I suck at this game. No matter what...

Domah

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
5
#1
Hey guys.
I've always loved smash games and for ultimate me and my friends are trying to be at a competitive level (for local events/tournaments).

So we bought the game day one and are training and trying to get better and better.

My problem is I suck so hard at this game. No matter what I do. I suck. We started at the same level and since few weeks, all my friends are destroying me. I can't do **** Vs them now.

In local tournaments, I always get 0-2 and cya. In local events and free play session, I'm getting destroyed on and on and on.
The deal is simple. I have never won a single game in tournament or in free play session. (Expect when my opponent take a random troll pick and try to beat me with stupid plays).

I've watched many times tutorial video on YouTube (IzawSmash, zero, tournament stream etc...) Spend dozen of hours in training mode each week. Plays online a lot. Plays local a lot and getting as much advices as possible.

Me and my friend have been training a lot together too. But now they destroy me, they plays less and less with me and out sessions are now awkwards because they stomp me without even trying.

They are starting to getting some results but I don't. It's very, very frustrating and I'm at a point where I don't know what to do.

I really love playing smash but every session are now tedious and ends the same way :
I suck, I see my mistakes, but I keep doing them and loosing on and on and on and on.

0-2 at every tournament ? Check
Loosing everything in free local play session ? Check.
Getting stomped in arena mode ? Check.
Loosing online Vs ****** spamming playstyle ? Check
Still not in elite smash ? Check
Seeing all my friends getting better and better to a point I can't do a **** Vs them ? Check


What can I do ? I am cursed or what ? Is my destiny to be the worst player of smash on this earth ?
 

Oneiros5321

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
115
#2
Have you tried picking another character as main?
Maybe your character just doesn't suit you well to learn the game.

Also how are you practicing? I can't tell what mechanics you've practice and what you haven't so it's going to be a little of a guess work here but I'd say, even before learning combos or anything, you should practice moving.

A good way to, let's say, do 20 short hop > fast fall in a row while focusing, and then repeat it but while focusing on something else. Like read a mange or watch a video at the same time. The point of doing that is for it to become sort of a second nature so you can focus on your opponent during a match.

It would be useful if you could provide a replay so people in the forum can tell you what you're doing wrong and what you're doing right.

In the meantime, I'm going to say things I see a lot of people online doing that are, in my opinion, really bad.

-Don't roll too much. Rolling should be used to surprise your opponent or escape a tough situation. If you use it all the time, you are sure to be punished for it
-Only use your smash attacks as a kill move. There's no point in using them at low percent as even if you hit, first it's not going to kill and second you won't be able to follow up on anything and might even get punished for it.
-Take your time. Dash dancing all the time is not really efficient. It might confuses your opponent but it might also confuses yourself as well. Sometimes, a lot of times actually, taking a step back and letting the opponent do his stuff is the best thing to do.
-Don't focus on getting in Elite Smash. You'll learn a lot more by re-matching someone who's beating you and losing all your rank than on wanting to get there at all cost.

Sorry if I'm missing the point or if you're already doing all those things. If you link a replay of one of your game, I'm sure a lot of people will be able to help point out what's wrong with your play and it will be much more efficient than the guess work I'm doing :upsidedown:
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,781
Location
California
Switch FC
SW-5361-1490-2247
#3
What kind of friends are those who won't play with you as often as they did before improving? Unless they're busy outside of playing video games, I wouldn't say they're reliable or helpful. I'm not sure what it is you're doing, since you're not saying what your problems are, so I can't help you with the specifics.
 

kirby3021

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Messages
239
#5
One thing that has really helped my gameplay is watching my opponent and actively thinking about what they're doing. It takes a lot of practice, but it helps predict what opponents are doing.

As a side note, I have a tough time playing Cloud. I am trying to learn him now, but have a much harder time winning with him than my other two mains (Mewtwo and Ridley). I think that may be because on average, people tend to have more matchup experience versus Cloud.
 

Mischiiii

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
117
Location
Germany (Hessen)
#6
I think the problem is 75% mindset and 25% lack of talent.

First let’s talk about talent. Some people will pick up on new things faster than others. So maybe your friends are just a little bit more talented when it comea to games. But that’s nothing a little bit more dedication can’t fix.

Now on to the mindset. This is probably easier said than done. In smash i feel it’s easy to get into a downward spiral. If you lose 2-3 times in a row you stop being focused and thinking “i will lose anyway”. And after some time that’s what you think during the first game and you will almost always lose. See every game as a lesson and look for your mistakes and try to correct them. Playing with better people is the best way to improve. Also maybe ask your friends to help you find your mistakes. Or post a replay in this thread.
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
53
Location
Cambridge, MA
Switch FC
SW-7958-8584-9570
#7
Your persistence is admirable, Domah. Most players in your position would simply give up, and I commend you for sticking with the game you love. If you manage to get your feet off the ground, that attitude could make you a fierce competitor someday.

However, your negativity might be a bigger obstacle than you realize. Dwelling on your failures and going into matches with the expectation of losing is very unhealthy, because it prevents you from being able to use your losses as a meaningful learning experience.

As Mischiiii said, you probably feel like your losses are inevitable sometimes. This is not a constructive mentality; what you need to do is have enough confidence in yourself to consider that maybe it's not as simple as you sucking. And although this might sound like a terribly simple solution, it's so important and universally applicable that I will quote it:
See every game as a lesson and look for your mistakes and try to correct them.
But as I mentioned, this takes confidence, which is something you seem to be struggling with. Therein lies the conundrum: if you're convinced that you suck, and that mentality is preventing you from improving, how could you possibly become confident enough to dig deeper than "I just suck at this game" and analyze your matches objectively?

The answer is that confidence must come from elsewhere in your life. Some people are fortunate enough to have supportive friends, fulfilling jobs, or healthy relationships that they can draw on for emotional strength, and if you can use one or more of those things, that's great. But it's also possible to find courage within yourself: all you really need is enough belief in your value as a person to feel that you have what it takes to improve. Once you find that belief, you'll be able to learn from your mistakes, and slowly become more confident as you kick your bad habits. This will kickstart a process of iterative growth, and as you continue to improve, it will become less about facing your own demons and more about outplaying your opponents. You don't need to convince yourself that you're any good at the game; just give yourself enough credit to think critically about why you're not.

I hope this helps. Feel free to friend me if you'd like some practice online.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
28
#8
Things to try (some have already been mentioned):

-Try a new character. Some are easier than others, so start with simpler characters and go to a more complex one later if you wish. Heavies tend to be beginner friendly. Fast characters can be hard to control. Also, having a reliable projectile can be useful, so long as you don't spam too much. Are you SDing a lot? Pick someone with good recovery.
-Save replays and watch them to see what you're doing wrong. Even post them here so more experienced people can give you advice.
-You mentioned watching tutorials/guides; are you watching advanced combo videos or more beginner oriented videos? Definitely go with the beginner stuff.
-Stick with the fundamentals. Don't worry about advanced combos or fancy techs or edge-guarding for now.
-Change up your playstyle. You might be spamming smash attacks or dash attacks or projectiles or jumping in a predictable manner. This is one of the hardest things to learn, or rather unlearn. Many people fall into a predictable pattern and don't realize it, making it easy for opponents to be a step ahead of everything you do. This is something watching replays can reveal.

Edit: Also, don't always do get up attacks at the ledge or from the ground, this is another beginner mistake. Mix it up, do a roll or empty get up, or drop down to fair from the ledge.
 
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Joined
Nov 24, 2016
Messages
52
#9
Don't beat yourself up about it, there's nothing to gain from doing that.

There's always a way around the problem you're having with the game. All you need to do is keep at it, study more of the game's mechanic, find a character that suits your playstyle, learn to utilize their strengths and work around their weaknesses, try doing things outside your comfort zone, and most importantly, keep practicing.

Take breaks too. There's always another day to improve.
 

BTHK_Nydus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
10
#10
General advice:
-Try other characters. Others have said it because maybe you should switch, but i'll add that even if you don't want to switch it can help with matchups. I feel like for me, coming from melee, I had to try some of the characters just to better understand their mechanics and improve my counterplay against them. Though I will say that Cloud is pretty gimpable, so if that's a big problem for you, a character switch might help you some.
-Watch matches. I follow a ton of streams and watch tons of matches, catching any matches with my main or counterpicks just so I can get some free "matchup experience" on a spare screen while doing homework.
-Turn on tilt stick and don't use smashes except to kill, and even then rarely. Someone said it above, but you really shouldn't be using them much, especially if you struggle to get good reads.
-Just keep playing. When you play with friends/friendlies, make sure to play sets for practice. Adds a bit more pressure. Especially if you don't have a sports background, learning to play under pressure can be a big part of it.

Some specific tech suggestions (that might be wrong, but without more info it's hard to say):
-Make sure you know what's safe on shield, and how much spacing you need for it. It's soooo critical.
-Don't be afraid to edge guard, and even go off stage. If you're down (and I do this too) it's easy to tighten up and not want to risk going offstage, but if you're outclassed that's the time when it's most critical to aggressively edge guard. You can get outplayed 80% of a match and still win off of essentially 1 good gimp and a couple neutral wins.

Also, you mention you haven't made it to Elite Smash yet, but are you close? While GSP isn't a direct indicator, if you're at like +3million that's different than if you're at like 500k

Add a replay and we'll see what we can do to help!
 
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Domah

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
5
#11
Thanks guys for all of your supportive messages.
Currently I'm around 3.4m gsp but that thing varies way too much to be a reliable way to estimate a level... I can go down to less than 1m and 3 win later I'mback at 3m +.

I've tried all the cast with few game but I prefer playing with cloud because I like sword character and I'm more comfy with him. I'll probably try corrin one day but I want to be better with cloud first.

Imo my biggest problem is my spacing, Vs fast and combo character it's really hard because a single mistake can be a instant stock. My other problem is I have a hard time dealing with cheesy tactics. I can deal with an average dude, but when I face a spammer like the Belmont (spam and run tech), ridley (side B and fireballs) or for example Ganon with down B and side B spamming into random smash.

I'm having trouble with my connection atm so I don't play online. I'll post some replay once it's fixed.
 
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Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
28
#12
Imo my biggest problem is my spacing, Vs fast and combo character it's really hard because a single mistake can be a instant stock. My other problem is I have a hard time dealing with cheesy tactics. I can deal with an average dude, but when I face a spammer like the Belmont (spam and run tech), ridley (side B and fireballs) or for example Ganon with down B and side B spamming into random smash.
Practice short hop aerials while mixing up with full hops. Don't just be aggressive with them either; mix up between jumping straight up and down nairs (can bait them into dashing and getting hit with the second nair) and retreating aerials. Also mix up with empty hops. This will make you a more difficult target and make it harder to hit you with projectiles or Ridley side B/gannon down b because you are jumping so often (and unpredictably), you will inadvertently dodge many of these attacks (with practice you will be doing this consciously).

For cheesy tactics ya just gotta be patient. A lot of times you will think you have an opening but you really don't. Practice the running instant shield : When dashing, make sure you hold forward on the control stick before pressing shield, then release the control stick to neutral before unshielding [otherwise you will buffer a roll]. Without holding forward on the control stick, it takes significantly longer for your shield to pop up out of dash.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
30
Switch FC
SW-2558-6837-3970
#14
Watch some tournament gameplay, videos by ZeRo(Best Smash players). And learn to punish to what the opponent wants to do.
 

Oneiros5321

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
115
#15
Watch some tournament gameplay, videos by ZeRo(Best Smash players). And learn to punish to what the opponent wants to do.
I would add to that, don't limit yourself at watching the very best players. There are YouTubers out there who might not have the same level but are much better at teaching. I think Izaw or Jtails for example.
 

saiyan.

Feint - Snake Eyes
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
137
Location
Medical Mechanica
#16
The more you play the better you will get, obvious but this is true. Even when you feel like progress is stagnant and you feel like your not getting any better you are. Muscle memory, reads, punishes, recoveries, combos, etc. It will eventually all just click, check out locals in your area and participate in LANs.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,522
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
#17
This is an easy one to answer. I’m ignoring all other replies except the OP, not trying to parrot anyone else.

You focus too much on others’ success in comparison to your own failures. You seem to be focused on winning, your attitude speaks volumes on this - even though you mentioned trying to learn, you don’t seem to be focusing on it correctly. Your friends are adapting to you and you are stuck on old habits, so you admittedly keep making the same mistakes even after noticing them. This is an issue.

I’ve been down that road and you just have to break that mentality, or you will continue to fail and you’ll eventually give up.

Save replays for when you lose, then watch them later. Play the same person over and over again using the same characters until you see progress. ****ing ask whomever is wrecking you what you’re doing wrong and if they’re not a total jizzrag they’ll tell you. You have to play to learn, not to win.
 

Baby_Sneak

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
2,022
Location
Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
#18
Hey guys.
I've always loved smash games and for ultimate me and my friends are trying to be at a competitive level (for local events/tournaments).

So we bought the game day one and are training and trying to get better and better.

My problem is I suck so hard at this game. No matter what I do. I suck. We started at the same level and since few weeks, all my friends are destroying me. I can't do **** Vs them now.

In local tournaments, I always get 0-2 and cya. In local events and free play session, I'm getting destroyed on and on and on.
The deal is simple. I have never won a single game in tournament or in free play session. (Expect when my opponent take a random troll pick and try to beat me with stupid plays).

I've watched many times tutorial video on YouTube (IzawSmash, zero, tournament stream etc...) Spend dozen of hours in training mode each week. Plays online a lot. Plays local a lot and getting as much advices as possible.

Me and my friend have been training a lot together too. But now they destroy me, they plays less and less with me and out sessions are now awkwards because they stomp me without even trying.

They are starting to getting some results but I don't. It's very, very frustrating and I'm at a point where I don't know what to do.

I really love playing smash but every session are now tedious and ends the same way :
I suck, I see my mistakes, but I keep doing them and loosing on and on and on and on.

0-2 at every tournament ? Check
Loosing everything in free local play session ? Check.
Getting stomped in arena mode ? Check.
Loosing online Vs ****** spamming playstyle ? Check
Still not in elite smash ? Check
Seeing all my friends getting better and better to a point I can't do a **** Vs them ? Check


What can I do ? I am cursed or what ? Is my destiny to be the worst player of smash on this earth ?
Who do you main? Do you know what the neutral game is? Do you know how to play neutral with your main?
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
175
#19
-Don't focus on getting in Elite Smash. You'll learn a lot more by re-matching someone who's beating you and losing all your rank than on wanting to get there at all cost.
This is what I've started doing for my learning. I'm just starting out, and faced a Jigglypuff that camped just out of my reach and punished all the whiffs from my reckless aggression. My K. Rool got his fat *** kicked.

But, crucially, I knew why I was losing, and just kept replaying him. I lost the first 3-4 times in a row, but won the last 3 games in a row before I had to call it quits. If I lose (as long as it wasn't stupid laggy bull****), I like replaying them to try and learn how to adjust my behavior.
 
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Domah

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
5
#20
I know what neutral is, I've watched every IzawSmash's videos and some others too.
I don't find zero's being very good because he doesn't really explain the game, he just play and show some tips/combo without considering how hard they are and what they require to do consistently.


I main cloud atm but I think I'll stop playing him. He's way to slow and has too much lags on his attacks. He's getting comboed too easily and it's hard to recover on the stage.
I don't even know why people still put him at high Tier because I don't see how he can be there.

He's slow, he has a lot a lags, a bad recovery, he can hardly kill without the limit and with the limit you can avoid it easily by just plying defensively for 15 sec. He has a nice range but his moves are so slow that you can be punished for wathever you do if you don't space perfectly every moves. And if you get comboed and send to the sky, it's really hard to recover from here because he's so slow that you can't contest or trade, you will lose instantly 90%+ of the trades and his "defensives" moves like down air or neutral air have really small hitbox, even smaller than the animation let suppose it...

I love cloud but in smash ultimate he just sucks and he's barely playable imo...

I'm trying to switch on corrin who seems better in every aspect. I'll try to play with my friends and take some replays to show you guys. I'll probably play this week end too but I'm not sure. If I do, I'll take some more replay.

This is an easy one to answer. I’m ignoring all other replies except the OP, not trying to parrot anyone else.

You focus too much on others’ success in comparison to your own failures. You seem to be focused on winning, your attitude speaks volumes on this - even though you mentioned trying to learn, you don’t seem to be focusing on it correctly. Your friends are adapting to you and you are stuck on old habits, so you admittedly keep making the same mistakes even after noticing them. This is an issue.

I’ve been down that road and you just have to break that mentality, or you will continue to fail and you’ll eventually give up.

Save replays for when you lose, then watch them later. Play the same person over and over again using the same characters until you see progress. ****ing ask whomever is wrecking you what you’re doing wrong and if they’re not a total jizzrag they’ll tell you. You have to play to learn, not to win.

The problem is not winning or losing.
I know if I want to improve I'm gonna loose a lot. It's a part of the game.
My problem is after 100h + of training mode, online arena training sessions, local training sessions + hours and hours of videos, replay, game analysis etc... and then when I go somewhere to play for the win. I loose miserably.

It's very frustrating to invest a lot of effort, time and patience for no results.

I know the mistake I make but it's very hard to beat bad habits. It takes a lot of time. I don't say I just keep playing bad and that's it but it's just very hard to learn at this point.

For example, I didn't use grab. Now I'm focusing of grabing more. But I have the bad habits of never use the grab and it takes me a lot of efforts to think about the grab command and use it in a battle. So when I'm in a situation where I should grab but I use a jab or a tilt instead I'm like "damn I should'very grab but I've used ftilt and I'm getting punished for it". So yeah I guess I need more hours of playing and training.

I think I'm alors frustrated because I feel like my main, Cloud, is pretty bad and very limited. It limits my options and what I can do with him. (See my post above).

I'm currently trying to find an other main. Probably going to corrin but I need more practice.
 

Baby_Sneak

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
2,022
Location
Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
#21
I know what neutral is, I've watched every IzawSmash's videos and some others too.
I don't find zero's being very good because he doesn't really explain the game, he just play and show some tips/combo without considering how hard they are and what they require to do consistently.


I main cloud atm but I think I'll stop playing him. He's way to slow and has too much lags on his attacks. He's getting comboed too easily and it's hard to recover on the stage.
I don't even know why people still put him at high Tier because I don't see how he can be there.

He's slow, he has a lot a lags, a bad recovery, he can hardly kill without the limit and with the limit you can avoid it easily by just plying defensively for 15 sec. He has a nice range but his moves are so slow that you can be punished for wathever you do if you don't space perfectly every moves. And if you get comboed and send to the sky, it's really hard to recover from here because he's so slow that you can't contest or trade, you will lose instantly 90%+ of the trades and his "defensives" moves like down air or neutral air have really small hitbox, even smaller than the animation let suppose it...

I love cloud but in smash ultimate he just sucks and he's barely playable imo...

I'm trying to switch on corrin who seems better in every aspect. I'll try to play with my friends and take some replays to show you guys. I'll probably play this week end too but I'm not sure. If I do, I'll take some more replay.
The problem is not winning or losing.
I know if I want to improve I'm gonna loose a lot. It's a part of the game.
My problem is after 100h + of training mode, online arena training sessions, local training sessions + hours and hours of videos, replay, game analysis etc... and then when I go somewhere to play for the win. I loose miserably.

It's very frustrating to invest a lot of effort, time and patience for no results.

I know the mistake I make but it's very hard to beat bad habits. It takes a lot of time. I don't say I just keep playing bad and that's it but it's just very hard to learn at this point.

For example, I didn't use grab. Now I'm focusing of grabing more. But I have the bad habits of never use the grab and it takes me a lot of efforts to think about the grab command and use it in a battle. So when I'm in a situation where I should grab but I use a jab or a tilt instead I'm like "damn I should'very grab but I've used ftilt and I'm getting punished for it". So yeah I guess I need more hours of playing and training.

I think I'm alors frustrated because I feel like my main, Cloud, is pretty bad and very limited. It limits my options and what I can do with him. (See my post above).

I'm currently trying to find an other main. Probably going to corrin but I need more practice.

I doubt cloud is that bad, but I'm just assuming and not playing.

play with the marios or the pits instead, and let them show you where you're lacking. they have options for any situation, so if you lack on something, they'll show it.

also, save and show us a video of you playing so we know what's really going on.
 

Oneiros5321

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
115
#22
He's slow, he has a lot a lags, a bad recovery, he can hardly kill without the limit and with the limit you can avoid it easily by just plying defensively for 15 sec. He has a nice range but his moves are so slow that you can be punished for wathever you do if you don't space perfectly every moves. And if you get comboed and send to the sky, it's really hard to recover from here because he's so slow that you can't contest or trade, you will lose instantly 90%+ of the trades and his "defensives" moves like down air or neutral air have really small hitbox, even smaller than the animation let suppose it...
Hum, I wouldn't say Cloud is that bad. He's got nerfed from Smash 4 (rightfully so), but he is still good. I think if you get punished a lot because of his move lag, then the problem is probably to know when attack and what attack to use.
You have pretty good options that are safe on shield, safe on landing and good to punish an opponent without putting yourself in danger.

Then again, as I said before, maybe Cloud is just not right for you and you'll feel more comfortable with someone else.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,522
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
#23
The problem is not winning or losing.
I know if I want to improve I'm gonna loose a lot. It's a part of the game.
My problem is after 100h + of training mode, online arena training sessions, local training sessions + hours and hours of videos, replay, game analysis etc... and then when I go somewhere to play for the win. I loose miserably.

It's very frustrating to invest a lot of effort, time and patience for no results.

I know the mistake I make but it's very hard to beat bad habits. It takes a lot of time. I don't say I just keep playing bad and that's it but it's just very hard to learn at this point.

For example, I didn't use grab. Now I'm focusing of grabing more. But I have the bad habits of never use the grab and it takes me a lot of efforts to think about the grab command and use it in a battle. So when I'm in a situation where I should grab but I use a jab or a tilt instead I'm like "damn I should'very grab but I've used ftilt and I'm getting punished for it". So yeah I guess I need more hours of playing and training.

I think I'm alors frustrated because I feel like my main, Cloud, is pretty bad and very limited. It limits my options and what I can do with him. (See my post above).

I'm currently trying to find an other main. Probably going to corrin but I need more practice.
Change the term 'winning' to 'getting results' in my previous post and the point still stands. Have you tried asking your friends what they're capitalizing on exactly? What you think it is may not exactly be what it is 100% of the time. Instead of playing ALL your friends in a session, have you ever just gotten together with one to grind out a matchup? Either online or in person. Doesn't matter. If you posted a video of yourself playing I would try to point out every habit or mistake I saw. Seems to me like you're thinking too hard versus not thinking hard enough.

And Cloud is a really good character. He's not quite in the same place he was in Smash 4, but still amazing to say the least. And fairly easy to play. If you're stuck in this mindset, Corrin's not going to save you. Not saying a character change won't help, but Corrin is a harder character to use and is a bit worse than Cloud.

Cloud's smashes are laggy but he has way faster attacks like Bair, uair, ftilt. All these will kill at some point. He's still a really good juggler with utilt and uair. Blade beam can 2 frame recoveries and is a pretty annoying projectile. Climhazard is a great OOS "get off me" option. Cross Slash is a good early percent combo. Some characters would kill to have his B moves. And this isn't even factoring in Limit. You can be more liberal with Limit now with the timer's existence and not worry about burning it too early. They can both be used as damage builders and kill moves. AND you can still run away and charge it. There's nothing wrong with this character. It's all in your head.

I actually joined a random arena last evening and it just so happened to be housing someone way better than me. He destroyed me the first couple games, even a couple 3 stocks, but as I started to get the flow of how he played, we started to trade games back and forth pretty evenly. I wasn't able to beat him consistently, because we were adapting to each other game after game. It was probably the hardest I've had to play in a while, but I think I came out of it as a better player than I was before. It was a coincidence that he played Cloud, but I think I'm a lot better in the matchup after the couple hours I spent in there. That is what will help you get better. Or it could push you out the door. Just depends on how fragile your mindset continues to be.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
289
#24
I have a friend just like you, except he tries maybe half as hard as you and gets twice as salty, so at least know that you're already ahead of the curve in some ways, dude. Like another person said on here, at least you're still trying. My friend quits for like six months until we have a group of friends get together and play, he gets mad, tries hard for two to four weeks, doesn't get instant results, and "quits" again. Keep trying, pay attention to a lot of the advice in this thread, and remember that you're definitely not the worst out there.
 
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MG_3989

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
1,132
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-8397-3391-6411
#25
I would add to that, don't limit yourself at watching the very best players. There are YouTubers out there who might not have the same level but are much better at teaching. I think Izaw or Jtails for example.
Yeah Izaw and Jtails are both much better teachers than Zero. Zero isn’t really a good teacher at all and I’d avoid his guides. Zero basically assumes you know what he knows and kind of just rambles about what he likes to do with a character. Jtails and Izaw (Leffen is pretty good too when he does his character series if he’s doing a character you wanna play) know how to teach and are actual coaches, I highly reccomend their videos. Also the one Izaw video that’s titled “training” I think will give you all the practice in the world on fundamentals and you’ll have them down in 2-3 weeks or so if you do the regiment. Stuff like spacing and tech and buttons anyone can do just as well as anyone else with enough practice

Make sure you understand the game too. Make sure you understand what neutral, advantage, and disadvantage really are and when you’re playing think about what phase you’re in and what you want to do. If you’re in disadvantage you wanna reset neutral. How are you gonna do that? If you’re in advantage you wanna take as much percent/get a kill if possible WITHOUT overextending (there are times in advantage to reset to neutral too). How are you gonna do that? If you’re in neutral your goal is to get into advantage as fast as possible. How are you gonna do that? Once your tech is good enough you’ll be able to start thinking about things like this. Make sure you understand different play styles such as zoning, bait and punish, rush down, etc...

Also don’t worry about online or if you’re in elite smash or not. It doesn’t matter at all and you can still perform decent at tourneys without being in elite smash
 
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Domah

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
5
#26
Thanks again for all your answers and you support guys.

I'll play a session with two of my friends today. I'll try to bring some replays and test corrin.

For cloud, my problem is not his neutral, he has a good neutral game. But when you're at disadvantage and lose the control of the arena, it's really hard to recover from there because he's getting juggled very easily and he only has very few option when the opponent have the lower ground. Plus his recovery suck.
 

MG_3989

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
1,132
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-8397-3391-6411
#27
Thanks again for all your answers and you support guys.

I'll play a session with two of my friends today. I'll try to bring some replays and test corrin.

For cloud, my problem is not his neutral, he has a good neutral game. But when you're at disadvantage and lose the control of the arena, it's really hard to recover from there because he's getting juggled very easily and he only has very few option when the opponent have the lower ground. Plus his recovery suck.
Yeah Cloud has a bad disadvantage especially off stage. His recovery is legit bad and he’s an easy edgeguard. You’ve gotta make sure your airdodge and drift game is on point when landing with him and you can’t repeat the same airdodge pattern twice. You’ll get there I promise, you just have to break the thersehold and then literally the entire game slows down for you (not like lag, like you take in the information of everything you’re doing and everything your opponent is doing on a much broader and more detailed scope with more foresight. Everyone has the “slow down” moment, it’s like a light switch and you don’t go back)
 
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Domah

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
5
#28
Yeah Cloud has a bad disadvantage especially off stage. His recovery is legit bad and he’s an easy edgeguard. You’ve gotta make sure your airdodge and drift game is on point when landing with him and you can’t repeat the same airdodge pattern twice. You’ll get there I promise, you just have to break the thersehold and then literally the entire game slows down for you (not like lag, like you take in the information of everything you’re doing and everything your opponent is doing on a much broader and more detailed scope with more foresight. Everyone has the “slow down” moment, it’s like a light switch and you don’t go back)
I understand what you're talking about.
When I play Vs lvl 9 bots I feel like they are much slower that they were for me when I started the game.

Maybe cloud is just not for me and I have to take another pick.

Justin Allen Goldschmidt Justin Allen Goldschmidt I know there is many much worse players than me. But knowing that doesn't make me happy or so. I don't really care. My problem is seeing my friends getting much better than me much faster. When I go at local events with high level players and when I see them playing, I realise the long way to go. I have so much things to learn and to practice to be at this competitive level.

My problem is seeing my friends getting tournament results, playing many chars very well, learning things very fast when I have to work 2 to 3 times more than them.
The worse thing is one of them doesn't even own the game. Never played smash 4 or other smash that much. And when he goes on smash ultimate, he destroys us and can compete with competitive national players.

It's very depressing in fact... but I won't just surrender and stop playing because some people are better. It's what motive me to get better. But I feel like rock Lee Vs neiji vs Sasuke in naruto.

Rock Lee :
- try hard, train every days, on and on, never surrender, and fail, lose, he's just bad even with all that training. (Me)

Neiji :
- gifted genius who progress very fast with some training, he understand things fast, and learns them fast. (One of my friends, he was top 5000 on SF5 online...)

Sasuke :
- the ultimate gifted one, can learn everything in seconds and things come naturally to him. He doesn't have to really train or try hard. He just try a thing and it works most of the time. (The other friend, who don't own the game, don't even know what are the phase, or how moves are called, he just do things and beat us, and made a top 8 in local tournament with some very good players, some of them are at a national level...)

The other guys in the team are not as good, but they still progress and learn much faster than me. I feel like jar jar binks inside a team of jedi....
 

MG_3989

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
1,132
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-8397-3391-6411
#29
Look it doesn’t matter who’s better between you and your friends. This is a game that’s for fun and personal growth and progress. Everyone blooms at their own time just give it a little bit longer and implement what was said in this thread

Never compare yourself to somebody else in life or in games. It’s not healthy nor productive. You have a never say die attitude but your attitude is also defeatist. You have to believe you can win before you can win
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,522
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
#30
Please post a replay. Honestly. Doesn’t matter if you don’t have an SD card. It can be a cell phone video of your tv. I promise it will help you more than continuing the hugfest.
 

JDCabrera

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
10,514
Location
Taken down
NNID
Wakagoodbiehello
Switch FC
SW-0890-1538-2701
#31
I suck at Xenoblade Chronicles, but I still enjoy playing it for the sake of random fun.

Don’t play Smash to become the best, but to have fun with any character and stage you like.
 
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