I was wrong Cloud thread

[Strofirko]

Let's fill the next 1000 pages about touching stories back of our college days where sum generic swordman of the rival company would never make it into smash.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I will not make a post about how a somewhat "Sony character" would never make it in the past, but instead...

I'm quite surprised, but by Cloud, not by Final Fantasy.

As Cloud IS often associated with Playstation, I thought that he wasn't the best way to represent FF in Smash, and that instead it would be better to represent FF through various Classic FF costumes for Miis.

But taking a step backwards, he is still the "face" of FF.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Why is they're a thread of this

0% of the world expected cloud to make it.

 

[Strofirko]

Why is they're a thread of this

0% of the world expected cloud to make it.

You got me bruh.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Why is they're a thread of this

0% of the world expected cloud to make it.

Agreed. At least change the thread title from "I was Wrong" to "What the **** is happening"

 

[Itty Bit]

Why is they're a thread of this

0% of the world expected cloud to make it.

This sounds too accurate. I remember Cloud was the "Goku" character back when Brawl was announced.

It makes me wonder, though. With no support on this board for Cloud at all, and him apparently being popular enough to become the first announced character from the Ballot, it makes me wonder how much of an influence the Smash Community really had on the ballot...

 

[Arcadenik]

I was wrong and right... wrong because I wanted other FF characters like Chocobo and Moogle and because I didn't think they would put someone who wasn't on the Nintendo consoles in Smash... right because Cloud was often the first choice to represent Final Fantasy in my mind before I suppressed the thought for aforementioned reasons.

But I am still happy with Cloud's inclusion in Smash mainly because we now have Final Fantasy in Smash.

I will not make a post about how a somewhat "Sony character" would never make it in the past, but instead...

I'm quite surprised, but by Cloud, not by Final Fantasy.

As Cloud IS often associated with Playstation, I thought that he wasn't the best way to represent FF in Smash, and that instead it would be better to represent FF through various Classic FF costumes for Miis.

But taking a step backwards, he is still the "face" of FF.

Well, we could get Mii costumes based on Black Mage, White Mage, and Moogle in addition to Chocobo. I want a Mii costume based on Cecil Harvey (FF4).

 

[Kevandre]

Maybe he'll bring Geno with him lol

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, we could get Mii costumes based on Black Mage, White Mage, and Moogle in addition to Chocobo. I want a Mii costume based on Cecil Harvey (FF4).

Sure, we can still get costumes and expand the FF representation! Like how we got Megaman costumes.

I want a Vanille costume

Seriously though, with the Chocobo hat, I almost guarantee a Slime hat from Dragon Quest.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sure, we can still get costumes and expand the FF representation! Like how we got Megaman costumes.

I want a Vanille costume

Seriously though, with the Chocobo hat, I almost guarantee a Slime hat from Dragon Quest.

Oh god.... yes!!! I really want Dragon Quest in Smash too!!

I am also hyped for Dragon Quest 7 and 8 coming to 3DS.

 

[AustarusIV]

I never thought Cloud himself would ever be playable in the Smash series, but I did entertain the notion of him being a Mii costume if Final Fantasy ended up getting a playable character in Smash that wasn't him.

Now that he's a proper fighter, I can only imagine that Tifa and Barret would become DLC Mii costumes in the future to accompany his release. That would be pretty cool, IMO.

 

[S_B]

I will not make a post about how a somewhat "Sony character" would never make it in the past, but instead...

I'm quite surprised, but by Cloud, not by Final Fantasy.

As Cloud IS often associated with Playstation, I thought that he wasn't the best way to represent FF in Smash, and that instead it would be better to represent FF through various Classic FF costumes for Miis.

But taking a step backwards, he is still the "face" of FF.

Yeah, Cloud is still far and away the most popular FF character, for better or worse.

At one point, I DID point out that Square had no representation when they very much SHOULD have, but I was thinking maybe Tifa Lockhardt, what with Sakurai wanting more female characters in the game and all that.

I don't MIND cloud, but we have more than enough anime boys with swords at this point.

Also, I feel like Sakurai is kind just picking popular characters because they're popular. Pretty much the only chance a character has to get in the game if they weren't on the poll is if Sakurai chooses them, so we got another pretty boy with a sword instead of a potentially unique, quirky, obscure character.

Then again, maybe the Nintendo execs took Sakurai aside when SSB4 was releasing and said, "The Wii U is a Gamecube-level failure. We need to bring as many new players in as possible and we're going to use SSB4 to do that."

So, maybe Master Chief is next, followed by Kratos, Lara Croft and who knows who else...

 

[UberMadman]

I mean, yeah if you had asked me I would have told you that Cloud would probably never be in Smash, but no one ever asked me because nobody I know would even consider the thought either. I guess I was wrong in not considering the possibility?

 

[Dreamking]

Mi Gunner will probably get a Barrett outfit. Would it be the original outfit or the AC one?

 

[Altais]

Like an above poster said, I'm not suprised that we got FF representation, but I AM surprised it was Cloud. [Shrugs] Then again, I've always pessimistically joked that Cloud had much better chances than Sora, what with Sora being owned by Disney. Funny how jokes come true like that.

Personally, I'm hoping one of Cloud's costumes is his Kingdom Hearts 1 outfit.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

S_B : I don't mind him either but more than being an "anime sword guy", what I fear is that he doesn't bring much to table and end up being a Ike / Shulk hybrid, despite the fact that I think creating a B moveset entirely unique is hard, and that it's okay to take ideas from other moves.

But he does bring Final Fantasy, so that's more than enough.

Compared to characters such as Master Chief, Cloud bring one huuuuuge serie in Smash, like the other guests did. Cloud sure is popular, but FF is definitely above games such as Halo ou God of War, when it comes to "legendary series". And on top of that, it's a japanese game!

I think that more than the character, what counts is the serie. And that's why I'm totally okay with a "playstationesque" character.

Character that is not in PASBR

 

[Y2Kay]

I wasn't wrong. It's still taking me some time to believe this is happening. those starry skies in the background in the beginning made me think wolf. i hate you nintendo

 

[S_B]

Compared to characters such as Master Chief, Cloud bring one huuuuuge serie in Smash, like the other guests did. Cloud sure is popular, but FF is definitely above games such as Halo ou God of War, when it comes to "legendary series". And on top of that, it's a japanese game!

I... want to agree immediately, but some part of me kinda feels like all bets are off at this point.

Ryu was an iconic character from a franchise birthed on the SNES in which he at least appeared in many games that were on the SNES. He made sense.

There's really no justification for Cloud being in this game other than "he's popular". He wasn't a main character of a FF game that was on a Nintendo console, and while FF was birthed on the NES, it's basically a different game with every sequel. It's not like Cloud is even a character that's from the same universe as any of the FF games on the S/NES.

Also, his moves look extremely similar to those of Ike/Shulk so I can't help but feel like there's going to be some overlap (though we'll ultimately have to wait and see how he plays).

Ergo, I kinda feel like we've arrived at a point when Nintendo isn't above trying to draw new players onto their consoles nearly any way they can. I can't ENTIRELY blame them, either...

Cloud will bring an audience to the Wii U/3DS that wouldn't have otherwise bought the game/console. That's undeniable.

Now, how FAR is Nintendo willing to push that advertising advantage into other areas? I have no idea, but I'm not counting anything out at this point. Master Chief, for example, sounds ridiculous to us, but it would no doubt convince a whole pile of Halo players to buy a Wii U and getting the console into the person's home is really most of the battle (buying games for it is much easier to justify than the initial purchase of the console).

And then that raises the question of non-VG characters. Many people have joked about Goku, but yeah, the DBZ fanbase is HUGE. Or what about Batman or Captain America? Again, it sounds insane to us, but I'm sure the Nintendo execs have sat down and discussed the pros and cons of that kind of crossover.

Naturally, it would piss off many of the existing fans, but in the end, what are we going to do? Sell our Wii Us and never play SSB4 again? We already own the game and the console. The odds are that we'll do the same thing we've always done: gripe about it for a while, then get used to it and buy whatever DLC characters they put in the game anyway (that's been the pattern and I'm sure Nintendo knows it).

Look at it another way: When Ryu was revealed, he had tons of supporters here. How many people here are actually genuinely excited about Cloud? I've not seen many, which confirms my suspicions: Cloud wasn't added to the game for US...

I think this reaction video says it all:

There's no excitement here. Only confusion.

I want to be wrong about this whole thing, as I'd much rather see obscure characters make it into the game instead of more popular 3rd party characters from other consoles, but I'm just not ruling it out at this point. Nintendo is all about the money and this would be a great way to bring in more of it...

 

[Y2Kay]

I... want to agree immediately, but some part of me kinda feels like all bets are off at this point.

Ryu was an iconic character from a franchise birthed on the SNES in which he at least appeared in many games that were on the SNES. He made sense.

There's really no justification for Cloud being in this game other than "he's popular".

the same could be said about pac tho

 

[A-money2121]

This sounds too accurate. I remember Cloud was the "Goku" character back when Brawl was announced.

It makes me wonder, though. With no support on this board for Cloud at all, and him apparently being popular enough to become the first announced character from the Ballot, it makes me wonder how much of an influence the Smash Community really had on the ballot...

There's no way he is a ballot character, my friend.

There were FAR more popular choices than Cloud, it wouldn't make sense for Nintendo to choose someone hardly popular compared to the likes of Inkling, K. Rool, Wolf, etc. Additionally, you need to remember that Nintendo started looking at the ballot a month ago. There is no way that the development team could have looked through the millions of votes to even consider a playable character in a short time span, let alone even MAKE a character within a month. So according to logic, Cloud was being developed BEFORE they looked at the votes. If I were you, I wouldn't be concerned I'm sure this special Smash live stream coming in December will revolve around the ballot. Just be happy that we get an extra - not to mention an uncalled for - character in Smash

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Pac-Man and Sonic are legendary, but not by being on Nintendo, yes. (although Sonic, nowadays...)

The two things that makes Cloud different is that:

-He comes from a series where the protagonists changes everytime.
-He comes from a playstation game.

Even Snake had a MGS remake on Gamecube, despite being heavily linked to the Playstation. Whereas Cloud only make somes cameos on Nintendo titles.

He definitely is a guest among the guests.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

I was dead wrong and glad I was now.

 

[ffdgh]

I'm wrong in the sense that I never legitimately considered this a possibility XD

 

[SneakyLink]

I was Wrong.
Very Wrong.
So Very Wrong.
Very Very Wrong.
W-R-O-N-G.
Did I mention I was wrong?

 

[S_B]

the same could be said about pac tho

Pac-Man is owned by the company that co-developed the game (Banco), though, and Pac-Man has been on tons of Nintendo consoles. And Namco and Nintendo are extremely buddy-buddy right now (unlike Nintendo and Square, who haven't really worked together since Mario Basketball, AFAIK).

Also, Pac-Man's popularity doesn't even hold a candle next to Cloud's. At one point, sure, he was huge, but the number of FF nerds out there absolutely dwarfs whatever Pac-Man fans are left.

Again, why Cloud? Because he's the most popular FF character. No other reason. He's the first character added to SSB who couldn't possibly be for the Nintendo fanbase because the Nintendo fanbase has no attachment to him (excluding people who also owned a PS back in the day, I mean).

 

[Morbi]

I will admit that I never saw this coming. BUT... I did believe that Cloud was more likely than Black Mage. So brownie points for me.

 

[ForteX]

I... want to agree immediately, but some part of me kinda feels like all bets are off at this point.

Ryu was an iconic character from a franchise birthed on the SNES in which he at least appeared in many games that were on the SNES. He made sense.

There's really no justification for Cloud being in this game other than "he's popular". He wasn't a main character of a FF game that was on a Nintendo console, and while FF was birthed on the NES, it's basically a different game with every sequel. It's not like Cloud is even a character that's from the same universe as any of the FF games on the S/NES.

Also, his moves look extremely similar to those of Ike/Shulk so I can't help but feel like there's going to be some overlap (though we'll ultimately have to wait and see how he plays).

Cloud was in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, Theaterhythm: Final Fantasy, and will without a doubt be a costume in this upcoming Final Fantasy game. He's been on Nintendo consoles, and were it not for Nintendo's strange obsession with continuing to use cartridges in the disk era, he would have been on a Nintendo console in his debut game. He's actually more justified in his inclusion than Snake was (and even still is), yet everyone begs for his return. Your argument is easily summed up in "I could have picked better", but don't feel bad, because most people's look exactly like yours.

Also, as far as his moveset is concerned? What we've seen seems to imply:

Up B: Kind of like Aether except you can choose whether or not you want to drop down. Similar to Ike only because describing it is easier when you say "Kind of like Aether". I guess it's similar to Shulk in the fact that it's a two part Up B? Bowser and Wii Fit Trainer are too similar because you can mash to get more distance I guess.

Side B?: Looks like dancing blade except it floats in place on hit? Totally unique to him.

Neutral B?: Far reaching projectile that covers a lot of real estate on the X axis. Very unique to a swordsman - very unique to Cloud.

Down B?: If Limit Break is a charging buff, then he's got Deep Breathing except with more dramatic and noticeable effects. Obviously the self buffing character is a concept pretty new to (official)Smash, and I'm glad to see it used on someone aside from Wii Fit Trainer.

Not going into his normal moves since specials are all people who complain about character similarities ever care about for some reason, and if you really care about how similar his Final Smash is to Great Aether... well God help you I guess.

Ergo, I kinda feel like we've arrived at a point when Nintendo isn't above trying to draw new players onto their consoles nearly any way they can. I can't ENTIRELY blame them, either...

Cloud will bring an audience to the Wii U/3DS that wouldn't have otherwise bought the game/console. That's undeniable.

I don't know what kind of person would make a +/-300 dollar investment to play as one character in a fighting game. It MIGHT bring people to Smash, but it will not sell consoles.

And then that raises the question of non-VG characters. Many people have joked about Goku, but yeah, the DBZ fanbase is HUGE. Or what about Batman or Captain America? Again, it sounds insane to us, but I'm sure the Nintendo execs have sat down and discussed the pros and cons of that kind of crossover.

At this point? Those are all video game characters and have all been on a Nintendo console with the possible exception of Captain America. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Marvel and DC characters are out of the question because of the legal stipulations involved, and how much money Nintendo would end up forking over just to put one character in Smash. Comic books are a huge business now concerned with nothing but the money, Batman's likeness isn't going to end up in just anything. I've personally yet to write out Goku or any JoJo character simply because Namco Bandai is in charge of those games (Capcom, back when JoJo was on the SNES).

I'd much rather see obscure characters make it into the game

Spoiler

I'm just in an argumentative mood tonight.

 

[Substitution]

I'll be honest with ya, not only did I not see it coming, I refused it. Whenever he popped up in posts I tried shot it down. I thought it was outright impossible. Maybe in PSABR, but certainly not in Smash Bros of all places. And I had that mentality for a good while now.

Then the Direct happened and my perception was shattered in mere minutes. And now here I am proudly wearing my dunce hat saying yes, I was wrong.

 

[S_B]

He's been on Nintendo consoles,

Yeah, in cameo form, in two (maybe three) games, and your point about how he "might have" been on a Nintendo console should've actually been a sticking point for Nintendo because Square (and numerous other third parties) jumping ship was the beginning of the end of Nintendo's "golden age".

He's actually more justified in his inclusion than Snake was (and even still is)

You mean aside from the fact that Konami and Nintendo worked together on a MGS game for the GC only one generation prior, and then Konami in return developed Mario DDR?

Snake has STARRED in a number of games on Nintendo consoles (including the first MGS game), not just done cameos.

Now, why Snake DOESN'T make sense has nothing to do with Snake as a character but how Hideo Kojima wouldn't shut up about how much he hated Nintendo, yet begged Sakurai to include Snake in SSBB. THAT makes no sense, I agree, but Snake's inclusion prerequisites were more than satisfied (if those are still a thing from Brawl).

Up B: Kind of like Aether except you can choose whether or not you want to drop down. Similar to Ike only because describing it is easier when you say "Kind of like Aether". I guess it's similar to Shulk in the fact that it's a two part Up B? Bowser and Wii Fit Trainer are too similar because you can mash to get more distance I guess.

You forgot about that it's similar to Mii Swordfighter's as well.

I don't know what kind of person would make a +/-300 dollar investment to play as one character in a fighting game. It MIGHT bring people to Smash, but it will not sell consoles.

It doesn't need to be the sole reason to buy a Wii U: it just has to add to the number of potential reasons to reach the "tipping point". Maybe some PS4 fans think SSB4, Zelda U, and Splatoon look interesting, but aren't quite convinced yet. Add in Cloud to SSB4 and suddenly a die-hard FF fan just acquired another huge reason to pick up the console.

At this point? Those are all video game characters and have all been on a Nintendo console with the possible exception of Captain America.

Going back to Sakurai's initial requirements for inclusion, he had said that a character would've needed to natively be a videogame character in order to be included. Then again, he's said about the poll that they'd include ANY character, if they were popular enough.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Marvel and DC characters are out of the question because of the legal stipulations involved, and how much money Nintendo would end up forking over just to put one character in Smash.

The licensing wouldn't be that bad, and Nintendo doesn't LOSE any money for including, say, Batman in the game. DC comics would just get a piece of the sales of Batman's DLC and his Amiibo.

I've personally yet to write out Goku or any JoJo character simply because Namco Bandai is in charge of those games (Capcom, back when JoJo was on the SNES).

I agree that Goku is HUGELY more likely, yes.

As to why I like obscure characters, maybe I should clarify: I'd love to see Professor Layton in the game, but that seems impossible if Nintendo is focusing on bringing primarily exceedingly popular characters into the game. As for "I could pick better", like I said, I'm neutral on Cloud as I neither like or dislike him (FF:Advent Children was pretty cool, and his win screen having the classing FF fanfare will be awesome, though).

It's just that I get the distinct impression that Cloud isn't here for us, the Nintendo fans.

Again, look at the general reaction to Cloud's inclusion: there was excitement around Ryu. Do you see even a fraction of that for Cloud?

Now, had it been Terra Branford, how many more people on these forums would be losing their minds over it right about now, given the sheer number of Nintendo fans who still say that FFVI was the best in the series?

 

[Yaki]

I always thought we'd get a Slime as our Square Enix rep, lol.

 

[S_B]

I always thought we'd get a Slime as our Square Enix rep, lol.

A moogle riding a chocobo would've been a better means of representing FF for Nintendo consoles, or Terra Branford from FFVI which was hugely popular on the SNES.

But again, they picked Cloud just because he was more popular.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

This is probably the least expected thing ever to happen for Smash next to Goku. This was Nintendo's ace, their dirty little secret.

GIVE ME A GODDAMN 3DS PORT THAT FIXES THE BUGS. OR AN NX VERSION FOR THE REMASTER. ANYTHING. DON'T JUST TEASE ME LIKE THIS YOU JERKS.

 

[Khao]

I wasn't even wrong. Cloud didn't even really cross my mind when thinking of new possible characters.

 

[SethTheMage]

I was totally wrong. I remember when I would laugh off any Cloud suggestion, and yet, here we are. I have to say, this has to be the biggest twist since Sonic was confirmed for Brawl. How did they manage to keep something this big a secret? Sakurai and his team must have really doubled down on squashing leaks.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I assumed it would be black mage.
I wanted Agnes

I got a surprise. And what a surprise it was.

A huge gaming icon?
check
Sword?
check
Unique moveset even though he has a sword and everyone knows swords have no moveset potential left?
check

Super hyped for him.

 

[smileMasky]

hell I'll buy him day one the only thing that "erks" me is that a lot of people now are going on about is "goku is next character confirmed" are standards not respected anymore? to be fair FF has been on nintendo first. Goku and other stupid characters like shrek will be the end of my respect to Super smash entirely. > like come on there are better characters to add than that stupid character bull"

 

[Sol0ke]

Theory: What if Cloud is in because of a deal Nintendo made with Square?

Geno confirmed.

 

[ForteX]

Yeah, in cameo form, in two (maybe three) games, and your point about how he "might have" been on a Nintendo console should've actually been a sticking point for Nintendo because Square (and numerous other third parties) jumping ship was the beginning of the end of Nintendo's "golden age".

Can't argue that the loss of third party support was a huge blow to Nintendo during that time period, but Capcom all but abandoned them during that time period too. Here we are in 2015 and they have two reps.

Snake has STARRED in a number of games on Nintendo consoles (including the first MGS game), not just done cameos.

Two at the time of Brawl's launch, since Kojima and Konami have basically disowned Snake's Revenge. Three total as of now.

Again, look at the general reaction to Cloud's inclusion: there was excitement around Ryu. Do you see even a fraction of that for Cloud?

Yeah, actually.

Now, had it been Terra Branford, how many more people on these forums would be losing their minds over it right about now, given the sheer number of Nintendo fans who still say that FFVI was the best in the series?

You nailed it, this is why it was Cloud. I'm big into video games. I have a lot of useless crap memorized. Granted, I'm not as big into Final Fantasy as I am into say, MegaMan, or Mother, but I know Cloud Strife. When you said "Terra Branford", I had to pause and think about who that was. Whether Final Fantasy VI was the best doesn't really matter - most people wouldn't call the first Fire Emblem the best, or even Sealed Sword the best, but we have Marth and Roy, and even further than that, we have Lucina. Smash is a popularity contest based on the characters, not on the games themselves. Whether you think this is a shame or not is up to you, but what I'm sensing here is a lot of salt that it wasn't Terra.

 

[MooseSmuggler]

The thought never crossed my mind, but that seems to be a common reaction. Now that he's here though, he seems like a fun character to play. I hope I'm right, because I'm definitely gonna try him out.

 

[Ura]

99.99999% of the Smash Community should be posting here given that all of those people were wrong.

Never the less, i'm hyped for Cloud in Smash. The December announcement can't come soon enough.