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I was wrong Cloud thread

Spazzy_D

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I... want to agree immediately, but some part of me kinda feels like all bets are off at this point.

Ryu was an iconic character from a franchise birthed on the SNES in which he at least appeared in many games that were on the SNES. He made sense.

There's really no justification for Cloud being in this game other than "he's popular". He wasn't a main character of a FF game that was on a Nintendo console, and while FF was birthed on the NES, it's basically a different game with every sequel. It's not like Cloud is even a character that's from the same universe as any of the FF games on the S/NES.

Also, his moves look extremely similar to those of Ike/Shulk so I can't help but feel like there's going to be some overlap (though we'll ultimately have to wait and see how he plays).

Ergo, I kinda feel like we've arrived at a point when Nintendo isn't above trying to draw new players onto their consoles nearly any way they can. I can't ENTIRELY blame them, either...

Cloud will bring an audience to the Wii U/3DS that wouldn't have otherwise bought the game/console. That's undeniable.

Now, how FAR is Nintendo willing to push that advertising advantage into other areas? I have no idea, but I'm not counting anything out at this point. Master Chief, for example, sounds ridiculous to us, but it would no doubt convince a whole pile of Halo players to buy a Wii U and getting the console into the person's home is really most of the battle (buying games for it is much easier to justify than the initial purchase of the console).

And then that raises the question of non-VG characters. Many people have joked about Goku, but yeah, the DBZ fanbase is HUGE. Or what about Batman or Captain America? Again, it sounds insane to us, but I'm sure the Nintendo execs have sat down and discussed the pros and cons of that kind of crossover.

Naturally, it would piss off many of the existing fans, but in the end, what are we going to do? Sell our Wii Us and never play SSB4 again? We already own the game and the console. The odds are that we'll do the same thing we've always done: gripe about it for a while, then get used to it and buy whatever DLC characters they put in the game anyway (that's been the pattern and I'm sure Nintendo knows it).

Look at it another way: When Ryu was revealed, he had tons of supporters here. How many people here are actually genuinely excited about Cloud? I've not seen many, which confirms my suspicions: Cloud wasn't added to the game for US...

I think this reaction video says it all:

There's no excitement here. Only confusion.

I want to be wrong about this whole thing, as I'd much rather see obscure characters make it into the game instead of more popular 3rd party characters from other consoles, but I'm just not ruling it out at this point. Nintendo is all about the money and this would be a great way to bring in more of it...
Cloud was a pretty popular choice in Japan,

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

and he is SUPER popular in the casual Smash scene. There are more Brawl mods for Cloud then almost any other character. The speculation and hardcore Smash scenes are a very small part of the over all Smash community. He's a ballot character.
 

WrappedInBlack

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This sounds too accurate. I remember Cloud was the "Goku" character back when Brawl was announced.

It makes me wonder, though. With no support on this board for Cloud at all, and him apparently being popular enough to become the first announced character from the Ballot, it makes me wonder how much of an influence the Smash Community really had on the ballot...
He aint from the ballot tho. Chars aren't made in a single month.
 
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AGreatProcrastinator

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You're darn right I was wrong. About 99% of the fanbase was wrong, and I'm pretty sure the final 1% would have counted themselves as hopelessly optimistic just this morning.

Seriously, what does this say about the possible remaining DLC characters? They could be literally anyone at this point. Goku might actually get in Smash in your lifetime.
 

dangeraaron10

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I'm just glad it's Cloud.

When it comes to FF characters in Smash, Cloud is on the better end of that rope. For me at least.

On the very far other end of the rope is Lightning. I think I'd just sell my copy of the game if Lightning was there. Not even so much because I hate her, which I really don't, I just despise her game series. With every fiber of my being. At least Cloud is the protagonist of an amazing game. It only could have got better with Chrono or Black Mage / Vivi in my book. Yeah I know Chrono is not FF but he's still very much Squeenix.

People kept busting K. Rool's balls about not being popular with the "casuals" of Smash, basically everyone who doesn't participate in extensive online discussion or polling. People like me always asked "Who is this champion of the casuals in the ballot?" Well I can tell you if Cloud here is revealed to be ballot, it's him. He's the Champion of the Casual Voters. Spazzy_D Spazzy_D brings up an excellent point. Cloud gets laughed off by the hardcore online Smash community but he's a very popular pick among more casual players. He was big back in Brawl.

Something tells me he's Pre-Ballot though. Even if I would have believed it if Pre-Ballot ended with Royu and Super Mario Maker.

There's another character who gets laughed off by the hardcore online Smash community, who happens to be a purple winged parent eater who's time is due.

I can dream.

If Cloud can be in Smash,

...let a man dream.
 

Shroob

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Remember back in Brawl days where we laughed and mocked people who said Cloud should be in Smash?

We all have egg on our face now.
 

SimonBarSinister

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I don't know, can one really be wrong if they've never said anything for or against him?:troll:

But seriously, I certainly didn't expect Cloud, that's for sure.
 

LRodC

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He didn't ever cross my mind as a realistic addition, and I don't think I'm alone on that boat.
 

SuperSceptile15

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I was never against Cloud Strife's inclusion. In fact, I find it incredible that he made it in. It was an announcement I didn't think was realistically possible since FF7 was Sony exclusive, but lo-and-behold, it happened. Fans of other third party characters should take comfort in knowing their characters' chances aren't as low as we thought.
 

Shabadoo

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Well at first I was seething with rage...I mean....FF7 HD remake coming out...Cloud is now in smash....And I've only played about an 8th of FF6 so it didn't really grab me with nostalgia or glee. I just felt mad for some reason, I don't really care for cloud at all, but I made a pledge to buy the full roster....I should probably get back to FF6 one of these days. FF7 is out of the question, never owned a Sony console in my life. But this opens the window for so many FF costumes and characters! And while a goth looking blonde hunk with an almost Pyramid head lookin sword doesn't strike my fancy, the fact that Sakurai can put pretty much whoever he damn well pleases in his game does.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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The thing with the Final Fantasy series is that there is no recurrent character like in the Mario or Zelda games that fits the role of an immediate candidate for a Smash fighter because each installation (not counting sequels) brings about a new cast. Cloud however has managed to breakout from his role in his own game and has become a stand out icon for his franchise, and for better or worse he is the closest thing that FF has to a mascot. Other recurring characters such as moogles and chocobos don't really fit the bill in my opinion because they're mostly supporting elements of the game world. This is why I think Cloud was the best choice despite being more associated with Sony because nowadays you can't think of FF without him.
 

Brickbuild101

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While not against the idea, I used to think it was rather foolish to expect Cloud at all. Now I love his inclusion, not as a Final Fantasy fan (Though my interest in it has increased, especially with Explorers and that FFVII remake on the way.), but as someone that appreciates important video games. It's also cool that we basically have a PlayStation rep that's much more of one than Snake was. Cloud was born and raised in the PlayStation nation. I soooo wanna play as him.

I wonder how people that love Cloud and Final Fantasy VII but hate Nintendo feel about this news.
 
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ShinyRegice

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This is a character I've absolutely never considered at all. And I was wrong about the fact we'd most likely get no third-party character from a company not already involved in Smash 4. The fact the first character after Roy and Ryu to be confirmed wasn't even rated in the DLC edition of Rate Their Chances makes this even more embarrassing.

On the other hand I do hope he gets a sort of unique "star treatment" with his moveset. In a similar vein to how Ryu got unique mechanics based on traditional fighters, it would make a ton of sense for Cloud to have mechanics inspired from RPGs, to a greater degree than Robin and Shulk. With his "Limit break" thing and the kanjis that sometimes appear when he attacks, I'd say it's quite likely to be the case. Otherwise his inclusion as a guest wouldn't feel much special imo.

Edit: I wrote "however", but this was an error as I actually intended to write "otherwise".
 
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Strider_Bond00J

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I never expected that we'd ever see Cloud Strife -arguably one of the most iconic Final Fantasy characters, and by extension, a video game icon, revealed today. Was I supportive of Final Fantasy content? Yes - for me it was either Black Mage or Cloud. I always felt Cloud would have been the best choice if ever happened, and bam. It happened. Cloud Strife in the city of Midgar, being able to fight Mario, Pikachu... It often makes me smile with glee to consider who Cloud is now able to fight against...!

This is a very surprising and amazing victory. I never thought that Final Fantasy would get any sort of representation in Super Smash Bros 4, and Cloud Strife, at that. You've done an awesome job, Sakurai.
 

TechPowah

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I was wrong - not because I didn't think Cloud would eventually get in, he's one of the most famous video game characters ever this side of the arcades - but because I assumed they would go with one of the characters they used in the other Nintendo/Square-Enix crossovers (Mario Sports Mix, Mario Hoops, Fortune Street) before him. =P
 

Mr.Seven

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The thing with Cloud is that there was no way anyone other than the most hardcore of Final Fantasy VII fans would even consider him a possibility. (And one of my best friends is a HUGE FF fan, with Cloud being his favorite game character of all time, and he never considered it.) There is no way he was a ballot character, looking at all of the development gone into him on the trailer. He had to have been in development since the opening of the ballot, due to Sakurai's comments on how long it takes to make just one character.

If anything, I would bet that the last two slots (from the data mine of the last update, which added three placeholder spots) will be for the obvious winner of the ballot (my bets are on K. Rool) and some indie game representation, due to Nintendo always talking about supporting the indie game scene (either Shovel Knight or Shantae).

I was wrong about Cloud, and so was 99% of the world.

Though I'm going to make Cloud a main of mine... Possibly even overshadow my current main, Little Mac.
 
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Bobert

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I completely forgot Cloud even existed until this happened.
 

Y2Kay

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Pac-Man is owned by the company that co-developed the game (Banco), though, and Pac-Man has been on tons of Nintendo consoles. And Namco and Nintendo are extremely buddy-buddy right now (unlike Nintendo and Square, who haven't really worked together since Mario Basketball, AFAIK).

Also, Pac-Man's popularity doesn't even hold a candle next to Cloud's. At one point, sure, he was huge, but the number of FF nerds out there absolutely dwarfs whatever Pac-Man fans are left.

Again, why Cloud? Because he's the most popular FF character. No other reason. He's the first character added to SSB who couldn't possibly be for the Nintendo fanbase because the Nintendo fanbase has no attachment to him (excluding people who also owned a PS back in the day, I mean).
Square enix has been helping them develop the games since brawl tho.
 

S_B

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Yeah, actually.
This is NOTHING compared to the Ryu hype on reveal...

The Ryu forum filled up with "OMG YES!" threads on hour zero. Same thing definitely didn't happen here.

You nailed it, this is why it was Cloud.
...Because he's more popular. Yes, that's exactly what I've been saying all along.

Whether you think this is a shame or not is up to you, but what I'm sensing here is a lot of salt that it wasn't Terra.
Get your salt-sensor checked, then, because this is nothing but a basic analysis of the situation (trust me, I will make my salt KNOWN if a character gets announced that I'm truly unhappy with).

I never played FFVI, VII, etc. (I was a Sega kid, actually), but all of my Nintendo-loving friends swear by FFVI. My fiancee is one of them, and when she came home from work last night, I showed her the trailer and her reaction was, "Why are you showing me this?" immediately followed by, "Shouldn't it have been a FF character from an actual Nintendo game?"

Which leads me back to my point: this is a notable change in the way Sakurai chooses characters for SSB. Up until now, every character has had some form of relevance to Nintendo's history and has at least starred in a game on Nintendo hardware. Cloud is the first character that was blatantly neither of these.

What fond memories do Nintendo fans have of Cloud? Short answer: they don't. He's not a part of Nintendo's history.

Again, I'm not salty about this (I honestly don't even consider myself a Nintendo fan any longer, as SSB4 is the reason I bought a Wii U and I've not purchased even one other game for the console, mainly because I hate the controller so damn much...), merely making an observation that leads to my conclusion that all bets are, in fact, off.

Sakurai has already stated that if a character got enough votes, he'd add them, regardless of where that character came from. At this point, I think we can consider the way paved for Goku and company. After all, how else is Sakurai going to top the shock from Cloud? ;)
 
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LuLLo

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People saying Cloud doesn't 'deserve' are really just entitled and overthink things way too much. No sense in argueing over content that the creators are making for us, you can always choose to not buy it.
The game-developer has chosen to put him in, rules are meant to be broken, Cloud is hype, Smash4 is hype. Let's just enjoy the fact that we get so many characters and get hype for more! Every gaming icon is more than welcome, no matter how much I dislike them.
 

Nonno Umby

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Two at the time of Brawl's launch, since Kojima and Konami have basically disowned Snake's Revenge. Three total as of now.

Wrong. Before Brawl he starred in 4 games (Metal Gear and Snake's Revenge on NES, Metal Gear Ghost Babel on the GBC, and The Twin Snakes on the GC) Just because they said a game isn'the canon doesn't mean it didn't existed. After that he got 3 new games on Nintendo, being the MSX version of Metal Gear (different game) and Metal Gear 2 on the Wii Virtual Console. Then we got Snake Eater 3D.
Total REAL GAMES that starred him: 7.
He also got several cameos in games like Castevania, Yu-gi-oh, Dream Fighter and Pro Skater.
Cloud can't even reach 7 cameos.
And I'm clear: I don't mean that Cloud shouldn't be in Smash, but Snake deserves more than him, and he has all (and more) the requirement that Cloud has (as if his presence in Brawl wasn't enought for prove it).
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

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Yeah, Cloud is still far and away the most popular FF character, for better or worse.

At one point, I DID point out that Square had no representation when they very much SHOULD have, but I was thinking maybe Tifa Lockhardt, what with Sakurai wanting more female characters in the game and all that.

I don't MIND cloud, but we have more than enough anime boys with swords at this point.

Also, I feel like Sakurai is kind just picking popular characters because they're popular. Pretty much the only chance a character has to get in the game if they weren't on the poll is if Sakurai chooses them, so we got another pretty boy with a sword instead of a potentially unique, quirky, obscure character.

Then again, maybe the Nintendo execs took Sakurai aside when SSB4 was releasing and said, "The Wii U is a Gamecube-level failure. We need to bring as many new players in as possible and we're going to use SSB4 to do that."

So, maybe Master Chief is next, followed by Kratos, Lara Croft and who knows who else...
It seems that you are making a lot of misinformed assumptions about the subject, wouldn't be the first time anyways.

It's very narrow-minded to categorize Cloud under "just another anime swordsman" stereotype because it seems that people like you merely see the sword and diss the character immediately, all while ignoring the perks that she or he may bring to the table. So far he seems to have a unique mechanic based on his Limit Breaks which apparently alter his moves, we'll see more in due time. And you have to keep in mind as well that there are just so many slashing and sweeping motions a character can do in a X & Y axis environment that hasn't been done in a similar fashion by others. Say if they included Tifa instead, a brawler, a character who you just suggested, what sort of unique moves would she have in her A moveset that haven't been done already by fellow brawlers Mario, Fox, Captain Falcon, Little Mac, Ganondorf, Ryu, Mii Brawler and the lot? I frankly fail to see how that would be much better to what we got in Cloud.

There's really no justification for Cloud being in this game other than "he's popular". He wasn't a main character of a FF game that was on a Nintendo console, and while FF was birthed on the NES, it's basically a different game with every sequel. It's not like Cloud is even a character that's from the same universe as any of the FF games on the S/NES.
What makes you think that there needs to be "justification" of some kind as if some kind of heinous crime was committed? It is not that hard to look into. The FF franchise unlike Mario or Zelda or others doesn't have an established recurrent protagonist that may serve as an immediate addition since every instalment brings about a new universe and cast of characters. Cloud is the closest thing the franchise has to a mascot as he represents it across several media, and while it is true that he has little to do with Nintendo, the series has had a long running history with them, and considering his iconic status his inclusion just makes a bit more sense than the likes of Terra or Cecil; none of them became the breakout character that Cloud is today. So you can see him being in Smash as a representation of Final Fantasy rather than just one game. He is still a videogame character through and through and he showcases a franchise that has had games in Nintendo consoles for a long time, so I highly doubt that his "paves" the way to Goku and co., you are exaggerating the implications of his inclusion.

He is certainly the most popular FF character but it goes more than that. Speaking of popularity...

so we got another pretty boy with a sword instead of a potentially unique, quirky, obscure character.
Obscurity and quirkiness is not necessarily correlated to uniqueness specially when it comes to movesets. Forgive me for saying this but you come off as trying to sound as a special snowflake for liking a character fewer people know about and being indifferent towards the more popular one. Nothing wrong with liking someone more than other but don't try to sell it as the "better" choice in terms of uniqueness when it's a matter of personal taste.
I also doubt that Sakurai went about and picked a character as if it were a popularity contest; why are you assuming that this was his thought process for this inclusion? I mean, he obviously did work on Cloud, but may I remind you that early this year everyone and their mother wanted their character in Smash and were letting everyone know about it. This seems more like Square Enix's doing rather than Sakurai; they wanted in on the sweet pie that is Smash and do some advertisement for their games so they probably made a deal with Nintendo, and Sakurai complied, what reason is there to say no? They get their flagship character to have a presence among the pantheon of video game legends while fans get a chance to play as him, you are making it sound as if we were the losers in this deal.

Look at it another way: When Ryu was revealed, he had tons of supporters here. How many people here are actually genuinely excited about Cloud? I've not seen many, which confirms my suspicions: Cloud wasn't added to the game for US...
...Not a good example to gauge the impact of a character's inclusion. You showcased ONE video as evidence, yet I've seen several others where people burst out of sheer happiness, I've also seen people in this forums and others showing genuine excitement. If you are trying to make a point by saying that very few people actually like his inclusion it falls short from it's mark.
On the other hand, I've literally seen every newcomer announced for this game get their fair share of hate which by no means signifies that their inclusion was bad. Don't forget that this is the internet where people will curse over every stupid thing. This is why your example doesn't work. Your suspicions seem a bit unfounded.

I want to be wrong about this whole thing, as I'd much rather see obscure characters make it into the game instead of more popular 3rd party characters from other consoles, but I'm just not ruling it out at this point. Nintendo is all about the money and this would be a great way to bring in more of it...
And I would like to see actual video game legends make it in instead, and so far all third party characters fit that bill and Cloud is no exception, regardless of how special you want to feel in your character choices this is something that cannot be denied.
 
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Erotic&Heretic

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Also, I simply think that japaneses don't really care about the "console war" as much as americans and europeans.

As I already stated, Cloud may be associated heavily to the Playstation 1, but what matter is that he is the face of one of the biggest RPG series, that is third party, not a Sony serie.

Cloud tends to keep proving that the japanese audience is what matter / that Sakurai have a japanese point of view by the way, as he seemed to be fairly request there even before the ballot.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/
 

pupNapoleon

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This thread is the best thread I've seen on this board.
I've never had so little to do in regard to instigating conversation of worthwhile reading.

The *Grabbing popcorn* would be accurate. I'd only need butter because the thread is more than salty enough.

Gotta love when reality hits the smashboards, it doesn't happen nearly often enough.

EDIT: But legit, I'm sitting here with a tall glass of wine, watching the 90s hit Mallrats, and being a thread pariah. Happiest day Ive had in the smash community since P.Trainer's sensational reveal.
 
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Kuraudo

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Super Smash Bros. as a series has evolved for the better.

It began as a fun playground for people to say, what if Captain Falcon fought Ness from Earthbound?

Upairupairupair up b dead

Then Melee happened, and that idea of dream Nintendo battles happened and got taken further. We got bad guys in Ganondorf and Bowser. The stakes got higher.

But something happened as Brawl was being developed. The Internet was changing. Information was easier to access. Rumours would fly. News articles online were easy to access. Suddenly the Smash DOJO became an unpredictable place. And with it came a whole bunch of possibilities. Snake and Sonic came in.

Which now brings me to Smash for Wii U/3DS.

In this day and age, no matter what walk of life we come from, we all come together as nerds to discuss what doesn't exist. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft fans are closer than ever to their favorite companies and (some wouldn't like to admit it), to each other too.

The FGC fans (Ryu), the Sonic fans, the classics in Pac-Man and Mega Man, the game that introduced most people to the idea of RPG (Cloud).

We're all a lot closer than we think. Put us all together in one room? And what do we get?

Super Smash Bros. for Wii U & 3DS.

This is what Smash is now. And I like it.
 

pupNapoleon

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My favorite thing about this, is that it justifies what I have argued since smash64- that a character represents his SERIES/universe, above more than just representing himself.

Or, in other words, that a character gets in more than as merit to what his namesake suggests.

If anything, I would bet that the last two slots (from the data mine of the last update, which added three placeholder spots) will be for the obvious winner of the ballot (my bets are on K. Rool) and some indie game representation, due to Nintendo always talking about supporting the indie game scene (either Shovel Knight or Shantae).
...Minecraft Steve is the only indie choice.
 

Metal Shop X

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I never thinked or wanted Cloud before this day. But now that he is confirm. And that i see alot of people reaction being nuts and happy about it. I can say that, i am very happy with Cloud inclusion. :)

Now, i need that he got a crossdressing outift. Plz samurai.:4wiifitm:
 
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D

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I didn't expect Cloud. Im not even going to make a joke.

The most embarassing thing for me is that i got the memo AFTER the direct finished since i got bored and stopped watching it before they revealed Cloud. I remember loggin' in Smashboards and i saw people mentioning Cloud and i was like "no way, somebody's pulling my leg", but it wasn't a joke, oh boy it wasn't.

I really need to play Final Fantasy 7. Hovewer on a brighter note for me, Cloud's inclusion only gives more proof to the idea that in order to be a Guest Fighter in Smash, you need to be a BIG icon of the gaming industry, which makes characters like Shantae or Shovel Knight even LESS Likely in my opinion.

Also i feel bad for XenoBrawler610 and SmashChu, since i remember Xeno making a rant against Cloud back in a Rate Their Chances day and for Smashchu....well....you know.
 

UberPyro64

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I thought about it but I figured Crono or Terra were more likely since Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI (the later being my favorite game of all time) were on Nintendo platforms and are highly regarded as well. Cloud and Final Fantasy VII were definitely more iconic than those characters and titles though so it does make sense from that stand point. That got the bigger influence on gaming. And that is a good thing.

Now we just need Crono and Sephiroth as well as Snake to return to complete the GameFAQs Noble 9. We already got Mario, Link Samus, Mega Man, Sonic and now Cloud.
 

S_B

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It seems that you are making a lot of misinformed assumptions about the subject
I'm not here to argue either opinion or "worthiness" of any particular character. I'm only interested in two things:

1. Sakurai's criteria for including a character as playable.

2. What this means for the potential of other characters who could be added to the roster at a later date.

Facts:

-Cloud has not starred in any game on a Nintendo platform (yet). He has cameo appearances at best. This says nothing about his "worthiness" or anything of the sort. What WE decide is worthy is ultimately irrelevant because it's all up to Sakurai. I'm just trying to get a feel for what Sakurai's criteria is because it aids in making future predictions and whatnot.

-Snake starred in several games on Nintendo platforms, but beyond that, Sakurai is personal friends with Hideo Kojima. Do we know if Sakurai is buddies with anyone from SE?

-If Cloud was anything but unexpected, this thread wouldn't be here, meaning most folks had an idea about what the requirements for inclusion were and Sakurai is now clearly operating outside of those parameters.

Again, I'm not here to debate opinion and drive this thread to a bajillion posts. I'm just trying to determine how much more open the inclusion process for playable characters in SSB may indeed become (or has ALREADY become...). During Brawl, Sakurai mentioned that he would only include characters who were "born" as video game characters and were at least on a Nintendo platform at some point.

More recently, however, he said regarding the poll that they'd take ANY character if enough people voted for it.

With that noted, I don't think I'd be surprised to see Goku added even one TINY bit.

Like I said, how else is Sakurai going to top Cloud's reveal? ;)

PS. If they announce that the upcoming FFVI remake is also bound for a Nintendo platform, then that changes things a bit because it shifts Cloud's appeal to be more Nintendo oriented. Still doesn't rule OUT Goku, though...
 
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FooltheFlames

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I'm preeeety surprised! I thought if Nintendo ever worked with Square on bringing in a Newcomer it would be Geno or Black Mage or Sora or the like~

Maybe SquareEnix pushed Nintendo to take Cloud or no one at all in an effort to advertise the new FF7 remake??? :0
 
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S_B

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Maybe SquareEnix pushed Nintendo to take Cloud or no one at all in an effort to advertise the new FF7 remake??? :0
I think they SHOULD do this, and I'm not sure why they haven't in this and other cases...

For example, when Nintendo was rereleasing GC games on the Wii, it seems silly to have not rereleased MGS: Twin Snakes. Hell, the game was already made, and updating it for the Wii wouldn't have been all that hard.

Same with not adding a Nintendo character as DLC to Street Fighter 4 after Ryu's release (Cpt Falcon would fit in PERFECTLY...).

And they're missing a golden opportunity if they don't release the FFVII remake to Wii U.

I'm left scratching my head over this. After all, look what SSBM was able to do for Fire Emblem, a series that had zero visibility in the US until Melee taught everyone who Marth and Roy are!

I think Cloud in SSB4 would definitely help drive sales of a FFVII remake on the Wii U or 3DS...
 
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A-money2121

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I think they SHOULD do this, and I'm not sure why they haven't in this and other cases...

For example, when Nintendo was rereleasing GC games on the Wii, it seems silly to have not rereleased MGS: Twin Snakes. Hell, the game was already made, and updating it for the Wii wouldn't have been all that hard.

Same with not adding a Nintendo character as DLC to Street Fighter 4 after Ryu's release (Cpt Falcon would fit in PERFECTLY...).

And they're missing a golden opportunity if they don't release the FFVII remake to Wii U.

I'm left scratching my head over this. After all, look what SSBM was able to do for Fire Emblem, a series that had zero visibility in the US until Melee taught everyone who Marth and Roy are!

I think Cloud in SSB4 would definitely help drive sales of a FFVII remake on the Wii U or 3DS...
Quite honestly, I've never gained interest in Final Fantasy until this happened. So, quite frankly, it's working on me. RIP Wallet.
 
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Oz37

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I would have never thought this would happen, but I couldn't be happier being wrong. I've seen others say it, but what I think may have happened here is that developers wanted someone from FF, and it wound up being Cloud because he is, for better or worse, the poster boy for Final Fantasy.

I've never been a big fan of Cloud, but that's mainly in comparison to all the other heroes. By himself, he's cool, and the fact that he's bringing other FF content with him makes me giddy. Midgar is going to be my new favorite stage with the music and summons. Like, I can't even.
 

pupNapoleon

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I'm not here to argue either opinion or "worthiness" of any particular character. I'm only interested in two things:

1. Sakurai's criteria for including a character as playable.

2. What this means for the potential of other characters who could be added to the roster at a later date.

Facts:

-Cloud has not starred in any game on a Nintendo platform (yet). He has cameo appearances at best. This says nothing about his "worthiness" or anything of the sort. What WE decide is worthy is ultimately irrelevant because it's all up to Sakurai. I'm just trying to get a feel for what Sakurai's criteria is because it aids in making future predictions and whatnot.

-Snake starred in several games on Nintendo platforms, but beyond that, Sakurai is personal friends with Hideo Kojima. Do we know if Sakurai is buddies with anyone from SE?

-If Cloud was anything but unexpected, this thread wouldn't be here, meaning most folks had an idea about what the requirements for inclusion were and Sakurai is now clearly operating outside of those parameters.

Again, I'm not here to debate opinion and drive this thread to a bajillion posts. I'm just trying to determine how much more open the inclusion process for playable characters in SSB may indeed become (or has ALREADY become...). During Brawl, Sakurai mentioned that he would only include characters who were "born" as video game characters and were at least on a Nintendo platform at some point.

More recently, however, he said regarding the poll that they'd take ANY character if enough people voted for it.

With that noted, I don't think I'd be surprised to see Goku added even one TINY bit.

Like I said, how else is Sakurai going to top Cloud's reveal? ;)

PS. If they announce that the upcoming FFVI remake is also bound for a Nintendo platform, then that changes things a bit because it shifts Cloud's appeal to be more Nintendo oriented. Still doesn't rule OUT Goku, though...
I think you need more time to take a step back.
Sure, Snake (in two of his five carnations) may have been on a Nintendo console, but he certainly left Nintendo. Cloud's franchise was born on Nintendo. This goes beyond the character and into the series- Snake showed us that already (because he himself was not particularly iconic, by definition- it was his series that was iconic and legendary).

Cloud getting in many have been a surprise (though every new character has an "I was wrong thread," that is part of the charm), but he is a gaming legend. This has nothing to do with characters who arent in gaming. Even if Snake started on Nintendo, he left Nintendo. Even if Sakurai had a friend push for Snake, that wasnt enough to get him back in the sequel, and now that friend is gone. That friend also openly badmouthed Nintendo, relentlessly.

Trying to find distinguish the two, is really just trying to showcase a clearly wrong point, that Cloud didnt deserve it.
Obviously, he did, because here he is in the game.
Gaming icon means gaming icon. It was a stretch, ever, to say Snake had true ties to Nintendo. Hell, all the 'third party' characters we do have, are not third party characters- they are third party mascots.

All we have are third party mascots. Cloud shouldnt be too shocking. Honestly.
 

S_B

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I think you need more time to take a step back.
By Sakurai's own old "rules", Cloud was only a viable choice for inclusion on a technicality. My goal is to determine how those rules may have changed. There's nothing to "step back" from.

Sure, Snake (in two of his five carnations) may have been on a Nintendo console, but he certainly left Nintendo.
By that logic, Ness and ROB shouldn't be in the game because Snake has been in a Nintendo game more recently than both of them...

But I don't want to argue semantics.

This goes beyond the character and into the series
This is your opinion and there was absolutely nothing to support it before Cloud was actually announced, and the fact that we're discussing it in a thread about how surprised people were corroborates the fact that most people had no expectation that Cloud would make it into the game.

Trying to find distinguish the two, is really just trying to showcase a clearly wrong point, that Cloud didnt deserve it
Did you NOT read the part where I just finished explaining that I'm neutral on Cloud's inclusion and only want to determine how Sakurai's criteria for including characters may have changed?

How many more times do I need to say it..?

Obviously, he did, because here he is in the game.
"Deserve" is the wrong word here because, once AGAIN, who or what is "deserving" is entirely based upon opinion and trying to argue that is like trying to nail jell-o to the wall.

We can't know for absolute certain why Sakurai added Cloud, and frankly, it's not super important anyway.

What IS important is how it affects his former outlined rules regarding how he chooses characters to add to the game. That's really all that matters, here. There's no need to defend Cloud when no one is attacking him.

But this, I think, speaks a lot about Sakurai's current stance on DLC characters:
http://mynintendonews.com/2015/03/2...ayable-in-smash-bros-if-he-were-better-known/

He mentions that Takamaru was considered but wasn't popular enough, which is a total 180 from Sakurai's old stance on character inclusion which gave us characters like Ness, Lucas, ROB, Ice Climbers, and G&W, none of which were particularly popular (prior to being included, I mean).

He also mentions that a lot of people asked for Goku... :troll:

Though, I think I'm inclined now to believe that we won't see non-native videogame characters, as the poll DID ask players to specifically only vote for videogame characters.

Still, I wouldn't exactly be shocked to see a non-VG eventually make their debut, since he had previously outlined a number of rules about how characters would be chosen and those rules have since been broken. We'll see...

I wasn't that surprised about Cloud and I think trying to "rule out" any characters is impossible. The only thing that might surprise me at this point is if Sakurai starts pulling characters from classic literature or something... :p

"Othello brings Moor pain!"
 
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pupNapoleon

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By Sakurai's own old "rules", Cloud was only a viable choice for inclusion on a technicality. My goal is to determine how those rules may have changed. There's nothing to "step back" from.
I said step back because anyone reading your posts can evidently clear that your being bias and are worked up emotionally. You can disagree with me, but I'd prefer it be done from a sound point, rather than clear emotional distress.

The 'rules' change all the time. Cloud didnt demonstrate this. Even Pacman/Villager/Snake didnt break this.

The only rule in 64 was Nintendo All Star. And that rule was broken, immediately, with Jigglypuff. However, it was surely and clearly broken by Melee, with Roy.

The rules change all the time, stop whining.


By that logic, Ness and ROB shouldn't be in the game because Snake has been in a Nintendo game more recently than both of them...

But I don't want to argue semantics.
1- Yes, Semantics are all you want to argue.
2- I didnt claim recency in my post. I said Snake abandoned Nintendo, and isnt associated with Nintendo. You are stuck on semantics to the state of missing the point.


This is your opinion and there was absolutely nothing to support it before Cloud was actually announced, and the fact that we're discussing it in a thread about how surprised people were corroborates the fact that most people had no expectation that Cloud would make it into the game.
Peoples expectations mean nothing- the masses are wrong often, in every field, throughout history. Lets even bring up Galileo.

It is also not an opinion. If you want to discuss 'characters represent their world,' not themselves, Id be happy to start an elongated conversation about it- it is not an opinion, it is what we have seen in the games since the beginning. Simply put, that is why not one character does only what he/she does in his game. From the beginning, Captain Falcon and Fox, hell, even Mario, represented their franchise, not themselves alone as characters. This isnt an opinion, it is fact, a fact Sakurai clearly believed before, and Cloud once again demonstrates.

Did you NOT read the part where I just finished explaining that I'm neutral on Cloud's inclusion and only want to determine how Sakurai's criteria for including characters may have changed?
I said that, and your pointed tone, lack of sensibility, and evident manner of posting, show me that you are either lacking the self awareness to see how angry you are about the situation, or are trying to guise your distaste as something else. Stop attempting to belittle me- I can be far more patronizing than you, and am refraining from doing so. Drop the attitude.

How many more times do I need to say it..?
Actions speak louder than words. Act like someone who doesn't care... you, without question, are worked up.

"Deserve" is the wrong word here because, once AGAIN, who or what is "deserving" is entirely based upon opinion and trying to argue that is like trying to nail jell-o to the wall.

We can't know for absolute certain why Sakurai added Cloud, and frankly, it's not super important anyway.
Well.. in extremes it is hard to pinpoint, but there is certainly a level of what id deserved. This is why we dont have 100 Pokemon, is why we dont have Goomba, and is why we dont have the character I made in my computer program in 5th grade. Its not a very feasible term, but its not a useless word, either.

What IS important is how it affects his former outlined rules regarding how he chooses characters to add to the game. That's really all that matters, here. There's no need to defend Cloud when no one is attacking him.
You are attacking him though. And Im merely pointing out holes in your logic. The fact that you think Im doing anything else proves that you are not acting rational.

But this, I think, speaks a lot about Sakurai's current stance on DLC characters:
http://mynintendonews.com/2015/03/2...ayable-in-smash-bros-if-he-were-better-known/

He mentions that Takamaru was considered but wasn't popular enough, which is a total 180 from Sakurai's old stance on character inclusion which gave us characters like Ness, Lucas, ROB, Ice Climbers, and G&W, none of which were particularly popular (prior to being included, I mean).
Exactly... rules change. Its not 'rules.' It is one man, who is solely responsible for character inclusions, trying his best to continually explain his through processes, to a translation, then group of ravenous insatiable fans. There are no RULES, there is no codification.

Still, I wouldn't exactly be shocked to see a non-VG eventually make their debut, since he had previously outlined a number of rules about how characters would be chosen and those rules have since been broken. We'll see...
To be broken, a rule must not only have precedent, but consequence. We have never had 'rules,' at best... asumed guidelines.

I wasn't that surprised about Cloud and I think trying to "rule out" any characters is impossible. The only thing that might surprise me at this point is if Sakurai starts pulling characters from classic literature or something... :p

"Othello brings Moor pain!"
I would love a game where I can battle it out as classic literary characters. THAT would certainly appeal to a somewhat completely untouched demographic. THAT is a big idea.
 

S_B

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I said step back because anyone reading your posts can evidently clear that your being bias and are worked up emotionally. You can disagree with me, but I'd prefer it be done from a sound point, rather than clear emotional distress
No offense, but you're coming across as the forum version of a "social justice warrior" right now, the type who will strain and squint hard enough at any situation until they see whatever "injustice" they want to see.

When I say that Cloud was chosen because he was popular, you're reading that as a slight against Cloud, which it isn't. I'm neutral on him (never played 7, but he was badass in Advent Children), but actually excited for his stage and the potential for more FF-related things like assist trophies because they have tons of material to work with from the SE universe.

The 'rules' change all the time.
"Rules" is the wrong term, then, as we're actually talking about Sakurai's decision making criteria, and really, Cloud shouldn't have been THAT much of a surprise to us because Sakurai has stated that if a character is either in a dead-end series or isn't popular enough, he wouldn't include them.

This, combined with Cloud's addition is quite helpful because it suggests that another popular video game icon will very likely be the next 3rd party inclusion, and that character having very minor roles in Nintendo titles isn't a barrier to their inclusion where most people clearly thought it was (again, look at the thread title...).

The next question to ask is whether or not Cloud's cameos were even relevant to Sakurai's guidelines. I'm betting they're not, and we could hypothetically see a character from another franchise that has never appeared on a Nintendo platform, not even once.

I can be far more patronizing than you, and am refraining from doing so. Drop the attitude.
I'm not patronizing you. I JUST finished saying that those weren't my feelings and you told me that I was wrong and that they ARE my feelings.

Again, this is social justice warrior behavior. I said, "I have nothing against Cloud" to which your response is, "No, you HATE Cloud and your post is horribly emotionally charged."

Actions speak louder than words. Act like someone who doesn't care... you, without question, are worked up
What are you basing this on, exactly?

I said that there were other characters I would've rather seen, and since this thread is FULL of people who are saying how shocked they were about Cloud's inclusion, I think it's safe to say that most of these people had other characters they were hoping for more than Cloud as well.

But how do you read, "There are other characters I would've preferred to see first" and turn it into, "I hate Cloud so much!"?

I don't know if it's the fact that it's difficult to infer tone from text, but I promise that you're misreading the situation.

I'd be upset if there was another FF character who I was REALLY rooting for (I bet Geno fans probably died inside when they saw Cloud announced...) but none of my desired 3rd party newcomers are from SE so it doesn't really affect me.

Again, there are characters who I'll DEFINITELY be salty to see included, but Cloud isn't one of them. If you still think I hate Cloud after this, I don't know what to tell you.

Opinions aren't binary. It's not a decision between "love" or "hate" with nothing in between. It's always a gradient. I'm smack dab in the middle on Cloud, but I find his inclusion interesting for the very same reasons he was such a surprise to everyone.

I was never against Cloud Strife's inclusion. In fact, I find it incredible that he made it in. It was an announcement I didn't think was realistically possible since FF7 was Sony exclusive, but lo-and-behold, it happened. Fans of other third party characters should take comfort in knowing their characters' chances aren't as low as we thought.
Exactly this.

I think the only real "barrier" left to a videogame character's inclusion is that they have to at least be popular in Japan, but after that, it's anyone's guess.

And hell, it's time we started asking ourselves what Japan-only franchises are mega popular right now. We could get a new "Marth" and never even expect it...
 
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Gimmick

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I honestly don't see how Cloud's moves are that unique. Most of them are just generic sword slashes, or just not anything notable for smash. The only thing interesting about him is the fact that he has a projectile (Robin), and the limit break (and even that doesn't look like anything to special).
 
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