I have an idea for Bayonetta...

[NintendoGameGuy]

This may sound like such a salty thing to say, but honestly Bayonetta is broken. You can't seriously still be using the argument that, "Just SDI and learn the MU lmao" when you see top players dying at 30% from a broken combo *cough* *cough* Zero. Other characters have good combos as well but Bayonetta has more than that as well. She has (from the best of my knowledge) a good neutral, amazing recovery, witch time..., and well the combos. When it comes to characters most have one glaring advantage, Bayonetta has every possible advantage. To be honest I am not even that surprised by EVO 2017. It was only a matter of time before a player won major with her and this just solidifies her as broken. Not to discredit Salem at all because he is a great player but isn't kind of odd #12 in the world could be the undisputed best player in the world? It doesn't seem to add up to me.
Now that I just got that off my chest here is my idea: Bayonetta every time a match starts gets a 20% handicap... Now I know this a big idea to present, but let me explain myself the pros and the cons of this idea.
PROS-
- It would fairly nerf Bayonetta to a great character but not the best
- Would create less salt among the community
- Make her more patient and technical instead of just running in
CONS-
- Controversial
- Applying it to tournaments all of the world
Now I am only one voice and I know it sounds insane and I am sure this will only get maybe 20 views lol. However I just thought I'd share my opinion on a topic that is most likely going to be up and coming soon. Any feedback?

Also just thought I'd make a poll about this topic

 

[FamilyTeam]

No.
Handicaps are justice for nobody.
Pre-patch Sheik and Diddy still have accomplished far more than she has and this would still be ludicrous if applied to them.
What would this nerf accomplish? How is it fair that she needs to start with a disadvantage? Are you trying to level her with who exactly? "The rest of the cast" isn't an answer.

 

[Zerp]

Sorry, but there's three things that make me disagree with this concept:
1. We shouldn't be changing the ruleset just to combat a character unless they're truly broken enough to warrant it, and Post-Patch Bayonetta does not warrant it.

2. Bayonetta is not significantly better than the other Top Tiers (I'd argue Diddy and Cloud may even be slightly better than her), if we're actually going to nerf her then we better nerf Diddy, Cloud, etc, just as harshly.

3. If we actually were to start meddling with any character's viability by altering the ruleset, then at that point we should just patch the game ourselves instead of relying on something as flimsy as percent to try rebalancing the game.

 

[AkiraGr]

Zero is that you? Give me a break... Did you See Zero suit Samus and Rozalina in this EVO? Ladder Combos from Zero Suit killed at 20% with rage. So was Rozalinas Up airs. The salt is through the roof with Bayonetta again.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

If bayo was broken, there would be a huve gap betwren her and the rest of cast.

Don't remember a huge gap.

 

[MercuryPenny]

as much as i hate bayonetta, she's no worse than cloud honestly. and even if she was blatantly overpowered like meta knight or pre-patch diddy, i'd be more in favor of banning her outright than applying an arbitrary % handicap.

 

[Flamegeyser]

I lost it at "good neutral"
Also so what if the #11 player beat the #1, this tournament was full of **** like this, even inside the top 8.
You see, even if you were even remotely right (you're not, I could spend a good half hour pointing out what's wrong), if we nerf her to not make her the best character, we'd just have a new best character. What good is it to just remove a best character and put a new one in her place?

 

[KirbCider]

Please tell me this is satire of some sort. We seriously can't be having another Witch Hunt Ver 2.0 on our hands just because the first major Bayonetta won a big Tournament like this. Is it because everyone isn't happy that a Bayonetta beat ZeRo...?

This may sound like such a salty thing to say, but honestly Bayonetta is broken. You can't seriously still be using the argument that, "Just SDI and learn the MU lmao" when you see top players dying at 30% from a broken combo *cough* *cough* Zero. Also just thought I'd make a poll about this topic

Yes. Yes it is a salty thing to say. Bayonetta is far from broken especially after the nerfing she got months back.

And why are you ignoring everything else that happened during EVO? As AkiraGr stated we saw a lot more than just Bayonetta pulling off such things during the matches. And yes, you do need to learn how to SDI and learn the MU. Bayonetta does have some tough ones (projectile users can be a bit tough for her for example), and I've had dozens of opponents SDI out of her combos properly before. You also really need to keep in mind to mix up your escapes to leave her guessing to make it harder.

Other characters have good combos as well but Bayonetta has more than that as well. She has (from the best of my knowledge) a good neutral, amazing recovery, witch time..., and well the combos. When it comes to characters most have one glaring advantage, Bayonetta has every possible advantage. To be honest I am not even that surprised by EVO 2017. It was only a matter of time before a player won major with her and this just solidifies her as broken. Not to discredit Salem at all because he is a great player but isn't kind of odd #12 in the world could be the undisputed best player in the world? It doesn't seem to add up to me.

Also, what part of her exactly is so broken suddenly? This isn't the first major ZeRo has lost, and what about all the other Bayonettas in EVO? What about the ones that WERE beaten? Did you also not notice how close the final match was exactly?

They had to do another set, and even then it lead to one final round between them. It's not like it was lop-sided. It was close.

Very close.

You honestly sound like a ZeRo fanboy who is just upset that he didn't win. That or you aren't acknowledging the other major tournaments he has lost at as well. And why can't someone end up climbing to the top? Why does ZeRo have to be the only top player that can't lose? Whose to say Salem didn't pour all the blood, sweat, and effort into practicing for this and it paid off?

Does ZeRo seriously have to be the only one in the spotlight at all times? Even the best players can goof and slip up. And I'm with Flamegeyser with the whole "Good Neutral" thing. There's quite a few things that put her at an disadvantage as well...

Also, Bayonetta is a Bait & Punish/Combo character and lacks a bit on the approach options. What about her isn't patient?

 

[Deleted member]

Oh no, sweetheart. Thou shalt not apply handicaps to my girl Bayo as this does no justice for anyone. So what if ZeRo lost to a ? There will be other tournaments, you know. Let me repeat what some of you just said: "Learn the matchup and practice SDI'ing from her combos." I say anyone still mad about Bayo should stop playing Smash and get into Kakuro puzzles or something...

 

[Skwrl]

There is no need to nerf her. It isn't like we are dealing with Brawl's MK. She is a good character, but anything is possible with hard work and learning the MU.

 

[Starkuss]

I don't think it's fair to call any character broken because it implies that the player didn't deserve the win.

 

[HerbsnSpices910]

as much as i hate bayonetta, she's no worse than cloud honestly. and even if she was blatantly overpowered like meta knight or pre-patch diddy, i'd be more in favor of banning her outright than applying an arbitrary % handicap.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

I honestly have more of a problem with Cloud at this point. Not to say that Bayonetta isn't broken, but rather that they both are and should be very slightly nerfed for the sake of balance.

In response to the OP, I don't think a 20% handicap is very fair. That's like 1/5 of a stock, which is a significant nerf. I'm all for nerfing Bayonetta and Cloud but that doesn't mean forcing them to mid tiers.

 

[Ze Diglett]

lolno. If a character were genuinely broken enough to the point where they actually needed a handicap to "nerf" them, it'd probably be easier to just ban them at that point, and one can hardly call Bayo in her current state banworthy.

 

[dav3yb]

Although it's not a great idea for normal play, it might make an interesting side-event to mix things up. Doing something like a "ratio-match" or something, where player handicap is determined by the difference in tiers that each player selects.

Might need to compress a few tiers if you do this to make sure you don't end up with a jiggly puff vs a bayo that already has 70% on her.

 

[SJMistery]

It would be better to simply restrict the usage to once in a best-of-3 match or 1-2 times in a best-of-5, essentially turning her a counterpick-only caracther.

 

[SN Kurse]

She isn't genuinely broken at all, though. And a small % handicap would help nobody in any situation to start a game.

 

[Deleted member]

Do y'all solemnly believe that the 1.1.6 patch wasn't enough? I get that y'all are still frustrated with her, but you will have to accept the fact there is practically nothing you can do outside of learning the matchup. You really cannot stop anybody from choosing in tournament (or even casual) play any more than you can stop anyone from taunting, teabagging, and insulting in online modes. Now, the quicker you accept this, the better time you'll have playing this game.

 

[Spiwizzle]

I think that just telling people in a competition that they can't use Bayonnaise the whole match (like a user above suggested) or maybe even just a handicap (which should start higher, 20 is too low to influence either side's outcome really) that rises or falls as the player wins or loses would be enough. Also, I really don't think that she's so broken as people make her out to be, Cloud and even Sheik come to mind too, but they're not nearly as GOD MODE OVERPOWERED UNBEATABLE BROKEN SHOULD BE BANNED as people say they are... Only if you A) know what you're doing and B) want to ruin someone's day

 

[Hydgen]

This may sound like such a salty thing to say, but honestly Bayonetta is broken. You can't seriously still be using the argument that, "Just SDI and learn the MU lmao" when you see top players dying at 30% from a broken combo *cough* *cough* Zero. Other characters have good combos as well but Bayonetta has more than that as well. She has (from the best of my knowledge) a good neutral, amazing recovery, witch time..., and well the combos. When it comes to characters most have one glaring advantage, Bayonetta has every possible advantage. To be honest I am not even that surprised by EVO 2017. It was only a matter of time before a player won major with her and this just solidifies her as broken. Not to discredit Salem at all because he is a great player but isn't kind of odd #12 in the world could be the undisputed best player in the world? It doesn't seem to add up to me.
Now that I just got that off my chest here is my idea: Bayonetta every time a match starts gets a 20% handicap... Now I know this a big idea to present, but let me explain myself the pros and the cons of this idea.
PROS-
- It would fairly nerf Bayonetta to a great character but not the best
- Would create less salt among the community
- Make her more patient and technical instead of just running in
CONS-
- Controversial
- Applying it to tournaments all of the world
Now I am only one voice and I know it sounds insane and I am sure this will only get maybe 20 views lol. However I just thought I'd share my opinion on a topic that is most likely going to be up and coming soon. Any feedback?

Also just thought I'd make a poll about this topic

is fine as she is.


Play defensively, and use correct SDI.
I made a forum about Bayonetta a while ago, and that has tons ways to beat her.
They don't need a handicap.

Cya

 

[Ad3n]

You do realize Hoo Hah killed at like 90...

 

[Crystanium]

Zero is that you? Give me a break... Did you See Zero suit Samus and Rozalina in this EVO? Ladder Combos from Zero Suit killed at 20% with rage. So was Rozalinas Up airs. The salt is through the roof with Bayonetta again.

ZSS killed at 20% with rage. I won't deny that. The thing is, ZSS isn't even comparable to Bayonetta. The u-air 3x + up special is limited. It only becomes effective between 30% to 50%. Up special can easily be DI'ed, and even if it connects, it doesn't necessarily KO, since skilled players DI well enough to survive. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but no matter how much percent the opponent has, and no matter how much rage Bayonetta has, she can use the same combo. As for Rosalina? Who cares about her? She's not as common as Bayonetta. Then again, neither is ZSS.