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I Won an Argument on Miiverse about Bringing Back L-cancel and Wavedashing and I was Reported

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elatedshyguy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
57
On Miiverse I argued that L-cancelling and Wavedashing should make a comeback because they allowed Hardcore players to enjoy Smash and casual players to enjoy it as well. Because L-cancelling was an optional way to speed up the otherwise slow game and wavedashing not only sped up the game it also complemented mind games. And another user, kept arguing with me and failing, saying that these skills were hard to learn and wouldn't allow casual players to enter tournaments. I said that he was "silly" for arguing this because casual players wouldn't go to a tournament were you will only find hardcore, trained players in the first place. Then he argued that Sakurai wants to shrink the skill gap by removing skills except for things like spacing and mind games. I said that L-cancelling and wavedashing become a matter of muscle memory after initial practice and that spacing and mind games are skills that constantly have to be practiced which in my opinion is much more difficult. Then I got reported. Miiverse is supposed to be a connection between the communities and the developers yet every time one speaks of game mechanics they seem to get reported. I say this because I have seen other people complain about the same thing which is ridiculous. Anyone else had these instances? If so post them here.
 

DraginHikari

Emerald Star Legacy
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Miiverse is generally not a good place to try to argue those points as it seems to take very little for people to get offended and start reporting people.
 

Zonderion

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On Miiverse I argued that L-cancelling and Wavedashing should make a comeback because they allowed Hardcore players to enjoy Smash and casual players to enjoy it as well. Because L-cancelling was an optional way to speed up the otherwise slow game and wavedashing not only sped up the game it also complemented mind games. And another user, kept arguing with me and failing, saying that these skills were hard to learn and wouldn't allow casual players to enter tournaments. I said that he was "silly" for arguing this because casual players wouldn't go to a tournament were you will only find hardcore, trained players in the first place. Then he argued that Sakurai wants to shrink the skill gap by removing skills except for things like spacing and mind games. I said that L-cancelling and wavedashing become a matter of muscle memory after initial practice and that spacing and mind games are skills that constantly have to be practiced which in my opinion is much more difficult. Then I got reported. Miiverse is supposed to be a connection between the communities and the developers yet every time one speaks of game mechanics they seem to get reported. I say this because I have seen other people complain about the same thing which is ridiculous. Anyone else had these instances? If so post them here.
That's like saying I won a golf tournament playing against 1 year olds...
 

Morbi

Scavenger
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I don't really post on Miiverse. The entire community is too colloquial for my tastes; however, reporting someone just because you have a disagreement? That is blatantly absurd. If it is bothering you, you might as well find somewhere else to post your Smash related discussion. Obviously Smashboards is a pretty good place, maybe even GameFaqs if you prefer the more passive environment to discuss smash.

Either that, or acknowledge that you can't change someones opinion if they are entirely adamant and unwilling to listen to reason. I honestly think that his perspective is more realistic though.
 

pitthekit

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
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588
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in a crate
I want wave dashing to return-giving you a burst mobility options with any ground or aerial based attack/evasion

I do not want l-cancelling to return as it gives you two options with one answer without a doubt.
Do you want more ending lag? Don't press l
Do you want less ending lag? Press l

Any sane person will pick less ending lag as there next move/play can be imputed quicker.

With that said I do think that some ending lag values on aerial attacks need to be made lower so characters such as gannondorf are not absolute crap.
 

DaDavid

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I want wave dashing to return-giving you a burst mobility options with any ground or aerial based attack/evasion

I do not want l-cancelling to return as it gives you two options with one answer without a doubt.
Do you want more ending lag? Don't press l
Do you want less ending lag? Press l

Any sane person will pick less ending lag as there next move/play can be imputed quicker.

With that said I do think that some ending lag values on aerial attacks need to be made lower so characters such as gannondorf are not absolute crap.
Yeah I don't see why people who think landing lag is a problem think L-Cancelling being brought back should be the solution. Just work on characters so that those that need to be quicker after landing to not be horrible, aren't so lagged down anymore.
 
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ndayday

stuck on a whole different plaaaanet
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I don't really post on Miiverse. The entire community is too colloquial for my tastes; however, reporting someone just because you have a disagreement? That is blatantly absurd. If it is bothering you, you might as well find somewhere else to post your Smash related discussion. Obviously Smashboards is a pretty good place, maybe even GameFaqs if you prefer the more passive environment to discuss smash.

Either that, or acknowledge that you can't change someones opinion if they are entirely adamant and unwilling to listen to reason. I honestly think that his perspective is more realistic though.
Yeah, Miiverse is hardly ever a good place for thought out discussion (although you might be surprised what reports come through here sometimes). I mean it's just the userbase that's most likely to argue with you are children that aren't afraid to hold some silly internet grudge. In any case I feel the Smash Bros. board is one of the bad ones along with Youtube etc.
 

Substitution

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Yeah, Miiverse is hardly ever a good place for thought out discussion (although you might be surprised what reports come through here sometimes). I mean it's just the userbase that's most likely to argue with you are children that aren't afraid to hold some silly internet grudge. In any case I feel the Smash Bros. board is one of the bad ones along with Youtube etc.
Eh, could be worse.
 

mimgrim

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Yeah, Miiverse is hardly ever a good place for thought out discussion (although you might be surprised what reports come through here sometimes). I mean it's just the userbase that's most likely to argue with you are children that aren't afraid to hold some silly internet grudge. In any case I feel the Smash Bros. board is one of the bad ones along with Youtube etc.
Oh, oh! Story time.



Anyways, OP, you were arguing on Miiverse. What did you expect? xD
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Miiverse tends to have a large number of users who can be rather ignorant. In those scenarios, you're better off avoiding them altogether.
 

nessokman

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Messages
1,641
The administration on miiverse is abysmal, You can literally get people banned by reporting posts that have nothing offensive in them. My friend said "You need to use an SD card" and got banned for "illegal activity" or "criminal activity" or something. 2 week ban.

It's like the administration just bans without actually reading the post......
 

Lozjam

Smash Champion
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Remember that a big portion of the miiverse community is 10 year olds, and to it is not wise to argue against people that do not know it's ok to have an opinion, for me miiverse is a place to share your gaming experiences, smashboards is for arguing, even thought the subject has been done to death
 

D-idara

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On Miiverse I argued that L-cancelling and Wavedashing should make a comeback because they allowed Hardcore players to enjoy Smash and casual players to enjoy it as well. Because L-cancelling was an optional way to speed up the otherwise slow game and wavedashing not only sped up the game it also complemented mind games. And another user, kept arguing with me and failing, saying that these skills were hard to learn and wouldn't allow casual players to enter tournaments. I said that he was "silly" for arguing this because casual players wouldn't go to a tournament were you will only find hardcore, trained players in the first place. Then he argued that Sakurai wants to shrink the skill gap by removing skills except for things like spacing and mind games. I said that L-cancelling and wavedashing become a matter of muscle memory after initial practice and that spacing and mind games are skills that constantly have to be practiced which in my opinion is much more difficult. Then I got reported. Miiverse is supposed to be a connection between the communities and the developers yet every time one speaks of game mechanics they seem to get reported. I say this because I have seen other people complain about the same thing which is ridiculous. Anyone else had these instances? If so post them here.
You deserved, wavedash needs to die...actually, all technical barriers need to die.
 

Vkrm

Smash Lord
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Feb 16, 2012
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Las Vegas
You deserved, wavedash needs to die...actually, all technical barriers need to die.
That logic collapses in on itself right out if the gate. You're really limiting the variety a game can have when you commit to the mindset that all options need to equally easy to preform. We wouldn't have mechanics like power shielding if sakurai agreed.
 

Mysteltainn

Smash Ace
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
888
Location
Canada
Kind of why I shy away from Miiverse other than chucking a random Tingle Bottle into the sea every once in a while when I played Wind Waker HD. Even then, I once got reported for forgetting to tick the "Spoilers" button when I shared Phantom Ganon's picture. It is generally a very young community that doesn't recognize sarcasm or being wrong, and is unable to embrace deep discussions and will argue for the sake of arguing.

Not really their fault either, it's just the way kids are.
 

SmashChu

Banned via Warnings
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5,924
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On Miiverse I argued that L-cancelling and Wavedashing should make a comeback because they allowed Hardcore players to enjoy Smash and casual players to enjoy it as well. Because L-cancelling was an optional way to speed up the otherwise slow game and wavedashing not only sped up the game it also complemented mind games. And another user, kept arguing with me and failing, saying that these skills were hard to learn and wouldn't allow casual players to enter tournaments. I said that he was "silly" for arguing this because casual players wouldn't go to a tournament were you will only find hardcore, trained players in the first place. Then he argued that Sakurai wants to shrink the skill gap by removing skills except for things like spacing and mind games. I said that L-cancelling and wavedashing become a matter of muscle memory after initial practice and that spacing and mind games are skills that constantly have to be practiced which in my opinion is much more difficult. Then I got reported. Miiverse is supposed to be a connection between the communities and the developers yet every time one speaks of game mechanics they seem to get reported. I say this because I have seen other people complain about the same thing which is ridiculous. Anyone else had these instances? If so post them here.
Sounds like you didn't really win.

He is right. Wavedashing is a difficult technique especially considering you need to do it and do other attacks. People here will claim it is easy but it's a matter of time. You can do most anything with enough time. But most people aren't going to waste their time to learn a technique to not get crushed online. Anyone with a professional job (or a job in general) or anyone in college who actually plans to pass their class (and isn't taking a gimme degree) wont be able to spend the time to do this AND do the other things they want to do (workout, read, hang with friends, go out, get with the opposite sex). Also, he is right that Sakurai wants to narrow the skill gap. Sakurai has said he targets Smash at intermediate players. It should be noted that people were generally hostile towards wavedashing and L-canceling and wanted them removed in Brawl. The people who want these mechanics are by far a smaller group than the ones who want them gone.

The other two problems is you don't win internet arguments. You both just look like idiots (trust me. It took a long time to figure this out). Also, it's Miiverse.
 

1MachGO

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
807
You deserved, wavedash needs to die...actually, all technical barriers need to die.
Such an arrogant post. Why do you feel compelled to ram your opinion down someone else's throat? Can't everyone just enjoy the game how they want to?
 

Arcadenik

Smash Legend
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So you won an argument on Miiverse, what do you want? A gold star? :awesome:

:starman:
 

1MachGO

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
807
Sounds like you didn't really win.

He is right. Wavedashing is a difficult technique especially considering you need to do it and do other attacks. People here will claim it is easy but it's a matter of time. You can do most anything with enough time. But most people aren't going to waste their time to learn a technique to not get crushed online. Anyone with a professional job (or a job in general) or anyone in college who actually plans to pass their class (and isn't taking a gimme degree) wont be able to spend the time to do this AND do the other things they want to do (workout, read, hang with friends, go out, get with the opposite sex). Also, he is right that Sakurai wants to narrow the skill gap. Sakurai has said he targets Smash at intermediate players. It should be noted that people were generally hostile towards wavedashing and L-canceling and wanted them removed in Brawl. The people who want these mechanics are by far a smaller group than the ones who want them gone.

The other two problems is you don't win internet arguments. You both just look like idiots (trust me. It took a long time to figure this out). Also, it's Miiverse.
Are you implying that the main demographic of smash bros players are fully grown adults/college students?

Additionally, you presented your own counter argument: if people who want advanced techniques are a minority, then how do their interests pose a threat? Wouldn't the small group of players who wavedash be drowned in the masses of other online players and make encountering them a rarity? (Not to mention that such players would be far more interested in private matches as opposed to four player free for alls with items). Regardless, Sakurai stated that when he reduced the skill gap it was in an effort to target a silent majority of players. You are speculating when you suggest that L-cancelling and wavedashing were disliked by the majority of players because it would only include players who actually know about wavedashing and L-cancelling. Also, Sakurai's focus shifting to intermediate players means he is raising the skill gap from Brawl; trying to appeal both hardcore and casual gamers.
 

ndayday

stuck on a whole different plaaaanet
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If this keeps going towards the direction of Melee vs. Brawl and spitting venom about Melee ATs I'm gonna lock.
Converse like we're on Smashboards and not Miiverse c:
 

SuperMii3D

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I know this is meant to be a serious thread, but let me say that this is one of the best Titles for a thread I have ever seen.

I once got blocked by a Miiverse user for arguing against him, and winning that argument (I cant remember what the argument was about though...)
 

Ulti-Bman

Smash Journeyman
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Are you implying that the main demographic of smash bros players are fully grown adults/college students?

Additionally, you presented your own counter argument: if people who want advanced techniques are a minority, then how do their interests pose a threat? Wouldn't the small group of players who wavedash be drowned in the masses of other online players and make encountering them a rarity? (Not to mention that such players would be far more interested in private matches as opposed to four player free for alls with items). Regardless, Sakurai stated that when he reduced the skill gap it was in an effort to target a silent majority of players. You are speculating when you suggest that L-cancelling and wavedashing were disliked by the majority of players because it would only include players who actually know about wavedashing and L-cancelling. Also, Sakurai's focus shifting to intermediate players means he is raising the skill gap from Brawl; trying to appeal both hardcore and casual gamers.
I actually wouldn't doubt that as the main demographic. Most of the teens like me seem to be more interested in shooters than Smash, and little kids are on Minecraft mostly. I'd say we narrowed it down to diehard Nintendo fans and Smash enthusiasts. Although it's aimed towards everyone.
 

lordvaati

Smash Master
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You deserved, wavedash needs to die...actually, all technical barriers need to die.
Not really. Rather then killing them outright, they should probably be more easily accessible, kinda like what they did with EVs in Pokemon X/Y.

Or maybe that's the part of me that wants Mario's wall jump cancel back talking again.
 

SuperMii3D

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Miiverse is stupid. In a nutshell:Here's a bunch of 3 year olds, find the most logical and smartest one.
 

Zonderion

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On Miiverse I argued that L-cancelling and Wavedashing should make a comeback because they allowed Hardcore players to enjoy Smash and casual players to enjoy it as well. Because L-cancelling was an optional way to speed up the otherwise slow game and wavedashing not only sped up the game it also complemented mind games. And another user, kept arguing with me and failing, saying that these skills were hard to learn and wouldn't allow casual players to enter tournaments. I said that he was "silly" for arguing this because casual players wouldn't go to a tournament were you will only find hardcore, trained players in the first place. Then he argued that Sakurai wants to shrink the skill gap by removing skills except for things like spacing and mind games. I said that L-cancelling and wavedashing become a matter of muscle memory after initial practice and that spacing and mind games are skills that constantly have to be practiced which in my opinion is much more difficult. Then I got reported. Miiverse is supposed to be a connection between the communities and the developers yet every time one speaks of game mechanics they seem to get reported. I say this because I have seen other people complain about the same thing which is ridiculous. Anyone else had these instances? If so post them here.

Wow, 13 posts in and you are already someone's signature.
 

Muster

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I got reported, but i guess i deserved it.
Some guy named ian (i think) commented on a thread during some argument argument saying
"my friend thinks that sonic shouldn't be in smash 4" (this was before he was announced)
I replied
"nobody cares what your friend thinks, ian."
Took all of 30 seconds for a mod to snatch that one up.
I also got a post removed for telling someone that they can in fact wavedash in project M
 

Jumpman84

Smash Lord
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Pretty sure I'm that 'kid'.You called me a re- well,you remember.No wonder you got reported,Nintendo doesn't even want you calling people 'silly'.
Wait... which kid are you? The one talking to the OP? Or one of the others mentioned in this thread?
 
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