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How would y'all feel if there were more attacks that could be used by characters?

Necro'lic

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
654
Imagine there was a third basic attacking button along with A and B. It's not like there's a shortage of redundant buttons in these games. Maybe it could be Y, and X could stay as jump.

I don't think it would complicate too much, since it's just another button that works about the same as the others anyway. So like, imagine if we had two types of tilt moves, two types of smash moves, another neutral move that could be something other than a jab. Then five more normal aerials to work with.

I doubt this is a new concept or idea shared on here, but I'd like to know what you guys think about this. It would definitely give players more options to work with without being too overwhelming, nor be any harder to execute.
 

Teeb147

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
10,624
I had a really similar thought yesterday. We must be on similar waves or something :p

I Love the simplicity of smash bros, but adding a new kind of attack button wouldn't overcomplicate, I think. The only problem I can think is design time for 70 characters, lol.

Casually, more to try out and play with, so it's great. Competitively, people should love having more options to choose and think about. It'd be a great way to add more, imo.
 

verysleepywolf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
367
3DS FC
3153-5879-7280
This wouldn't appeal to me. I think it's a bad idea to add anything further to SSB that isn't a refinement of existing mechanics or minor additions to established game elements.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,512
Actually, I do have an idea for this, but in a restrained way:

I think that either the X or Y button can be assigned to a "Super Move" button. This would also introduce the "Super Meter" that's been a hallmark of most fighting games since SSF2T. Supers would essentially work the same way as Specials (Neutral Super, Side Super, Up Super, Down Super), but would be more powerful. In general, Supers would just be more powerful versions of the associated Special, having increased KO Power, Damage, or (on recovery moves) distance. As in normal fighting games, Supers would consume a section of the meter; if the meter is empty, the Super button would just act as another Special button until there's enough meter filled.

Think of it as universalizing Little Mac's KO Punch move or Cloud's Limit Break mechanic. Frankly, both Mac and Cloud can be reworked to have their unique mechanics become the usual Super Meter.

And yes, Final Smashes and Smash Balls can coexist with this mechanic.
----
If you're talking about the Light, Medium, Heavy system in most fighting games, then no, that has no place in Smash.
 

Necro'lic

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
654
Quillion Quillion While I like the idea of a super meter, I don't think it needs its own button. I think you could work it in by instead having B+Y (because B+A is still smash attack shortcut) and still have that Y button to work off of for new moves. This makes sense because these super moves are just derivatives of the specials, so adding in the usual special move input + an extra button makes intuitive sense.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by light, medium, heavy attacks. I would just have this be another button for more moves, that's all. They don't have to follow a motif.
 

smashingDoug

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
1,623
Location
Behind you.
Sorry I shouldn’t be talking I don’t own a switch so I don’t know the controller
 
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Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,512
Quillion Quillion While I like the idea of a super meter, I don't think it needs its own button. I think you could work it in by instead having B+Y (because B+A is still smash attack shortcut) and still have that Y button to work off of for new moves. This makes sense because these super moves are just derivatives of the specials, so adding in the usual special move input + an extra button makes intuitive sense.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by light, medium, heavy attacks. I would just have this be another button for more moves, that's all. They don't have to follow a motif.
Light, Medium, Heavy is essentially what Capcom fighters and their ilk do. You know those six buttons on fighting game arcade cabinets with light punch and heavy kick? That's what I'm talking about.

Are heavy attacks what you have in mind for the Y button? That's what Smash attacks are already, in a sense.

The only use I would see for giving Smash attacks their own dedicated button is if they introduce aerial Smashes. Even then, I'd say that retaining AB-Smash and C-Smash while giving us the option to turn Tap Smash off would work better.
 

Teeb147

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
10,624
I like both ideas. The meter one could be for new attacks too, doesn't have to be the same moves as b. I don't see it working with y+b though cuz that's hard to press together at the same time :p

I think Necrolic means just a new kind of attack. If A is like light, and smashes are heavy, then the it could be like medium attacks, or it could be attacks that aren't quite normal attacks, not quite like b moves, but something inbetween. I mean, it'd be quite easy to just give 4+ new attacks with different hitboxes or effects. The sky's the limit :)
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,512
I think Necrolic means just a new kind of attack. If A is like light, and smashes are heavy, then the it could be like medium attacks
Aren't tilts already medium attacks?

Heck, in my mind, I always call tilts "mediums" because I feel that makes the most sense between that, "tilts", and "strongs".
 

Necro'lic

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
654
Aren't tilts already medium attacks?

Heck, in my mind, I always call tilts "mediums" because I feel that makes the most sense between that, "tilts", and "strongs".
I would definitely delineate them as "strong" or "weak" like they do in Pokken, but it would only be a name. For example:

:GCY::GCU: = Weak Up Tilt

:GCA::GCU: = Strong Up Tilt

or for Smash attacks:

:GCY:+:GCU: = Weak Up Smash

:GCA:+:GCU: = Strong Up Smash

It really comes down to convenient naming rather than characteristics of the moves themselves. Like in Pokken, there are many "weak" moves that do a lot more damage than their corresponding "strong" moves. Also, the "weak" smash attacks maybe don't have the ability to charge and are just another extra way to get another move.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,512
I would definitely delineate them as "strong" or "weak" like they do in Pokken, but it would only be a name. For example:

:GCY::GCU: = Weak Up Tilt

:GCA::GCU: = Strong Up Tilt

or for Smash attacks:

:GCY:+:GCU: = Weak Up Smash

:GCA:+:GCU: = Strong Up Smash

It really comes down to convenient naming rather than characteristics of the moves themselves. Like in Pokken, there are many "weak" moves that do a lot more damage than their corresponding "strong" moves. Also, the "weak" smash attacks maybe don't have the ability to charge and are just another extra way to get another move.
Again, I feel that distinction would be better served exclusively for aerials considering ground options are already varied enough. We could have tilt aerials and smash aerials.

It would solve the problem of characters lacking good combo aerials or finisher aerials. And again, they could introduce the option to turn off Tap Smash.
 

Khao

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
1,448
Location
Lying about my country.
Strong/Weak moves would be completely redundant in Smash if you ask me. The whole point of the neutral/tilt/smash system is to have the complexity of a regular fighting game on a single button. If we wanted to have an additional button, it would have to be something that isn't already offered by the special and attack buttons.

What I mean is... Both buttons are already inherently different, and a third button would need to have just as many differences for it to truly fit in the game. Otherwise it's just more moves for the sake of more moves (which is not inherently a bad thing outright, just kind of unnecessary and a waste of resources at this point.

Look at the standard attacks. They're divided in tilts and smashes depending on the timing of the stick/button press. They have a somewhat similar "structure" along the whole cast. They change depending on whether or not you're in the ground or in the air, or even running. Or more exactly, they completely change depending on the character's current movement state.

Compare to specials. Unlike standard attacks, specials have unique properties in every single fighter. There are overlaps and exceptions everywhere, but in most cases, specials are the stuff that truly set characters apart. And, once again unlike standard attacks, specials are different in that they don't change depending on the character's current state. Whether a character is idle, jumping, walking or running, pressing B with a direction will always do the same special move.

Sooooooo both buttons behave differently. Shouldn't a hypothetical third attack button also behave in a completely different way to justify itself? I mean, if we just add a second "standard attack" button that just gives a character an extra set of tilts and smashes and aerials.... we might as well just have given all those moves to a brand-new fighter instead. It's just not worth it. However, if we add a third button that allows character to use moves that are completely different in excecution to the current buttons, we might be onto something, because now we'd have something they couldn't have possibly used before.
 

MagnesD3

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
4,851
Location
Hiding in Microsoft Headquarters
I would love for another special to be attached to A plus B or add a meter bar on the Character ui that when filled can be spent by a player by inputting a special move plus A sending out a way better version of that move (like ex in sf).
 
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LancerStaff

Smash Hero
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Jan 28, 2014
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8,118
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Buried under 990+ weapons
3DS FC
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I don’t see the point... We have enough useless or mediocre moves on characters. More moves for the sake of it won’t accomplish much.

Giving us an option for separate tilt and smash buttons is reasonable but besides that, I don’t see it.
 

Idon

Smash Legend
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Waxing Moon Ritual
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Before we go there, let's at least give everyone a zair and a different grounded upB.
 

Necro'lic

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
654
Before we go there, let's at least give everyone a zair and a different grounded upB.
You actually read my mind sir lol. For that matter, would it be weird to have special smashes and special tilts? I think someone mentioned that here, but I didn't realize how good it would be.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,512
I love how everyone has cool ideas for mechanics that aren't just ripped from Melee.

In fact, let me post my idea for a new control scheme and moves that keeps Smash's simplicity while adding onto it:
  • :GCA:: Jab; neutral Aerial
  • :GCN:+:GCA:: Tilts; Aerials
  • Tap :GCN:+:GCA: OR :GCN:+:GCA:+:GCB: OR :GCCN:: Smashes; now has Aerial Smashes (either of the three can be toggled on or off)
  • :GCRT:: Shield
  • :GCN:+:GCRT:: Roll, Spotdodge, Airdodge
  • Release :GCRT: near moment of hit: Parry
  • :GCRT:+:GCA: OR :GCZ:: Grab; now has Aerial Grabs that override Air Dodges
  • :GCN:+:GCB:: Special
  • :GCN:+:GCX:: Super Move (Consumes meter; acts as normal Special otherwise)
  • :GCLT:: Wavedash, Air Dash
  • :GCY:: Jump
(Real talk: why can't we have Wii/Wii U Classic buttons or Switch buttons? I'm tired of being stuck with GCN buttons only.)
 

Necro'lic

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
654
I love how everyone has cool ideas for mechanics that aren't just ripped from Melee.

In fact, let me post my idea for a new control scheme and moves that keeps Smash's simplicity while adding onto it:
  • :GCA:: Jab; neutral Aerial
  • :GCN:+:GCA:: Tilts; Aerials
  • Tap :GCN:+:GCA: OR :GCN:+:GCA:+:GCB: OR :GCCN:: Smashes; now has Aerial Smashes (either of the three can be toggled on or off)
  • :GCRT:: Shield
  • :GCN:+:GCRT:: Roll, Spotdodge, Airdodge
  • Release :GCRT: near moment of hit: Parry
  • :GCRT:+:GCA: OR :GCZ:: Grab; now has Aerial Grabs that override Air Dodges
  • :GCN:+:GCB:: Special
  • :GCN:+:GCX:: Super Move (Consumes meter; acts as normal Special otherwise)
  • :GCLT:: Wavedash, Air Dash
  • :GCY:: Jump
(Real talk: why can't we have Wii/Wii U Classic buttons or Switch buttons? I'm tired of being stuck with GCN buttons only.)
I think it would be weird for grabs in the air to bypass air dodges when ground grabs don't bypass spotdodge or rolls.

Also, what exactly would air dash even be? Just a quick movement across the air like a directional airdodge, but without invincibility, but with the ability to attack?
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,512
I think it would be weird for grabs in the air to bypass air dodges when ground grabs don't bypass spotdodge or rolls.
I was thinking that they could replace air dodging with air shielding at one point, but then I found it dumb.

Also, what exactly would air dash even be? Just a quick movement across the air like a directional airdodge, but without invincibility, but with the ability to attack?
Yep, that's exactly what I mean. I think separating the wavedash from the airdodge and adding an air dash would help both mechanics. They've already got nerfed wavelanding down pat with the new directional air dodge. Now, if they have a more offensively oriented wavedash and air dash accessible with just a single button, that would provide more offensive options.
 

F.D.M.P.

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Messages
7
Smash is a game built on simplicity; here is your punch button, here is your special button. Any additional moves should be coming out of that, like the forward specials did.Maybe a shield special? I like the smash special idea a lot.
 

Quillion

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
5,512
Smash is a game built on simplicity; here is your punch button, here is your special button. Any additional moves should be coming out of that, like the forward specials did.Maybe a shield special? I like the smash special idea a lot.
Maybe Shield+B could be used for Super Specials.
 
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