I really dislike king k rool

[Perfect patricia]

Now hear me out. I know the game just came out so talking about how op characters are is flawed. But king K. Rool is just such a dumb character. He literally has everything a fighter should had. Heavy weight? Check. Projectile spam? Check. Super armor on some moves? Check. Spammable, shielding breaking down smash with invincibility? Check. Amazing edge guarding tools? Check. And then to top it all off he has an amazing recovery. Which I just find stupid for a character with super armor. Even though little Mac has super armor as well but he has weakness like a terrible recovery. I really don’t know what they were thinking when making him. I just struggle to fight against him so hard it’s not even funny. I know I’m just venting now but my anger on this character is ridiculous.

 

[Christian_CAO]

good...good.
let the hate flow through you

 

[MalachitJR]

His attacks are pretty slow and can be countered with grabs if super armored. He's easily comboed and will try to counter or land neutral air , you can bait these by not continuing a combo when you normally would, and punish him for trying to get out of your combo. Krool’s options outside of his shield aren’t the best with his best being jab and neutral air with neither being particularly fast. Practice pressuring his shield with aerials and grabs.If he just uses crown, jump over it, grab him, and use invincibility on your throw animation (grab armor) to ignore the returning hitbox of crown. If his crown is on the ground use it against him and keep him from recovering it. His recovery is hard to counter but some fighters with long ranged spikes can spike him like ganon and wolf.
Keep practicing with this matchup and you'll get the hang of it after a while.

 

[osby]

I mean, me too, but gameplay is a dumb reason to hate a character. Plus, he has his weaknesses and there's still balance patches. It's still to early, even though he seems like a very annoying character to fight against.

Also, does this really needs its own thread?

 

[RepStar]

Dont forget he has a grab that slams you stuck into the ground. Lmaololololololol

 

[Rocketjay8]

His attacks are pretty slow and can be countered with grabs if super armored. He's easily comboed and will try to counter or land neutral air , you can bait these by not continuing a combo when you normally would, and punish him for trying to get out of your combo. Krool’s options outside of his shield aren’t the best with his best being jab and neutral air with neither being particularly fast. Practice pressuring his shield with aerials and grabs.If he just uses crown, jump over it, grab him, and use invincibility on your throw animation (grab armor) to ignore the returning hitbox of crown. If his crown is on the ground use it against him and keep him from recovering it. His recovery is hard to counter but some fighters with long ranged spikes can spike him like ganon and wolf.
Keep practicing with this matchup and you'll get the hang of it after a while.

Be careful when throwing the crown at him though, he can reflect it and kill you.

 

[Wyoming]

Came in here expecting an osby post. Got it.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

So the other thread venting about KKR got closed. Wouldn't be surprised if this one gets closed too.

 

[Sudz]

Now hear me out. I know the game just came out so talking about how op characters are is flawed. But king K. Rool is just such a dumb character. He literally has everything a fighter should had. Heavy weight? Check. Projectile spam? Check. Super armor on some moves? Check. Spammable, shielding breaking down smash with invincibility? Check. Amazing edge guarding tools? Check. And then to top it all off he has an amazing recovery. Which I just find stupid for a character with super armor. Even though little Mac has super armor as well but he has weakness like a terrible recovery. I really don’t know what they were thinking when making him. I just struggle to fight against him so hard it’s not even funny. I know I’m just venting now but my anger on this character is ridiculous.

Learn to get around his gimmick. Anyone saying K Rool is busted needs to keep working at the game, because he's really pretty average.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Take Cranky's advice.

 

[Sabertooth]

He has tons of weaknesses you just need to learn. Like for example, Villager and Isabelle completely shut him down.

 

[Luigifan18]

So the other thread venting about KKR got closed. Wouldn't be surprised if this one gets closed too.

People have been clamoring for K. Rool to be in Smash for nearly 2 decades, and now that he's in, they're complaining about him?!? Big fanbases just can't be pleased...

 

[TurboLink]

Now hear me out. I know the game just came out so talking about how op characters are is flawed. But king K. Rool is just such a dumb character. He literally has everything a fighter should had. Heavy weight? Check. Projectile spam? Check. Super armor on some moves? Check. Spammable, shielding breaking down smash with invincibility? Check. Amazing edge guarding tools? Check. And then to top it all off he has an amazing recovery. Which I just find stupid for a character with super armor. Even though little Mac has super armor as well but he has weakness like a terrible recovery. I really don’t know what they were thinking when making him. I just struggle to fight against him so hard it’s not even funny. I know I’m just venting now but my anger on this character is ridiculous.

His recovery isn't amazing. Disjoints can usually beat the portion with a hitbox and his sides are always exposed.

 

[Tollhouse]

As I fight K Rool more and more, I'm learning more and more how to beat him.

However... I do agree that they gave K Rool too many tools. Like the OP said, K Rool does have a lot. I think he'd be fine if his recovery's hitbox was smaller or if the recovery itself didn't have so much range. I think it's pretty absurd how safe that recovery is and at the same time how much range it has. All the characters in the cast with recoveries that have similar range (Villager, Isabelle, Duck Hunt, ROB, Olimar, etc) are all vulnerable to attacks while recovering and weigh less than K Rool making them easier to be KO'd. Of all the characters, why should the 2nd heaviest character in the roster have more recovery protection than the significantly lighter weight characters I listed?

Other than his recovery, I really don't have problems with K Rool. He's supposed to be a powerhouse fighter like Ganondorf and Bowser. I just don't like the idea of fighters that are easy to pick up and have moves with little consequence like his up B recovery.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

K.Rool is a scrub killer character.

If you don't know how to fight him, he's really hard to beat.

Once you learn him though, he starts to fall apart.

He's the Little Mac of Ultimate, in that new players think he's amazing, but he's actually just okay.

 

[Rocketjay8]

As I fight K Rool more and more, I'm learning more and more how to beat him.

However... I do agree that they gave K Rool too many tools. Like the OP said, K Rool does have a lot. I think he'd be fine if his recovery's hitbox was smaller or if the recovery itself didn't have so much range. I think it's pretty absurd how safe that recovery is and at the same time how much range it has. All the characters in the cast with recoveries that have similar range (Villager, Isabelle, Duck Hunt, ROB, Olimar, etc) are all vulnerable to attacks while recovering and weigh less than K Rool making them easier to be KO'd. Of all the characters, why should the 2nd heaviest character in the roster have more recovery protection than the significantly lighter weight characters I listed?

Other than his recovery, I really don't have problems with K Rool. He's supposed to be a powerhouse fighter like Ganondorf and Bowser. I just don't like the idea of fighters that are easy to pick up and have moves with little consequence like his up B recovery.

The thing is that his recovery always goes in a linear line. Meaning that he has to recover low whenever he's launched far. He has so much and when landed on stage. He's susceptible to the sides, so he will get stage spiked. If someone has a good disjointed dair, easy spike. In all honesty, if they reduce the hitbox, it would have the same problem with duck hunt's recovery in smash 4. Why shouldn't he have a good recovery? It's not like he has alot of options to defend himself off stage. I mean, Dedede has a fantastic recovery, and he's one of the heaviest characters in the game

 

[Tollhouse]

The thing is that his recovery always goes in a linear line. Meaning that he has to recover low whenever he's launched far. He has so much and when landed on stage. He's susceptible to the sides, so he will get stage spiked. If someone has a good disjointed dair, easy spike. In all honesty, if they reduce the hitbox, it would have the same problem with duck hunt's recovery in smash 4. Why shouldn't he have a good recovery? It's not like he has alot of options to defend himself off stage. I mean, Dedede has a fantastic recovery, and he's one of the heaviest characters in the game

i'm not saying to make his recovery awful. We can't take the hitbox away because he'd become a punching bag for everyone with a spike, so I suggest making it just a little smaller. Yes this would make him easier to be stage spiked but the character's got so much going for him on stage. He's got multiple moves with super armor, a counter, 2 long range attacks, and a couple moves to bury the opponent in the ground to get an easy KO. I don't think he'll stop being a solid character after a recovery nerf like the one I suggested.

 

[Justin Allen Goldschmidt]

The problem I have with him is the size of his recovery's hitbox, along with the way stage-spiking can now be teched no matter what until high percentages (REALLY high against K Rool). For those you that haven't seen the video yet, Beefy Smash Doods made a video about teching in Ultimate. Definitely worth a watch, and definitely explains my biggest gripe with K Rool, his recovery.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Came in here expecting an osby post. Got it.

The gift that keeps on giving

K.Rool has some great tools, but he suffers the same problems as other heavyweights. He can be comboed like no tomorrow and is predictable for example. Neutralise his Krown, which is one of, if not his most critical move when used properly. One of the reasons he is under the microscope is because he seems to be better than your average heavyweight with more tools, however it is far too early to call a character broken and smacks of sour grapes to be honest.

 

[Fell God]

I had to suffer playing as bottom tier trash for 4 years, now it's everyone else's turn to not have fun, and I will be the one to relieve you of it.

 

[Andinus]

I’ll agree he can be annoying, but the sense that he is op is 90% because he is new, 10% his design at this point. If the same can be said about him in 3 months, I will concede he is op, but he will probably be nerfed by then anyway if that is the case.

 

[ｐｓ＿]

K. Rool is a reflection of his boss fights on the SNES. Learn what moves he has, when he'll do them and know what you should do in response. He's not a character who can chain-combo you across the stage or dizzy you with his footsies, he tends not to be aggressive & he's very susceptible to being predictable. Bait his attacks and he quickly becomes a sitting duck.

That down-grab is kind of BS though. Still not as bad as Inkling's roller.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

As I fight K Rool more and more, I'm learning more and more how to beat him.

However... I do agree that they gave K Rool too many tools. Like the OP said, K Rool does have a lot. I think he'd be fine if his recovery's hitbox was smaller or if the recovery itself didn't have so much range. I think it's pretty absurd how safe that recovery is and at the same time how much range it has. All the characters in the cast with recoveries that have similar range (Villager, Isabelle, Duck Hunt, ROB, Olimar, etc) are all vulnerable to attacks while recovering and weigh less than K Rool making them easier to be KO'd. Of all the characters, why should the 2nd heaviest character in the roster have more recovery protection than the significantly lighter weight characters I listed?

Other than his recovery, I really don't have problems with K Rool. He's supposed to be a powerhouse fighter like Ganondorf and Bowser. I just don't like the idea of fighters that are easy to pick up and have moves with little consequence like his up B recovery.

King K. Rool was designed to have a lot of tools at his disposal. Almost all of his moves and features are pulled from his boss fights from the original DKC games.

 

[ZephyrZ]

However... I do agree that they gave K Rool too many tools. Like the OP said, K Rool does have a lot. I think he'd be fine if his recovery's hitbox was smaller or if the recovery itself didn't have so much range. I think it's pretty absurd how safe that recovery is and at the same time how much range it has. All the characters in the cast with recoveries that have similar range (Villager, Isabelle, Duck Hunt, ROB, Olimar, etc) are all vulnerable to attacks while recovering and weigh less than K Rool making them easier to be KO'd. Of all the characters, why should the 2nd heaviest character in the roster have more recovery protection than the significantly lighter weight characters I listed?

It's not like we've never had superheavies with good recoveries before, I don't know why we're acting like this is some new, unprecedented thing when and exist. No their recoveries don't have protective disjoints but they do have super armor and good range, and you'd be surprised how often and easily Flare Blitz kills overaggressive edge guarders.

You want to know why the second heaviest character in the roster has good recovery? Because being too heavy actually kind of sucks. There's a reason superheavies throughout Smash history have always struggled to break past midtier. More then one, even, and even K.Rool isn't safe from all of the trappings. Being able to survive at higher percents doesn't mean that much when you're a giant, easy to hit training dummy for people to practice their combos on. Combine that with the dependency on trading and slow, risky moves and heavies take a lot of damage fast. Heavies need other things in order to survive well, be it armor (, RIP Rock Smash though), recovery (), or deadly projectiles () and none of those things are still able to fully make up for all of their weaknesses. Maybe with all three of them combined K.Rool can be good, but those things still all have easy work arounds and just don't make up for a lack of exceptional mobility and frame data like most actually amazing characters () traditionally have.

 

[Call_Me_Red]

I'll join the train of people who think K Rool is not OP, and may debatably even be mid/low tier. He is very manageable to fight, particularly against very fast characters and projectile characters.

For fast characters he has nothing to keep them out. All of his moves that are fast have a very short range or are very situational (jab, up air, up smash). For projectile characters he has very few tools to get in. His super armor helps but has its limits and cannot be used for mobility. If you can run away from K Rool, you win.

His bury attacks are easy to avoid and easy to mash out of. It is easily possible to mash out of Down Throw at 100+ percent before K Rool can fire off an F smash. The wind up for D-Throw is so slow that you even have time to prepare your hands. And D-tilt is a hard punish, it's harder to mash out of but much harder to land. If you get buried by D-tilt, you deserve it.

His recovery is very exploitable. So much so that I'm not sure why people complain about it. Yes, it has a hit box on top, but literally every other area of his massive body is wide open. He can go up and very slightly left or right, it will not be hard to predict where he's going. If you cover the ledge so K Rool lands on stage, congrats on the free KO.

I think the meta is finally growing to the point where K Rool is slipping down the tier list, which is why you don't see him placing in any major tournaments.

In short, get gud.

 

[OmegaCorrin]

Now hear me out. I know the game just came out so talking about how op characters are is flawed. But king K. Rool is just such a dumb character. He literally has everything a fighter should had. Heavy weight? Check. Projectile spam? Check. Super armor on some moves? Check. Spammable, shielding breaking down smash with invincibility? Check. Amazing edge guarding tools? Check. And then to top it all off he has an amazing recovery. Which I just find stupid for a character with super armor. Even though little Mac has super armor as well but he has weakness like a terrible recovery. I really don’t know what they were thinking when making him. I just struggle to fight against him so hard it’s not even funny. I know I’m just venting now but my anger on this character is ridiculous.

Lol stop crying and learn how to counter him. And y not? Learn how to play w/ him.

 

[Gotmilk0112]

Learn to get around his gimmick. Anyone saying K Rool is busted needs to keep working at the game, because he's really pretty average.

"bayo isn't broken, learn to smash di bruh"

:^)

 

[Darkmoone1]

KKR is the textbook definition of a pubstomp character. He has very obvious strengths such as armor and grounded moves/grabs, but are offset by weakness that are easy to miss at first glance such as his large body and long start up on his oppressive moves (Such as his side B).

It's honestly a tried and true element in balancing a character in general. People who ignore his more subtle weaknesses are going to get destroyed by him. But this doesn't inherently make him strong, just predictable and exploitable on both sides.

 

[Sudz]

"bayo isn't broken, learn to smash di bruh"

:^)

No, more like "Little Mac isn't broken, learn to get around his gimmick."
Which is also true.

Bayonetta is a completely different situation and making comparisons between her (who effectively defined the meta toward the end of Smash 4's life cycle) and K Rool only furthers the point that complainers need to keep playing the game and get better before they start screeching about nerfs. They are not the same whatsoever. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either trolling or inexperienced.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

No, more like "Little Mac isn't broken, learn to get around his gimmick."
Which is also true.

Bayonetta is a completely different situation and making comparisons between her (who effectively defined the meta toward the end of Smash 4's life cycle) and K Rool only furthers the point that complainers need to keep playing the game and get better before they start screeching about nerfs. They are not the same whatsoever. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either trolling or inexperienced.

even with bayo, there was extensive research done, showing that she wasn't dominating the game like people thought, and lacked tourney results to prove herself far above everyone else. there never was a tourney that bayo just outright dominated and in numbers.

 

[osby]

even with bayo, there was extensive research done, showing that she wasn't dominating the game like people thought, and lacked tourney results to prove herself far above everyone else. there never was a tourney that bayo just outright dominated and in numbers.

Yeah, Meta Knight and Fox are more common than her in Brawl and Melee respectively and she doesn't even has her own tier like those two.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Yeah, Meta Knight and Fox are more common than her in Brawl and Melee respectively and she doesn't even has her own tier like those two.

Most likely because the lives of Brawl and Melee were much longer than the two year life of Bayonetta in Smash 4.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

"bayo isn't broken, learn to smash di bruh"

:^)

Apples and oranges.

Bayo came out well into Smash 4's life cycle. Ultimate barely has a week since it launched.

 

[Gotmilk0112]

Apples and oranges.

Bayo came out well into Smash 4's life cycle. Ultimate barely has a week since it launched.

Same logic is being used though, "hurr he's not broken, l2p lol "

You have to be willfully ignorant to think that a heavyweight character having a nearly unpunishable recovery, all sorts of super armor, kill confirms, ridiculous grabs and projectiles, all these insanely powerful tools, is perfectly fine and okay.

No, more like "Little Mac isn't broken, learn to get around his gimmick."
Which is also true.

little mac didn't have ridiculous projectiles and an unpunishable recovery

shoo

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Same logic is being used though, "hurr he's not broken, l2p lol "

You have to be willfully ignorant to think that a heavyweight character having a nearly unpunishable recovery, all sorts of super armor, kill confirms, ridiculous grabs and projectiles, all these insanely powerful tools, is perfectly fine and okay.


little mac didn't have ridiculous projectiles and an unpunishable recovery

shoo

That doesn't excuse you for using crummy logic and a bad analogy as an argument though.

And more like people haven't learned the matchup yet. No one is saying that he doesn't have good tools but to write him off as OP so early when you still haven't learn to deal with him.
This is the kind of situation that warrants us to tell you: git gud.

 

[ZephyrZ]

little mac didn't have ridiculous projectiles and an unpunishable recovery

And K.Rool can't easily ladder combo you off the top of the screen for making one tiny mistake like Bayo. What's your point?

 

[Gotmilk0112]

And more like people haven't learned the matchup yet. No one is saying that he doesn't have good tools but to write him off as OP so early when you still haven't learn to deal with him.
This is the kind of situation that warrants us to tell you: git gud.

People have been pointing out how broken-OP he is ever since being revealed and playable in demos, and it's been a couple weeks since release now, "hurr game is new, nobody knows matchup xddd" isn't really valid anymore

and "git gud" is not an argument, shoo

And K.Rool can't easily ladder combo you off the top of the screen for making one tiny mistake like Bayo. What's your point?

nice false equivalency + strawman

lol

 

[ZephyrZ]

nice false equivalency + strawman

I mean, isn't that what you were doing when you said

"bayo isn't broken, learn to smash di bruh"

:^)

?

K.Rool isn't Little Mac.
K.Rool isn't Bayo either.

It's also very easy to make a character sound broken when you cherry pick their strengths and ignore their weaknesses. K.Rool has a lot of things going for him but he also has a lot of weaknesses. His projectiles are slot and easy to avoid, his frame data is poor, he struggles out of shield, and his heavyweight and big body make it easy for him to get comboed into oblivion. People also overstate some of his strengths, such as his throws which are good but not busted.

 

[Gotmilk0112]

K.Rool isn't Little Mac.
K.Rool isn't Bayo either.

glad to see you don't understand what a metaphor is

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

People have been pointing out how broken-OP he is ever since being revealed and playable in demos, and it's been a couple weeks since release now, "hurr game is new, nobody knows matchup xddd" isn't really valid anymore

and "git gud" is not an argument, shoo


nice false equivalency + strawman

lol

Demos and early gameplay videos aren't exactly a great source of matchup knowledge to deal with a character.
You gotta play the game for weeks or months while facing all kinds of players and practicing to know the workarounds of your opponent. That's how the meta develops, not by looking for excuses and making bad comparisons.

And its a relevant argument given the context, so I'll say it again: git gud.

Shoo yourself man