I dont think vilager is as good as people say

[MillionGoldMan]

Before i say anything, let me say that this is WITHOUT customs. I know that his customs are on a whole other level, but with people still deciding whether to be customs or no customs.

Now, to what this is about

I have mained villager ever since the special demo codes were released , and have just kept on playing him and using him until now. I have played hours upon hours up to this point and watched replays of him
But I think he's overrated.
Not bad, but overrated.
I've heard people put villager as one of the best characters in the game.
I just cant see him as that. I think he has too many weaknesses to make him as good as he is. Yes, he can be annoying to face and difficult, but he still has strong weaknesses that im not going into here

Am I the only one who thinks this way?

 

[TR33]

As the meta stands, with the information we have at hand, and the players representing the characters that they've chosen. I'd agree, he/she definitely isn't one of the best characters in the game. However, which what he does have I'd put him high tier still. He has excellent zoning tools, decent frames, good get off me options, the ability to be played in multiple distinct ways [ trap, camp, zone, aggro ], good neutral, and excellent off stage pressure/ gimping. This is a game with characters like shiek and rosa running around though. We've also got some not so favorable m/u's against even characters that aren't considered top [ mario (imo), mega man]. All of this being said I've never heard anyone overrating villager, save for the beginning of customs and the trip sap, and think he's definitely a solid high tier option.

 

[JohnnyB]

Villager is balanced. If he were to be anything above high tier he would have to have something that puts him over the top, but he just doesn't. Shiek has some of the last punishable options in the game + she's un-gimpable, Luigi has his amazing grab game + Fireball, Zss will cause you immense pain/death with a single grab + is extremely quick, Rosalina has all kinds of great things with Luma. Villager Doesn't have anything like that. He has a diverse, unique and, incredible moveset, but there isn't anything overwhelmingly powerful about it. Bottom of top tier is stretching it without customs. I put villager somewhere in high tier, probably near the top, but possibly near the bottom.

 

[TOGOpuff]

sheik isn't ungimpable.

 

[JohnnyB]

sheik isn't ungimpable.

Right, everyone has ledge snap vulnerability.

When i said ungimpable i didn't mean that attacks literally pass right through her until she is back on stage.

 

[AJL]

Maybe Villager is a little overrated, but I think it's more important that he's fun to play.

 

[Lochy]

Maybe Villager is a little overrated, but I think it's more important that he's fun to play.

Agreed. I always placed him as high on the cast (probably top 10) but not top 5 imo and has glaring issues and has obvious bad matchups unlike sheik and rosalina that don't have a matchup they struggle in.

 

[Mtn64]

I think that people overrate villagers moves
People overreact to the range of slingshot and what a 'great' projectile it is and how it's overpowered, yet in neutral its gonna do like 4% each hit, and as a kill move its usually offstage since it's generally stale in the first place.
Another thing people complain about is villagers 'great kill power.' People realllyyyy overestimate FSmash. Its clanked by like everything in the game, has long startup, and has no priority. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Fsmash is terrible because that's far from the truth with it being safe on shield and all, but it's far from overpowered. Besides Fsmash and OoS axe, our kill moves are all situational gimmicks.
Last thing I'm gonna mention is the fact that people think our recovery is some godly unparalleled recovery. It's relatively slow and has no hitbox. To top it off with the new nerf, balloons pop ez-pz and if we miss tech we aren't coming back anyways (usually)
All in all I've played villager since special demo and don't plan on dropping her ever. Just think she's a bit misunderstood by others and as the game grows I only see us dropping in tiers.

 

[monzer]

I would consider Villager to be in the higher part of high tier. The one thing that holds villager back is his lack of a strong neutral game. His edgegaurding and gimping is amazing though, and I only see that getting better. With customs I think Villager is probably in the lower part of high tier.

 

[Darklink401]

IMO, Villager is broken. I...don't really have much to say ABOUT that, I just, feel Villager is broken xD

 

[MillionGoldMan]

IMO, Villager is broken. I...don't really have much to say ABOUT that, I just, feel Villager is broken xD

explain

 

[Darklink401]

explain

Arguably the best nair in the game, as well as one of the best projectiles (lloid). Longest recovery, which, while it's punishable, can still reach from anywhere. An edgeguard setup that's super difficult to get past. Lingering hitboxes, ability to go as far as he wants to gimp characters, as well as amazing gimp potential.

Just, when I play him, I feel he's unfair xD

 

[whitekirby9]

you have to use him correctly,
even Melee Kirby can be used to be Over Powered
i think Villager And WTF are Joke charaters, but they can be used correctly!

 

[MillionGoldMan]

Arguably the best nair in the game, as well as one of the best projectiles (lloid). Longest recovery, which, while it's punishable, can still reach from anywhere. An edgeguard setup that's super difficult to get past. Lingering hitboxes, ability to go as far as he wants to gimp characters, as well as amazing gimp potential.

Just, when I play him, I feel he's unfair xD

but we cant forget his weaknesses.

rushdown characters, lack of options to deal with shields...

 

[monzer]

but we cant forget his weaknesses.

rushdown characters, lack of options to deal with shields...

But his strengths outweigh his weaknesses. Weaknesses and bad matchups don't matter as much as strengths because they can be covered by a secondary. Captian Falcon and Luigi basically cover all of his weaknesses.

Really, why is is that most people who main a character always downplay that character?

 

[Darklink401]

but we cant forget his weaknesses.

rushdown characters, lack of options to deal with shields...

Does he really have an issue with rushdown though? I'm starting to think he really doesn't xD The fact he has that amazing nair, and those lingering upair and dairs, make me feel he's actually rather good under pressure (as opposed to, say, Megaman)

And his weakness with shields, really doesn't matter much if you just wait it out or projectile-barrage the shield (plus, with lloid, they're forced out of shield, unless they wanna get grabbed xD)

 

[monzer]

Villager only has trouble with really fast rushdown characters like sonic or Captian Falcon.

 

[Darklink401]

Villager only has trouble with really fast rushdown characters like sonic or Captian Falcon.

Nah, Sonic and Captain Falcon are easy to deal with XP Captain Falcon, moreso.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

Nah, Sonic and Captain Falcon are easy to deal with XP Captain Falcon, moreso.

Yeah, I was starting to learn that too. My toughest MUs have been recently especially on FD, although the fact that you can pocket his pikmin when flung makes it a bit more tolerable and interesting. (Pocketed Purples break Shields.)

 

[monzer]

Yeah, I was starting to learn that too. My toughest MUs have been recently especially on FD, although the fact that you can pocket his pikmin when flung makes it a bit more tolerable and interesting. (Pocketed Purples break Shields.)

Thoose are some of villagers best matchups, who can just spam pocket and nullify most of megaman's moveset.

 

[MillionGoldMan]

Thoose are some of villagers best matchups, who can just spam pocket and nullify most of megaman's moveset.

did he just say...

Does he really have an issue with rushdown though? I'm starting to think he really doesn't xD The fact he has that amazing nair, and those lingering upair and dairs, make me feel he's actually rather good under pressure (as opposed to, say, Megaman)

i thought everybody had problems with it and i was just able to cope with it,

 

[Darklink401]

Thoose are some of villagers best matchups, who can just spam pocket and nullify most of megaman's moveset.

*laughs internally*

Just cuz we can pocket, doesn't mean we win XD

Metal Blade is annoying, pellets are annoying.

Megaman is certainly one of our worst MUs. Olimar, I don't think one of our worst, but by his shortness, he's troublesome.

 

[monzer]

*laughs internally*

Just cuz we can pocket, doesn't mean we win XD

Metal Blade is annoying, pellets are annoying.

Megaman is certainly one of our worst MUs. Olimar, I don't think one of our worst, but by his shortness, he's troublesome.

Ok, I never really faced a good Megaman before. The only Meganan players I've ever fought are for glory, and the spamming pocket was working.

Annoyed thing I want to bring up is that Villager's gimping game is probably the best in the game. Because of this, Villager has good matchups with all characters with poor recovery. Bowling ball dropped off he stage can also kill at 30%. Villager is just so different from the rest of the cast that he has to be high tirr at least. It's clear he was intended to be a troll character, and they definitely succeded in that.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

*laughs internally*

Just cuz we can pocket, doesn't mean we win XD

Metal Blade is annoying, pellets are annoying.

Megaman is certainly one of our worst MUs. Olimar, I don't think one of our worst, but by his shortness, he's troublesome.

You need to play Dabuz.

 

[Darklink401]

You need to play Dabuz.

What about Dabuz? XD

I dislike his playstyle, but I've come to terms with the Rosalina MU.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

What about Dabuz? XD

I dislike his playstyle, but I've come to terms with the Rosalina MU.

Not his Rosa, his Olimar.

 

[Wonderf]

I don't like characters with reflectors.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

I don't like characters with reflectors.

and can reflect almost for free, although the MU is still possible for Villager I still highly recommend picking up a secondary that can handle those threats.

 

[monzer]

and can reflect almost for free, although the MU is still possible for Villager I still highly recommend picking up a secondary that can handle those threats.

Yeah but Falco and Palutina aren't really the best secondaries for Villagers bad matchups, as they aren't very viable against top/high tiers to begin with, they won't be able to cover all of his bad matchups.
All also have reflectors and are better against top tiers.

 

[Wonderf]

Yeah but Falco and Palutina aren't really the best secondaries for Villagers bad matchups, as they aren't very viable against top/high tiers to begin with, they won't be able to cover all of his bad matchups.
All also have reflectors and are better against top tiers.

@ Tommy - S.N. was talking about getting secondaries to fight against Palutena and Falco.

Also, for Villager secondaries, I really like using rush down characters in Villager's bad match-ups, what does everyone think.

 

[JohnnyB]

Tbh i don't think falcos reflector is that good. I can ususlly short hop over it to punish (if we're taking lloids). Palutenas is much more problematic though due to the pushback effect and the fact that age can actv while it is still active. Fun fact though, if you read the reflector and don't have a lloid out or anything, you can sh into the reflector, get stuck, and fair her in the face before she can act. It's super super situational but it's the most satisfying thing in the world if you pull it off.

 

[monzer]

I generally don't have much trouble with Palutina, as I can usually combo her very easily, but that may just be because I've never really played a good Palutina.

I've had the most trouble with Rosalina, that's the only terrible matchup I've ever experienced.

Yeah rushdown or bait and punish characters are the best as secondaries for villager.

 

[Blank Arrows]

Most Of The Community Don't Use Villager :/

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

Tbh i don't think falcos reflector is that good. I can ususlly short hop over it to punish (if we're taking lloids). Palutenas is much more problematic though due to the pushback effect and the fact that age can actv while it is still active. Fun fact though, if you read the reflector and don't have a lloid out or anything, you can sh into the reflector, get stuck, and fair her in the face before she can act. It's super super situational but it's the most satisfying thing in the world if you pull it off.

I generally don't have much trouble with Palutina, as I can usually combo her very easily, but that may just be because I've never really played a good Palutina.

I've had the most trouble with Rosalina, that's the only terrible matchup I've ever experienced.

Yeah rushdown or bait and punish characters are the best as secondaries for villager.

is 100% not an easy MU, if you've ever played Admiral Pit he will show you how bad she walls Villager. Her shield is

amazing and has "priority" in a sense and her Reflect is can be annoying but there are ways around it. (Palu had me suffering from back pain ) Oh and if you all have trouble then just ride your Lloids into them as a Mix Up and you can also ditch the

Lloid while riding if you see her about to jump over it.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

Most Of The Community Don't Use Villager :/

Yeah along w/ whom all are neglected by most compared to where their placements are on the tier list.

 

[Jell0]

Villager is one of those characters that could be top 5-7...and then faces a character with a good neutral. Rushdown characters aren't as bad imo. Villager is janky in the way that II think he/she goes even with the top tiers except for sheik, Rosa (obv,) and Pikachu(but only slightly), and sonic. I, and Poke (best Canadian luigi) believe that villager beats luigi. Or just does very well, if you play safe and not get grabbed you win neutral and just get that epic chip damage.ZSS vs Villager is 50-50 I think, I have played V115 and you just need to camp ledge pretty much, in a way that you don't leave yourself open. Playing safe but sort of aggro.The reason villager Isn't top 5-7 in game is because of janky losses to characters lower in the tiers. Our worst MU is a character that's barely top 20 (Megaman). Tl;Dr- Idk let the meta game advance, villager can be super good but loses to jank and good neutral games.

 

[Darklink401]

Villager is one of those characters that could be top 5-7...and then faces a character with a good neutral. Rushdown characters aren't as bad imo. Villager is janky in the way that II think he/she goes even with the top tiers except for sheik, Rosa (obv,) and Pikachu(but only slightly), and sonic. I, and Poke (best Canadian luigi) believe that villager beats luigi. Or just does very well, if you play safe and not get grabbed you win neutral and just get that epic chip damage.ZSS vs Villager is 50-50 I think, I have played V115 and you just need to camp ledge pretty much, in a way that you don't leave yourself open. Playing safe but sort of aggro.The reason villager Isn't top 5-7 in game is because of janky losses to characters lower in the tiers. Our worst MU is a character that's barely top 20 (Megaman). Tl;Dr- Idk let the meta game advance, villager can be super good but loses to jank and good neutral games.

I'd say Villager vs Rosa is 50-50, as is Villager vs Sheik. (call me crazy, but it's how I feel xD)

Villager vs Pika is more annoying, because Pika is tiny, but in Pika's favor.

Villager beats Luigi 60-40, but you GOTTA know, that to win, you WILL have to camp HARD.

Hmm...ZSS...I feel it's 50-50, yeah. Being able to pocket stungun is a huge plus.

 

[Jell0]

I'd say Villager vs Rosa is 50-50, as is Villager vs Sheik. (call me crazy, but it's how I feel xD)

Villager vs Pika is more annoying, because Pika is tiny, but in Pika's favor.

Villager beats Luigi 60-40, but you GOTTA know, that to win, you WILL have to camp HARD.

Hmm...ZSS...I feel it's 50-50, yeah. Being able to pocket stungun is a huge plus.

Pika is annoying but it's easy to lloid and fair spam, usually stay right at the ledge to be closer to Pikachu's height, nair is really good because it trades/beats quick attack.
Sheik? Idk..I think we'll know for sure when Ranai comes to the states, it's probably underdeveloped.
Villager rosa is super hard (trust me my training partner mains her), Rosa can just put up a wall of defense and gravitational pull everything, I find coming down on her with dair into dtilt is really good and edgeguarding can be easy. I'd say 60-40 at worst.

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

Pika is annoying but it's easy to lloid and fair spam, usually stay right at the ledge to be closer to Pikachu's height, nair is really good because it trades/beats quick attack.
Sheik? Idk..I think we'll know for sure when Ranai comes to the states, it's probably underdeveloped.
Villager rosa is super hard (trust me my training partner mains her), Rosa can just put up a wall of defense and gravitational pull everything, I find coming down on her with dair into dtilt is really good and edgeguarding can be easy. I'd say 60-40 at worst.

My roommate too mains Rosa but even he doubts the MU is 60-40, it's not even though but Rosa isn't greatly at an advantage especially since its so easy to bait her into Gravity Pull on habit. (-and riding LLoid into her shield or Luma is basically free since its safe on shield and its free damage on Luma... plus you can dair after riding the rocket into her to create shield pressure.)

 

[Jell0]

Completely forgot about the lloid thing, yeah you're right. I only recently discovered you can do that. It's really good from the ledge as well.