I would prepare yourself for the worst, especially with Chrom...

[LancerStaff]

Roy... Is not the most successful character in 4. To put it bluntly I believe he’s the least successful out of any character that wouldn’t be considered an echo today. He could get buffs but Ultimate is looking highly conservative overall. Really though, the topic is about Chrom.

Chrom admittedly doesn’t have the problem of his tipper doing crap for damage, but then there’s the problem of having to use Smashes for kills. Lucina has her infamous f10 Fsmash of doom. Roy’s is much slower, and considering the size I don’t see Chrom’s being anything nearly as powerful either. Yeah he could just straight up get Lucina’s Fsmash but considering that’s her single most valuable move I don’t think they’d just slap it on Chrom. His other moves don’t seem to have spectacular knockback either, namely Ftilt which I believe is a fairly common way for Roy to close stocks.

Chrom... Also has Aether. It’s just a bad move. One of the worst Uspecials in the game. Damage is bad, it’s slow, it doesn’t kill, hitboxes are bizarre at best, and as far as actually recovering it’s terrible. Ike manages with Aether because of Quick Draw. Chrom? He’s got nothing. His side B doesn’t do anything for recovery. His double jump is still one of the worst in the game. His air acceleration is likely still bad. I can honestly say with no hyperbole that it’s worse than Little Mac’s recovery.

Even if he racks up damage like crazy, he doesn’t have good kill moves and his recovery is dismal.

Please, I mean no harm or disrespect. I just... Well, I want people to keep their expectations in check.

Shaya
I’m wondering what you think... I don’t believe I’ve missed anything.

 

[Nekoo]

Well, I think i'll start by saying that...You know that for most of the people we are just happy for the character to make it in? Even as an Echo than thinking about his competitive future with like 30 seconds of gameplay.
Not saying that you're wrong, but as of now, it's WAAAAAY too early to talk about these things. We don't know how his moves works, how Aether exactly work. For all we know, it could be angled like that weird Ike custom move. It's probably not the case since they would have showed it in the trailer but who knows.

Also, while Roy's F-smash was slow, you forget that it's actually longer than Marth's...Imagine if Chrom Manage to have a safe on Shield F-smash while also not having the drawback of sourspotting it everytime?

Maybe you're right. He will miserably fail in the competitive scene, but honestly, Roy's our boy and Chrom's our Man, so we ain't going to drop him like that or be sad. After all, like he himself said..."Anything can change!"

 

[LancerStaff]

It’s... Really not. With how conservative Echos are as a whole (with the other new ones not even being apparent what the differences are) we know he’s going to be very much like Roy. We know that much of the game is the same, and as far as differences go they’re not exactly positive for these two.

Aether seems to be something of a balancing point against Roy. Chrom deals more damage, but Roy, well, gets a recovery. Aether has quite a bit more height than Blazer already, giving it significant angling capabilities would pretty much invalidate Roy completely.

Echos seem to have very random and honestly poor balancing decisions behind them, like Dark Pit who was literally just Pit but worse until the buffs instead made his side B slightly more than a side-grade. Chrom is following suit. At minimum I don’t think they’d intentionally make an Echo noticeably better than the original.

Considering the apparent removal of shieldstun I don’t think his Fsmash will amount to much. Roy’s is relatively consistent already, with three separate hitboxes. Crazy strong at the very base, average in the middle, plastic spork on the tip. Chrom will probably just use the middle... Certainly nothing crazy enough to make up for the joke of a recovery. None of Roy’s other moves would translate to anything super good like Marth’s Fsmash to Lucina’s.

Chrom is... Honestly detrimental to Roy as a character. Roy would probably be better off with more mild hitboxes, or maybe just better frame data to make up for the tip damage being awful. With Chrom as an Echo they can’t do either. Balancing Roy’s blade would invalidate Chrom, and improving Roy’s frame data and not Chrom’s (which would obviously become problematic if it was) is something never done with an Echo and base character.

As somebody who’s very iffy on the balance in general I can’t help but expect the worst for these two.

 

[Oblivion129]

They may not change frame data but they can change damage and hitboxes. Chrom having no sourspot means he'll probably have a better neutral than Roy by being able to space attacks more. On Roy's side, he might get more damage on sweetspots and/or bigger sweetspot so that he also can space safely.

Point is they can definitely buff both characters if they need to, like how they did in Smash 4 with Marth and Lucina.

 

[MarioMeteor]

We should probably wait until the character is actually playable before we start jumping to conclusions.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I find it weird that Chrom is labeled as an Echo of Roy but borrows Ike's Aether. This along with Dark Samus's floatyness is making Echoes look more like semi-clones than alternate characters.

 

[LancerStaff]

They may not change frame data but they can change damage and hitboxes. Chrom having no sourspot means he'll probably have a better neutral than Roy by being able to space attacks more. On Roy's side, he might get more damage on sweetspots and/or bigger sweetspot so that he also can space safely.

Point is they can definitely buff both characters if they need to, like how they did in Smash 4 with Marth and Lucina.

They can buff them yes. But they’ve also proven themselves utterly incompetent at balancing characters, and so far previously neglected characters have gotten a pittance. Roy was heavily neglected, and Chrom is in a category which is already showing signs of even further neglect. It’s like a triple dose of suckatude.

We should probably wait until the character is actually playable before we start jumping to conclusions.

People always say this... But Smash has always been pretty literal. Once you cut out the hype crap it’s not hard to see what things are like. Again, changes overall are very light for a new game, and release is approaching.

I find it weird that Chrom is labeled as an Echo of Roy but borrows Ike's Aether. This along with Dark Samus's floatyness is making Echoes look more like semi-clones than alternate characters.

Echos are less than clones. You can even take away their CSS spot, if you wish...

One move from a different character, one purely detrimental at that, doesn’t make him unique.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I see a problem in a character who's an Echo of someone who's supposed to be an Echo of Marth and doesn't have the stuff that set Roy apart from Marth. No fire attacks and no reverse-tipper. An Up-Special that's like Ike's except he doesn't throw his sword. And Chrom has a unique Final Smash while Roy still has Marth's Final Smash. Why does this Echo Fighter feel more unique than his source fighter?

 

[Vyrnx]

I'm thinking Roy will be a good character in Ultimate. Looking at the demo frame data, landing lags didn't just have a couple frames shaved off. Some were nearly halved. Marth's nair, for instance, has seven(!) frames of landing lag now. This is great for Roy since he has one of the best short hops in the game and can get his aerials out quickly. With landing lags reduced (especially on nair), he'll be able to land into opponents with aerials and follow into safe on shield ground moves like dtilt. Or space with safe on shield tippers in matchups where that's important, same as this game (and as an example, 9 damage on sourspot fair isn't exactly trivial--in fact the worst thing about his sourspots has in reality always been the sound effect).

The dash mechanics will work great with dash in dtilt. He has several moves that lead into tech chases in this game already. If you watched Hyper's Roy when he was active, he'd use extended dash dances to chase techs and potentially land an fsmash (he'd get some mad early kills on Fatality)--the fact that the dash mechanics will favor tech chase followups is really gonna help Roy out.

Basically his approach game is heavily buffed by these mechanics, and moreso than other characters because he has a legit fantastic ground move and a top tier short hop/air speed (on the other hand, my main, Samus, gains nothing from these new mechanics. Neither do many other characters).

I'm also guessing (and who can really know when the game isn't out) that Ultimate will move in a direction where movement is heavily favored over shielding--aerials are going to be strong in this game and movement was in general buffed--so in a game where movement is strong, easy low-commitment moves to cover different options will shine--lagless fh fair from Roy, sh nair, dtilt. DED will still catch a lot of stuff as well.

Anywho, I'm really excited to try out Chrom and see what a sweetspotless Roy looks like. That recovery, though... Is gonna be ass.

Edit: and aforementioned mechanics will help Marth as well. He could really be very dominant in this game.

 

[LancerStaff]

The problem is that anything that’s good for Roy is good for any other sword fighter... He just still doesn’t have a real edge.

Roy’s SH game is just Nair. Getting grabbed is not scary outside of minimal percents, and the 1v1 multiplier probably ruins some of these. Others have better grab games, can abuse range better, or can just get into a preferred position more effectively. Being a one trick pony doesn’t get you far unless that pony is oppressive as hell. With the lack of shieldstun it’s hard to say if it’ll still be anywhere as strong.

Roy might benefit from the dash changes the most. Might. Might not. It could also just be that other characters have tools that cover different options more effectively than any of Roy’s dash shenanigans.

I’m a bit more optimistic for Roy but it’s still just hard to imagine a reason to pick him over other characters. He’s showing no signs of massive buffs or changes, and even if he favors the global stuff the most he’s still got a loooong ways to go before he matters.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

LancerStaff , wWhat do you think Roy (and by extension, Chrom) should receive as buffs to actually pose more than "Stop holding yourself back by maining a bad character out of loyalty"? Or are both just busted by the core?

I kind of hope we'll be pleasantly surprised that Roy and Chrom might receive buffs later, but again, I can see good sum of points in your arguments.

 

[Fell God]

Well, I believe it's too early to judge Roy at this point. Who knows? Maybe he'll have decent kill moves for aerials now or something. Either way, Chrom drops Roy's most critical flaw in his inverse tipper mechanics. Lucina is worse than Marth because the tipper is a huge benefit to the character, logically speaking, Chrom should be better than Roy since the inverse tipper is a huge detriment. I could be wrong about this, but either way, I'm going to main him, and none of Roy's weaknesses are going to stop me.

 

[LancerStaff]

LancerStaff , wWhat do you think Roy (and by extension, Chrom) should receive as buffs to actually pose more than "Stop holding yourself back by maining a bad character out of loyalty"? Or are both just busted by the core?

I kind of hope we'll be pleasantly surprised that Roy and Chrom might receive buffs later, but again, I can see good sum of points in your arguments.

My ideal Smash would be radically different from what we have now... I don’t really know what I would do to fix him here. I’m not super happy with how Ultimate looks overall, design wise.

Whatever they think Roy is supposed to be is obviously very flawed, and they care more about executing this design than making him viable. At least, that’s what I think as more of a casual observer.

Well, I believe it's too early to judge Roy at this point. Who knows? Maybe he'll have decent kill moves for aerials now or something. Either way, Chrom drops Roy's most critical flaw in his inverse tipper mechanics. Lucina is worse than Marth because the tipper is a huge benefit to the character, logically speaking, Chrom should be better than Roy since the inverse tipper is a huge detriment. I could be wrong about this, but either way, I'm going to main him, and none of Roy's weaknesses are going to stop me.

I know this is framed as a warning, yet I sound fairly sure of myself... Well, I’m giving this warning because I’m fairly sure of myself. I wouldn’t say I’m always right but I also feel like this instance is pretty cut and dry.

Just short of very massively turning up their damage, which probably isn’t happening, I don’t think they’re going to be good based on what we’ve seen.

Chrom... Just doesn’t warrant such a flawed recovery. Even if he was all Roy’s hilt hits he might not even be good. And we all know that’s not happening.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Does Chrom have anything that was originally Roy's? Roy was a clone of Marth in Melee so he has a lot of Marth's moves. Chrom has Ike's Aether and Lucina's sword. Chrom doesn't have any fire moves and his sword is balanced like Lucina. He has a new Final Smash while Roy has Marth's Final Smash. What makes Chrom an Echo of Roy? He seems more like a hybrid of the whole Fire Emblem cast.

 

[Fell God]

Does Chrom have anything that was originally Roy's? Roy was a clone of Marth in Melee so he has a lot of Marth's moves. Chrom has Ike's Aether and Lucina's sword. Chrom doesn't have any fire moves and his sword is balanced like Lucina. He has a new Final Smash while Roy has Marth's Final Smash. What makes Chrom an Echo of Roy? He seems more like a hybrid of the whole Fire Emblem cast.

Roy's jab, side attack, up smash, standard special (which Marth no longer has) hard to say from there, we don't know everything yet.

 

[MarioMeteor]

People always say this...

Because it’s literally always true. It is entirely too early to start being pessimistic about a game that doesn’t release for months.

But Smash has always been pretty literal. Once you cut out the hype crap it’s not hard to see what things are like. Again, changes overall are very light for a new game, and release is approaching.

Exactly. “Approaching.” As in, not here yet. As in, you haven’t played the game or seen everything it has to offer, so maybe wait till you have done one of those things before you start making assumptions.

 

[Blargg888]

LancerStaff
Honestly, I agree with everybody saying it's a bit too early to decide this.

All we have is a little bit of footage, so we don't really know the extent of what Chrom and Roy can do in Smash Ultimate. However, you're acting as if Chrom's fate is already sealed as far as competitive play goes.

You said the same thing about Cloud back when he was revealed, but he ended up being top tier in the end. Now, understandably, that was a brand new character, so it's a little different. However, Chrom still has some attributes to him that need to be looked into further, despite the fact that he's an Echo Fighter.

For one, his Aether startup is different from Ike's. His F-Tilt also appears to be different from Roy's. His neutral B will need to be examined to see what makes it different from Roy's aside from having no fire. There is still much that remains to be seen, so it's better to be patient about these things than to jump to conclusions. We'll know everything once the game actually comes out.

 

[LancerStaff]

No, now is exactly the time to voice our concerns. Now is exactly the time to make a big deal about it and change the opinion of the character.

There’s no assumptions. Roy + even worse Uspecial = total garbage without some incredibly crazy stuff backing him up.

And no, I didn’t say Cloud was going to be irredeemable garbage before he released. Maybe I memed about it a bit because basically every other sword fighter was awful on release, and I remember being a bit more pessimistic but that’s because people were treating him as undisputed top tier from a trailer. But I don’t recall any sort of reason to think he was going to be bad, and especially not this bad.

We’ve seen more legitimate footage of Chrom, and we’ve had snippets of Roy sprinkled throughout too. There’s nothing impressive. Buffing some bad specials won’t fix Chrom. A slightly different Ftilt won’t make up for dying to basically anything. Aether already goes higher than Blazer, it’s not going to get any real horizontal aspect to it without some intervention. Looking at the ****ty balance ideas they’ve had throughout the years, they most likely think this is perfectly fine.

 

[MarioMeteor]

No, now is exactly the time to voice our concerns. Now is exactly the time to make a big deal about it and change the opinion of the character.

You’re absolutely right, it’s the perfect time to voice our concerns about something that we have next to no knowledge of whatsoever, in hopes that we can change an opinion that doesn’t even exist yet!

 

[T-Donor66]

Can you PLEASE stop implying that this game is gonna be identical to Smash 4? You are acting as if nothing gameplay wise is going to change with comments such as “extremely light on changes” when in fact Ultimate has wayyy faster gameplay, dash cancelling, shield mechanics that reward offensive and aggressive gameplay, the return of directional airdodging, shorthop wavedashes, parrys, etc?

Do I need to go on? You have NO idea how these changes with effect Roy, and subsequently, Chrom.

You make it sound as if the reverse tipper was the only thing that made Roy bad, but you ignore his bad frame data, horrendous approach and poor combo ability. Do you know if any of these have been fixed? No. Do you know how dash cancelling with affect his approach game? No. Please stop with the these generalizations about how Ultimate will play and how characters will be affected.

 

[LancerStaff]

You’re absolutely right, it’s the perfect time to voice our concerns about something that we have next to no knowledge of whatsoever, in hopes that we can change an opinion that doesn’t even exist yet!

You act like people shouldn’t be complaining at all... They are. Too late for that.

Can you PLEASE stop implying that this game is gonna be identical to Smash 4? You are acting as if nothing gameplay wise is going to change with comments such as “extremely light on changes” when in fact Ultimate has wayyy faster gameplay, dash cancelling, shield mechanics that reward offensive and aggressive gameplay, the return of directional airdodging, shorthop wavedashes, parrys, etc?

Do I need to go on? You have NO idea how these changes with effect Roy, and subsequently, Chrom.

You make it sound as if the reverse tipper was the only thing that made Roy bad, but you ignore his bad frame data, horrendous approach and poor combo ability. Do you know if any of these have been fixed? No. Do you know how dash cancelling with affect his approach game? No. Please stop with the these generalizations about how Ultimate will play and how characters will be affected.

The people that have played the game describe it as Smash 4 but faster. I mean, besides the usual suspects... The characters largely feel like a simple balance patch or two. The mechanics are a mixed bad in general. It might not even be truly faster, just more “literal genie” from Sakurai.

I have a pretty decent idea...

No, I’m quite aware of his flaws. His pathetic tippers overall are the most relevant in the discussion of Chrom. It seems apparent that they haven’t done much of anything to rectify these flaws from what we’ve seen. Fancy dash tech for a character with... I wouldn’t say “no ground game” but a very lackluster one won’t help much. Aerials have less landing lag and the like but SH aerials have a damage penalty, and SH aerials are basically all he has. He’s still going to flounder around in neutral... He might be better if he gets in but that also means everybody will hit him harder for getting in.

I see zero scenarios in which Chrom is good. If you don’t find that concerning, well, I’ll spare no sympathy for you on release. To be honest I’ve given up on any hope this game will have any semblance of balance anyway.

This is, and I repeat, a warning. I’m not here to argue if it might come true or not.

 

[DraginHikari]

No, now is exactly the time to voice our concerns. Now is exactly the time to make a big deal about it and change the opinion of the character.

There’s no assumptions. Roy + even worse Uspecial = total garbage without some incredibly crazy stuff backing him up.

And no, I didn’t say Cloud was going to be irredeemable garbage before he released. Maybe I memed about it a bit because basically every other sword fighter was awful on release, and I remember being a bit more pessimistic but that’s because people were treating him as undisputed top tier from a trailer. But I don’t recall any sort of reason to think he was going to be bad, and especially not this bad.

We’ve seen more legitimate footage of Chrom, and we’ve had snippets of Roy sprinkled throughout too. There’s nothing impressive. Buffing some bad specials won’t fix Chrom. A slightly different Ftilt won’t make up for dying to basically anything. Aether already goes higher than Blazer, it’s not going to get any real horizontal aspect to it without some intervention. Looking at the ****ty balance ideas they’ve had throughout the years, they most likely think this is perfectly fine.

As if Smashboards character forums has any actual sway over such matters. I seriously doubt Nintendo is getting feedback on character balancing from random forum posts of all things. The balance would be an even bigger mess if they did so.

 

[ProjectAngel]

How bout we actually wait for the game to come out and stop judging the character based on past merits? Seems like a good idea.

 

[LancerStaff]

Smashboards is the closest thing to a hub for information on characters... Which is to say that a little bit of discussion here, even if the site is going the way of the dodo, would carry a long ways. It’s probably the most important place where what you say would stick.

Sakurai has said in the past he listens to feedback online. So yes, he does listen to random forum posts. It’s the only real way to get feedback, really.

 

[DraginHikari]

Smashboards is the closest thing to a hub for information on characters... Which is to say that a little bit of discussion here, even if the site is going the way of the dodo, would carry a long ways. It’s probably the most important place where what you say would stick.

Sakurai has said in the past he listens to feedback online. So yes, he does listen to random forum posts. It’s the only real way to get feedback, really.

I think your overstating Smashboard's importance and the scope that Sakurai can take that feedback into account, generally when companies gather feedback online they gather it from very specific sources and in very specific ways. Simply scanning random threads is not something most companies would even waste resources doing and I'd doubt that Nintendo is doing so in that manner.

 

[T-Donor66]

You act like people shouldn’t be complaining at all... They are. Too late for that.



The people that have played the game describe it as Smash 4 but faster. I mean, besides the usual suspects... The characters largely feel like a simple balance patch or two. The mechanics are a mixed bad in general. It might not even be truly faster, just more “literal genie” from Sakurai.

I have a pretty decent idea...

No, I’m quite aware of his flaws. His pathetic tippers overall are the most relevant in the discussion of Chrom. It seems apparent that they haven’t done much of anything to rectify these flaws from what we’ve seen. Fancy dash tech for a character with... I wouldn’t say “no ground game” but a very lackluster one won’t help much. Aerials have less landing lag and the like but SH aerials have a damage penalty, and SH aerials are basically all he has. He’s still going to flounder around in neutral... He might be better if he gets in but that also means everybody will hit him harder for getting in.

I see zero scenarios in which Chrom is good. If you don’t find that concerning, well, I’ll spare no sympathy for you on release. To be honest I’ve given up on any hope this game will have any semblance of balance anyway.

This is, and I repeat, a warning. I’m not here to argue if it might come true or not.

Alright, you are just lying to fit your narrative at this point. Almost EVERY competitive Smash player who has played the game (unlike you) is saying that the game is vastly different to Smash 4. You saying that the game is “Smash 4 but faster” implys that it is a game that still encourages campy defensive play, but is slightly faster. This is simply false.

So, who should I listen to? You, a random guy on an internet forum who is making generalizations about a game they haven’t played? Or Zero and Esam, two players who have 10’s of thousands of hours of Smash 4 and who have actually PLAYED Ultimate and described how the new game plays.

Also, you are extremely negative and a contrarian for the sake of contrarianism. “The game might not even truly be faster”. Yeah?? Are we watching gameplay of the same game? Is everyone who tried the game lying? You are just trying to kill people’s excitement with LIES at this point. If you want to kill your excitement and be miserable, go ahead, but you are NOT taking us down with you.

 

[KingPinGamez]

can someone clarify for me why Chrom upB must be worse than Roy's?

we havn't seen it whiff yet. What if the upward slash is just the same as Roy's up.B, but on hit (or on point blank hit) turns into Aether?


I think people are jumping to conclusions too fast. Unless things are confirmed they are shrodinger's cats.......

 

[MarioMeteor]

You act like people shouldn’t be complaining at all... They are. Too late for that.

About Chrom? I’m pretty sure you’re the only person complaining about a character who we’ve seen in-game for maybe two minutes. I sure hope so, at least.

 

[LancerStaff]

I think your overstating Smashboard's importance and the scope that Sakurai can take that feedback into account, generally when companies gather feedback online they gather it from very specific sources and in very specific ways. Simply scanning random threads is not something most companies would even waste resources doing and I'd doubt that Nintendo is doing so in that manner.

Googling basically anything involving data (tiers, techniques) either takes you directly to Smashboards or takes you to places like the wiki or another forum like GFAQs which in turn link/mention Smashboards.

Alright, you are just lying to fit your narrative at this point. Almost EVERY competitive Smash player who has played the game (unlike you) is saying that the game is vastly different to Smash 4. You saying that the game is “Smash 4 but faster” implys that it is a game that still encourages campy defensive play, but is slightly faster. This is simply false.

So, who should I listen to? You, a random guy on an internet forum who is making generalizations about a game they haven’t played? Or Zero and Esam, two players who have 10’s of thousands of hours of Smash 4 and who have actually PLAYED Ultimate and described how the new game plays.

Also, you are extremely negative and a contrarian for the sake of contrarianism. “The game might not even truly be faster”. Yeah?? Are we watching gameplay of the same game? Is everyone who tried the game lying? You are just trying to kill people’s excitement with LIES at this point. If you want to kill your excitement and be miserable, go ahead, but you are NOT taking us down with you.

Having one frame of shieldstun max and reducing jumpsquats to three frames means that basically everything is going to be punishable on shield. Nobody playing the game has played it trying to abuse this. The potential for literally all the gameplay we’ve had to be completely irrelevant and crumble to dust is very high. Dodges are also generally much stronger overall before staling, back rolls aside.

I’m sorry for just being realistic... People are going to be incredibly pessimistic on release, like literally every Smash game. The cracks are already showing.

About Chrom? I’m pretty sure you’re the only person complaining about a character who we’ve seen in-game for maybe two minutes. I sure hope so, at least.

Definitely not. Not even an hour after the reveal I saw people complaining about how awful he sounds on paper. It didn’t occur to me either until I saw the post... By now I’m sure there’s a petition to remove Chrom’s Aether.

can someone clarify for me why Chrom upB must be worse than Roy's?

we havn't seen it whiff yet. What if the upward slash is just the same as Roy's up.B, but on hit (or on point blank hit) turns into Aether?


I think people are jumping to conclusions too fast. Unless things are confirmed they are shrodinger's cats.......

He’s whiffed it more than he’s hit with it... We’ve also seen literally every other move he has.

 

[Erimir]

I'm pretty sure that they won't be rebalancing Chrom based on someone complaining that Aether is worse than Blazer without knowing the full extent of what other differences there are nor how Roy has been updated. Even if they are checking this forum, right now, they will probably conclude that you don't know what you're talking about. Because you don't. Or at least, you don't know the full story. Certainly it's not "important" to complain right now.

And at any rate, they can patch the game after the fact. It's pretty much guaranteed that they will have balance patches. When the game releases, if Chrom is absolute trash, complain away and they may buff him in response.

 

[DraginHikari]

Googling basically anything involving data (tiers, techniques) either takes you directly to Smashboards or takes you to places like the wiki or another forum like GFAQs which in turn link/mention Smashboards.

You think as a result of that Sakurai or Nintendo is looking into every thread that takes place on this board? I envy your optimism about Smashboard influnce. In my experience with deal with large companies and their various social media handlings that generally does not happen. They may at best investigate keywords and reflect on data after major events and things of that nature but I can tell you a thread like this would likely be overlooked in such a scenario as it is at best speculation based on video footage of potentially incomplete and unreleased content.

 

[T-Donor66]

Googling basically anything involving data (tiers, techniques) either takes you directly to Smashboards or takes you to places like the wiki or another forum like GFAQs which in turn link/mention Smashboards.



Having one frame of shieldstun max and reducing jumpsquats to three frames means that basically everything is going to be punishable on shield. Nobody playing the game has played it trying to abuse this. The potential for literally all the gameplay we’ve had to be completely irrelevant and crumble to dust is very high. Dodges are also generally much stronger overall before staling, back rolls aside.

I’m sorry for just being realistic... People are going to be incredibly pessimistic on release, like literally every Smash game. The cracks are already showing.



Definitely not. Not even an hour after the reveal I saw people complaining about how awful he sounds on paper. It didn’t occur to me either until I saw the post... By now I’m sure there’s a petition to remove Chrom’s Aether.



He’s whiffed it more than he’s hit with it... We’ve also seen literally every other move he has.

I love how you keep implying that there is a huge sect of people rioting out the "flaws of the game", meanwhile I've seen nothing but genuine excitement and praise for how much better this game looks competitively. But hey, if creating an imaginary group of people that agree with you makes you feel less pathetic, go ahead, but stop shoving this garbage down our throats like its fact.

 

[NWRL]

OP is completely out of touch with reality. Changes to jumpsquat and dashing are massive and have lots of implications across the cast. Being able to run and cancel into Dtilt is gonna be a big deal for Roy, Marth, and Chrom, we also have seen next to no footage for Roy or Chrom, I don't see how anyone can believe they have an informed opinion about their balance when you have next to no data to pull from. The systems changes benefit disjoints quite a bit, especially when it comes to catching landings and general ground game, if you're gonna downplay that, your opinion belongs in the trash because you have absolutely no ****ing clue what you're talking about.

 

[T-Donor66]

OP is completely out of touch with reality. Changes to jumpsquat and dashing are massive and have lots of implications across the cast. Being able to run and cancel into Dtilt is gonna be a big deal for Roy, Marth, and Chrom, we also have seen next to no footage for Roy or Chrom, I don't see how anyone can believe they have an informed opinion about their balance when you have next to no data to pull from. The systems changes benefit disjoints quite a bit, especially when it comes to catching landings and general ground game, if you're gonna downplay that, your opinion belongs in the trash because you have absolutely no ****ing clue what you're talking about.

100% agree. OP ruined his excitement for the game by being a complete pessimist and assuming the worst despite a lack of data or evidence to back up said pessimism.

His chronic pessimism even lead him to come to a variety of backwards conclusions, as can be seen by comments such as “jumpsquat changes means that everything can be punished on shield” and “the game might actually be slower”.

His goal is to kill our excitement by imposing this backwards mentality on us, but I, and I hope many others see through his bs and stay rational and excited for the game’s future.

 

[FE_SLaDe]

Feel the need to speak up as a Smash 4 Roy main, I touched on this briefly in the Anything Can Change Thread, but it's not Roy's sour-spots that hold him back. In fact, Chrom is actually going to be missing a few things that help Roy thanks to sour-spots in the context of Smash 4.

Roy's Sour Jab and Sour Down-Tilt force tech situations at medium to high percents. Jab in particular is one of Roy's go to kill-confirms because if the opponent doesn't tech (or an un-techable spin occurs) then Dash Attack is guaranteed. This also works in the context of a sweet-spotted Jab because it can confirm into Blazer depending on opponent DI.

Chrom in theory won't have a ridiculous F-Smash that will kill at 50% but the balance to that is a fully spaced F-smash with Chrom will probably be safe on block and even easier to set up and that's not even going into the universal jump-squat changes, added movement, the ability to act out of dashes (Dash Cancelled Jabs and Down Tilts are gonna be so OD), and the 1v1 percentage changes.

Overall, there's no point in being doom and gloom before the game even comes out. I've already come up with quite a few theories for Chrom that I could only dream that Roy could do in Smash 4 and you all should look forward to catching these hands when the game comes out!

 

[GunBlaze]

Roy has Marth's Final Smash

WUT.

 

[meleebrawler]

According to him Ridley is lighter than Mario as well, so I guess everyone who said he was "heavy but not as much as other superheavies" are liars too.

 

[Shaya]

I'm pretty excited for Roy in this game, and a persistent blade Roy aka Chrom could be kinda interesting, but it'll be difficult to balance them similarly - if Roy only had sweetspots in S4 with slightly less KO power he would be a better character (imo) as the only good tipper he has is back air (and maybe dtilt or nair). So Roy's gonna need love.

Having aether is a shame for his chances overall but I'm going to say its a wait and see.

Roy's amazing in Smash4 though, just not enough time left in the game / a high enough level player for him to be seen at his best.


I think most of the FE cast is going to be potent this time around, dash to any attacking option enhances their capabilities a lot.
Also while Lucina/Marth's fsmash are faster start up technically, it's from behind their heads and the frame at which they reach horizontally in front of them is the same (or 1 frame slower for Roy) IIRC.
So if for whatever reason Chrom has stronger than Lucina fsmsash, or heck, even the same, persistence is gonna be a strong tool to have.
I'm not sure if Chrom's getting the same mobility specs as Roy would; but assuming he does then he's also able to dash faster than Lucina/etc into something that you'll generally be spacing horizontally for it to be a negligible nitpick.

Thinking about all this, I could very well see Chrom being a stronger character at first and then maybe we'll get to see the balance team actually putting some PATCH oomph into the 'original' rather than the other way around for Marth/Lucina in s4. And thus, top tier Roy in July 2019!!!
LETS GO.

 

[S_B]

They can buff them yes. But they’ve also proven themselves utterly incompetent at balancing characters

New game, new rules, and most importantly, a new goal: esports.

This roster is insanely ambitious, it's true, but Nintendo has more of a reason to make it as balanced as possible than they literally ever have.

Yeah, SSB4 balance fell short in many places, but this is the first time Nintendo is actually planning to make MONEY from the roster being as balanced as possible, and Nintendo's love for money has some crazy stories behind it (like literally hunting down software pirates in other countries...).

 

[Fell God]

I think everyone's downplaying Chrom's up special, sort of. It's not like Blazer is a good move by any stretch of the imagination. However, Chrom's recovery is still what I'm most worried about nonetheless, since he will be dead meat offstage if he inherits Roy's abysmal midair jump height (lower than most multi jumpers). As long he can avoid that (and also not fall as fast) I'm confident in him being at least decent.