I remember when people said Pokemon Trainer was the worst character....

TrainerFireRed

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#1
...but I didn't care. I loved the Pokemon games and loved his mechanic. It took more that just random button mashing to use him, and you had to use real strategy to use him. I've seen fanart of Charizard burning his trainer, people being mean to the character, ect ect


But he's back and better than ever!
Has the fandom changed their mind on him? Or I guess I should say "them" because Leaf. But still, I'm really proud that my favorite character has improved after 10 years
 

Frizz

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#2
I think it's safe to say that they still feel the same—that Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard should all be separate fighters.

Which doesn't make sense. They're each at different evolution stages, so the consistency would be off if they were separate.

Making them Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charmander, or Venosaur, Blastoise, and Charizard wouldn't work either—they'd all be in the same weight class, which wouldn't add a lot of variety.

Pokemon Trainer is perfect the way they are.
 

TrainerFireRed

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#3
I think it's safe to say that they still feel the same—that Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard should all be separate fighters.

Which doesn't make sense. They're each at different evolution stages, so the consistency would be off if they were separate.

Making them Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charmander, or Venosaur, Blastoise, and Charizard wouldn't work either—they'd all be in the same weight class, which wouldn't add a lot of variety.

Pokemon Trainer is perfect the way they are.
Exactly! That's what makes the trainer special. Having them seperate just ruins the whole thing. Honestly, I didn't like Charizard at all alone. Maybe I was just so used to switching? Also canonly it made no sense for Charizard and the others to be alone. In Pokemon, having one Pokemon only is basically a death sentence.
Also have no idea how Char mega evolved without a trainer due to how mega evolution even works
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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#4
Gameplay and story segregation, that's how. Which is why solo Charizard worked and was able to mega evolve on his own. Those details aren't important and would only serve as obstacles when implementing a character.

With that said, I always like Pokemon Trainer's unique mechanic and I'm he is back and better than ever. I've always like character who switch movesets on the fly.
 

TrainerFireRed

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#5
I think another reason why Charizard made me angry was this was right about the time Origins came out. You see the bond between Pokemon and trainer, Charizard goes Mega Evolution to save his trainer, and then boom, Smash 4 gives us trainerless Charizard (with a mega X evolution mind you, the same from origins) and his Trainer is demoted to a stupid colectable trophy. I know Smash Bros Red and Game Red are different but...like this just seemed like Charizard just said "remember the stuff we went through? Screw that! Bye trophy boy~!" and left.

Eh, just glad he's back with his trainer. Plus I always like how Smash bros gives you mechanics from the games. Smash 4 was more Pokken Tournament than actual Pokemon
 
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Yosher

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#6
I know Smash Bros Red and Game Red are different but...like this just seemed like Charizard just said "remember the stuff we went through? Screw that! Bye trophy boy~!" and left.
I know it's not the same, but you could see Smash 4 Charizard as still being the Trainer. Sure, he's not shown in the background, but neither are all the other Pokémon's trainers that come out of Pokéballs at the start of the match. You could potentially see Smash 4 as the 'Rock Tunnel' or something of Smash, where the other Pokémon have fainted and all the trainer has left is Charizard, while the trainer is simply.. standing elsewhere off-screen, just like the other aforementioned trainers. If you can look at it that way, the Trainer never truly left the Smash scene in Smash 4!

Of course it's much better to have him back the way he was in Brawl and I'm happy to see him back, along with Squirtle, Ivysaur, and even bringing Leaf along for the ride (who I still wish to have shown up on Mt. Silver instead of Red in HG/SS if you chose Lyra, but I digress; I chose Ethan/Gold anyway so it wouldn't have affected me). The largest bothersome thing in Brawl was the stamina mechanic of course, but I never had too much of an issue with that personally as I played Pokémon Trainer because I wanted to use all three Pokémon anyway, and that's not gonna change here even with the removal of the stamina mechanic.

I already kind of fear the combos people are going to be able to pull off with the Pokémon Change being so quick and performable in the air though. (And on a side-note: your avatar... Red's look is mildly creepy. :p )
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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#7
I think another reason why Charizard made me angry was this was right about the time Origins came out. You see the bond between Pokemon and trainer, Charizard goes Mega Evolution to save his trainer, and then boom, Smash 4 gives us trainerless Charizard (with a mega X evolution mind you, the same from origins) and his Trainer is demoted to a stupid colectable trophy. I know Smash Bros Red and Game Red are different but...like this just seemed like Charizard just said "remember the stuff we went through? Screw that! Bye trophy boy~!" and left.

Eh, just glad he's back with his trainer. Plus I always like how Smash bros gives you mechanics from the games. Smash 4 was more Pokken Tournament than actual Pokemon
Eh, that's overthinking it and taking stuff a tad bit too seriously than it should be.

How come Link doesn't run out of arrows? How come Mario uses the Fire Flower and Super Cape power ups in conjunction with FLUDD? How come Peach can pull veggies literally from anywhere she is standing? How come Pikachu and co. manage without a trainer and never run out of PP? How come Mewtwo and Lucario mega evolve without a trainer, and now, Ash Greninja as well? How come the FE cast don't move per turns? How come Megaman doesn't die instantly when touching Bowser's shell or Sonic's quills? Same reason how Charizard used to mega evolve without a trainer: gameplay/story segregation. It's nothing that warrants getting mad about. Devs have to take liberties when adapting characters.
 
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TrainerFireRed

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#8
I know it's not the same, but you could see Smash 4 Charizard as still being the Trainer. Sure, he's not shown in the background, but neither are all the other Pokémon's trainers that come out of Pokéballs at the start of the match. You could potentially see Smash 4 as the 'Rock Tunnel' or something of Smash, where the other Pokémon have fainted and all the trainer has left is Charizard, while the trainer is simply.. standing elsewhere off-screen, just like the other aforementioned trainers. If you can look at it that way, the Trainer never truly left the Smash scene in Smash 4!

Of course it's much better to have him back the way he was in Brawl and I'm happy to see him back, along with Squirtle, Ivysaur, and even bringing Leaf along for the ride (who I still wish to have shown up on Mt. Silver instead of Red in HG/SS if you chose Lyra, but I digress; I chose Ethan/Gold anyway so it wouldn't have affected me). The largest bothersome thing in Brawl was the stamina mechanic of course, but I never had too much of an issue with that personally as I played Pokémon Trainer because I wanted to use all three Pokémon anyway, and that's not gonna change here even with the removal of the stamina mechanic.

I already kind of fear the combos people are going to be able to pull off with the Pokémon Change being so quick and performable in the air though. (And on a side-note: your avatar... Red's look is mildly creepy. :p )
I guess you are right. From what I heard, they just couldn't get the trainer to work on 3ds so they just chose the most strongest one. Heh I guess I wasn't as angry as I was disapointed though. I just loved how close it was t the games. I love how the stamina mechanic is gone now too.

I really do wish they did use Leaf in more things. I love her design.
(lol, yeah the icon is actually Lusamine model swapped with Red during her...creepy moments heh heh)


Eh, that's overthinking it and taking stuff a tad bit too seriously than it should be.

How come Link doesn't run out of arrows? How come Mario uses the Fire Flower and Super Cape power ups in conjunction with FLUDD? How come Peach can pull veggies literally from anywhere she is standing? How come Pikachu and co. manage without a trainer and never run out of PP? How come Mewtwo and Lucario mega evolve without a trainer, and now, Ash Greninja as well? How come the FE cast don't move per turns? How come Megaman doesn't die instantly when touching Bowser's shell or Sonic's quills? Same reason how Charizard used to mega evolve without a trainer: gameplay/story segregation. It's nothing that warrants getting mad about. Devs have to take liberties when adapting characters.
True, sorry, I guess I was sorta peeved since I watched origins that year. I understand now, but it would have been cool to incorparate that special like they did with Ash Greeninja this year. But still he did still work on his own, but I prefer him with the trainer. Though Rock Smash was pretty good though and I thought maybe a taunt could switch Pokemon, but then it would make Pokemon Trainer really op since their taunts don't let them be vulnerable at all. I also wish they gave them a new final smash but I'm fine with triple finish. Brings back good memories
 
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TMNTSSB4

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#9
Only thing that’s worse about Red (and only him...Leaf and the Pokémon are perfection) is his new voice
 

Maikou

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#12
Only thing that’s worse about Red (and only him...Leaf and the Pokémon are perfection) is his new voice
He has a new voice? I thought the old VA was just doing a deeper voice for Red. Though now that I hear him again...is that Todd Habercorn?
I'm glad to hear the trainers have voices. You both seem to have heard them, so I need to ask, do they still say the lines from the games when you switch, like "Get back!/Go! [Pokemon]" or have they changed that? It's actually my favorite thing about the Trainer in Brawl, but switching is so fast it doesn't seem like the returning/tagging out lines have time to play before the send out lines should start. Do they reverse the order, like "Go! Charizard!/You were great, Ivysaur!", or do they still somehow say them in game-accurate order despite the speed?

.....Actually, are there just any gameplay videos at all where the Trainers' voices can actually be heard? I've seen many videos, but all of them have people chattering over the game or are muted with the uploader simply adding in music, and I don't have any access to any sort of demo or even or anything to hear them in person.
 

TMNTSSB4

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#13
I'm glad to hear the trainers have voices. You both seem to have heard them, so I need to ask, do they still say the lines from the games when you switch, like "Get back!/Go! [Pokemon]" or have they changed that? It's actually my favorite thing about the Trainer in Brawl, but switching is so fast it doesn't seem like the returning/tagging out lines have time to play before the send out lines should start. Do they reverse the order, like "Go! Charizard!/You were great, Ivysaur!", or do they still somehow say them in game-accurate order despite the speed?

.....Actually, are there just any gameplay videos at all where the Trainers' voices can actually be heard? I've seen many videos, but all of them have people chattering over the game or are muted with the uploader simply adding in music, and I don't have any access to any sort of demo or even or anything to hear them in person.
Based on what I heard, they both say full sentences like Red did in Brawl (maybe even the exact same lines for him, Leaf has different lines to fit her)
 

Red Ryu

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#14
In Brawl I think they were high low or low mid due to the stamina and some other minor issues.

They mostly fixed this for the most part given they all appear to be a lot more solid this time around as individual characters and stamina is out the window.
 
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1FC0

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#15
PT was one of my secondaries in SSBB and I really missed PT in Smash4. To me Charizard was not even close to being a replacement for PT. PT's playstyle was dynamic, PT was about switching up tactics mid-battle by switching Pokemon. Charizard's playstyle is very different. Without PT's playstyle Charizard is just another boring heavyweight to me.

The closest that Smash4 has to PT is actually Shulk since they both have a dynamic playstyle. And indeed Shulk has replaced PT for me in Smash4.
 

TrainerFireRed

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#16
Ok this is way late but, they have more emotion and I love it xD When he loses, Red says "dang it!" or something. Need to play leaf to see how she sounds, but mostly I've been playing Red
 

Kairyu24

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#17
The old voice basically tried to go for Ash.

The new VA seems fine, but the voice direction makes him sound a bit squaky. Pokemon origins Red wasn’t like this, so in 2018 I’m not quite as happy with it. From what I heard of the female she sounds more natural, also being easier to voice then the tricky ‘preteen boy’ niche.
 

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

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#18
I know it's not the same, but you could see Smash 4 Charizard as still being the Trainer. Sure, he's not shown in the background, but neither are all the other Pokémon's trainers that come out of Pokéballs at the start of the match. You could potentially see Smash 4 as the 'Rock Tunnel' or something of Smash, where the other Pokémon have fainted and all the trainer has left is Charizard, while the trainer is simply.. standing elsewhere off-screen, just like the other aforementioned trainers. If you can look at it that way, the Trainer never truly left the Smash scene in Smash 4!
I couldn’t help but think of this comic after reading this :)

D23A6D97-E765-4BF9-808F-FE9177E96B64.png
 

Kith

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#20
Time to pick up Pokemon Trainer again. I do miss all the Squirtle hydro-shenanigans though. Withdrawal is pretty great though
 
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