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i'm desperately low-level, bottom-of-the-barrel trash at smash 4 and it's demotivating as hell to lose to a for glory spammer or a bayonetta who is literal trash at the game. i've never gone to a tournament, and i know only one person who is challenging without being leagues better than i am (and his free time is pretty limited).
i already know what my flaws as a player are - i shield, spot dodge and roll predictably and way too often, i suck at edgeguarding, i suck at punishing, and i'd be overestimating myself by miles if i said i was good at the neutral game. every time i play the game, at some point i'll just end up being demotivated by the people i let myself get beaten by and get mad that i get freshman 40d by a kirby player. in the end, i always feel like trash at the game even though this is the only thing i've put any investment into for the past few months.
i'm not sure how to deal with any of this. i can't just keep playing because i don't feel like i'm learning anything from "just playing" and i don't know how to get rid of bad habits. anyone got any suggestions?
Bad habits are a hard thing to get rid of, when you are playing you need to actually be trying and actively thinking about things you should and shouldn't do. A couple suggestions are too not practice against level 9 cpus as they are very predictable. Additionally a good idea is too practice combos and setups against a level 1 CPU in a 99 stock match it is much better to practice these against a moving opponent. Look up videos to help and watch Tournament clips.
I don't know how much help this will be, but what I think has helped me is going to a local tournament. If there are any nearby where you live its a good way to get experience and I think its helped me so much. If that isn't an option then I could suggest joining Smash Discords and try practicing against people there.
watching the vid i've noticed that the three main moves you use are neutral air, down air and neutral special, and dair is used the most frequently. from what i've seen dair isn't the best approach to your foe (mario players, correct me if i'm wrong) since your last hit which is the most knockback never really hit, which resulted in you getting punished. with nair you sometimes fastfall which results in being grabbed or aerial attacked. one time you did nair, fastfall into upsmash which could have worked well as a read if you read right. neutral special wasn't a problem this time since your foe never reflected it back. you also did a lot of getup attacks, if your foe payed attention to that pattern you would get punished, so try mixing your recovery on the ledge up a little? and yeah, bad habits suck. it's trying to avoid your foe predicting your movements and getting into your head. i'm not a great player either, i do pretty well but i constantly get bodied. i guess finding the right player for you to practise with could help. i hope that anything i said was useful
also im sorry if ive made you feel worse hahh
i literally never play against level 9s. sometimes i play against a level 8 once or twice to warm up but usually i just hop online immediately
Additionally a good idea is too practice combos and setups against a level 1 CPU in a 99 stock match it is much better to practice these against a moving opponent.
i hear this a lot but it's not really what i need to work on. it's largely my neutral and reads that are the problem.
I don't know how much help this will be, but what I think has helped me is going to a local tournament. If there are any nearby where you live its a good way to get experience and I think its helped me so much.
i'd prefer learning to drive before i go to any tournaments, since i don't like asking favors of anyone (not even my family). i'll keep it in mind but i don't think it's anything i'm ready to do yet
i guess finding the right player for you to practise with could help.
as i mentioned in the first post, i have a close friend who's about as good as i am and we hold a pretty much even record. the problems are schedule conflicts and not being able to play in person very often, but we try to play online once or twice a week at least.
i think what i need is more players and specific suggestions. your post is pretty helpful, i'll prolly keep it on hand next time i play
Hi! I'm not an expert, but I have a few tips I could give you:
1. Grab more. I noticed you didn't grab too often during that match with Waluigi Mario. Definitely take advantage of Mario's great combos, such as Down throw to Up tilt, up tilt, up tilt.... etc.
2. Try new characters. I'm not saying ditch Mario, obviously, but maybe there's someone out there you think better fits your playstyle. If you haven't already, fight some CPUs while selecting random and see who you like playing a lot of. If Mario's your favorite, keep maining him, but if you find you like someone else, you could always move them to the spotlight, or as your secondary.
3. Fight some CPUs. I recommend the highest level you find manageable, then move up towards 9. Level 9's will punish pretty much any mistake you make, making them great to point out what you do wrong and what you could do. And add some platformed stages to the random stage selection instead of just omega this and omega that. In a tournament setting, you can play on stages like Battlefield or Dreamland (non-omega) which benefit Mario's combos like up air strings.
4. Online guides! There are a lot of online guides on the internet, be it videos or forum posts. They can range from entire character analysis to combo tutorials. Just search up "Smash 4 (your character's name) guide" or "(your character's name) combos Smash 4" on google and you'll surely find something to help you.
I hope this helps you. Remember, don't feel like you're bad. It may be tough, but you'll definitely excel over time.
1. Grab more. I noticed you didn't grab too often during that match with Waluigi Mario. Definitely take advantage of Mario's great combos, such as Down throw to Up tilt, up tilt, up tilt.... etc.
but this goes back to the beginning: i'm so predictable that i almost always miss my grabs. and often times, it's at 0% and i don't have it in my muscle memory to get something that does work at 0%.
2. Try new characters. I'm not saying ditch Mario, obviously, but maybe there's someone out there you think better fits your playstyle. If you haven't already, fight some CPUs while selecting random and see who you like playing a lot of. If Mario's your favorite, keep maining him, but if you find you like someone else, you could always move them to the spotlight, or as your secondary.
i've poked around the rest of the cast and usually, they aren't super fun. i actually played ness for a while before i decided i was being held back as a player and needed a way to turn off the autopilot i had been running on almost constantly while playing the game.
3. Fight some CPUs. I recommend the highest level you find manageable, then move up towards 9. Level 9's will punish pretty much any mistake you make, making them great to point out what you do wrong and what you could do. And add some platformed stages to the random stage selection instead of just omega this and omega that. In a tournament setting, you can play on stages like Battlefield or Dreamland (non-omega) which benefit Mario's combos like up air strings.
i actually fought cpus almost exclusively for about half a year, up until two months ago or so. i can two-stock level 8s almost effortlessly. thing is, i've fought cpus for so long that i think some of the muscle memory for fighting cpus is still there and that's why i can get two-stocked against a bayonetta spamming smash attacks, rolls, and witch time.
dad watches me play a lot and he says this all the time. it's really, really hard not to feel like garbage that when people who i think i outclass by a quarter mile body me effortlessly.
I'm really bad at Smash too, the most advice I could possibly give you is to learn as you go, playing against CPU and maybe even watching some videos about your character, I hope that helped!
i'm not sure how to deal with any of this. i can't just keep playing because i don't feel like i'm learning anything from "just playing" and i don't know how to get rid of bad habits. anyone got any suggestions?
Sadly, "Just playing" is part of the process of getting better.
It's just like any other skill you want to get better at. You can study everything you can about it but in the end unless you put actual effort into it you aren't going to get very far. Practice is extremely important and you can't rely on just guides alone.
And just because you feel like you aren't learning anything or aren't improving doesn't mean you're not.
You may not notice it right away and you cannot get demotivated or stressed if you feel like you aren't budging. The most important thing to remember is skills are learned and are often gained from a lot of practice (drawing being one example).
No one is magically blessed with a skill.
They earn it.
"But a lot of people just seem like pure naturals at this", you may say; however you have no idea what they've done to get where they are. If someone games a lot to the point they're playing a massive variety of different games then chances are they may already have the skills required to play the other. Don't forget skills learned from different games can often translate to others.
Now that the pep talk is over (hope it helped you and anyone else that may feel discouraged) here are some tips to improve:
1. Read and/or watch Guides
There are guides everywhere about Smash if you look hard enough. There's several videos on Youtube and a ton of various Guides right here on SmashBoards. Study guides on your character and learn what they're capable of. Their combos, their kill confirms, their match-ups, and whatever else that can benefit the character. Possessing knowledge of them can do wonders!
Pro Tip: If you do this, keep an eye on the date of when the guide was posted! We've received several patches, after all.
2. Seriously, PRACTICE
Like I have already stated, you can read and study guides all you want but in the end you have to put in effort if you wish to get better. I understand that not everyone has the time to practice daily and that's alright. Not even I have time to practice constantly; however, whenever you find time to do it, do it. I can't stress enough that it takes effort to truly "Git Gud" at Smash.
3. Go against HUMAN opponents, not CPUs
CPUs are dumb. While they can be used to help you practice certain things (like techs, combos, etc) they do not take advantage of what the character can truly do the majority of the time. A Ganondorf CPU will not even attempt to Ganoncide you, and many CPUs ignore certain recovery options (Bayonetta CPUs especially don't take advantage of her own recovery options). Not to mention a human opponent will read you, know techs, and may even know how to deal with your character.
"Well, I don't know anyone I can really Smash with!"
There's For Glory (although it's not quite recommended if you want to improve greatly)
There's SmashBoards (we have Threads dedicated for finding opponents for both the 3DS & Wii U)
There's Anthers Ladder (although it seems to be a more "Competitive" scene, but still good)
There's also Smash Discords you can use.
If it comes down to it, randomly message a few folks here on SmashBoards and develop a friendship (or rivalry even) with them so you have someone long term you can actively Smash against. There's really no harm in trying that, right...?
4. Save Replays and seek advice
I'm glad you already did this in your post, but keep in mind to keep doing it. People can catch certain things you may not be able to on your own. There's a Mario section here on SmashBoards for Mario Mains and advice. Post your replays there too.
5. Don't just study things about your character, study EVERYTHING
There's a lot to Smash than one would expect. There's plenty of extra guides out there that teach the basics, neutral, techs, and a heck of a lot more. There's even Youtube Channels dedicated to this (MySmashCorner & BeefySmashDoods). Use 'em.
Whew. This post has gotten pretty long, hasn't it? I apologize for that and hope you've taken the time to read everything.
At the risk of making this post even longer, and despite not being a Mario main here is what I observed:
1. You rolled at times where it wasn't exactly necessary. If you shield/dodge at times where it's not necessary you can unintentionally miss a chance at doing a punish or something else you could of done to turn the match in your favor.
2. Too much use of Dair. It will get predictable, and if your opponent had a counter you would of been done in easily.
2.5. Too much use of his jab attack as well, and don't forget you don't have to extend it either. You can set up a good mind game to make your opponent think you're going to do so to prolong their shield and get them with a grab for it.
3. While you tried to grab often, you really didn't bank on Marios grab combos that he can do and tried to do certain ones when your opponent already exceeded the percent necessary for it. Keep in mind different ones are needed for different percents.
4. You almost always went for a jump followed by fireball when you were off stage. At the very least do fireball first so you can save your jump in case you end up getting hit, but also try to not do it as much in general or you will get predictable.
5. You seemed rather timid and afraid in your match. While it's good to be defensive you really didn't apply much pressure to your opponent because of it. I'm not saying you should always be in their face because that can also be quite bad, but you need to be able to force a reaction out of them. Try some fireballs instead of shielding and rolling away so much or try some spaced aerials instead. Don't let your fear control you. I know it's really difficult but sometimes being brave can be worth it.
I can relate to y'all. I've been playing Smash since 2005 beginning with Melee and I ain't anywhere close to tournament level myself. But then I witnessed advanced techniques and practiced them for myself to get by. For example, I started practicing wobbling and with the time slowed down. Most of the time I only rack up 15-50% damage with this but I don't let this frustrate me too much. I sometimes overuse jabs and grabs like level 9 CPUs do in that game, but I've dropped that habit over time.
Right...the only way to improve is practice, stay patient, and stop worrying overmuch about winning. Now, there are guides and character forums as reputable resources. Y'all had a few people here critique your match just now, and that goes a long way too. I personally view matchup vids on Smashvods to help with my and play. Maybe that can motivate y'all a bit to practice.
Hey dude if you want someone to practice with, give me a shout I'm in need of a sparring partner and could maybe learn a thing or two playing with you and vice versa. I'll give you my wii u FC if you take me up on this offer.
Forgot to mention that my dad used to do the same thing to me when I started playing brawl and occasionally still does it while I'm playing 4. But I just used that as motivation to keep me going, and I'll make a quote to the smash documentary "If you're losing you obviously haven't gotten your a** kicked enough!"
I think I can help out with this a lot since I main Jigglypuff. Patience really helps out, let your opponent attack first and if there is a way to punish them, go for it. Edge guarding can be hard but I would say try to bait air dodges and punish with a spike. Try and find someone who can coach you so you can drop the habits you have and try and get out in the community more. I personally haven't done that but ive been looking forward to it. That's what I've got, hope it helpa
Whenever I improve, it comes in waves. Training buddies are probably the best way I've found, since you and your mate can keep adapting (at least in my experience) Also, don't be afraid to try new things. Going to tournaments is a good way to meet people who can show you new things.
wobbling and with the time slowed down. Most of the time I only rack up 15-50% damage with this but I don't let this frustrate me too much. I sometimes overuse jabs and grabs like level 9 CPUs do in that game, but I've dropped that habit over time.
