Ice Climbers MU Discussion

[KingDozie]

MATCHUPS


FOX

Pros:

-Fast Charc with fast attacks

-Amazing K.O. power

-Great combo ability and damage output

-Amazing aerials

-SHINE/SHINE combos!!!

-Good grab option

Cons:

-High falling speed(Ice climbers can just Cg fox or combo/juggle him).

-Poor recovery unless he mixups his recovery.

NEUTRAL GAME

-Approaching

Fox: Fox can easily approach you so you have to be on your toes. Fox have shine combos to easily separate the ice climbers(Try not to get shine around the ledge it could lead to a shine spike). He will most likely SHFFL aerials to get you. I have never played a fox that would just laser camp ice climbers so you dont have to worry about that. Fox can't really grab you because there's two of them just throw out a Dsmash. The way that fox kills you is from a shine spike or a Up Smash so watch out for those.

Ice Climbers: You have to approach fox with Dash attack mostly when hes SHL a lot. Side tilt work well to give you some distance space. Always Ices jabs are really fast so just you that instead of spamming smash attacks because you will get punish for it. Make sure you CC alot because its better than getting shield pressure from Fox.

-Defensive

Fox:Fox doesn't really play defensive unless he laser camps, Most fox players are aggro. If he tries to do that keep doing desync blizzard--ice blocks and push him to lead for a edgeguard.

Ice climbers: In this matchup you have to be defensive because if you attack fox without a good plan you will get punished hard. You want to using a lot of Desync blizzards-ice blocks, If he tries to FJ over them just Upair(leads to juggles med-high%) or when hes coming down from a FJ aerial punish the lag by Up Tilting(Leads to juggles low%). Make sure you can OOS wavedash because Fox can hit you with ease when spamming rolling or spot dodging.

-Platforms

Fox: He does have some options when hes below you Up Air juggles,Bair, and Nair. Most Fox will go for Upair, Just wavedash off the platforms ice climbers.

Ice climbers: Now when fox is on platforms just Upair spam underneath it. You can also fair him for a techase and that could lead to a CG or Bair kill. Uptilt works it depends of the height on the platforms.

-Edgeguarding

Ice climbers:Fox is pretty easy if you do it correctly sometimes it lame when fox Up B goes through like everything lol. When fox is recovering high hes most likely going for up b and good player will try to sweetspot it so just Down b or CC Dsmash. When you're on the ledge edgehogging just ledge drop then bair him or just Dair to make him recovery low. When fox goes for a side b just jab him or nair. When hes below the stage he only have one option up b, make sure you spam ice blocks lol or down b then go grab the ledge.

-Recovering

Ice climbers: Make sure you recovery low with your Up b or Side b is better if you are synch(Up Air to regain synch). Its also better to air dodge to the stage or to throw a ice block to stop your opponent from attack you in the air.

Ice climbers Stages:

Starters

-Final Destination

-Battlefield

-Fountain of Dreams

-Dreamland (64)

Counterpicks

-Lylat Cruise

-Skyworld

 

[KingDozie]

Can someone help me with the lucas matchup

 

[xFumbles]

I've fought a couple Lucas, and I say Lucas has about a 30(IC):70(Lu) on them. Most of his attacks are very good at splitting the climbers, and his strong attacks are hard to avoid with both climbers, and if they hit shield he gets away for free. He can't be F-throw handoffed either. His ice is very good for approaching us, and powershielding is even harder with ICs than most characters. With his bair and dair, he is one of the only characters who can really edgegaurd the duo.
This is just my opinion. IC's are a strong character, so Im sure they have some good mixups on him.

 

[KingDozie]

I've fought a couple Lucas, and I say Lucas has about a 35(IC):75(Lu) on them. Most of his attacks are very good at splitting the climbers, and his strong attacks are hard to avoid with both climbers, and if they hit shield he gets away for free. He can't be F-throw handoffed either. His ice is very good for approaching us, and powershielding is even harder with ICs than most characters. With his bair and dair, he is one of the only characters who can really edgegaurd the duo.
This is just my opinion. IC's are a strong character, so Im sure they have some good mixups on him.

Cant you just Desynch blizzards to get around his side b and also try to cc his side b. You should play this mu as a spacie mu because lucas is basically a spacie. Use jabs,Uptilt,Upair, and Dash attack and for combos just dthrow to fair and for combo finisher just dthrow to fsmash.

 

[xFumbles]

I don't know is blizzard goes through ice bolts or not. I'm also unsure how susceptible to CCing Lucas is. Never mained IC's in Melee, so I'm new to even those match-ups not backing out on my post or anything, I still think its hard for them, just as it's hard vs spacies.

 

[KingDozie]

Dont main them in melee either i use falco and i have fought good lucas but didnt use ice climbers lol.

 

[Foxy K]

99% sure PK Freezes go through Blizzard.

 

[KingDozie]

99% sure PK Freezes go through Blizzard.

Well then were screwed. I usually just throw out a shorthop ice blocks anyway.

 

[Foxy K]

Probably the best defense against the freezes. I would think they'd go the farthest against shutting down his super fast nair shffling and what not too.

 

[Deleted member]

99% sure PK Freezes go through Blizzard.

They do. I think Blizzard as a semi defensive/damage-building move needs to have more priority seeing as you can't really spam it but you can spam Freezes aggressively.

 

[KingDozie]

What about roy vs ice climbers it feels like a horrible mu. Fire vs ice:-(

 

[Deleted member]

What about roy vs ice climbers it feels like a horrible mu. Fire vs ice:-(

Icies have chains on him and he's not hard at all to edge guard.
Roy is a king with onstage edge guards too though, so most of the time if you find yourself offstage and can't sweetspot with Belay or choose to use Squall at least one (if not both) of your climbers are going to die if the Roy player is on point.

 

[KingDozie]

Icies have chains on him and he's not hard at all to edge guard.
Roy is a king with onstage edge guards too though, so most of the time if you find yourself offstage and can't sweetspot with Belay or choose to use Squall at least one (if not both) of your climbers are going to die if the Roy player is on point.

I would rather fight a marth than roy thats saying something. You really have to bait him out if blizzards and Chain grab combos or techchase him to death. When hes doing dtilt just Fair, Also Uptilt and Upair to juggle him for days. When edgeguard roy i like to throw a ice block when hes recovering low becuase that interferes with him sweetspoting the ledge then you can just Dsmash or Fsmash. You can also edgehog the ledge then punish hes up b lag if he lands on the stage.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

What is the MU for Bowser, I say clear advantage to ICs. I'm making a chart and I just want to be sure.

 

[Darkshooter]

What would the MU say for Snake vs ICs?

 

[DarkStarStorm]

What would the MU say for Snake vs ICs?

I dunno? I'm asking about Bowser not Snake.

 

[Darkshooter]

Oh. My bad Dark. Still, I'm curious to hear about the Bowser matchup!

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Oh. My bad Dark. Still, I'm curious to hear about the Bowser matchup!

Were you asking about the Snake MU or making a point about the MU being the same? I'm confused. What do you think of the Boozer MU?

 

[Darkshooter]

Were you asking about the Snake MU or making a point about the MU being the same? I'm confused. What do you think of the Boozer MU?

No, I was wondering about the Snake Matchup. I imagine it would be the same as the Ganondorf matchup but even worse, but I wanted a second opinion just to be sure.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

No, I was wondering about the Snake Matchup. I imagine it would be the same as the Ganondorf matchup but even worse, but I wanted a second opinion just to be sure.

What's the Ganon MU?

 

[Darkshooter]

What's the Ganon MU?

Going by Melee's matchup, it's 50:50 (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Going by Melee's matchup, it's 50:50 (correct me if I'm wrong).

Really?!

 

[Darkshooter]

Really?!

Yeah, check here: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Ice_Climbers_(SSBM)#Matchups

 

[KingDozie]

Ice Climbers vs. Bowser Mu, The Ice Climbers really need to zone out Bowser with Desynch/Synch Bilzzards or Ice blcok.(Use Bilzzards more because bowser can just Fair through them) You can use Side B SYNCH but you get the risk of being hit by bowser and thats bad. You can also Use Juggle moves like Uptilt or Upair. Also, I really like Bair spacing against Bowser but if bowser get in the ices are screwd so you really need to space against bowser. For bowser Its more a get in match so you haver to Fair or Side B. Lol anything with armor will work well against Ices. This is all opinion wise though.

 

[KingDozie]

Going by Melee's matchup, it's 50:50 (correct me if I'm wrong).

Ice Climbers vs Ganon, You should really zone out ganon with the same style i useed against Bowser. You want to keep ganon above you with Upair,Uptilt,and Dash attack. Also you dont want to be above ganon because of Upair and Uptilts. Also, Killing Ganon with gimps is really important because it takes forever to kill ganon. I will advise using Ice block if hes recovery low becasue he can Sweetspot then punish with a Dsmash maybe even Dowb can work.

 

[KingDozie]

What would the MU say for Snake vs ICs?

I really dont know but Snake can really seprarte the Ice climbers well.

 

[Darkshooter]

Many thanks for the advice Doozie!

 

[KingDozie]

Many thanks for the advice Doozie!

Your welcome

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Ice Climbers vs. Bowser Mu, The Ice Climbers really need to zone out Bowser with Desynch/Synch Bilzzards or Ice blcok.(Use Bilzzards more because bowser can just Fair through them) You can use Side B SYNCH but you get the risk of being hit by bowser and thats bad. You can also Use Juggle moves like Uptilt or Upair. Also, I really like Bair spacing against Bowser but if bowser get in the ices are screwd so you really need to space against bowser. For bowser Its more a get in match so you haver to Fair or Side B. Lol anything with armor will work well against Ices. This is all opinion wise though.

How about Falcon? I'm making a MU chart, and I'm on the Captain at the moment.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

How about Falcon? I'm making a MU chart, and I'm on the Captain at the moment.

Could you IC mains please help me with Falcon?

 

[Deleted member]

Could you IC mains please help me with Falcon?

Just don't get hit and be super campy. His evasiveness will beat IC's.

 

[Foxy K]

Yeah Falcon doesn't seem like he would have much to deal with careful walling with a lots of blizzards.

I went to a tourney yesterday and got completely blown up by a charizard and a peach before I could get anywhere. Charizard's nair reaches through blizzard and Peach's shffls->dsmash destroyed me as well. I figure I could try to wavedash oos backward to deal with Peach's dsmash but I'm unsure about Charizard.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah Falcon doesn't seem like he would have much to deal with careful walling with a lots of blizzards.

Blizzard leaves you very venerable and it should be used as least as possible.
I use it most of the times only for some grab set ups.

 

[Foxy K]

Blizzard leaves you very venerable and it should be used as least as possible.
I use it most of the times only for some grab set ups.

Specific to the matchup or in general?

 

[Deleted member]

Specific to the matchup or in general?

In general.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

In general.

So would the MU be the same as it was in Melee? Or has it changed because the ICs have lost Wobbling (Grrrrrrrr) and chaingrab infinites (GRRRRR).

 

[Deleted member]

So would the MU be the same as it was in Melee? Or has it changed because the ICs have lost Wobbling (Grrrrrrrr) and chaingrab infinites (GRRRRR).

More or less yes because all of their match ups aren't based on Wobbling alone and 99% of their moves in Project: M have the same frame data as they did in Melee.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

More or less yes because all of their match ups aren't based on Wobbling alone and 99% of their moves in Project: M have the same frame data as they did in Melee.

So their moves haven't changed but their desyncs have? Okay that makes sense.

 

[Deleted member]

So their moves haven't changed but their desyncs did? Okay that makes sense.

Pretty much. I checked the frame data in BrawlBox a while ago and their Melee frame data matches up almost one-for-one. I'm going to eventually make a thread for them with pretty GIFs and all, but I haven't found the time with work and stuff always annoying me.

Edit/PS: In some of your videos you are pronouncing Deku wrong. It's pronounced 'Deh-Koo'

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Pretty much. I checked the frame data in BrawlBox a while ago and their Melee frame data matches up almost one-for-one. I'm going to eventually make a thread for them with pretty GIFs and all, but I haven't found the time with work and stuff always annoying me.

Edit/PS: In some of your videos you are pronouncing Deku wrong. It's pronounced 'Deh-Koo'

Yeah I know it's wrong, but when I was little I pronounced it that way and, sigh, I want to keep some of my childhood's mistakes. Does that make sense, I don't think that I explained that well. I guess I don't want to lose that mispronunciation because it would mean that I'm turning my back on me before I took up the Master Sword seven years ago. I'll try pronouncing them both ways to be more accurate. You watched my videos? Sweet!