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I really dislike king k rool

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Crystanium

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I do think King K. Rool does need a bit of nerfing, honestly. I've played against someone by the name of double D* or whatever in Elite Smash (my GSP for Samus right now is 3,466,343) and he has won every time I've encountered him. All he does is throw out attacks and he somehow gimps me off-stage. So, here's what I have in mind.

Down special: When K. Rool fails to counter/reflect, he shows some exhaustion, but this doesn't matter, since he has intangibility for certain frames. I have failed to punish him as a result, and this wasn't because I wasn't trying. Either remove that intangibility, or make the exhaustion last longer.

Down throw: This can lead to easy kills, and for some reason K. Rool doesn't struggle getting a grab. Reduce the burying time, please. Mashing is almost never guaranteed to work.

Super armor: Cause super armor to break sooner.
 
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Ghidorah14

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Seriously? His counter needs nerfing now?! WTF!!

His counter only works if you hit his belly, and it already has a lot of endlag! You should be able to punish a failed counter in reaction every time!
 

Sudz

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Down throw: This can lead to easy kills, and for some reason K. Rool doesn't struggle getting a grab. Reduce the burying time, please. Mashing is almost never guaranteed to work.

Super armor: Cause super armor to break sooner.
Read: i want down throw to be completely useless because it is ridiculously easy to mash out of as is, would you prefer if he can only confirm a jab off it at high %? Ridiculous suggestion

Also, you want to gimp him such that his belly breaks sooner, when it can already be broken easy as hell by parts of the cast? It would only be acceptable to break sooner if his damage healed significantly faster, to the point of being near instant, otherwise he is going to be walking on eggshells in the vast majority of matchups because it'll be unsafe to use a huge number of his moves.

This thread is terrible and I am so very glad that this isn't the population that is advising balance changes
 

Goddamn_Angela

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Seriously? His counter needs nerfing now?! WTF!!

His counter only works if you hit his belly, and it already has a lot of endlag! You should be able to punish a failed counter in reaction every time!
Hardest counter to use in the game only needs to be nerfed in the eyes of these people because they button-mash.
 
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Crystanium

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Read: i want down throw to be completely useless because it is ridiculously easy to mash out of as is, would you prefer if he can only confirm a jab off it at high %? Ridiculous suggestion

Also, you want to gimp him such that his belly breaks sooner, when it can already be broken easy as hell by parts of the cast? It would only be acceptable to break sooner if his damage healed significantly faster, to the point of being near instant, otherwise he is going to be walking on eggshells in the vast majority of matchups because it'll be unsafe to use a huge number of his moves.

This thread is terrible and I am so very glad that this isn't the population that is advising balance changes
Ah, someone sounds very upset. Reducing the time for being buried wouldn't make down throw completely useless. You're just exaggerating. The last time I checked, d-tilt can also bury

You're right, K. Rool shouldn't have that belly of his. He never demonstrated such ability. Remove it altogether.

The population may actually advise balancing more than you think. I recall reading somewhere that Elite Smash is being viewed. Besides, look at what happened to those like Bayonetta and Diddy Kong.
 

gr33nsl33v3s

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I do think King K. Rool does need a bit of nerfing, honestly. I've played against someone by the name of double D* or whatever in Elite Smash (my GSP for Samus right now is 3,466,343) and he has won every time I've encountered him. All he does is throw out attacks and he somehow gimps me off-stage. So, here's what I have in mind.

Down special: When K. Rool fails to counter/reflect, he shows some exhaustion, but this doesn't matter, since he has intangibility for certain frames. I have failed to punish him as a result, and this wasn't because I wasn't trying. Either remove that intangibility, or make the exhaustion last longer.

Down throw: This can lead to easy kills, and for some reason K. Rool doesn't struggle getting a grab. Reduce the burying time, please. Mashing is almost never guaranteed to work.

Super armor: Cause super armor to break sooner.
Our opinions don't matter. Anyone who says K.Rool is unbalanced is wrong. We just need to get good.
 

Crystanium

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Our opinions don't matter. Anyone who says K.Rool is unbalanced is wrong. We just need to get good.
You might think that about your opinions, but I disagree. I didn't say K. Rool was unbalanced, but I do think he needs a few nerfs. If that means buffing him in other areas, that's fine by me. But I agree with your last statement. Thank you.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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You're right, K. Rool shouldn't have that belly of his. He never demonstrated such ability. Remove it altogether.

The population may actually advise balancing more than you think. I recall reading somewhere that Elite Smash is being viewed. Besides, look at what happened to those like Bayonetta and Diddy Kong.
That goes for a lot of a characters. There is such a thing as taking liberties. The belly armor in Smash is just the dev team's take on the Kremling's hide.

And is true, the balance team takes input from the population for their decision making like looking at Elite Smash, taking input from high level players and looking at tournament results; not by looking at threads made by randoms with a weak mentality who can't escape burying even with "frame-perfect mashing" and think two meteor moves makes a character broken.


The opinions of the uninformed and clueless doesn't matter. Anyone who says K.Rool is unbalanced is wrong. We just need to get good.
Exactly. I'm glad we are on the same page.

FTFY, btw.
 

Sudz

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The population may actually advise balancing more than you think. I recall reading somewhere that Elite Smash is being viewed. Besides, look at what happened to those like Bayonetta and Diddy Kong.
Nice reading comprehension broski

Our opinions don't matter. Anyone who says K.Rool is unbalanced is wrong. We just need to get good.
It's funny that you're saying this sarcastically considering it's the only true thing you've said this entire time lmaooo
 
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Crystanium

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That goes for a lot of a characters.
So?

There is such a thing as taking liberties. The belly armor in Smash is just the dev team's take on the Kremling's hide.
Did you ask the devs personally? Or is this just an assumption?

And is true, the balance team takes input from the population for their decision making like looking at Elite Smash, taking input from high level players and looking at tournament results; not by looking at threads made by randoms with a weak mentality who can't escape burying even with "frame-perfect mashing" and think two meteor moves makes a character broken.
What's a weak mentality? Or is this just an attempt at insulting people who you disagree with?

Nice reading comprehension broski
Thanks.
 
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MG_3989

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So before in this thread I said just use Ness (which still isn’t bad advice), but obviously not everyone wants to do that. Make sure you avoid K Rool’s projectiles because they rack up damage fast. Also if you do get buried mash like crazy and he’ll usually whiff the punish

The basic kind of game you wanna play against him and most heavies is bait and punish. Dash dance and jump around sometimes throwing out attacks and sometimes doing nothing until you get in close to him. He’ll start using his down b shield move which has a big cool down. Read that move and punish him hard with combos or even a smash after it. He’s not that hard to deal with you just need to get used to avoiding his options

King K. Rool is good though! If he grabs you, down throws you, and you're at 60%, he can kill confirm you with a dsmash.
You can still easily mash out of his bury at that percentage. He shouldn’t even be going for smashes when he buries you at 60%
 
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Gryphon827

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When I say "frame-perfect mashing," I mean that you're inputting something on every frame. For example, on frame 1, you'd be pressing X and holding up, and on Frame 2, you'd be pressing A and holding right, and so on and so forth.
 
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Oneiros5321

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When I say "frame-perfect mashing," I mean that you're inputting something on every frame. For example, on frame 1, you'd be pressing X and holding up, and on Frame 2, you'd be pressing A and holding right, and so on and so forth.

Inputting a direction and a button at the same time is useless. The game will only register 1 input. (I mean, someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's the case).
Also if you are indeed able to coordinates your left and right hand to both input something different at every single frame, then you're a literal god at mashing.
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

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So what?

Did you ask the devs personally? Or is this just an assumption?
I'm just assuming, obviously. But this is not the first time they've done that and created stuff that wasn't in the source material.
They gave Bowser a Smash exclusive ultimate form.
They gave DK an Up B that is an implied reference to Dixie's hair twirl.
They gave Fox and Falco a set of scouters and reflectors that are seen in their designs for the latest Star Fox game.
They gave Dedede a jet hammer for his down B and a gordo tossing ability for his side B, which where later incorporated his boss fights in the Kirby franchise.
They gave Meta Knight Galaxia Darkness which was later implemented in the MetaKnightmare returns playthrough of Planet Robobot.

So I think that suggesting to remove something like K. Rool's armor because it wasn't in the canon isn't a good reason.

What's a weak mentality? Or is this just an attempt at insulting people who you disagree with?
No insult intended, but as long as this doesn't apply to you I don't see why this should worry you.

This mentality I speak of is the unhealthy kind where people often complain about a character's attributes or mechanics to say that they are OP, broken, etc. and refusing to learn to get better at the game.

With a new Smash game there is always an influx of newbies, and some of them seem to be unwilling to gain experience and matchup knowledge, so they often demand undiscriminate nerfs. So long as they continue with that mentality, they are the kind of people that the balancing team shouldn't be paying too much attention to.
Would you agree that the opinion from someone who studies matchups, frame data, move properties, combo labbing, gets results, etc. should be held in equal ground to someone who thinks having two meteor smashes and a "unreflectable" projectile makes a character broken? Because I don't. I rather they listen to people who know what they are talking about.

When I say "frame-perfect mashing," I mean that you're inputting something on every frame. For example, on frame 1, you'd be pressing X and holding up, and on Frame 2, you'd be pressing A and holding right, and so on and so forth.
No one says that. And for good reason.

Frame perfect means that you only have 1 frame window in a game to successfully pull off a technique. Several fighting games have one frame link combos that can only be performed with perfect timing. There are also frame perfect jumps in platforming games.

Mashing goes against all of that. Which is why you'll never see someone use such an oxymoron term as "frame-perfect mashing".
 
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Luigifan18

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So what?



I'm just assuming, obviously. But this is not the first time they've done that and created stuff that wasn't in the source material.
They gave Bowser a Smash exclusive ultimate form.
They gave DK an Up B that is an implied reference to Dixie's hair twirl.
They gave Fox and Falco a set of scouters and reflectors that are seen in their designs for the latest Star Fox game.
They gave Dedede a jet hammer for his down B and a gordo tossing ability for his side B, which where later incorporated his boss fights in the Kirby franchise.
They gave Meta Knight Galaxia Darkness which was later implemented in the MetaKnightmare returns playthrough of Planet Robobot.

So I think that suggesting to remove something like K. Rool's armor because it wasn't in the canon isn't a good reason.



No insult intended, but as long as this doesn't apply to you I don't see why this should worry you.

This mentality I speak of is the unhealthy kind where people often complain about a character's attributes or mechanics to say that they are OP, broken, etc. and refusing to learn to get better at the game.

With a new Smash game there is always an influx of newbies, and some of them seem to be unwilling to gain experience and matchup knowledge, so they often demand undiscriminate nerfs. So long as they continue with that mentality, they are the kind of people that the balancing team shouldn't be paying too much attention to.
Would you agree that the opinion from someone who studies matchups, frame data, move properties, combo labbing, gets results, etc. should be held in equal ground to someone who thinks having two meteor smashes and a "unreflectable" projectile makes a character broken? Because I don't. I rather they listen to people who know what they are talking about.



No one says that. And for good reason.

Frame perfect means that you only have 1 frame window in a game to successfully pull off a technique. Several fighting games have one frame link combos that can only be performed with perfect timing. There are also frame perfect jumps in platforming games.

Mashing goes against all of that. Which is why you'll never see someone use such an oxymoron term as "frame-perfect mashing".
While I agree that the opinion of ignorant lazy noobs is worthless, "frame-perfect mashing" is not an oxymoron. It just means that you can perfectly make separate inputs on each frame. The techniques you speak of are still technically "mashing", since they consist of inputs being made as fast as the game is able to register them; it's just that a specific combo or technique requires a specific sequence of inputs with specific timing to perform successfully, while mashing doesn't care what the inputs are as long as inputs are being made.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I think it's safe to say this thread ran it course.

Also, "git gud" posts are not constructive in any way. Besides that, image or video only posts are not allowed. Please always add context.
 
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