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Ice Climbers MU Discussion

Foxy K

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Ok guys, anyone know anything about the Peach matchup? I know it's rough, but what is our best avenue of success against her?
 

KingDozie

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Ok guys, anyone know anything about the Peach matchup? I know it's rough, but what is our best avenue of success against her?
You can space out the FC Fair then punish with a Wavedash Fsmash,Grab, and desync blizzards/Upair or SideB/Quick Nair. DJC nair just OOS wavedash Jab to grab,Uptilt juggles or Ftilt, and Dash attack. Dash attack i can OOS wavedash CC down smash or Shield Grab. For edgeguarding just try to stay center stage. Avoid turnips or catch them.For Peach dsmash roll away from her.
 

Foxy K

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I checked out the Melee MU thread, which painted a pretty depressing picture, but thanks KingDozie for the tips.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

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Anyone know anything about the Link MU? It's my most common match, and I'm assuming it's basically like in Melee, but Link's buffs make it a constant uphill battle for me. He outcamps Ice Block most of the time. Arrows are annoying IC separators. He's easily combo'd off of grabs, of course, but at higher percents he's difficult to finish if I can't get a grab.
 
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Nemiak temp

Smash Apprentice
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178
I second this request. Link as well. We can't outcamp them and I don't see how we would get past the projectile wall since we're not really built for that either.
Link is haaaaard. Don't bother with desynch walls or anything like that because his walling game with boomerang is just better. Try to stay on top of him with jabs//dsmash etc. Link can shut down any of your approaches with fsmash lol
 

Foxy K

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Toon Link more or less the same? I got beat by a less skilled player than me who went TL after our first match, and I had to switch to Fox.
 

Iceman

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So how do you guys feel about the Roy matchup? I try to play it the same as Marth, but his down tilt is annoying. It pops us up instead of away, so I feel more vulnerable when I get hit by it.
 

KingDozie

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So how do you guys feel about the Roy matchup? I try to play it the same as Marth, but his down tilt is annoying. It pops us up instead of away, so I feel more vulnerable when I get hit by it.
OOS wavedash more or jab quickly before he use that move, Use a lot of dash attack or get below him for Upairs or Uptilts. For tilts just space correctly to shield grab or CC grab/ or Dsmash Fsmash. This is important to camp him so make sure you use desync or not Bilzzards. Dont really use ice block because he can just hit it away with his disjointed hitbox.
 

Drugfreechu

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Toon Link more or less the same? I got beat by a less skilled player than me who went TL after our first match, and I had to switch to Fox.
I fight a Toon Link with ICs quite often, and I think it's in the IC's favor, probably about 70:30. They can edgeguard TL fairly easily, and TL can't edgeguard them as easily as some other characters can. They outrange most of TL's moves, and wavedash grabs work well. Also, Sopo has lasting chaingrabs against him.
 
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Foxy K

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How do you deal with Sonic spin attacks and Yoshi egg roll?
A) I don't really know what I'm talking about, B) My suggestions should be tested

I'm just spitballing here, but I'm pretty sure blizzard stops egg roll, and I'm somewhat less sure, but still pretty sure that blizzard stops spin attacks. As far as Yoshi being able to quickly cancel the egg roll right outside of blizzard range and screw with us from there, I don't know. But my first thought is blizzard. Did you fight a Yoshi and/or Sonic? If so, what did you try to do and how did it go?
 

KingDozie

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For Sonic i just use Nana desync Down b or ice block to grab is really effective. Short hop ice block is pretty good if he just keeps coming at you. I like to Jab or dash attack when he's grounded. If he tries to jump to you just uptilt or fsmash. For Yoshi, I used Uptilt is also a good move since it hits multiple times and disturbs/catches his doublejump. Bair and Nair is very strong and knocks yoshi out of his dj often. I should also add blizzard in this Mu.
 

Foxy K

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Went to a tournament a few days ago, got blown up by a Luigi and a Yoshi.

Luigi is a ******* because he's extremely hard to combo due to his floatiness and ability to "Zelda" you and interrupt your juggles with fast, strong aerials. I also found him very difficult to edgeguard since he can come back from just about anywhere he doesn't die outright and has the ability to control exactly how far he is from the ledge, ultimately sweetspotting his up b just right, every time. Wasn't sure what to do about that, tips? I feel like it's very important to land chain throws on him since he can't be normally comboed, but I found him hard to grab. I think I need to shield grab him in the middle of his tornado (which he used to approach a lot), but I don't know. Has anyone had success with that?

Yoshi was possibly even worse. I usually bully people with my ability to throw out double hitboxes, especially through grabs (because people still try to grab me lol) and poorly-spaced projectiles. But Yoshi goes right through all of that ****, so I'm not sure what to do about that. I usually try to corner people and use Nana blizzards to shut down approaches and land grabs, but Yoshi doesn't care about blizzard. Any tips for him? Should I try to ice block camp him or something?
 

KingDozie

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Went to a tournament a few days ago, got blown up by a Luigi and a Yoshi.

Luigi is a ******* because he's extremely hard to combo due to his floatiness and ability to "Zelda" you and interrupt your juggles with fast, strong aerials. I also found him very difficult to edgeguard since he can come back from just about anywhere he doesn't die outright and has the ability to control exactly how far he is from the ledge, ultimately sweetspotting his up b just right, every time. Wasn't sure what to do about that, tips? I feel like it's very important to land chain throws on him since he can't be normally comboed, but I found him hard to grab. I think I need to shield grab him in the middle of his tornado (which he used to approach a lot), but I don't know. Has anyone had success with that?

Yoshi was possibly even worse. I usually bully people with my ability to throw out double hitboxes, especially through grabs (because people still try to grab me lol) and poorly-spaced projectiles. But Yoshi goes right through all of that ****, so I'm not sure what to do about that. I usually try to corner people and use Nana blizzards to shut down approaches and land grabs, but Yoshi doesn't care about blizzard. Any tips for him? Should I try to ice block camp him or something?
IDK about Luigi but record some yoshi stuff.

Yoshi

For some reason Dash attack,Nair, and Blizzards was helping me alot in this Mu. Dont give Yoshi any room to use Eggs.
When he tries to grab you with Neutral b or a regular grab just throw out a Fsmash or Dsmash. For Egg Roll just SHort hop ice blocks or Blizzards.

Uptilt is also a good move since it hits multiple times and disturbs/catches his doublejump. Bair and Nair is very strong and knocks yoshi out of his dj often.

-KOC
 

Foxy K

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Thanks for the input, but none of the things you suggested would have worked on this particular yoshi. He didn't egg camp or use them much at all, and he didn't use side b a lot either. He mainly let me attack him and either CC d smashed or DJC armor naired through everything. Then he'd gimp me out of my synched squall recovery. It was ridiculous.

Oh, he also rolled backwards to escape grabs, which was ridiculous. I don't think his roll is nearly as punishable in PM as it was in melee.

I think careful grabs would have beaten his tactics, but when I did land them, I messed up my chains because I'm not used to the throw speed against him.
 

steelguttey

mei is bei
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Good Stages: Yoshi's Island Melee, Halbred, BF and Skyloft.

Percent at which flowered purple usmash can kill at: 67%

Matchup Ratio: ?-? (nobody plays these characters lol

Tips:
I have never played Ics vs Olimar that much but i can try so here we go.

Olimar really likes to use/throw hes pikim right, i think the right thing to do is to blizzard/iceblock desynch camp or ftilt to stop them annoying pikims. After he runs out of pikim go after with Jab to grab, Desynch blizzard, (Both ics) Nair or nice space fairs for aerials i like that alot. He shouldnt go for grabs since theirs two of them and he might get smash attack. If he goes for aerials try to dash attack and wavedash under him then Upair or Uptilt Spamming. Avoid platforms because of Upair and also you should go for alot of grabs since Olimar spotdodge isnt that good and if he rolls you can just dsmash punish, Hes wavedash isnt that good either. Hes light so i could kill him with a grab combo like dthrow + upsmash, upthrow + bair, or upthrow + fair. The stage i would avoid is fod and dl. Best stages Yoshi, Halbred, BF, and Skyloft lol
You guys can add your input as well :popo:
I don't know a lot about this matchup.

But I do know that Olimar's N-Air is pretty much a free ICs separator. SHFFL N-Air is very effective against ICs.

Other than that this is kind of a bait and punish thing. And get Purple. Purple goes through everything, like always.

Also Olimar's spotdodge is good. His roll is not though.
 
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Hinichii.ez.™

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Community: advice on ( ) match up?
Community: nana 1 frame link hard
Community: game is hard
Me: wait till 3.5 the hard times won't be as hard. The ICs are missing things that would make them..viable. I hope IC get the brawl hand offs, and a buffed neatral game. If they don't at least get the buffed neatral game, they are still gonna suck.
 
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Iceman

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Community: advice on ( ) match up?
Community: nana 1 frame link hard
Community: game is hard
Me: wait till 3.5 the hard times won't be as hard. The ICs are missing things that would make them..viable. I hope IC get the brawl hand offs, and a buffed neatral game. If they don't at least get the buffed neatral game, they are still gonna suck.
They aren't getting brawl handoffs. I think their neutral game is fine. It's their punish game that needs works
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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You can't get in on like.. Anyone. Because your neatral is so weak compared to most of the cast.
Blizzard covers very little room, it's not like your neatral b is intemidating or can be converted very well, laggy aerials, not the best grab range... I mean we got melee climbers with a worsened grab game.
 

FirewaterDM

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I've found nair to work a bit in terms of approaching, but it's not the greatest

At the same timee, the person that i play the most offline uses a lot of Ivysaur and Mewtwo, any tips for that matchup?
 
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Chesstiger2612

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The thing about nair is that your aerial horizontal momentum is pretty weak. If timed well it should be good on shield if Nana nair hits right before landing. Do not use it as approach from distance because they can easily go back and punish. Use it if they are somehow closer and your lack of horizontal momentum isn't enough to give them an easy retreat-without-shield -> punish
 

Chesstiger2612

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If you are far enough away, you can shield or spot dodge the Razor Leaf, if you see Ivy doing it close to you, you can dash in and CC which will give you a counter hit. Ivysaurs edgeguarding is mean indeed, sometimes, SDIing the first bair hit up and/or in helps. Because of Ivy's movement properties, catching the Pokemon with a Nana down-b when it tries to do an aerial can prove very effective, and the ground approaches are inferior to the IC's ones. Be careful with nair and fair in neutral, Nana tends to get caught by the nair and fair is difficult to handle because of its range and the aftwewards mobility (wavelanding after it is possible).
 

Chesstiger2612

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Space around it and bait it out mostly, prevent it with a desync Nana Ice Block & Popo approach, or even CC/shield. Here you do have several options which you need to mix up because none of them is the ultimative answer to it...
 

Chesstiger2612

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But if you look more closely, it makes sense. ICs do have a projectile that can annoy Zard, being 2 climbers ruins the down-throw techchase, and Zard is big enough of a target to make desync combos more effective.
 

Chesstiger2612

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Link is extremely hard, as is Diddy Kong. The Game&Watch matchup seems to be even.
For projectiles in general, if they are fired from distance thats often the time you need to initiate a spot dodge desync.
 

RideTheLine

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Any advice on the Rob or Snake matchup?
Ice Blocks can scan for mines. A healthy amount of B buttons should render Snake's dsmash nearly useless. Snake also generally doesn't like people too close to him, kinda like the Zelda match-up. Find the "pocket" between ranged and point blank and bait out on opening.

I don't know much about R.O.B. I think he's easily chaingrabbed, but don't quote me on that.
 

Hylian

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apparently in the charizard boards; people are throwing around ICs as a bad match up for zard...i don't see it
Ic's do well against Zard unless Zard platform camps with nair, and just abuses nair in general, and then it's hopeless for IC's. IC's would do well against most zards though as few people play that way.
 
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