Daniv
Smash Rookie
So you come to learn how to use the lonely Ice Climbers, well you came to the right place!
What will I learn from this?
On this guide I will show you from the Basic stuff ICs can execute to the Advanced wacky stylish stuff you can execute,Here are the contents of this guide.(This guide was made for people who know the smash terms such as DI,Nair,Fair,Pivoting,CC,etc)
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I. ICs Pros and Cons
II. How to use ICs
III. How do I beat my opponent with ICs
IV. Fundamentals
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I.ICs Pros and Cons
+Excellent grab game
+Many kills moves versus opponent at high percent
+Great combo game when you have both climbers alive
+Falling speed does not make them a easy combo character
+Great recovery with both climbers alive
+Great wavedash movement
+Being able to make the Nana do another move at almost any time turning situations in a 2v1
-Low grab range
-Low attack range
-Nana AI is not great recovering,dodging or following you when you get thrown away
-Losing Nana makes your character more vulnerable to easy kills
-Low speed most attacks
II.How to use ICs
ICs have a powerful teamwork game, when they are synced they have double hitboxes,double damage(If both attacks hit) Better recovery so you want to keep Nana alive as long as possible. One thing ICs can do is Desync, in which makes thems cover more options and extend your approach options.
III. How do I beat my opponent with ICs
Since ICs have a big problem approaching you have to study your opponent approach options to use them as your advantage, the biggest strength they have is getting that grab and converting it into tons of damage.Unlike most characters that have a great speed or great grab range ICs lack those things, they have poor shield pressure so rushing down with them will not always be the best options, ICs neutral is all about baiting your opponent in approaching you and once you get the change you punish them to get that grab.
IV. Fundamentals
What will I learn from this?
On this guide I will show you from the Basic stuff ICs can execute to the Advanced wacky stylish stuff you can execute,Here are the contents of this guide.(This guide was made for people who know the smash terms such as DI,Nair,Fair,Pivoting,CC,etc)
-----------------------------------------------------------
I. ICs Pros and Cons
II. How to use ICs
III. How do I beat my opponent with ICs
IV. Fundamentals
V. Teamwork
VI. Movement
VII. Recovery
VIII. Grabs
IX. Desyncs
X. Edgeguarding
XI. StagesVI. Movement
VII. Recovery
VIII. Grabs
IX. Desyncs
X. Edgeguarding
XII. Neutral Stages
XIII. Counter Pick Stages
XIV. Final NotesXIII. Counter Pick Stages
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I.ICs Pros and Cons
+Excellent grab game
+Many kills moves versus opponent at high percent
+Great combo game when you have both climbers alive
+Falling speed does not make them a easy combo character
+Great recovery with both climbers alive
+Great wavedash movement
+Being able to make the Nana do another move at almost any time turning situations in a 2v1
-Low grab range
-Low attack range
-Nana AI is not great recovering,dodging or following you when you get thrown away
-Losing Nana makes your character more vulnerable to easy kills
-Low speed most attacks
II.How to use ICs
ICs have a powerful teamwork game, when they are synced they have double hitboxes,double damage(If both attacks hit) Better recovery so you want to keep Nana alive as long as possible. One thing ICs can do is Desync, in which makes thems cover more options and extend your approach options.
III. How do I beat my opponent with ICs
Since ICs have a big problem approaching you have to study your opponent approach options to use them as your advantage, the biggest strength they have is getting that grab and converting it into tons of damage.Unlike most characters that have a great speed or great grab range ICs lack those things, they have poor shield pressure so rushing down with them will not always be the best options, ICs neutral is all about baiting your opponent in approaching you and once you get the change you punish them to get that grab.
IV. Fundamentals
V. Teamwork
The first thing you need to do is adapt to the character, when you use the ICs you must remember you are in control of two characters with one being always desynced for 6 frames behind you which gives them a power to get out of grabs and combos early with the addition to be able to extend their combos to the max.
VI. Movement
Movement is one of the most important a character must have on this game,since ICs have one of the best Wavedashes on the game,making them a threat even at long distances. One thing you should take note in is always move in different ways to mix up your movement so your opponent does not know whats coming next. Here is a short list of things you can implement into your ICs neutral:
Wavedash on all possible ways:(On stage, On platforms, Ledgedash,Out of shield,sliding off platforms or off stage,etc)
Use you aerials from platforms:If you caught your opponent with a surprise aerial while falling for example off a platform to punish your opponent. You can use the aerial before touching the ground or when you can mix up your timing and use it earlier to screw with your opponent's timing and convert into a punish.
Dashdancing,Pivoting and Foxtrotting:Making a well spaced Dashdance can become a opportunity for a big punish which you can get out off a Foxtrot too,Using pivots can Desync your characters, I will talk about that in another section.
Separate Nana:Try to make the both climbers separate for a bit to cover as much space as you can, just remember to don't isolate Nana for too long.
VII. Recovery
When you have both climbers your chances or dying by a gimp are pretty minimal as long as you follow the next tips:
Don't try to get on stage alone: If Nana is close to you get in the range so you can do a Side-B or an Up-B to recover with her(Remember when Nana is in hitstun you need to resync her with a quick aerial like Uair)
Go for the ledge: ICs let themselves vulnerable when they recover on stage, unless your opponent is holding the ledge, try to get as close as you can and use your Up-B to auto snap to the ledge, if he is grabbing the ledge you can still use your Side-B to hit him or force him to go on stage.With all this in mind some character got the tools to stop you from getting to the ledge(Sheik's needles and such)
Use different heights with Side-B: Side-B is a great move to recover when you don't have the resources to use your Up-B, just remember going to high is dangerous because the falling speed of ICs is not that great(Remember if Nana gets hit, Popo will fall to his death, so take care while fighting a character with projectiles that have hitstun such a Falco's Lasers)
VIII. Grabs
ICs have a bad grab range, but once you get a grab you can unleash ton of damage between the opponent and the climbers, but remember to spice it up to deal extra damage, like this examples:
Mix up your regrab game: If you are in will to get some extra damage when your opponent is at low percents you can chain up air into regrab on some characters until 40-60 percent, and when you want more depth chain grabs you can do F-Throw into a sweetspoted Fair which will throw them on the ground and can be a tech chase situation, remember they can still SDI out of the normal D-throw>Dair, so try to mix it up so your opponent cant exit the string so easily.
Other moves that can link to more grabs:Footstool,Nana jumping Down B (If they dont SDI),Side B,Nair,Neutral B.
Use other alternatives vs fastfallers: When fast fallers are at low Percent and there no platforms close to them, try doing D-Throw>Up smash>Regrab or even U-Throw to a regrab, this is great if you are willing to mix up your grab game and give some damage in exchange Works until 50-55 Percent.
Handoffs: When Nana is 30 Frames close to the ledge (Almost a Back roll from the ledge) she will do a F-Throw instead of a U-Throw(When she is not close to a ledge).So you do a D-Throw once you make Nana regrab(The timing depends on the weight of the character you are doing the throw on) you need to WALK and get another grab(The timing or F throw is ALWAYS the same), if you try to do a dash grab or a JC dash grab you will slide to the end of the ledge and will not be able to get more handoffs.
Nana stop midgrab: On 3.6 the ability to do mid stage Brawl handoffs has been removed, but making nana stop on the middle of a grab is still in the game, this happens when nana is out of your range, she will stop completely in the grab, once you get close she will do a throw depending on where she is(Mid stage up throw, close to a ledge back or forward throw) as of now we have not found a way to control her throws.
Finishing the string:Once you think its enough you should convert a grab into a kill, one of your best options are charging a smash attack as Nana to have extra power and mix up DI(release fsmash at the start of down throw,peek of up throw,release of back throw to hit them the opposite direction).But If you want to get creative there are ways to get a kill at lower Percents, for example getting handoffs and let Nana release>Start running>Jump and do a sweetspotted Fair and they will be sent down to the blast zone(Fair is still a Meteor) that is a little example to a million ways you can mix up your way to kill your opponent.
VIX. Desyncs
This is the moment you can unleash the teamwork power ICs have.
Melee Desyncs
Rolling and spotdodging: When you roll or spotdodge you can buffer the action Nana will do next(you don't need to hold it like in melee) just by pressing it in the middle of the roll/spotdodge, the most common ones are Down B and Neutral B but you can make her hold a smash attack, do a jump and then you can do a tilt/smash attack so she does an aerial and the list will go on and on, it's all up to your imagination.
Dashdancing and Pivot desyncs: When you do a dash dance 2 times (Foward>Backwards>Foward) Nana will be in a state where she can do any sort of special attack, and when you do a pivot smash attack,Jab or any kind of pivot, Nana will do a Dash attack instead of the pivot, with this you can pop them up and follow with any move that comes to your mind.
New Desyncs
Autosnapping to ledge with Up-B Desync:When you autosnap to the ledge with your Up-B Nana can do an action and make Popo stay on the ledge or do another action, for instanse wait until you see Popo being dragged in and press the attack button so Nana does a Ledge attack, this can come in handy if they are waiting for you on the ledge and you want to throw a surprise attack.
Cstick on shield Desync: When you are on your shield and you flick the Cstick up Nana will do a Up Smash as you jump, you can also wavedash out of it to keep them desynced or you can try to go for a follow up if Nana gets the Up Smash to hit. If you roll and buffer the next roll to the opposite direction with the Cstick Nana will do a grab as you roll again.
X. Edgeguarding
When you edgeguard as ICs there are many ways to make it so your opponents is forced to go onstage
Make Nana stage on stage and Popo grab the ledge: If you desync a move that doesn't makes Nana fall from the ledge(Smash attacks,Up B,etc) then wavedash back so Popo grabs the ledge and hold the opposite direction the ledge is Nana will keep walking while you hold the ledge, if someone tries to grab the ledge you can simply press the shield button really fast to roll and make Nana do a smash attack with the Cstick to send them off stage again. Even with this you can still do the traditional go off stage and try to do a gimp for just in case your opponent is using a character with a recovery that doesn't brings them to helpless animation.
XI. StagesThe first thing you need to do is adapt to the character, when you use the ICs you must remember you are in control of two characters with one being always desynced for 6 frames behind you which gives them a power to get out of grabs and combos early with the addition to be able to extend their combos to the max.
VI. Movement
Movement is one of the most important a character must have on this game,since ICs have one of the best Wavedashes on the game,making them a threat even at long distances. One thing you should take note in is always move in different ways to mix up your movement so your opponent does not know whats coming next. Here is a short list of things you can implement into your ICs neutral:
Wavedash on all possible ways:(On stage, On platforms, Ledgedash,Out of shield,sliding off platforms or off stage,etc)
Use you aerials from platforms:If you caught your opponent with a surprise aerial while falling for example off a platform to punish your opponent. You can use the aerial before touching the ground or when you can mix up your timing and use it earlier to screw with your opponent's timing and convert into a punish.
Dashdancing,Pivoting and Foxtrotting:Making a well spaced Dashdance can become a opportunity for a big punish which you can get out off a Foxtrot too,Using pivots can Desync your characters, I will talk about that in another section.
Separate Nana:Try to make the both climbers separate for a bit to cover as much space as you can, just remember to don't isolate Nana for too long.
VII. Recovery
When you have both climbers your chances or dying by a gimp are pretty minimal as long as you follow the next tips:
Don't try to get on stage alone: If Nana is close to you get in the range so you can do a Side-B or an Up-B to recover with her(Remember when Nana is in hitstun you need to resync her with a quick aerial like Uair)
Go for the ledge: ICs let themselves vulnerable when they recover on stage, unless your opponent is holding the ledge, try to get as close as you can and use your Up-B to auto snap to the ledge, if he is grabbing the ledge you can still use your Side-B to hit him or force him to go on stage.With all this in mind some character got the tools to stop you from getting to the ledge(Sheik's needles and such)
Use different heights with Side-B: Side-B is a great move to recover when you don't have the resources to use your Up-B, just remember going to high is dangerous because the falling speed of ICs is not that great(Remember if Nana gets hit, Popo will fall to his death, so take care while fighting a character with projectiles that have hitstun such a Falco's Lasers)
VIII. Grabs
ICs have a bad grab range, but once you get a grab you can unleash ton of damage between the opponent and the climbers, but remember to spice it up to deal extra damage, like this examples:
Mix up your regrab game: If you are in will to get some extra damage when your opponent is at low percents you can chain up air into regrab on some characters until 40-60 percent, and when you want more depth chain grabs you can do F-Throw into a sweetspoted Fair which will throw them on the ground and can be a tech chase situation, remember they can still SDI out of the normal D-throw>Dair, so try to mix it up so your opponent cant exit the string so easily.
Other moves that can link to more grabs:Footstool,Nana jumping Down B (If they dont SDI),Side B,Nair,Neutral B.
Use other alternatives vs fastfallers: When fast fallers are at low Percent and there no platforms close to them, try doing D-Throw>Up smash>Regrab or even U-Throw to a regrab, this is great if you are willing to mix up your grab game and give some damage in exchange Works until 50-55 Percent.
Handoffs: When Nana is 30 Frames close to the ledge (Almost a Back roll from the ledge) she will do a F-Throw instead of a U-Throw(When she is not close to a ledge).So you do a D-Throw once you make Nana regrab(The timing depends on the weight of the character you are doing the throw on) you need to WALK and get another grab(The timing or F throw is ALWAYS the same), if you try to do a dash grab or a JC dash grab you will slide to the end of the ledge and will not be able to get more handoffs.
Nana stop midgrab: On 3.6 the ability to do mid stage Brawl handoffs has been removed, but making nana stop on the middle of a grab is still in the game, this happens when nana is out of your range, she will stop completely in the grab, once you get close she will do a throw depending on where she is(Mid stage up throw, close to a ledge back or forward throw) as of now we have not found a way to control her throws.
Finishing the string:Once you think its enough you should convert a grab into a kill, one of your best options are charging a smash attack as Nana to have extra power and mix up DI(release fsmash at the start of down throw,peek of up throw,release of back throw to hit them the opposite direction).But If you want to get creative there are ways to get a kill at lower Percents, for example getting handoffs and let Nana release>Start running>Jump and do a sweetspotted Fair and they will be sent down to the blast zone(Fair is still a Meteor) that is a little example to a million ways you can mix up your way to kill your opponent.
VIX. Desyncs
This is the moment you can unleash the teamwork power ICs have.
Melee Desyncs
Rolling and spotdodging: When you roll or spotdodge you can buffer the action Nana will do next(you don't need to hold it like in melee) just by pressing it in the middle of the roll/spotdodge, the most common ones are Down B and Neutral B but you can make her hold a smash attack, do a jump and then you can do a tilt/smash attack so she does an aerial and the list will go on and on, it's all up to your imagination.
Dashdancing and Pivot desyncs: When you do a dash dance 2 times (Foward>Backwards>Foward) Nana will be in a state where she can do any sort of special attack, and when you do a pivot smash attack,Jab or any kind of pivot, Nana will do a Dash attack instead of the pivot, with this you can pop them up and follow with any move that comes to your mind.
New Desyncs
Autosnapping to ledge with Up-B Desync:When you autosnap to the ledge with your Up-B Nana can do an action and make Popo stay on the ledge or do another action, for instanse wait until you see Popo being dragged in and press the attack button so Nana does a Ledge attack, this can come in handy if they are waiting for you on the ledge and you want to throw a surprise attack.
Cstick on shield Desync: When you are on your shield and you flick the Cstick up Nana will do a Up Smash as you jump, you can also wavedash out of it to keep them desynced or you can try to go for a follow up if Nana gets the Up Smash to hit. If you roll and buffer the next roll to the opposite direction with the Cstick Nana will do a grab as you roll again.
X. Edgeguarding
When you edgeguard as ICs there are many ways to make it so your opponents is forced to go onstage
Make Nana stage on stage and Popo grab the ledge: If you desync a move that doesn't makes Nana fall from the ledge(Smash attacks,Up B,etc) then wavedash back so Popo grabs the ledge and hold the opposite direction the ledge is Nana will keep walking while you hold the ledge, if someone tries to grab the ledge you can simply press the shield button really fast to roll and make Nana do a smash attack with the Cstick to send them off stage again. Even with this you can still do the traditional go off stage and try to do a gimp for just in case your opponent is using a character with a recovery that doesn't brings them to helpless animation.
XII. Neutral Stages
Yoshi's Story:A small stage is great to do quick desync(Dash dance,Pivot) and be closer to you opponent and get as much grabs as you can.
Green Hill Zone:This stage has an overall size with a platform that moves, Is a good stage for ICs with that moving platform helping on mobility, the high ceiling gives the lack of up smash kills and if your opponent ignores the platform you have a flat stage that benefits more the ICs gameplan.
Pokemon Stadium 2: A semi large stage, there are only two platforms that are separated from each other makes
Battlefield: A medium stage, has a lot of platforms which doesn't benefits the ICs gameplan too much.
Smashville:A flat stage with a large moving platform from side to side, help you if you are in need of another alternative to recover, the moving platform could still be used for camping but waiting for it to move closer to the stage isn't that bad
Dreamland:This stage just like battlefield has a lot of platforms which isnt that great for the ICs gameplan too much.
Distant Planet:A semi large stage with four platforms, totally what you are not searching for, makes it to easy for your opponent to stay on top of you or in any other case you could get platform camped by some characters.
XII.Counter Pick Stages
Lylat Cruise: A stage with slanted stages and three platforms not so far from the ground.The close to ground platforms might not be a big impact on the ICs neutral but take in mind your shield has more probability to get poked more often.
Yoshi's Island:This stage depend more on the character, if you are facing a character that can out camp you on platforms or a character poking you shield when you are forced into a ledge this could be a good pick for those matchups.
Wario Ware:A tiny stage with 4 four platforms, since the platforms dont help that much ICs they still have this narrow stage to be able to have more Handoffs/Chaingrabs
Final Destination:This is the best stage for ICs, lack of platforms, enough space to do anything, a perfect stage made for ICs.
Norfair:Another big stage, this one has to enormous platforms that move slowy, great stage for ICs giving you enough space and mobility options, those top platforms will not keep them away from you since they are large enough for you to move around
Fountain of Dreams:A small stage with three platforms, but two of those start moving up and down and even go through the floor and come back, half the time you will not like the stage because how low the platforms can go ruining any chance of chain grab, but when they disappear that top platform will not save them from getting their shield poked and making them go down and then its your chance to get a grab, take in mind the timing on both platforms is random and they don't follow each other.
Skyworld:A stage with three platforms that are scattered on the side of the stage and above, the top platform almost covers the whole stage, while the side platforms aid players with more opportunities to recover, still taking in mind how much platforms are used on this stage it will not benefit you from characters running away to the platforms.
XIX.Final Notes
This is all refereed to version 3.5, I am going to update this once the game is updated, until then I hope this helps any ICs future main. Cheers~ =)
Melee ICs guide in case you need help on anything related to melee ICs that PM ICs also have
PS:My first post/Character Guide
(extra information/helper:Foxy K )
Yoshi's Story:A small stage is great to do quick desync(Dash dance,Pivot) and be closer to you opponent and get as much grabs as you can.
Green Hill Zone:This stage has an overall size with a platform that moves, Is a good stage for ICs with that moving platform helping on mobility, the high ceiling gives the lack of up smash kills and if your opponent ignores the platform you have a flat stage that benefits more the ICs gameplan.
Pokemon Stadium 2: A semi large stage, there are only two platforms that are separated from each other makes
Battlefield: A medium stage, has a lot of platforms which doesn't benefits the ICs gameplan too much.
Smashville:A flat stage with a large moving platform from side to side, help you if you are in need of another alternative to recover, the moving platform could still be used for camping but waiting for it to move closer to the stage isn't that bad
Dreamland:This stage just like battlefield has a lot of platforms which isnt that great for the ICs gameplan too much.
Distant Planet:A semi large stage with four platforms, totally what you are not searching for, makes it to easy for your opponent to stay on top of you or in any other case you could get platform camped by some characters.
XII.Counter Pick Stages
Lylat Cruise: A stage with slanted stages and three platforms not so far from the ground.The close to ground platforms might not be a big impact on the ICs neutral but take in mind your shield has more probability to get poked more often.
Yoshi's Island:This stage depend more on the character, if you are facing a character that can out camp you on platforms or a character poking you shield when you are forced into a ledge this could be a good pick for those matchups.
Wario Ware:A tiny stage with 4 four platforms, since the platforms dont help that much ICs they still have this narrow stage to be able to have more Handoffs/Chaingrabs
Final Destination:This is the best stage for ICs, lack of platforms, enough space to do anything, a perfect stage made for ICs.
Norfair:Another big stage, this one has to enormous platforms that move slowy, great stage for ICs giving you enough space and mobility options, those top platforms will not keep them away from you since they are large enough for you to move around
Fountain of Dreams:A small stage with three platforms, but two of those start moving up and down and even go through the floor and come back, half the time you will not like the stage because how low the platforms can go ruining any chance of chain grab, but when they disappear that top platform will not save them from getting their shield poked and making them go down and then its your chance to get a grab, take in mind the timing on both platforms is random and they don't follow each other.
Skyworld:A stage with three platforms that are scattered on the side of the stage and above, the top platform almost covers the whole stage, while the side platforms aid players with more opportunities to recover, still taking in mind how much platforms are used on this stage it will not benefit you from characters running away to the platforms.
XIX.Final Notes
This is all refereed to version 3.5, I am going to update this once the game is updated, until then I hope this helps any ICs future main. Cheers~ =)
Melee ICs guide in case you need help on anything related to melee ICs that PM ICs also have
PS:My first post/Character Guide
(extra information/helper:Foxy K )
Last edited:
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