How would you realistically buff Wario?

[ZeGlasses!]

It's always been a popular question among mains of less-than-threatning characters in the Sm4sh meta, so I decided to make a thread about it. Might stop it from cluttering all the other discussion threads.

My personal suggestions for buffing Wario are:

• More knockback on Back air. Don't go overboard, but make it an actually decent kill move.
• Landing lag reduction on Forward air. With how little knockback and damage this move does I feel it's odd that it's so laggy outside of a shorthop.
• Incresed knockback growth on Up Air. So this move still has it's combo potential at low percents but it can actually freaking kill at higher percents.
• Lower the angle on Down throw, so that it creates a tech chase situation at lower percents. I hate just giving characters throw combos to buff them, but I feel this buff does it in an interesting and unique way.

 

[Twewy]

More super armor when releasing full waft. Many a time have I been knocked out of releasing a full fart because I got attacked the moment I input down+b.

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

The buffs I really would like.

Nair (First hit): Hitbox bigger OR hits on frames 4-6, instead of only 4

Bair: Intangibility Head and arms + bit more knockback.

Fair: Landing lag reduce by 2.

Upair: Hitbox slightly lowered to make it a bit more easier to hit on grounded opponents.

Jump: Reduce the jump squad frames from 6 to 4/5 frames.

Dtilt: hits on frame 4 + endlag 1 frame less.

Dthrow/Upthrow: Make it a combo throw at very low%.

 

[Magik0722]

Grab, reduce by 2 frames, from 8 to 6. Either increase kb or decreased endlag on fair, dash attack, bair, dsmash, upsmash, to make these moves not punishable on hit. Bigger bottom hitbox on dair so it can trade with at least a few upaird instead of losjng to them all

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I mostly just want moves to work correctly. Jab1 combo into Jab2 consistently. Add 1-2 active frames to N-Air sweetspot. Make Up-B link into the final hit consistently (instead of almost never).

Actual buffs, though?...Raise the angle of Jab2 and/or reduce IASA on Jabs so it's more than just an inferior D-Tilt. Faster standing grab. Frame 5 jumpsquat. Reduce total airdodge frames (and, consequently, invincibility frames) by 1 so that shorthop airdodge -> landing N-Air and shorthop Neutral-B -> landing N-Air were possible.

 

[Axel311]

Wario's core issues to me are 1) lacking approach and 2) poor kill options outside of waft. I agree that stuff like jab and up B not linking is annoying but I'm not sure fixing that would make him more viable.

Personally I want to see

1) Buff Bair to kill ~10% earlier
2) Reduced start up lag on Ftilt
3) Increased groundspeed

I don't think any of that is over the top.

I'd love to see autocancelled downair like it brawl, but waft being so strong in this game I kinda understand why they have lag on that move now. Autocancelled downair to full waft as a true combo would probably be broken.

This is more flavor/fun than a real buff but it's something I've always wanted to be more worth it - Increase the healing/waft charge for eating projectiles and increase the number of things Wario eats that heal him/take off waft charge. Eating things is just a fun/unique aspect of the character and I wish it was more useful. That would also help Wario's approach indirectly. It would make it so opponents think twice about mindlessly spamming projectiles. This is sort of what G&W does with his bucket and Ness does with his healing.

 

[Rakurai]

-More KB growth on uair
-Eating anything raises waft charge
-Smashes have less endlag/earlier IASA frames

Those are the main things I'd want, personally. The return of throwable bike tires would also be amazing, but I don't think they'd introduce a change that would heavily change a character's playstyle at this point.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Come to think of it, I'd love reduced N-Air landing lag. 12 -> 10.

 

[Twewy]

With this new patch, here's hoping Sakurai read this thread.

 

[Waroh]

I want an end lag reduction on up-tilt. Make any other adjustments that may be necessary, but I feel like it would be pretty neat if the strong hit could realistically link into a rising full waft. Perhaps the sour hit active frames would have to be reduced, as well. I could see that possibly being too strong for ledge option coverage.

 

[spd12]

Wario feels like he is balanced around the waft entirely. Giving him more reliable kill moves outside of this might upset the balance they were going for with him.

I'd do something smaller like have waft charge significantly faster (1:00-1:20 range?), and see how it goes.

 

[Sari]

New patch coming out today so hopefully something happens.

Here's what I would like:

Faster jab: D-tilt comes out quicker so there's no point in using jab as much. If it were a few frames quicker that would be good.
Improved up-B: As of now the corkscrew is basically useless outside of recovering, which is a shame since other characters can put their up-B to good use. Make it 1-2 frames faster, make it connect better, and if possible either give it more damage and/or knockback and I can see it as being a good combo finisher.
Bike slam = instant shield break: Here's an interesting one. When you ride the bike, you can press up to do a wheelie than slam the bike on someone for high knockback. I think if you do this on someone shielding, it should be an instant shield break, since actually landing it is pretty tough. If Ryu's f-tilt can break shields I don't see why the wheelie can't.
Stronger b-air and/or f-tilt: Wario has a tough time killing outside of waft, so I think it's fair that two of his better killing moves receive more knockback.
Faster up-tilt: Up-smash is more useful since it comes out at about the same time. I think up-tilt should be like 3 frames faster.
Do anything with his d-smash: Wario's d-smash is probably the worst in the game. Make it come out quicker, make it stronger, do anything with it.

 

[Twewy]

Pretty sure Ryu's Collarbone Breaker breaks shields because it was used to break guards in Street Fighter. Someone with more SF experience can feel free to correct me. That bike slam idea is glorious though.

I'd like to see down-Smash buffed in a way that helps with ledgeguarding. Wario's DSmash is a decent ledgeguarding tool towards horizontal recoveries, but I feel like it's not as good at countering a vertical recovery.

 

[Rakurai]

Collarbone Breaker is Ryu's overhead in SF (That is, it can't be blocked low, which generally only applies to air attacks).

But yeah. Having the bike slam cause high shield damage would be nice, because it's unlikely you'll ever connect with against someone while they aren't shielding.

 

[C4-]

-bigger hitbox on first hit of nair so shorthop nair can hit any character
- knockback growth in upair increased
- All hits of upB connect reliably while in the air

Those are probably the most realistic buffs in my eyes

Ones that I feel are unrealistic but I can still hope for are
-tires
-frame 3 move (either jab or upB) so that we can potentially break combos
-autocancel fair and dair on shorthop

 

[Plug]

Make bike harder to freaking punish, like bike has terrible priority compared to aonic spin dash and bayonetta side B literally anything will knock wario off bike

 

[MrGameguycolor]

New patch coming out today so hopefully something happens.

Here's what I would like:

Faster jab: D-tilt comes out quicker so there's no point in using jab as much. If it were a few frames quicker that would be good.
Improved up-B: As of now the corkscrew is basically useless outside of recovering, which is a shame since other characters can put their up-B to good use. Make it 1-2 frames faster, make it connect better, and if possible either give it more damage and/or knockback and I can see it as being a good combo finisher.
Bike slam = instant shield break: Here's an interesting one. When you ride the bike, you can press up to do a wheelie than slam the bike on someone for high knockback. I think if you do this on someone shielding, it should be an instant shield break, since actually landing it is pretty tough. If Ryu's f-tilt can break shields I don't see why the wheelie can't.
Stronger b-air and/or f-tilt: Wario has a tough time killing outside of waft, so I think it's fair that two of his better killing moves receive more knockback.
Faster up-tilt: Up-smash is more useful since it comes out at about the same time. I think up-tilt should be like 3 frames faster.
Do anything with his d-smash: Wario's d-smash is probably the worst in the game. Make it come out quicker, make it stronger, do anything with it.

I disagree on Corkscrew limited uses, I find it to be a decent out of shield option since it comes out on frame 6, but that's just my opinion as a someone who plays Wario out of 7 characters. Though I do like the *bike slam = instant shield break* idea.

Now personally, this is what I would like to see for "Bad-Mario":

• Jab 1: Hitbox Active 8-9 < 5-6 (Or Base Dmg: 4 < 7)
• Ftilt (All Angles): Hitbox Active 12-15 < 10-15 AND Base Dmg: 14 on all active frames
• Utilt: Hitbox Active: 12-14 < 7-10 (Or FAF: 36 < 30)
• Fsmash: Hitbox Active: 18-19 < 15-17 (Or FAF: 66 < 56)
• Usmash: FAF 58 < 53
• Dsmash: Hitbox Active: 18-27 (Sour Spot/Late: 28-36) < 13-22 (23-31) (Or replace sour spot hitboxes with new sweet spot hitboxes)
• Nair: Hitbox Active: 4 < 3-4 AND KGB: 100 < 135
• Fair (Sour Spot/Late): Hitbox Active 7-17 < 7-20
• Uair: FAF 47 < 39
• Corkscrew (Final Hit): Base Knockback 60 < 85

And for my unrealistic buff:

• Give Wario his old shoulder charge for his dash attack with a Ryu-esque hold button for new stronger attack mechanic

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

All of his moves have range comparable to Shulk. It's what he deserves. In actuality, a I think Wario should be left alone. I think he's perfectly balanced and doesn't need Buffs or Nerfs.

 

[Axel311]

All of his moves have range comparable to Shulk. It's what he deserves. In actuality, a I think Wario should be left alone. I think he's perfectly balanced and doesn't need Buffs or Nerfs.

It just depends on what your philosophy on balancing is and if you're for buffs only or if you're for nerfs. Wario probably isn't even top 20 right now. So if he doesn't get touched we need to see more nerfs for top tiers. Personally, other than Cloud and maybe Diddy/Rosa I'd like the mid and low tiers get buffed and leave the top tiers alone.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

HOLD ON, DID I SAY WARIO HAS RANGE COMPARABLE TO SHULK? I DON'T GET IT, I'M NOT AN ALCOHOLIC

 

[Twewy]

HOLD ON, DID I SAY WARIO HAS RANGE COMPARABLE TO SHULK? I DON'T GET IT, I'M NOT AN ALCOHOLIC

I guess you weren't really feeling it that day.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

I guess you weren't really feeling it that day.

It wasn't my time

 

[Twewy]

But we can change the future. Sakurai, if you're reading this, give Wario a Monado.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

But we can change the future. Sakurai, if you're reading this, give Wario a Monado.

"Now it's Wario Time!"



-"Wonado Shoulder!"
-"Wonado Chomp!"
-"Wondado Bike!"
-"Wondado Corkscrew!"
-"Wondad- Wait, never-mind!



Sorry if I made you form that image in your head.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

For real though, Wario would basically be a peregriene falcon with Jump.
Speed is kinda meh. Can't see any method useful
Shield would be good because it would let him be able to have two wafts in a two stock match.
Buster would be god damn insane. Imagine Bike and Chomp
Smash would help bair and F-Throw be more reliable killing moves

 

[MERPIS]

I would....
Make jab come out of frame 5 rather than whatever it comes out on now.
Make F-smash akin to MK's, basically just reducing its ending lag by maybe 15 frames
REDUCING ENDLAG ON U-SMASH, Holy christ, why does this attack have a full second of endlag? Not even that much shield stun either.
Make Fair kill at around 140 or 150 from the ledge rather than at, like 200, and increase its hitbox slightly
Make bair kill at around 110%, almost every heavy has a bair that kills super early, why doesn't wario get one?
Uair has reduced endlag, and more kill power, not at much as yoshi, but still
Missed chomp has a little less endlag
Uthrow is now a combo throw, early percents it can lead to all of his aerials, mid percents it can lead into Uair, kill percents it leads into full waft's headbutt or uair for the kill.
Fthrow kills 10% earlier.