Revven
FrankerZ
I'd rather time be put into far more important things than HAD...Can we focus on improving the code rather than arguing if it's needed?
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I'd rather time be put into far more important things than HAD...Can we focus on improving the code rather than arguing if it's needed?
I'm not forcing you to argue against me.I'd rather time be put into far more important things than HAD...
Smashing direction I would guess would be more. And the other changes I would want made, which I haven't mentioned, to make the system be less sloppy and be more balanced would take up even more lines.I'm not a hax0r, but would that be more or less lines?
Exactly, such as fixing Diddy's recovery with No ASL.I'd rather time be put into far more important things than HAD...
And, I'm not forcing you to reply.I'm not forcing you to argue against me.
Diddy's recovery is fine watch Shanus' videos.Exactly, such as fixing Diddy's recovery with No ASL.
No. Its already been a waste of PWs time making that code when he could have made an air speed instead. It will be even more of a waste of time if we spend more time improving a code that many think should not be in the final code set. There are more important things. The world does not revolve around WDing or HAD like you would likeCan we focus on improving the code rather than arguing if it's needed?
Ganon isn't viable now? You call that good justifications for keeping HAD? Don't make me laugh
I have some elements HAD adds in that give more to the game like the ability to move faster on Ganon making him a more viable character. I thought the stacked WD was a bit much on Ike and Ganon, but the HAD one balances them much more than the MAD did. How about helping links recovery and opening the window for lowering jump heights? With HAD there is added recovery on the characters we all feared would lose so much from jump heights, but with directional air dodge to up B that opens up lowering their jumps to make them better on stage. A directional air dodge also adds a lot to the edge game with the ability to drop and HAD back to the edge for a guard. Also if the stop mechanic on platforms can be removed easily then HAD would be a better form of travel on platforms making the stages harder to abuse from the bottom. Right now you have far less mobility on platforms because it's not wide enough to use SHAD and dash games, and it takes longer to move around on without controllable wavelands.
What about the competitive gamers who don't want WDing because they think it hurts the game? Does that make us not worthy enough to play B+ or something?1. Negatively Affecting Potential Brawl+ players.
One of the reasons people were against Wavedashing in the first place is that it negatively affect the casual gamers that would potentially try Brawl+. Well, if im not mistaken the whole point of Brawl+ was to make it as competitive as possible. There is no reason why a person would dismiss Brawl+ solely on the basis of Wavedashing, if you really think so, you are in denial and heres why. Look at melee for example, there were a plethora of "casual" gamers who played melee regardless of the wavedash. It didnt ruin their experience simply because they are "casual gamers." The inclusion of a wavedash in brawl+ would simply emulate this. The casual gamers would ignore the WD and the real competitive gamers would find someway to include it in their game.
Ah I didn't know that answering you with the truth makes me a troll, or is the part where I state the truth and it doesn't agree with you that makes me the troll?Stop trolling this thread Kupo.
This is technically who PW made it for, for people to have fun with it at home lol. It's the whole reason why he made it, he didn't make it because it would be for Brawl+.Aww f*** it, I'm playing with HAD. If the tourney set doesn't include it then I'll just play w/ it at home.
We don't know that.This is technically who PW made it for, for people to have fun with it at home lol. It's the whole reason why he made it, he didn't make it because it would be for Brawl+.
I believe I stated "more viable" which would include the fact I think he is viable now as a character, but more viable as tournament winning character with the added mobility.Ganon isn't viable now? You call that good justifications for keeping HAD? Don't make me laugh
Falcon is right. We were telling him that there is a high probability that it won't be standard and that there are more important things to work on atm but he did it anyway. He said that he makes non biased codes for both sides of B+...We don't know that.
Besides, it's gonna suck when I play with HAD and then move to tourney settings and have to change my game COMPLETELY.
Heh, but I'm sure nobody cares about my misfortunes.
He is already more viable. Increases to his dash speed will be the extra mobility he needs. And look out when the air momentum comes....I believe I stated "more viable" which would include the fact I think he is viable now as a character, but more viable as tournament winning character with the added mobility.
He is already more viable. Increases to his dash speed will be the extra mobility he needs. And look out when the air momentum comes....
All the justifications you and everyone makes about HAD are laughable when a future code will do the same thing better
what makes you think recoveries are horrendously bad that they need help anyway?
I can see a independant dash speed code helping him, but a global change would increase the mobility of the already fast characters just as much. The air momentum would help him the same way if the dash speed for him is changed singular.
I had the added recovery, opening for more code changes now that recovery is better, platform movement, and faster ground movement for slow dash speed characters not helped by a global dash increase code. I don't really see where the current codes in discussion would change this, or maybe I am missing a code in the discussion. The up B's could be changed to help recovery when we do character balancing though, but unless we plan to fix multiple up Bs then that wouldn't diminish my justification as a global recovery addition much.
I think Link, Ivy, ZSS, Diddy, DK, Olimar, and Bowser could use the help from a air dodge. We have had many discussions on the brawl+ threads where lowering jump height had such a large impact on recoveries that many disagreed with it. I would see the added global HAD recovery buff as a opportunity to try different jump height variables without the fear of impact they have on recovery being a issue.what makes you think recoveries are horrendously bad that they need help anyway?
That is if you consider the buffed recoveries good. I for one don't as well as several others...All I know is I haven't seen one person give a good, solid reason why HAD is good for the game. I can maybe give the buffs to the recovery a nod, but the rest of the negatives too HAD FAR outweigh that small benefit.
Brawl+ was never meant to significantly change the metagame. It was only created to tweak the much needed issues without changing the game completely; besides, if you want to put yourself in a situation where you have to change your game completely that is your choice. You would be going into this knowing the possible consequences.We don't know that.
Besides, it's gonna suck when I play with HAD and then move to tourney settings and have to change my game COMPLETELY.
Heh, but I'm sure nobody cares about my misfortunes.
That was cold blooded kupo and uncalled for. Lets try to keep this civil shall we?Ah I didn't know that answering you with the truth makes me a troll, or is the part where I state the truth and it doesn't agree with you that makes me the troll?
IIRC I hardly see you positively contribute to any thread in the past month so who's the troll?
I believe you misunderstood me kupo.What about the competitive gamers who don't want WDing because they think it hurts the game? Does that make us not worthy enough to play B+ or something?
Melee wding =/= brawl wding
I'm not shunning him away because his opinion is different than mine although that is exactly what zxeon is doing. Zxeon and I have bad history anyway which explains that...That was cold blooded kupo and uncalled for. Lets try to keep this civil shall we?
On another note (regardless on my standpoint of the subject) we could just as easily ask how you are telling the truth considering that that the subject is still being debated. Just because you and several others believe it to be true does not make in fact true. Everyone involved with this Brawl+ project should be entitled to their own opinions considering that the topic IS still debatable.
Fun Fact: Even Galileo Galilei, one of the greatest minds of his time, was branded a heretic and shunned by the community for his heliocentric theory (which was later proven true).
^Goes to show you that although several other people deem something false/untrue it does not necessarily mean that those people (the majority in this case) are right.
I got respect for you kupo, you're one of the biggest voices in this project but lets not see you shun anybody simply because they have a different opinion than yours.
That seems like a fairly non-biased, neutral pros and cons list.I would have to say after testing it a bit more and weighing my pro's vs con's I'm not in favor of HAD. Here is the list I made of my opinions on it to reach this choice. The final con for me is just too much to overlook as it was with MAD.
Pros:
- Add spacing control with WD
- Adds more stalling techniques
- Adds another way to go up the edge
- Adds speed - helps some slow character's mobility
- Could bring back melee users
- Makes some more combos possible
Cons:
- Recovery is even easier making edge guards harder
- Goes against the intended mobility characteristics on some characters
- Turns off brawl users
- Makes other forms of movement less valuable
- Could make brawl+ less credible
- Can't be used for platform WDing
- Can't WD off edges for guards
- 90 lines can be used for tons of others (this one in itself is like 20 cons by taking away possible codes)
Plz don't start that, there are plenty of differences in each.If I wanted wavedashing, I'd play melee. Then again, WDing isn't even that important of a mechanic for many characters.
You must be my biggest fan!I'm not shunning him away because his opinion is different than mine although that is exactly what zxeon is doing. Zxeon and I have bad history anyway which explains that...
That's Kitan from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. The aspect ratio is 4:3 when it should be 16:9.Plz don't start that, there are plenty of differences in each.
and wtf at your sig
But the fact that HAD would even be in brawl is an important growing process that'll shape how outsiders take the game.You must be my biggest fan!
I'm not shunning you Kupo. All I have been saying is that HAD might prove to be an indispensable mechanic for B+ and we should try to polish it up instead of arguing about it's existence.
How about I put it this way:But the fact that HAD would even be in brawl is an important growing process that'll shape how outsiders take the game.
So you mean to tell me you wish to put down the brawl+ community by sending in minions to take away our rights and freedoms and force to live in the tyranny of HAD?How about I put it this way:
HAD = Ganmen. You think it's outdated and useless but it serves an important purpose.