Hybrid Air Dodge (HAD) *Thread is CLOSED!-- For Ever*

[Almas]

Looks very interesting - I guess even though I disagree with it it's worth trying out.

You're right that the line limit can be reduced somewhat. I'm not absolutely certain at this point in time - these codes require the use of things called 'Gecko Registers', and at last count I had used about 14 of the 16 available in the merger code. Hopefully by removing the stuff spunit fixed it can be slotted in.

I guess I'll have some time to look at it tonight, after I get 1-2 things out of the way.

 

[Finns7]

T_T Orca I got kicked out of the house so no wii atm..........................I need to try this out though

 

[MBlaze]

I'm against this.

 

[twiblets]

vids?
10char

 

[Makkun]

I'll make a vid right now! (:

 

[Deleted member]

90 lines? WTF

 

[kupo15]

1 Problem so far. Timer....It is a bit too much. WD at a faster speed won't break the game it'll just fun for less Moble characters. The ones who get little out of D-Dancing.

If you want him to fix that them have him add more lines to override the MAD timer when you touch the ground. I was able to do a WD into a SHAD.

Im against this btw but still decided to try it

 

[Vulcan55]

I don't understand what it does.
Maybe that should be explained better in the OP because I'm not going to read very post in this thread.

 

[Revven]

90 lines? WTF

Yeah it's 2 lines longer than MAD, is it still worth it? lol

 

[goodoldganon]

@Vulcan

HAD allows you to do 1 melee air dodge followed by Brawl dodges. You won't get your 1 Melee Dodge till you have been on the ground for a few seconds.

 

[zxeon]

Yeah it's 2 lines longer than MAD, is it still worth it? lol

Yeah it's worth it. It can be shortened. Either way we'll need directional airdodging in the final game. Directional airdodging wasn't some sort of mistake or prototype to BAD. It serves an important purpose.

 

[KayJay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlVqzcLgdTg&fmt=18

 

[Revven]

Yeah it's worth it. It can be shortened. Either way we'll need directional airdodging in the final game. Directional airdodging wasn't some sort of mistake or prototype to BAD. It serves an important purpose.

And what purpose is that? Buffing recoveries? Nerfing the edge game? We're not just talking directional AD here, we're talking HAD.

 

[zxeon]

And what purpose is that? Buffing recoveries? Nerfing the edge game? We're not just talking directional AD here, we're talking HAD.

If only it could be shortened to that size lol. I bet it's possible to trim it down some.

HAD is directional airdodging. There is no set definition for HAD yet we're still working out exactly how it should work.

 

[spunit262]

You don't know if it can be shortened, it depends if it loops the same code a few times and if it does, I doubt it can be shortened to the lengths of something like NASL or hitstun.

It can be shortened. I haven't started on it but it should be at most 40 lines when I'm done with it.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i am thoroughly convinced that the reason you guys want HAD is for wavedashing, but you guys didn't even consider how directional air dodging affects the ledge game

 

[zxeon]

I think if it has landing lag then there isn't a need for a timer for when you can do it again. Since the landing lag will keep people from stacking it like they where stacking it before. Taking that out will help reduce the amount of lines it takes.

 

[Revven]

HAD is directional airdodging. There is no set definition for HAD yet we're still working out exactly how it should work.

It also has Brawl air dodges AFTER the directional air dodge so HAD is not *just* a directional air dodge.

I haven't started on it but it should be at most 40 lines when I'm done with it.

40 lines? I guess that's ok.

 

[zxeon]

i am thoroughly convinced that the reason you guys want HAD is for wavedashing, but you guys didn't even consider how directional air dodging affects the ledge game

Teach me about HAD and the ledge game.

 

[zxeon]

It also has Brawl air dodges AFTER the directional air dodge so HAD is not *just* a directional air dodge.

You may have a point there. If we get rid of the BADs or maybe limit it to just one BAD then it will be less of a fourth jump and have more of a risk/reward. Maybe we should shorten the pauses after you execute it.

 

[storm92]

Okay, I tried it.
And as some others said, HAD was exactly what you promised, but I don't support it.
It's a good code, PW did a great job with all the things he added in and such, but WD will never fit in Brawl, and if we try to make it work then we'll be using up even more lines.

 

[zxeon]

Okay, I tried it.
And as some others said, HAD was exactly what you promised, but I don't support it.
It's a good code, PW did a great job with all the things he added in and such, but WD will never fit in Brawl, and if we try to make it work then we'll be using up even more lines.

It's not a question of WDing directional airdodging is a necessity for B+.

 

[Revven]

It's not a question of WDing directional airdodging is a necessity for B+.

How the **** is directional air dodging necessary? You still haven't given us the reason why it's necessary. You just said it had a "purpose" and all that purpose seems to be is to buff recoveries and nerf the air game. And that purpose looks lame on paper.

 

[zxeon]

How the **** is directional air dodging necessary? You still haven't given us the reason why it's necessary. You just said it had a "purpose" and all that purpose seems to be is to buff recoveries and nerf the air game. And that purpose looks lame on paper.

Those aren't the reasons I'm talking about or the reason there is directional airdodging. You'll see in due time. I don't want to jinx it by saying what the reason is.

 

[storm92]

.____________________________________.
Was that a serious response zxeon?
Come on, I expect better from you.

 

[shanus]

By the looks of it so far, HAD is OP and completely screws over edgeguarding and some aspects of the air game. Will post more after more exposure, but so far this code (while fun at points) breaks more than it helps. Sorry to the fans, but I don't know about this one...

 

[zxeon]

.____________________________________.
Was that a serious response zxeon?
Come on, I expect better from you.

Do you like it only when I hit you?

 

[storm92]

Well usually we have a nice two post argument saying we disagree, then proceed into calling each other several different names (which can vary, depending on the day) or that we don't know what the other is talking about.

That whole post just threw me off.

 

[kupo15]

Yeah it's worth it. It can be shortened. Either way we'll need directional airdodging in the final game. Directional airdodging wasn't some sort of mistake or prototype to BAD. It serves an important purpose.

It's not a question of WDing directional airdodging is a necessity for B+.

How is it a necessity?

Those aren't the reasons I'm talking about or the reason there is directional airdodging. You'll see in due time. I don't want to jinx it by saying what the reason is.

Oh there is the answer...you don't have one. Its a necessity because you want it and who care what it does to the ledge game. Zxeon just wants WDing and that's why B+ needs it. You said so yourself that b+ will fail without it..right?

Give me a break

 

[zxeon]

How is it a necessity?


Oh there is the answer...its not. Its a necessity because you want it and who care what it does to the ledge game. Zxeon just wants WDing and that's why B+ needs it. You said so yourself that b+ will fail without it..right?

Give me a break

When did I say it in those words?

 

[the_judge]

I for one support HAD.

The main reason I support HAD is because it takes away the aerial guessing game which BAD introduced.
The main reason ppl are against HAD is the return of wavedashing, though my arguement is if it you don't like it, you always have the option of not doing it.
Besides Fox and a few other chars in Melee, wavedash was not really necessary. I play Falco in Melee and never use it.

Now in B+ it's a different story, BAD supporters still have their aerial guessing game (which I'm sure has helped a few ppl) and MAD supporters retain their wavedash and strategical uses.

I for prefer HAD w/o the BAD's, because this aerial guessing game is frustrating on both players.
The attacking player trying to catch them in that vulnerability window between BAD's, and the defending player predicting the attack and dodging accordingly.

I'm apologise on my insults about BAD, but I just don't like how much it's changed (notice I'm not saying destroyed) the aerial game.

 

[Archangel]

your arguments for/against make more sense now that I've taken a glance at your Mains. I don't really have a Main for Brawl+ but from my experience so far Diddy and Toon Link are the best in for too me. Sonic is actually really good with the increased speed and non blocky movement. Perhaps there are some things I didn't see with other characters or haven't discovered but so far that is what I see. However the point of Brawl+ to me shouldn't be to make our own Brawl in the end. What I mean is if editing the game only switches around the tier list in the long run then it will all be for nothing. Right now the game is pretty close among 1/3 of the characters with Diddy and Toon Link leading the pack former low tiers like Sonic and Falcon now competing at a high lvl but there is still some characters that may need a MAD to keep up. Problem is MAD broke people like Ike and Gannon who could stack Wavedashes to a the point where it was just gay after awhile. With HAD that there is a chance to bring together both worlds of the experimental Brawl+. It is also a chance to make the game equal for all. Top seeds and bottom seeds. If that means moderate (Melee)wavedashing then so be it.

Btw whats is the deal with Wavedash hate? Did Ken and PC Chris scare you that much? Did most of you suck so badly in Melee that Wavedashing scares you THAT badly? Or are you afraid that someone will beat your high tier with Bowser? From what I've seen when HAD is completed Wavedashing won't be the ultimate difference. Wavedashing will be more optional and not something that you have to do in order to compete at the highest lvl. That is unless they make a hack for wave landing off the edges of platforms and the edge of stages.....That code alone would change things drastically.

 

[kupo15]

When did I say it in those words?

Well if its needed for b+ and it must be in there then it will fail if its not. Besides you have said something along those lines. It would be a ***** to dig up but I know its there.

 

[Deleted member]

I was bored so I ported this monster huge code

HAD [credit here]
80000000 8061CCE0
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 00000014
92210003 00000068
92210004 00000070
92210006 0000007C
92210009 00000018
58010000 00000088
92210007 00000064
92210008 00000058
48001004 00000024
92210005 0000000C
48001004 00000020
92210004 00000014
4A001004 00000000
32000018 00000000
4A001006 00000000
30000038 00000021
4A001002 00000000
36000040 41000000
4A001003 00000000
9221000A 00000038
9221000B 0000003C
4A001005 00000000
3000000C 00000000
1400000C 00000001
9421000A 00000010
9421000B 00000014
4A001004 00000000
14000014 00000000
E2000001 00000000
4A001005 00000000
9221000A 00000010
9221000B 00000014
86A0000A 40000000
86A0000B 40000000
4A001007 00000000
9421000A 00000008
4A001008 00000000
9421000B 0000000C
4A001002 00000000
34000041 41000000
36000040 42000000
4A001007 00000000
14000008 00000000
4A001008 00000000
1400000C 3E000000
34000041 41C00000
4A000000 8059E68C
9221000A 00000000
4A001002 00000000
9001000B 00000040
8891000B 0000000A
34000041 42100000
4A001004 00000000
14000018 00000000
E2000005 00000000
4A000000 805A0100
9221000A 00000000
4A001004 00000000
36000014 42000000
9001000B 00000014
8891000B 0000000A
4A001006 00000000
32000038 00000021
4A001004 00000000
14000018 00000000
E2000001 00000000
34000015 41FFFFFF
4A001009 00000000
3000014C 00000000
4A001004 00000000
14000018 00000001
E2000002 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

it is fun, but waaaay too large

 

[Archangel]

How is it a necessity?


Oh there is the answer...you don't have one. Its a necessity because you want it and who care what it does to the ledge game. Zxeon just wants WDing and that's why B+ needs it. You said so yourself that b+ will fail without it..right?

Give me a break

Considering that Alot of people like Brawl for the ******ry. Well same thing goes for Melee players. Are best bet is to try to get enough Brawl and Melee players and the fact is ALOT of people who went back to playing Melee will not play Brawl+ without some kind of Wavedash. If that means getting kicked by a Wavedashing Luigi or Lucas I can take it. The timer is kind of odd but If there was a way to edit the speed of the Wavedash so that it isn't stacked as fast as it is in MAD then It will be a useful move.

 

[kupo15]

Considering that Alot of people like Brawl for the ******ry. Well same thing goes for Melee players. Are best bet is to try to get enough Brawl and Melee players and the fact is ALOT of people who went back to playing Melee will not play Brawl+ without some kind of Wavedash. If that means getting kicked by a Wavedashing Luigi or Lucas I can take it. The timer is kind of odd but If there was a way to edit the speed of the Wavedash so that it isn't stacked as fast as it is in MAD then It will be a useful move.

That is complete BS and you know it. You can't say that ppl will go back to melee without wavedashing like they are junkies needing a fix. We already had many high playing melee players who already said they like the original air dodge. Your just in denial...

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

the reason HAD is not very well received is because the game already feels very balanced as is. throwing in WDing could potential upset that balance, and since the actual use of WDing is in a shroud of mystery, how do we go about rationalizing the inclusion of it? how do we measure the effect of it on the game? it doesn't even make sense on paper. we are adding a completely new random element that no one can really explain what it's purpose is for. we can tell you a hundred reasons why it's not needed, but you'll just say to "wait and see", or as zxeon so intelligently put it "i don't want to say because it'll jinx it". i mean, what is this? magic? every fighting game has a feature that is designed for a specific purpose, and since this project could potentially get big, we need to make sure EVERY code counts.

we are essentially developing a game, throwing in random features that don't work right in the first place is NOT how you go about doing that.

tell me, what is the purpose of the directional air dodge in the air? how does it help out the aerial combat? is it designed to help aerial characters more? is it designed to help heavies more? is it to help us recover better? what is the function behind an aerial air dodge besides giving us wavedashing?

no one hates wavedashing, they just don't like the brawl incarnation of it because the game wasn't designed for directional air dodges.

 

[Sonic Phantom]

Considering that Alot of people like Brawl for the ******ry. Well same thing goes for Melee players. Are best bet is to try to get enough Brawl and Melee players and the fact is ALOT of people who went back to playing Melee will not play Brawl+ without some kind of Wavedash. If that means getting kicked by a Wavedashing Luigi or Lucas I can take it. The timer is kind of odd but If there was a way to edit the speed of the Wavedash so that it isn't stacked as fast as it is in MAD then It will be a useful move.

lol, Luigi's fall animation in Brawl (his head getting stuck into the ground) after a MAD screw him over for using the AD as a defensive aerial maneuver. He has to WD if he is going to use MAD if at all and one minor slip up leaves him begging for punishment. BAD is better for Luigi mains, no huge landing lag after the AD.

 

[Revven]

That is complete BS and you know it. You can't say that ppl will go back to melee without wavedashing like they are junkies needing a fix. We already had many high playing melee players who already said they like the original air dodge. Your just in denial...

Yeahhh duuude! We got The Cape MAN! WE GOT THE CAPE! He's gonna bring in MORE people. If The Cape didn't like BAD, then we'd know fo' sho'. But, he likes BAD the way it is! WHOAMGWTFBBQHAX!!!!

Edit: I'm being serious, I'm just typing in a cool way.

 

[storm92]

I for one support HAD.

The main reason I support HAD is because it takes away the aerial guessing game which BAD introduced.
The main reason ppl are against HAD is the return of wavedashing, though my arguement is if it you don't like it, you always have the option of not doing it.
Besides Fox and a few other chars in Melee, wavedash was not really necessary. I play Falco in Melee and never use it.

Now in B+ it's a different story, BAD supporters still have their aerial guessing game (which I'm sure has helped a few ppl) and MAD supporters retain their wavedash and strategical uses.

I for prefer HAD w/o the BAD's, because this aerial guessing game is frustrating on both players.
The attacking player trying to catch them in that vulnerability window between BAD's, and the defending player predicting the attack and dodging accordingly.

I'm apologise on my insults about BAD, but I just don't like how much it's changed (notice I'm not saying destroyed) the aerial game.

You have played BAD with hitstun right?
It's a one use thing for all practical purposes now.
There's no "guessing game" as there is in vanilla Brawl, as if you f%@! up timing an AD or just are throwing them out there, the opponent can and most likely will punish you by a combo. In vanilla Brawl, it was so floaty most the time they wouldn't get there in time to punish you (with one move, big deal), but in B+ when you make a mistake, it can be a good 40-60% to eat and possibly even a stock.

The wavedashes are ridiculous in Brawl+. I forgot how long they were, it's humorous.

Edit:
Spam_arrows, I seemed to have missed your post.
Do not come here and attempt ad hominem arguments.
They do not work. Okay?
Especially when you say stupid things such as "what are you, scared of wavedashing?"
Because you're wrong. I personally loved WD in Melee, I thought it opened the game up for way more combos, techs, and increased the overall depth of the game. Brawl is a different story and a different game. It's unneeded and overall just a waste of space. We have DC and DD for movement, and this directional air dodge nonsense isn't needed as ADs aren't even important in B+.