I need help ironing out some kinks in my neutral game

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

#1: Double Jumps

Spoiler

I notice that I tend to double jump way too much in neutral, especially in situations where it does nothing for me.

Whether it's guarding the ledge while the opponent is trying to get back onstage (I.E I'll double jump and charge Flare Blade in place for no reason), trying to approach, trying to retreat, and sometimes with combos/strings (though I'd argue it's possibly worth it there), I have a bad habit of jumping around too much and burning my double jump.

I was told to simply try to refrain from it in matches, and so far, I've had some luck. I still catch myself doing it, though. But I will iron it out eventually.

I would like to know when using my double jump is good, and how to better iron out this habit.

#2: Lack of Movement/Pressure that Matters

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I tend to do a lot of vertical movement rather than horizontal, such as short hopping in place, and sometimes full/double jumping. I'm not really retreating or pressing pressure, I just tend to stay in one spot and jump in situations where it really costs me and can never quite adapt. I can consistently extended dash dance with no issue, and I feel confident in my movement, but in matches, I fail to utilize it properly. I'm passive, yet I don't put up a defensive force or wall. I'm considered aggressive by others, but I can't aggress or push my presence well. Anyone who figures it out and can outplay me enough alongside it can beat me, so I'd like to iron out that kink.

How do you guys get yourselves to feel more confident using your movement around opponents and controlling the ground? I put myself in the air too much and would like to have a more dominant grounded presence. I want to put my consistent inputs and muscle memory to actual use.

#3: Ledge Getups

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They've always been awkward for me, and I always feel extremely pressured at the ledge, even though going for the ledge is always the safest way to recover. I don't know when to use neutral getup, roll in, neutral getup and roll, getup attack, and jump from ledge. I guess I'll try making it more matchup-dependent, thinking about the biggest punishes of the opponent and what they want most. Do you guys have any tips to more consistently avoid punishes and overall make the best use of ledge getups I can?

Overall, what I want most is more established control of the ground, being able to use Roy's incredible extended dash dance more reliably and push grounded pressure on opponents. I also tend to struggle when opponents sit in shield and empty hop while drifting away from me, and I want to know how to cross people up and apply dominating pressure reliably.

You can see a culmination of my issues in the set below:

Anything else you spot, I'd greatly appreciate it being pointed out and brought to my attention. Ultimately my gameplay's a mess that I'd like to rework and optimize as much as I can, and I know there's a lot Roy can do that I'm just not applying properly.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I appreciate the work you put into this, but I don't think this needed it's own thread.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

I appreciate the work you put into this, but I don't think this needed it's own thread.

Where do you think I should move this?

 

[DarkDeity15]

Where do you think I should move this?

I would suggest simply keeping it to yourself. Not everyone wants to know everything that you struggle at specifically. If you want other people's opinions then you can just ask in the social or go up to a more experienced player and ask them imo.

 

[amen]

As far as when you're on the ledge, mix-up what you do once you're on the stage. Often you would shield by the ledge, which would've been fine except that lead to the many grabs from DK. You could roll to center (yes it's obvious but if used sparingly it can take others by surprise), counter (good job on the times you used it), or sh nair in place (not that great but it works when they try to dash grab). When pressuring an opponent on the ledge it depends on the situation. I like to dash towards the ledge, and do a retreating sh nair. At best you'll hit them if they roll on be close to where they'll end up. At worst, you should still have stage control. I've seen Sethlon use flare blade for pressure. For neutral, (this won't apply in every match-up) don't be afraid to either dash away, or use extended dash dancing. It sounds counter-productive but in the first gamefor instance, when DK respawned, you could've dashed away, sh ad and punish a grab if he tried it.

 

[KenMeister]

Hmmm, we had some friendlies not long ago and I believe I can see what I can do to help out!
Double jumps:
You tend to do jumps out of reaction whenever I close in gaps within midrange, presumably to cross me up with fast-falled uairs. I can't imagine Roy having many escape options when he's cornered at the edge, but there were times where I'd read the jumps and snipe them with a fair or something. Sometimes if you feel an opponent pressuring you within midrange once they have stage control, some mixups to go for is runback pivot grab, spotdodge (didn't really see any), or finding an opening in their offense and powershielding. It's all about mixups really, and not making a pattern out of them (like, oh I'm always gonna roll back after I tried empty hopping! or something of that nature)
Lack of movement/pressure options:
While admittingly more of a fault of the character than anything since Roy is pretty booty vs. shields (aside from safe dtilts, tipped nairs and falling cross-up uairs), something you can do to mix up your movement is adding in more empty short hops, keeping yourself level with the ground without giving up much stage control, or even mixing up your shield pressure by empty hop grabs, faking out an approach on shield but rather landing normally and grabbing afterwards. Dash grab is obviously unsafe because of how laggy it is, so if someone is retreating and you read it, running behind someone and crossing up with a pivot grab is a pretty decent answer. The biggest hole I noticed in your playstyle when I played you is that you go for alot of aerial pressure, which isn't always the best idea when I can either catch your landing by way of pivot grab or whatever or just spacing around your aerials as you land (hence the spaced uairs). When an opponent catches on to this gameplan, you're effectively giving up stage control and giving your opponents more opportunities to punish you. tldr: try to stay more grounded if you can and use dash-pivot dances to keep your opponent guessing in neutral without committing to too much.
Ledge-getups:
Hard to say, really, as Roy's ledge options aren't very good, it's really just like I was saying earlier whereas you mix it up and don't make a pattern out of it. Also knowing the reads your opponent goes for most at the ledge can help. Don't shield too much on ledge getup, if you feel absolutely forced to do it, going for spotdodge mixups can help, or being patient on the ledge in general (not too patient on the ledge though LOL)

Anyways, hope this long write-up helps dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523 !

 

[Spark31]

One small thing I noticed at roughly 0:53. You were pressuring DK with a down tilt and just... Retreated with nothing gained. Down tilt is relatively safe on shield, especially in a pressure situation like that. Generally the most common option people use to escape is to roll away. This is how you apply pressure. You throw on some down tilts and put pressure on DK to use some other option and escape shield as fast as possible. Latch onto their habits in these situations and punish accordingly (usually I'll got for a dash back pivot f tilt, but if I'm confidant in my read I'll go for a pivot forward smash). Against smarter opponents this will make roll a more discouraged option in the future, generally pressuring them to use an offensive option out of shield (if their up b is good enough), or jump. Usually it's the latter.