I hope we get previous iterations (old movesets) of certain characters (Melee Bowser, Smash 4 Link, etc.)

If we got previous iterations of characters' movesets, how should it be handled?

  • Give the old movesets to Echoes/Semi-Echoes

  • Select the old moveset after selecting the character on the screen

  • Mix of the above depending on the character


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Quillion

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#1
I know this opinion will come off as crazy to most people, but I miss the way certain characters were in previous installments. I know that disappointment with how characters are done is inevitable with changes between installments, but I still can't help it. Melee Bowser holds a special place in my heart (screw Ganondorf, Bowser was the REAL heavy monster of Melee), I'm already missing Link's old moves, and I miss Ganondorf's old Smash Attacks.

Now that Ultimate has the explicit goal of celebrating all of what was, is, and will be of Super Smash Bros., I feel that this is a good opportunity to bring back characters in a form that some people prefer them. If you wanted to play as Bowser with his old primal fury or Ganondorf with no sword use whatsoever, you could!

There are two ways they could do this:
  1. They could give the old movesets to Echoes or Semi-Echoes. This would be a good way of introducing old movesets with a new skin, but a lot of fans would dislike that their favorite moveset is on a character they don't want it on.
  2. They could add an option on the character select screen where if you select a fighter, there would be an optional switch (a la Mii Fighters) to switch to an old moveset. This would be a good way of giving old movesets back to the characters they were once on, though some would like those old movesets on a different character instead.
It doesn't even have to be an intentionally competitive deal, it can be a purely just-for-fun thing like customs were in Smash 4. And not every "old moveset" for every character has to come back a la the later versions of Street Fighter 2 (some like DK or Fox haven't really changed fundamentally since Smash 64); only the ones that are significantly different should come back.

If I were to make a list of these "significantly different" old movesets, this is what it would be:
  • :ultbowser:: His hunched-over, primal moveset from Melee. If this moveset comes back, current Bowser can keep the Flying Slam while "old" Bowser gets the Koopa Klaw instead.
  • :ultganondorf:: His Smash 4 moveset with no swords for his Smash Attacks.
  • :ultlink:: His Smash 4 moveset: left-handed stance, old bombs, Clawshot, and no double arrow mechanic on his neutral B.
  • :ultpit:: His Brawl moveset with the old specials: Mirror Shield, Angel Ring, and Wings of Icarus.
I know that really isn't much, but that could be a good thing. There would be no need to re-animate the old movesets for every character, just ones that are "significantly different." Heck, since Ultimate's engine is built to receive all of the old assets from Smash 4, Link and Ganondorf's old movesets could just be ported over with no problem.
 

Teeb147

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#2
I'm all for ideas, it's an interesting thought, but this wouldn't get much support.

Anyway, I'm curious if there's other people that can feel the same as you. Cuz.. really.. seems like it's a little out there. I guess it depends on being not progressive and tending to attach to things. Like nostalgia. But then I'd recommend just play those games.
Anyway, just a little chime in. I don't miss any old moves, ... maybe except for pika's back air from n64? (pm copied it, which is interesting.)
 

Quillion

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#3
I'm all for ideas, it's an interesting thought, but this wouldn't get much support.

Anyway, I'm curious if there's other people that can feel the same as you. Cuz.. really.. seems like it's a little out there. I guess it depends on being not progressive and tending to attach to things. Like nostalgia. But then I'd recommend just play those games.
Anyway, just a little chime in. I don't miss any old moves, ... maybe except for pika's back air from n64? (pm copied it, which is interesting.)
I won't name names, but I do know of some people who prefer Bowser in his primal, hunched state and others who prefer Link not having his BotW-based changes.
 

lordvaati

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#5
that sounds like something for a later installment if anything. Your idea has a bit of a Hyper Street Fighter II ring to it which I dig, but far too late down the pipeline for that addition. as for Koopa Claw, I'd say combining the 2 would be best-keep the melee grab but add the slam as an option by hitting jump.

It is worth noting though that I felt Brawl Olimar could have made a comeback with Alph getting his Smash4 set, but yeah too little too late.
 
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Teeb147

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#6
I won't name names, but I do know of some people who prefer Bowser in his primal, hunched state and others who prefer Link not having his BotW-based changes.
Wouldn't that be a change in animations and more than just moveset?
And I like the new link's stuff. But I get what you're saying. Some people are used to and like the hookshot and regular bombs.

It's just too unlikely, balancing alternate movesets on top of the huge roster.
I think this is a case where you just have to play the old games to get the old feel. It really isn't something that could happen for ultimate.

I can't see me posting anymore, gonna step out from this one. enjoy the dream.
 

DaDavid

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#7
Yeah in a perfect world we'd get MKX-esque styles where you pick Link for example and one style has his new bombs and grab while another has the old style.

I think there's obvious reasons why this would never be implemented, at least not with Ultimate. That said, some changes were strictly for the better, so I don't really see the point of giving people the option between a better version of something and a worse version of something.
 

Quillion

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#8
Yeah in a perfect world we'd get MKX-esque styles where you pick Link for example and one style has his new bombs and grab while another has the old style.

I think there's obvious reasons why this would never be implemented, at least not with Ultimate. That said, some changes were strictly for the better, so I don't really see the point of giving people the option between a better version of something and a worse version of something.
Like I said, they don't have to have this for every character. Just the significantly different ones. Kinda like how Palutena was the only non-Mii character to get unique customs.
 

DaDavid

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#9
Like I said, they don't have to have this for every character. Just the significantly different ones. Kinda like how Palutena was the only non-Mii character to get unique customs.
I get it, but then who draws that line? I'm sure for some fans even minor changes are things they prefer be reverted, while other couldn't care less.

I just don't see it being feasible, at least not in a way that would satisfy everybody. Satisfy you maybe, but, then there'd still be a minority of players hoping they bring Sheik's weird rope thing back.
 

Quillion

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#11
I get it, but then who draws that line? I'm sure for some fans even minor changes are things they prefer be reverted, while other couldn't care less.

I just don't see it being feasible, at least not in a way that would satisfy everybody. Satisfy you maybe, but, then there'd still be a minority of players hoping they bring Sheik's weird rope thing back.
I'd say a good gauge would be this:
  • Either three of these are different: Stance, Smash Attacks, Specials...
  • ...or five of any other attack/action are different.
Definitely not a perfect gauge, but a good start.

And the only reason to sate a vocal minority's demands is when it balloons into a massive un-ignorable force. Things like Ganondorf's moveset are safely ignorable while others like the demand for Ridley aren't.

Regardless of if this is a good idea or not, the community would 100% ban it.
It doesn't even have to be an intentionally competitive deal, it can be a purely just-for-fun thing like customs were in Smash 4.
Besides, even if people realize that "old movesets" are a just-for-fun deal, there could still be demand to improve upon the concept for better balance in a later game.
 

ZeroJinKui

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#12
the only thing i really miss is pit's ability to fly... he was one of my favorites in brawl.

but in smash 4, his wings were clipped, and he lacked quite a lot of mobility that he used to have, which caused me to drop him as someone i frequently played as.
 

Quillion

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#13
the only thing i really miss is pit's ability to fly... he was one of my favorites in brawl.

but in smash 4, his wings were clipped, and he lacked quite a lot of mobility that he used to have, which caused me to drop him as someone i frequently played as.
Maybe they could bring that back as "Classic Pit". Given that SSBB Pit was based on the Three Sacred Treasures, and Ultimate Pit has completely lost the treasures even from his Final Smash, something tells me that they have special plans for the treasures.
 

PrimeWill

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#14
I know this opinion will come off as crazy to most people, but I miss the way certain characters were in previous installments. I know that disappointment with how characters are done is inevitable with changes between installments, but I still can't help it. Melee Bowser holds a special place in my heart (screw Ganondorf, Bowser was the REAL heavy monster of Melee), I'm already missing Link's old moves, and I miss Ganondorf's old Smash Attacks.

Now that Ultimate has the explicit goal of celebrating all of what was, is, and will be of Super Smash Bros., I feel that this is a good opportunity to bring back characters in a form that some people prefer them. If you wanted to play as Bowser with his old primal fury or Ganondorf with no sword use whatsoever, you could!

There are two ways they could do this:
  1. They could give the old movesets to Echoes or Semi-Echoes. This would be a good way of introducing old movesets with a new skin, but a lot of fans would dislike that their favorite moveset is on a character they don't want it on.
  2. They could add an option on the character select screen where if you select a fighter, there would be an optional switch (a la Mii Fighters) to switch to an old moveset. This would be a good way of giving old movesets back to the characters they were once on, though some would like those old movesets on a different character instead.
It doesn't even have to be an intentionally competitive deal, it can be a purely just-for-fun thing like customs were in Smash 4. And not every "old moveset" for every character has to come back a la the later versions of Street Fighter 2 (some like DK or Fox haven't really changed fundamentally since Smash 64); only the ones that are significantly different should come back.

If I were to make a list of these "significantly different" old movesets, this is what it would be:
  • :ultbowser:: His hunched-over, primal moveset from Melee. If this moveset comes back, current Bowser can keep the Flying Slam while "old" Bowser gets the Koopa Klaw instead.
  • :ultganondorf:: His Smash 4 moveset with no swords for his Smash Attacks.
  • :ultlink:: His Smash 4 moveset: left-handed stance, old bombs, Clawshot, and no double arrow mechanic on his neutral B.
  • :ultpit:: His Brawl moveset with the old specials: Mirror Shield, Angel Ring, and Wings of Icarus.
I know that really isn't much, but that could be a good thing. There would be no need to re-animate the old movesets for every character, just ones that are "significantly different." Heck, since Ultimate's engine is built to receive all of the old assets from Smash 4, Link and Ganondorf's old movesets could just be ported over with no problem.
I agree with your idea with Link. As this game is supposed to include all past characters, the Link from all previous games had a hookshot and fused time bombs. I've been playing that version of Link since the first game. I'd be cool with an echo Ocarina of Time Link from the first 2 games and/or a Twilight Princess Link from the last few.

Without my main go-to character the game just wouldn't be the same. And I'm on the fence about buying the switch for this game like I did with the Wii U and it's smash version. The bombs are integral to my play style.

If there was a way to ask the Smash Developers for and Ocarina of Time echo Link I would send them a message or a petition in a heartbeat.

I'd be cool with the other ideas as well, but Link is the one that gets me, changing a character 5 games in and saying that it's the same character as before just isn't true.
 
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#15
Ocarina of Time Link as an echo for Young Link

And bring Twilight Princess Link

Make em all happy by adding them both and then we can see what Link is the better Link
 

Quillion

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#16
Ocarina of Time Link as an echo for Young Link

And bring Twilight Princess Link

Make em all happy by adding them both and then we can see what Link is the better Link
OOOOOHHHHH, that makes perfect sense!

I was thinking so much about making OoT Link an echo for current Link that I forgot that making him an echo of Young Link would work just as well!

And of course, they should still make TP Link an alt for him. Maybe they can throw in Classic Link (Zelda 1-ALttP Link) as another alt.
 

lucasla

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#17
Well, I think that it would almost if not entirely be as if they make new characters, since the moveset and animations would need to change and they would need to balance all diferences with the other characters as well.
Also, I don't like the fact that we can have the same character with different movesets, it would just be confusing to play against them. I understand your frustration, but I don't think it is possible or a good decision, unless if they create new characters.
 
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#20
Well what about brawl and four Link? he’s different enough from old 64, Melee Link. and the new Ultimate Link

OOOOOHHHHH, that makes perfect sense!

I was thinking so much about making OoT Link an echo for current Link that I forgot that making him an echo of Young Link would work just as well!

And of course, they should still make TP Link an alt for him. Maybe they can throw in Classic Link (Zelda 1-ALttP Link) as another alt.
Naw TP Link is his own Link, he keeps his gale boomerang, maybe add a fire effect to it

While I’m at it Dar Pit should of been the old Brawl style Pit
 
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