you are facing good players.

Occasionally random people IM me asking for ICs advice. Specifically, they ask how to do the chaingrabs. Unless I know for a fact that the person is good, I usually hesitate to answer their question and respond instead with "learn how to be a smart player first."

 

[KRDsonic]

But I like having other IC users focus only on chain grabs, it makes me look better when I show people I actually know how to fight with them xD.

jk.

Anyways, yeah, only knowing how to chain grab won't win a match. Because what happens if you battle someone who avoids grabs? Or if nana dies? You need to be able to do actual fighting with them at this point.

 

[stoopdklutz]

Learning to play the IC's just cuz of their infinites and using them solely and only to win is not good.

 

[HolyChef]

I've seen several Ice Climbers players in my region, and when I watch them in friendlies before the tournament starts, they NEVER screw up a chaingrab! Those guys must be pretty good eh? Then I watch them in the tournament and see them lose to noobs. The results go up and lo and behold they got dead last place (or near it). It's pretty painful to witness.

Why is this happening? It's because many ICs players practice for a long time to master the chaingrabs, and then try over and over to get grabs in their matches. That is NOT how you win with the Ice Climbers. Playing smart and good spacing are how you win, especially since there aren't really any ways to combo into grabs like you could in Melee. By playing smart and focusing on non-grab gameplay, you can still do a lot of damage to your opponent and the grab opportunities will appear naturally. While they may be rare, if you are at least going even with your opponent and you capitalize on a single grab opportunity, you've pretty much won the match as long as you continue to play well. If you are behind, then that grab can get you right back in the game. Yes, you can believe that trying over and over to get a grab will get you more grabs than not trying at all, but that doesn't happen if you are facing good players.

Occasionally random people IM me asking for ICs advice. Specifically, they ask how to do the chaingrabs. Unless I know for a fact that the person is good, I usually hesitate to answer their question and respond instead with "learn how to be a smart player first."

leave me alone lol

 

[Miller]

Ofc theres people that do that, thats what makes them horrible and separates the good players from the horrible ones.

 

[l3lue2ain]

this is probably why I am so horrible. I feel that chain grabbing is the essence of IC victory. Just like in every combo video its a series of grabs.

 

[FrozenHobo]

the only 'real' chaingrabs i use are the down throw chain (which doesn't last very long) and the side throw to nana fair (and thats mostly for the edges). overall, you're right: if you only rely on chain grabs then you're not playing the ICs to their fullest.


woot for repeating everything just said!

 

[Speedsk8er]

>_________________________>

It's about time someone said it.

 

[Bnzaaa]

I fully agree with this statement. People rely on the chaingrab way too much nowadays. They see it can easily kill when done right and it look nice. People like what they see and if the best are doing it, most people will generally follow. It's like the noob Marth players only using f-airs and f- smashes with a couple of dancing blades and spikes to the side. The f-airs seem to be what make Ken great and that's what they try to do because they want to be the best.

Using mostly grabs can cost a person the match because people expect it already, and the Ice Climbers have poor grab range. They also have a terrible shield grab. So almost only focusing on grabs will severely limit gameplay.

What I mean by that is that the Ice Climbers don't always need zero death to win. Everyone know from Melee that Desynched Ice Climbers are extremely hard to deal with. Even when they aren't desynched, the Ice Climbers still have pretty quick attacks and are powerful too.

I've always been a grab happy person, but in brawl, I've noticed that I try too much to grab. Not even for chaingrabs, but to add free damage or meteor them off the edge. And I noticed that because of this, people that aren't that great at the game play me to close sets.

I've tried training without the use of the grab, and I've noticed that in Ice Climber dittos and against Peach or any mostly airborne character that getting the grab is extremely difficult, so I try to wait for a big mistake. Chaingrabs are the ultimate punishment, whether it racks damage or kills. Trying to grab them when they are free to attack is just asking to get smacked.

Point is, grabbing isn't instant victory if you can't land them. There are other ways to fight with the Ice Climbers that also make them effective. Grabbing isn't bad, but when overused, it can break your match, because the opponent has learned to expect that of the Ice Climber player. Mix it up, and grabbing may come to you eventually in a match. And if not then don't sweat it. It's still possible to win.

 

[l3lue2ain]

Of course nintendo dude would bust out and tell it how it is.

 

[FrozenHobo]

not to mention, chain grabbing over and over again just takes the fun out of the match. even if i lose, i still prefer to enjoy the game rather than win through cheap means.

 

[Yuna]

Why shouldn't they go for a chaingrab/infinite off of every grab? It's like telling a Millia in Guilty Gear to not chain-combo someone halfway across the stage. You should always go for the best option. Who cares about variety, stylishness, "fun" and other BS?

In Competitive play, we play to win. And you should always for the best option in any given situation.

Just because there are idiots who only bother learning how to do the chaingrabs and infinites doesn't mean it's bad to do it or focus on them. Get the basics down, learn how to play Brawl properly, then start focusing on chaingrabbing and infiniting like mad.

 

[l3lue2ain]

Why shouldn't they go for a chaingrab/infinite off of every grab? It's like telling a Millia in Guilty Gear to not chain-combo someone halfway across the stage. You should always go for the best option. Who cares about variety, stylishness, "fun" and other BS?

In Competitive play, we play to win. And you should always for the best option in any given situation.

Just because there are idiots who only bother learning how to do the chaingrabs and infinites doesn't mean it's bad to do it or focus on them. Get the basics down, learn how to play Brawl properly, then start focusing on chaingrabbing and infiniting like mad.

Chaingrabbing does win games :\ I wish i could do it so effective.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Why shouldn't they go for a chaingrab/infinite off of every grab? It's like telling a Millia in Guilty Gear to not chain-combo someone halfway across the stage. You should always go for the best option. Who cares about variety, stylishness, "fun" and other BS?

In Competitive play, we play to win. And you should always for the best option in any given situation.

Just because there are idiots who only bother learning how to do the chaingrabs and infinites doesn't mean it's bad to do it or focus on them. Get the basics down, learn how to play Brawl properly, then start focusing on chaingrabbing and infiniting like mad.

its just a game, dude. chill.

 

[l3lue2ain]

its just a game, dude. chill.

I would have to disagree on that one. Did WaveDashing make Melee chill if you could not then forget about competitive play enjoy being "chill". Waveshining did that make the game chill ? if you got waveshined thats gg. L canceling, short hoping, fast falling dud any of that make them chill ? Don't even get me started on the ken combo what part of that was chill. IC have a gift to be good maybe even the best in competitive play and your talking about being chill.

 

[JustNoOne]

Than you know Marth players learn how to chaingrab with IC just to win agasint Snake? =O

 

[l3lue2ain]

Than you know Marth players learn how to chaingrab with IC just to win agasint Snake? =O

I know broken when I see it.

 

[Mezna]

I don't use IC often, hell, I can't even Chaingrab. But I know if I see them going for a chain grab, they mean to kill me. So mostly, I do hit-n-run tactics that will hurt hem, but also get me out of their grab range. So I agree, you should focus more on just overall fighting and just grab them when they don't expect it. For example, often when I play as DK I'll change my name to SPIKE. I'm sure everyone knows about DK and his crazy dair spike. Well, that usually gets them to try and avoid getting spiked off the edge, which is exactly what I want. They expect me to be doing that, but I usually do different things. Then, when they forget about the whole spike thing, I just stomp their heads into oblivion.

My point is, change your style to normal fighting, make them think they know you, then switch things all around. WIN.

 

[FrozenHobo]

whatever. you can stress out over a game all you want. i'm just saying i won't loose any sleep over it.

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

i agree with frozen popo, its just a game and even in competitive play i partially play to win and partially play for fun, 50-50, but i do focus in chain grabs a little to much, so now im ganna mix it up

 

[Nintendude]

Why shouldn't they go for a chaingrab/infinite off of every grab? It's like telling a Millia in Guilty Gear to not chain-combo someone halfway across the stage. You should always go for the best option. Who cares about variety, stylishness, "fun" and other BS?

In Competitive play, we play to win. And you should always for the best option in any given situation.

Just because there are idiots who only bother learning how to do the chaingrabs and infinites doesn't mean it's bad to do it or focus on them. Get the basics down, learn how to play Brawl properly, then start focusing on chaingrabbing and infiniting like mad.

That's not really what I meant. Obviously if you get a grab, you should capitalize on it as much as possible. In the case of ICs, that should mean death. But there are some cases where you just can't get a grab. ICs grab range sucks and they have no reliable setups for it. So, in this case the only way you can win is with your ability to play grabless ICs.

You kind of hit my message with the last thing you said. Learn how to play smart first and then learn how to chaingrab. The thing that's missing there is learning all the non-grab stuff with ICs. They actually have a lot of options and *gasp* short reliable combos (uair, uair, bair for example). Against really good players, you must use their non-grab stuff to win, as you can only fish for grabs for so long before you fall hopelessly behind.

Just in case it is still not clear to anyone, I'm not saying you shouldn't be chaingrabbing and killing off all your grabs. I'm saying that you guys need to learn how to play a non-grab dependent Ice Climbers.

 

[Yuna]

its just a game, dude. chill.

This thread is about Competitive gaming.

Also, what part of my post indicated I'm not chilling?

Just in case it is still not clear to anyone, I'm not saying you shouldn't be chaingrabbing and killing off all your grabs. I'm saying that you guys need to learn how to play a non-grab dependent Ice Climbers.

Or just to get good. You know, mixups and actual mindgames so they won't see the grabs coming a mile away. And I said that.

My response was directed mostly towards the other people in this thread and not you specifically because apparently no one read the OP since the majority of the responses are "This is how to deal with ICs" or "Yeah, chaingrabbing is so cheap!".

We're both saying the same thing, I'm just repeating it for the intellectually impaired.

 

[Swordplay]

I have to agree with this thread. Unless you can play IC's well without chaingrabs your in trouble. CG's can never hurt to learn but if you spend to much time in it it can hut your game.

What i did and what I recommend is the bassic D-throw to nana spikes them down from above CG at low percents.

This is so easy to learn. best of all at higher pecents you can't repeat the CG but you go into ice blocks and ice block lock them for alot of damage.

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

you mean you can use bair after 2 uairs?

 

[FrozenHobo]

you mean you can use bair after 2 uairs?

*** long as you have enough room before landing, i'm guessing.

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

Yuna, this thread is not abotu competitive play, its about not trying to chain grab all the time, and stopped being chill after you called fun stylish play BS and quoted fun

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

*** long as you have enough room before landing, i'm guessing.

oh cool, i can usually only get to uairs in

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

frozen popo did you download that stage or did you make it?

 

[TheX0913]

i'm glad someone mentioned this. I feel that every character has room for progression. when you find something and stick to it without exploring other options its called settling. And we all know settling leads to relationships that you feel horrible in or a job sitting at a desk and just pushing pencils.

 

[l3lue2ain]

haha the stage looks fun

 

[Yuna]

Yuna, this thread is not abotu competitive play, its about not trying to chain grab all the time,

From the OP: "Then I watch them in the tournament and see them lose to noobs. The results go up and lo and behold they got dead last place (or near it). It's pretty painful to witness."

It's at least partially about Competitive play. Who the hell goes all out and infinites in friendlies, anyway? Why would anyone learn how to do the infinites and chaingrabs perfectly just for friendlies?

and stopped being chill after you called fun stylish play BS and quoted fun

I can stay calm while calling things BS. I'm just cool like that.

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

i actually go out of my way to learn infinites with friendlies actually, he can beat me with any character so a cg is the only way i can kill him if i manage to pull it off

 

[Nintendude]

you mean you can use bair after 2 uairs?

At low %, yes, or you can just use another uair or whatever. uair ends extremely quickly in Brawl so it is capable of comboing.

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

oh ok i will keep this in mind

 

[JustNoOne]

If every IC user chaingrabs on everyone since we need to capitalize on our grabs as much as possible, than that would mean auto stock loss! =O My friend called me cheap for CGing him till 50% :*(

But true, to be a great IC user, you need to know the basic and play without CG since just CG isn't going to be the main way you rack up damage or even kill. Heck I rarely chaingrab and people are better off squalling or dual blizarding infront of your opponent to rack up the points =D

 

[FrozenHobo]

frozen popo did you download that stage or did you make it?

downloaded it. its a remake of teh original ICs Nes bonus stage. found it while looking around online. i have, however, made a few IC stages that i will post as soon as i get a card reader. i've got this one: Infinite Glacier, shaped like a mountain but the inside is full of platforms and ladders. very fun for FFAs.

here it is: http://images.google.com/imgres?img...w&prev=/images?q=ice+climbers&um=1&hl=en&sa=N

 

[l3lue2ain]

All I have to say no one says anything with King Dedede uses his chain grabs, No one says anything when a ic gets gimped by meta knight, No one says anything when snake never dies, No one says anything when Ike one hit K.0's like everyone, no one says anything when people are spamming projectiles. In my friendly matches that I play people are playing tournament level game play so I don't see whats so friendly about that. Its things like that why I can't get good with IC.

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

downloaded it. its a remake of teh original ICs Nes bonus stage. found it while looking around online. i have, however, made a few IC stages that i will post as soon as i get a card reader. i've got this one: Infinite Glacier, shaped like a mountain but the inside is full of platforms and ladders. very fun for FFAs.

here it is: http://images.google.com/imgres?img...w&prev=/images?q=ice+climbers&um=1&hl=en&sa=N

you must give

 

[FrozenHobo]

you must give

send me your Brawl/Wii code and i'll send it to you... along with a few more stages.... (my pride and joy, Retroworld and Retroworld 2.... mmmm)

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

dang i have to do it later today