I think I have one of the most technical Robins in the world, how do I prove it?

Tiporosso

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#1
After watching over 20 Robin players style and strategies I can safely conclude that none of them use all of his tools consistently (and that's including tournament players like Jul and Athena).

I'm not saying I'm the "best" one necessarily, but I do have the flashiest Robin I've seen so far since day 1.

I had over 20,000 matches at Smash 4 with Robin, I'm an Solo Elite Robin (100% of use on QP) in this game since my first online matches, so this isn't like a "random" thing that happened overnight as I have worked for it for a long time. I have debated for the longest whether I should share my knowledge about the character or if I should horde all my knowledge and just show it against a pro player. However, the only real possibility of that happening is if I play against a known player in their arenas, but even then I don't know if I have the sufficient skill or time to showcase the usefulness of my discovered strats (about 2 or 3 of them are significant and could seriously help a better Robin player than me).

What would you do if you had already mastered secret strategies about your character that not even pros do consistently (or just don't know about them or dare to do them)?

Would you share your knowledge or would you just keep it for yourself and try to become the "best" officially?
 

Ez Quinn

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#2
I’m not sure. I’d probably go to my locals and use the character in a few tournaments, once you get out there, win a few tournaments, you’ll become known in your area. Then you don’t even have to “share” the information, but a dedicated player can watch and learn from you. Honestly people like learning everything they can for a character, and that includes watching and analyzing many play styles. People want to figure out what play style truly works best for their character. If you feel you’ve found out the perfect way to play robin, you need to get out there and capitalize on it. Others will watch and analyze you and determine whether or not they think this is how robin should be played. But either way you’ll bring something new to the table, and someone out there will try and play like you, cuz they thinks it’s the best way to play too.
In the end, people in this community like to tinker and experiment and learn. And you’ll be well known and well received when you bring more to the table than others.
 

link2702

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#3
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance

go to an actual offline tournament and prove it? In the grand scheme of things nobody cares about how you play online, you won't be viewed as the "most technical" or the best at anything, just as another kid that likes to brag about his online win %. In part because online play never truly emulates a real offline tournament setting, which is what matters in ranking players

also just an FYI....You're most likely not near as good or technical as you believe. Chances are the pro robins know everything you do about the character and more. They're not playing "flashy" because being flashy doesn't win you tournaments.

Also Jumping through the door declaring your supremacy on any subject is not exactly a way to get people to take you seriously. And in fact it's the perfect way to set yourself up for humiliation when you get destroyed in a match by a superior player, robin main or not.
 

Ez Quinn

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#4
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance

go to an actual offline tournament and prove it? In the grand scheme of things nobody cares about how you play online, you won't be viewed as the "most technical" or the best at anything, just as another kid that likes to brag about his online win %. In part because online play never truly emulates a real offline tournament setting, which is what matters in ranking players

also just an FYI....You're most likely not near as good or technical as you believe. Chances are the pro robins know everything you do about the character and more. They're not playing "flashy" because being flashy doesn't win you tournaments.

Also Jumping through the door declaring your supremacy on any subject is not exactly a way to get people to take you seriously. And in fact it's the perfect way to set yourself up for humiliation when you get destroyed in a match by a superior player, robin main or not.

I was going for something a little more encouraging but yeah you hit the nail on the head. There’s a reason jul and Athena are the top Robins rn, flashy doesn’t mean best. But I haven’t seen your play style. I won’t comment on it until I’ve seen it. But in the end go to locals. Get some experience (and some wins) then you can come talk about it
 

Tiporosso

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#5
I’m not sure. I’d probably go to my locals and use the character in a few tournaments, once you get out there, win a few tournaments, you’ll become known in your area. Then you don’t even have to “share” the information, but a dedicated player can watch and learn from you. Honestly people like learning everything they can for a character, and that includes watching and analyzing many play styles. People want to figure out what play style truly works best for their character. If you feel you’ve found out the perfect way to play robin, you need to get out there and capitalize on it. Others will watch and analyze you and determine whether or not they think this is how robin should be played. But either way you’ll bring something new to the table, and someone out there will try and play like you, cuz they thinks it’s the best way to play too.
In the end, people in this community like to tinker and experiment and learn. And you’ll be well known and well received when you bring more to the table than others.
But here's the thing, if I do that, not only will I have to invest money, but I'm also potentially risking a better player just copying the strats I found out over the years and taking credit for it; I haven't participated in locals ever, so it's not like they would care about doing something like that. I gotta be honest, I don't like the gaming community from around here in general; I'm not flying to the U.S. either, I don't have the resources for that. Not only that, but it may also take months or even years before my style/strategies are shown to a mass audience. I do see the advantage of having more months to perfect my strats; I doubt people will find out about them soon since from the looks of it every player is giving bad advice to the Robin players since day 1 even though it's a possibility.

I also kind of want to use the set-up I'm used to at my home, I tried playing some locals once or twice with the T.V.s they use and it felt very laggy to me and couldn't play properly; it's the only way I'll be comfortable playing the character at my highest capacity. Some of my strategies requires a lot of precision and they are high risk - low reward; but still game changing for any Robin player that manages to master them like I already did (kinda, I'm still working on even better consistency).
 

Ez Quinn

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#6
A better player can’t just immediately copy a play style, it’s almost like relearning the character

Also get out there on social media. Discord, Twitter, YouTube, show the world what you can do and let them judge.
 
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Tiporosso

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#7
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance

go to an actual offline tournament and prove it? In the grand scheme of things nobody cares about how you play online, you won't be viewed as the "most technical" or the best at anything, just as another kid that likes to brag about his online win %. In part because online play never truly emulates a real offline tournament setting, which is what matters in ranking players

also just an FYI....You're most likely not near as good or technical as you believe. Chances are the pro robins know everything you do about the character and more. They're not playing "flashy" because being flashy doesn't win you tournaments.

Also Jumping through the door declaring your supremacy on any subject is not exactly a way to get people to take you seriously. And in fact it's the perfect way to set yourself up for humiliation when you get destroyed in a match by a superior player, robin main or not.
i'm not "bragging" about my "online %", the strats I do work offline as well, probably even better. I even said I'm not the "best" Robin, but the flashiest one, I think I already found a few "pros" online and don't do as bad as you would think. The only reason I'm talking about the strats it's because they are actually helpful and Robin players don't do themselves a favor by not doing them.

To my credit, I'm a former top level/high level player and world record holder at different games if that accounts for something. So I have an actual history of making discoveries on videogames, it wouldn't be my first time doing the same for Smash as well.


Your post is the kind that makes me just want to horde the strats since it makes me believe there will be 0 benefit for me by revealing them.
 
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Tiporosso

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#8
A better player can’t just immediately copy a play style, it’s almost like relearning the character

Also get out there on social media. Discord, Twitter, YouTube, show the world what you can do and let them judge.
I think they can, at the very least, the strats can be copied. Personally I have done that in the past for different games (as in taking #1 spot after learning the strat that was used playing way less time) so I know it's possible.

I joined Smashboards for this, this was my idea of "getting out there", I don't use social medias asides from Youtube (you may watch some of my WRs there which should show I'm not just some "rando", I do have some gaming cred, not being arrogant, but it's the truth).
 
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Sean²

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#9
Showing your hand too early on in a tournament setting is asking to get downloaded and destroyed by a skilled opponent. Chances are the professional/sponsored Robin players may already know a lot of the strategies you are using, but they may not be the very best to use in every situation or every matchup.

If I were you, I'd make Twitter or Youtube videos showcasing your strategies and skills, maybe others will be able to benefit from them. Robin isn't exactly a highly thought of character, you should probably be doing what you can to attract others to play the character.
 

Avokha

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#10
i'm not "bragging" about my "online %", the strats I do work offline as well, probably even better. I even said I'm not the "best" Robin, but the flashiest one, I think I already found a few "pros" online and don't do as bad as you would think. The only reason I'm talking about the strats it's because they are actually helpful and Robin players don't do themselves a favor by not doing them.

To my credit, I'm a former top level/high level player and world record holder at different games if that accounts for something. So I have an actual history of making discoveries on videogames, it wouldn't be my first time doing the same for Smash as well.


Your post is the kind that makes me just want to horde the strats since it makes me believe there will be 0 benefit for my by revealing them.
Personally I am skeptical, but I am interested in these secret discoveries of yours...

Tell you what. Let's make a deal; Private message me just a few of these discoveries and I'll share them with the Robin Discord (that way only other robin players will see and know about them) and I'll be sure to credit you for them. This way we can know if your'e the real deal or not. Like I said, I am skeptical, but I'm really curious about the possibilities if you are indeed legitimate about this.
 

Tiporosso

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#11
Personally I am skeptical, but I am interested in these secret discoveries of yours...

Tell you what. Let's make a deal; Private message me just a few of these discoveries and I'll share them with the Robin Discord (that way only other robin players will see and know about them) and I'll be sure to credit you for them. This way we can know if your'e the real deal or not. Like I said, I am skeptical, but I'm really curious about the possibilities if you are indeed legitimate about this.

Here's what I'm willing to do, instead of just writing about it, I'm willing to play against any of you guys, I know that at the very least, Robin players may learn something new even if they are better than me.

Again, I'm NOT claiming to be the "best" Robin, but I do a lot of stuff you don't see regularly with Robin players.

My Friend code is: 4802 5538 4697

You can save the replays and if you see anything interesting, then you can ask me about it. Do tell me when you want to play since I like to disconnect my computer and reset my router before playing as to prevent lag as much as possible.
 

Avokha

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#12
Here's what I'm willing to do, instead of just writing about it, I'm willing to play against any of you guys, I know that at the very least, Robin players may learn something new even if they are better than me.

Again, I'm NOT claiming to be the "best" Robin, but I do a lot of stuff you don't see regularly with Robin players.

My Friend code is: 4802 5538 4697

You can save the replays and if you see anything interesting, then you can ask me about it. Do tell me when you want to play since I like to disconnect my computer and reset my router before playing as to prevent lag as much as possible.
I'm at work atm, but I'm willing to set aside a time to play later today. What's your timezone?
 
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Tiporosso

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#13
I'm at work atm, but I'm willing to set aside a time to play later today. What's your timezone?
Right now it's 10:38 a.m. If no one can play at the moment, I'll be able to play today again after 8 - 9 p.m. for a few hours. I have some stuff to do during the day but I'll be able to play anyone interested after that time.
 
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Avokha

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#14
Right now it's 10:38 a.m. If no one can play at the moment, I'll be able to play today again after 8 - 9 p.m. for a few hours. I have some stuff to do during the day but I'll be able to play anyone interested after that time.
Perfect, a one hour timezone difference then. I'm us central time, so for me it's about 9:45 AM, tonight sounds good then! For me it'll be between 7-8 PM, all the time in the world.
 

Xquirtle

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#15
If you're not a pro player competing for actual first place finishes, then I don't see the value in not sharing tech that you learn with your character. It would actually be a good way to get known within the Robin community if you care about that.. and it really is a disservice to the character as a whole to not help advance HER spot in the meta. I'd think that basically nobody is paying attention to Robin tech displays anyway, so I just don't see how it would end up affecting you.
 

Tiporosso

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#16
If you're not a pro player competing for actual first place finishes, then I don't see the value in not sharing tech that you learn with your character. It would actually be a good way to get known within the Robin community if you care about that.. and it really is a disservice to the character as a whole to not help advance HER spot in the meta. I'd think that basically nobody is paying attention to Robin tech displays anyway, so I just don't see how it would end up affecting you.

Even if I'm not competing, I still invested a lot of time into Smash 4 which allowed me to develop the style/strats a lot easier in Smash Ultimate. I always had hope since Smash 4 that rankings would be a thing since I'm a competitive player by heart and like games where there's not an ambiguous top. I still have hope for a serious ranked system which may go away after E3 since I will lose all hope after that date assuming they don't make GSP actually a relevant thing or at the very least give some more recognition to the players that worked to get to a high level. A top 10 for each individual character comes to mind or something of the like, many top players have complained about the anti-pro online system, so it increases my hopes just by a little bit since their youtube videos are fairly popular (ex: Zero and Leffen).

One of the reasons I use Robin is because of lack of players that actually know how to play him, it gives me satisfaction showing people in play some of the stuff Robin can do specially to players that think he's trash (I mean, he still kind of is, but some of his "fun" stuff may make him look stronger than he really is). At the end of the day, I can see some importance in sharing some knowledge that may help players, but if they don't actually see a player performing them with consistency it will simply be deemed as "not useful because of lack of consistency even though there's someone out there that claims that can actually do it". If someone shows consistency in doing a strategy and a tourney player choose not do it because of the strat "not being the most consistent", that doesn't mean the strategy is not useful, a player can always win with 1 or 2 moves if he's better than the other player and it could also mean that particular player succumbed to pressure instead of trusting the mathematical harmony of good practiced tech that could had gotten that player out of nasty situations.
 

link2702

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#17
i'm not "bragging" about my "online %", the strats I do work offline as well, probably even better. I even said I'm not the "best" Robin, but the flashiest one, I think I already found a few "pros" online and don't do as bad as you would think. The only reason I'm talking about the strats it's because they are actually helpful and Robin players don't do themselves a favor by not doing them.

To my credit, I'm a former top level/high level player and world record holder at different games if that accounts for something. So I have an actual history of making discoveries on videogames, it wouldn't be my first time doing the same for Smash as well.


Your post is the kind that makes me just want to horde the strats since it makes me believe there will be 0 benefit for me by revealing them.
I could care less since I don’t main robin. I highly doubt you’ve discovered anything “special” that hasn’t been known now for awhile. Your attempts at making yourself sound better than you really are just come off as arrogant and ignorant.

Anyway I’m done with the topic. You can take my advice and be a bit more humble and less arrogant. Or don’t. Doesn’t matter to me either way.

*ignored*
 
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Xquirtle

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#18
Even if I'm not competing, I still invested a lot of time into Smash 4 which allowed me to develop the style/strats a lot easier in Smash Ultimate. I always had hope since Smash 4 that rankings would be a thing since I'm a competitive player by heart and like games where there's not an ambiguous top. I still have hope for a serious ranked system which may go away after E3 since I will lose all hope after that date assuming they don't make GSP actually a relevant thing or at the very least give some more recognition to the players that worked to get to a high level. A top 10 for each individual character comes to mind or something of the like, many top players have complained about the anti-pro online system, so it increases my hopes just by a little bit since their youtube videos are fairly popular (ex: Zero and Leffen).

One of the reasons I use Robin is because of lack of players that actually know how to play him, it gives me satisfaction showing people in play some of the stuff Robin can do specially to players that think he's trash (I mean, he still kind of is, but some of his "fun" stuff may make him look stronger than he really is). At the end of the day, I can see some importance in sharing some knowledge that may help players, but if they don't actually see a player performing them with consistency it will simply be deemed as "not useful because of lack of consistency even though there's someone out there that claims that can actually do it". If someone shows consistency in doing a strategy and a tourney player choose not do it because of the strat "not being the most consistent", that doesn't mean the strategy is not useful, a player can always win with 1 or 2 moves if he's better than the other player and it could also mean that particular player succumbed to pressure instead of trusting the mathematical harmony of good practiced tech that could had gotten that player out of nasty situations.
I think good players will immediately recognize the usefulness. It just sounds like you want to share it, and if thats the true, then you should do so without worrying about who sees it. I'd just make the case that only the most ultra competitive people deep in the competitive scene would have any value in hiding their tech. Like Hbox is a great example, where people have no way to prepare for him and he purposefully denies them practice.
 

Tiporosso

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#19
I could care less since I don’t main robin. I highly doubt you’ve discovered anything “special” that hasn’t been known now for awhile. Your attempts at making yourself sound better than you really are just come off as arrogant and ignorant.

Anyway I’m done with the topic. You can take my advice and be a bit more humble and less arrogant. Or don’t. Doesn’t matter to me either way.

*ignored*
I think you are under the impression that I care about your IRL opinion about myself. Your worse nightmare would be me telling the truth because I'm not giving you a single game ever. Matter of fact, block me or w/e, I won't even speak to you again.
 

Tiporosso

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#20
I think good players will immediately recognize the usefulness. It just sounds like you want to share it, and if thats the true, then you should do so without worrying about who sees it. I'd just make the case that only the most ultra competitive people deep in the competitive scene would have any value in hiding their tech. Like Hbox is a great example, where people have no way to prepare for him and he purposefully denies them practice.
I kind of wanted to, but just look at the reaction of some of the people here. Is that the kind of people I am trying to help?

A part of me prefer my strats to die in obscurity. I'll probably just delete this topic since it's pointless trying to help such passive-aggressive individuals. Can anyone blame me for not liking the Smash community in general?

Remember, I'm the arrogant one because I'm trying to teach people stuff they don't know. Thinking you already know everything about a character 4 months after the game came out, not arrogant at all. Thanks everyone for your passive-aggressiveness guys, really appreciate it a lot, made my choice clearer for me.
 
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Zareidriel

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#21
Don't let one negative person (or two? I dont know) ruin your thread. Everyone is being a bit silly. I'm usually a pretty neutral, logical fellow with a bit of experience in the Robinverse (I so happen to have created the most extensive Robin guide ever written) so I'll tell you what I think based on my own deductions and experience.

There is an extremely high percentage chance that every technique you know is already known by someone else, and is perhaps being shared as we speak. In my time in the Smash community around since the year 2000 I have seen hundreds of people believe they have discovered new or secret techniques. Myself included, several times. However what happens nine times out of ten, someone posts a twitter clip or youtube link of some Japanese guy or whoever doing the move five months ago. Or a similar tech has been in the game since Brawl. Or etc, etc.

Not saying that is what happened in particular here, but there is a high chance. High level Robin players are rarely good sources to find experimental and interesting techs and moves, so you'll find none there. You'll have to look at the more esoteric Robin sources (such as Twitter, and the Robin Discord) to find clips of new and secret techs.

However, if you have discovered some new stuff, great! We love sharing Robin's many tactical options, and adding more to the pile is always fun. We would definitely appreciate if you shared just in case your techniques are indeed new.

Now, should you hoard it, or share it with the world? As Street Fighter champion Daigo suggests in his book, it's always better to spill the beans and let your allies and opponents know every possible move and trick you have (at least, not during a tournament). That way, when the counterplay to your technique is discovered, you know how to deal with it.
 

YaraNooki

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Messages
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#22
I feel like I shouldn’t revive this thread, but it’s a decent topic.

“Go to locals, get featured on some tourney vods, get your name out there, etc.” Smash is a fighting game with a fighting game community. You prove yourself by beating other people in front of an online or offline audience and doing whatever you have to make it the next biggest stage with better opponents. There’s a regional coming up but you can’t afford to fly or drive? Buy a bus ticket or carpool. Your bracket is going late? Be ready to call in sick tomorrow. You’ve clearly invested a lot of time into Robin, but you’ll need to be ready to spend that $$ if you want a chance to compete against the best.

As far as people stealing your tech goes... I don’t think that’s a make or break for your long-term success. Everyone has seen the Jul videos, yet as far as I know I haven’t seen anyone replicate his playstyle or his results as well as him. Similarly, everyone has seen Dath’s iconic slow, low-tech playstyle (he barely fast falls half the time), yet he’s the only Robin to consistently make Grand Finals in his area. Tech - even advanced tech - is just another tool in your kit. You still need fundamentals and match up experience along with tournament specific strategies (counterpicking characters/stages, conserving reads/tech for set-deciding moments) and resilience against tournament-specific pressures (fatigue, nerves, finding your damn set up when the TOs have no idea what they’re doing, etc.)

If your Robin is truly as incredible as I hope it is, your unique tech may be what skyrockets your popularity and lets you get those showmatches (offline or on-stream) against the big names you want to prove yourself against. Even if you don’t get great tournament results, discovering and explaining unique-character specific tech may still make you a prominent online figure like Captain L for Pichu or Juggleboy for Kirby. IMO, you’ve already put the time and effort into unlocking Robin’s potential, so you should be looking to capitalize on your findings however you can.

Good luck.
 
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Tiporosso

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#23
I feel like I shouldn’t revive this thread, but it’s a decent topic.

“Go to locals, get featured on some tourney vods, get your name out there, etc.” Smash is a fighting game with a fighting game community. You prove yourself by beating other people in front of an online or offline audience and doing whatever you have to make it the next biggest stage with better opponents. There’s a regional coming up but you can’t afford to fly or drive? Buy a bus ticket or carpool. Your bracket is going late? Be ready to call in sick tomorrow. You’ve clearly invested a lot of time into Robin, but you’ll need to be ready to spend that $$ if you want a chance to compete against the best.

As far as people stealing your tech goes... I don’t think that’s a make or break for your long-term success. Everyone has seen the Jul videos, yet as far as I know I haven’t seen anyone replicate his playstyle or his results as well as him. Similarly, everyone has seen Dath’s iconic slow, low-tech playstyle (he barely fast falls half the time), yet he’s the only Robin to consistently make Grand Finals in his area. Tech - even advanced tech - is just another tool in your kit. You still need fundamentals and match up experience along with tournament specific strategies (counterpicking characters/stages, conserving reads/tech for set-deciding moments) and resilience against tournament-specific pressures (fatigue, nerves, finding your damn set up when the TOs have no idea what they’re doing, etc.)

If your Robin is truly as incredible as I hope it is, your unique tech may be what skyrockets your popularity and lets you get those showmatches (offline or on-stream) against the big names you want to prove yourself against. Even if you don’t get great tournament results, discovering and explaining unique-character specific tech may still make you a prominent online figure like Captain L for Pichu or Juggleboy for Kirby. IMO, you’ve already put the time and effort into unlocking Robin’s potential, so you should be looking to capitalize on your findings however you can.

Good luck.
This may probably be my last message on this site and probably Smash related forums ever again, I thought about asking a mod to erase this topic but I think that's not possible on these forums and I really want to get over Smash Ultimate as I lost most of my interest for the game already.

Anyway YaraNooki, Thanks for everything!, however I think I'm done trying to play seriously again. The feedback I got across different forums just made me want to quit the game for good (tons of dislikes on my youtube videos, ****posting, IRL threats, etc). I'm trash at this game, w/e, only played for about 300 hours and like 100 of those were goofing around on World of Light and Arcade. I REFUSE to depend to the lazy standing still style most of those "pro" Robin players use, so far I have been impressed exactly 0 times by every Robin player I've seen so far, there's literally nothing they do that I can't do and that lazy style works when you are better than your opponent and can read him, but won't do much once you fight someone of your skill or above.

If anyone is still morbidly curious about seeing me play you may watch the following streams but please do take into consideration my 0 local and tournament experience (I invested some money and time for this if that is worth something):

Armada - 17 days ago @ 56 min mark
Fatality - 4 days ago @ 2:49 mark
Samsora - 3 days ago @ 3:05 mark

I also fought against Tweek (1 game), NairoMK (2 games) and Keitaro (3 games), but they were on Elite Smash so Idk if those were on stream or not. I'm still lacking fundamentals and my brain and body still not acting as a single unit at all times as I choke a lot. If I practiced a few hundreds hours more maybe I could prove my point better but I doubt I'll invest that much more time in this game as there has mostly been negatives experiences for me.
 
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