How valid is "relevant to main series" as grounds for character inclusion?

[Quillion]

I've seen this as arguments as to why certain characters deserve a spot more than others. Just to name two: Captain Toad over Waluigi and Daisy. Bandana Waddle Dee over Marx and Gooey. It's also a common argument as to why Zelda characters outside of Link, Zelda, and Ganon.

But is this really a valid argument for including or excluding characters? Let's look at two characters:

• Jigglypuff has never been a prominent Pokémon in the main series games, never receiving a Mega Evolution or exclusive Z move as recently as Gens 6 and 7. It was included because of its prominence in the anime circa the time of Smash 64.
• Dr. Mario was chosen as the clone of Mario despite him only being the star of a spinoff series. While you might say that he's a special case because he's a clone, it still stands that Dr. Mario was chosen over other forms of Mario like say Frog Mario or Hammer Bro Mario.

So I'm inclined to believe that it doesn't matter if a character isn't relevant to their main series. It just matters if they're popular enough.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

It's stupid. Cut Marth.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There is this quote by Sakurai on Chrom to consider.

I suspect a lot of you will ask: “What? Not Chrom!?” Of course, Chrom is quite popular, being the protagonist of FE:A and all. However, I chose Robin and Lucina, and I will elaborate on my reasoning.

As well as this.

I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros.Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn’t easy by any means.

I think the implcation was that Chrom being the main character of Awakening was why Sakurai considered him.

 

[StormC]

I've seen this as arguments as to why certain characters deserve a spot more than others. Just to name two: Captain Toad over Waluigi and Daisy. Bandana Waddle Dee over Marx and Gooey. It's also a common argument as to why Zelda characters outside of Link, Zelda, and Ganon.

But is this really a valid argument for including or excluding characters? Let's look at two characters:

• Jigglypuff has never been a prominent Pokémon in the main series games, never receiving a Mega Evolution or exclusive Z move as recently as Gens 6 and 7. It was included because of its prominence in the anime circa the time of Smash 64.
• Dr. Mario was chosen as the clone of Mario despite him only being the star of a spinoff series. While you might say that he's a special case because he's a clone, it still stands that Dr. Mario was chosen over other forms of Mario like say Frog Mario or Hammer Bro Mario.

So I'm inclined to believe that it doesn't matter if a character isn't relevant to their main series. It just matters if they're popular enough.

Jigglypuff was also a clone of sorts, borrowing Kirby's skeleton and some of his moves from 64. Clones are last minute additions meant to pad out the roster.

You can disagree that main series shouldn't overrule spin-offs, but Sakurai clearly thinks so. Two clones don't really dispute that.

Marx and Gooey are weird examples because they still appear in mainline games. Bandana Dee just has a better resume than them no matter how you slice it.

 

[Morbi]

There is this quote by Sakurai on Chrom to consider.



As well as this.



I think the implcation was that Chrom being the main character of Awakening was why Sakurai considered him.

And to that end, he still chose the other two protagonists, regardless. It is not as though he went for someone that could be more unique and was popular, such as Tharja. And for DLC, he chose Corrin over Azure, a songstress with a spear. He just went straight for the other main characters and if you look at the roster as a whole, it is pretty clear he constantly does that for nearly every series. I am just leaving it vague with the word "nearly" because I do not want someone to go... "b-bu-but this one exception!"

 

[JomSpoons]

I used this argument for my Karate Joe thread, but that's because Rhythm Heaven is such a diverse series that I feel like the representative of the series, should there be one, should be someone that anyone who's played any of the games in the series would recognize. I don't think this is a valid argument for every series, though. I feel like this argument is only really valid for series that would only be getting one rep for that entire series, which would likely be the case for Rhythm Heaven. For series like LoZ or Mario I don't feel like this is a valid argument.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I've seen this as arguments as to why certain characters deserve a spot more than others. Just to name two: Captain Toad over Waluigi and Daisy. Bandana Waddle Dee over Marx and Gooey. It's also a common argument as to why Zelda characters outside of Link, Zelda, and Ganon.

But is this really a valid argument for including or excluding characters? Let's look at two characters:

• Jigglypuff has never been a prominent Pokémon in the main series games, never receiving a Mega Evolution or exclusive Z move as recently as Gens 6 and 7. It was included because of its prominence in the anime circa the time of Smash 64.
• Dr. Mario was chosen as the clone of Mario despite him only being the star of a spinoff series. While you might say that he's a special case because he's a clone, it still stands that Dr. Mario was chosen over other forms of Mario like say Frog Mario or Hammer Bro Mario.

So I'm inclined to believe that it doesn't matter if a character isn't relevant to their main series. It just matters if they're popular enough.

Your examples are kind of strange, Toad obviously is and has always been more relevant than Daisy or Waluigi, Captain Toad just made his chances better by giving him a starring role and an obvious moveset. Waddle Dee has always been the Toad for Kirby, with Marx and Gooey not having as many appearances; again, Bandana Dee is just a series regular that was elevated to main character status.

The Dr. Mario as a clone argument doesn’t hold much water either. If they were going to make a clone, why make Frog Mario or Hammer Bro Mario? Those forms would obviously have different movesets.

The greatest examples of relevance over popularity would be Rosalina getting in over Toad, Waluigi or Daisy, Corrin getting in over other, more popular FE lords (mainly Lyn and Chrom), and the constant exclusion of fan-favorites like Ridley, Isaac, K. Rool and Dixie, et cetera.

Edit: what do you mean by “relevance” specifically? Is it being recent? Is it being a main character in a franchise? Because there is a world of difference between those two definitions.

 

[sman3579]

• Jigglypuff has never been a prominent Pokémon in the main series games, never receiving a Mega Evolution or exclusive Z move as recently as Gens 6 and 7. It was included because of its prominence in the anime circa the time of Smash 64.
• Dr. Mario was chosen as the clone of Mario despite him only being the star of a spinoff series. While you might say that he's a special case because he's a clone, it still stands that Dr. Mario was chosen over other forms of Mario like say Frog Mario or Hammer Bro Mario.

I mean in Jigglypuff's case you have to consider her popularity in the anime. She was a reoccurring character in the anime who sing, put people to sleep and then draw on their face. It was a running gag for the longest time in the anime. So that really boosted her popularity and relevancy at the time. Now she is basically irrelevant to Pokemon not being important in the game or the anime but being one of the original 12.

As for Dr. Mario, the game did span a few sequels, ports and remakes, and the original game sold close to 5 million copies. So you could argue he is relevant to Nintendo history. Plus like you said he is a clone which is easy to add because you don't have to make an entirely different move set for a character which is why other characters (Dark Pit) got added. Of course Dr. Mario is way more important and relevant than Dark Pit.

 

[Kevandre]

I think it does matter, but I don't think that it's necessary.

Like, I think it'd be cool if the new Fire Emblem character was the villain of the upcoming game. We don't need more Lords imo, just put in some difference, like Robin is. If FESwitch is a Genealogy Remake, put Arvis in there. He'd certainly be interesting, I think. Plus Arvis is voiced by Xander Mobus in Heroes so it's perfect lol

 

[DBPirate]

Depends. If there is a different protagonist or cast every game (Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, and as far as new characters go, Pokémon), then it doesn't matter as we have seen with Marth and Jigglypuff.

If the cast is largely the same every game and there are very few one-off characters (Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby), then I would say it's more important.

I really wish Sakurai would go with the former for Zelda because I hate being stuck with Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

 

[UserKev]

Its definitely an argument that piss me off with admittedly follow up behind it. Zelda and Donkey Kong are definitely "Historically Important" Nintendo franchises, this **** rule shouldn't apply to.

Thank you for this topic.

 

[Quillion]

Depends. If there is a different protagonist or cast every game (Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, and as far as new characters go, Pokémon), then it doesn't matter as we have seen with Marth and Jigglypuff.

If the cast is largely the same every game and there are very few one-off characters (Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby), then I would say it's more important.

I really wish Sakurai would go with the former for Zelda because I hate being stuck with Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

Thing is, Zelda is something of a gray area between the former and the latter. I guess Sakurai sees sticking with the recurring characters as easier. Sheik only gets by due to Grandfather Clause.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sheik isn't a "grandfather clause" case overall. She got in due to the gimmick with Zelda. She only got into Brawl due to them having a concept art to work with.

He definitely looks more at main games outside of Pokemon, where he looks more at the anime and movies instead.

Clones are last minute additions and aren't really something that applies to this so-called rule. It's more a pattern of where he looks for main game additions. He doesn't ignore spin-offs, obviously(as content from are very often put in in general in some way), but it tends to not be used as much as main games overall for character options.

Another thing to note is he really hasn't spoken at all upon this, so we only have a pattern for regular additions to look at. It is possible. We literally got... one example with Awakening. That's kind of it.

On the other hand, he wants Geno in, who is from a spin-off. It hasn't happened yet, but that's a legal issue as is.

 

[Quillion]

Sheik isn't a "grandfather clause" case overall. She got in due to the gimmick with Zelda. She only got into Brawl due to them having a concept art to work with.

That's my point. Sheik's only in because of OoT being the most recent Zelda game with Princess Zelda in it. If it were Wind Waker, Tetra would be the exception to the Zelda "no one shot" rule.

He definitely looks more at main games outside of Pokemon, where he looks more at the anime and movies instead.

I don't get why people say this. He definitely looks at a mix of the games and anime in regards to Pokémon. The anime and movies only give Sakurai a good indicator of which Pokémon is being promoted at the time. Smash content, particularly trophies, almost never directly reference anime/movie content in spite of this. (I say "almost" because I know Ash is in one trophy description).

Clones are last minute additions and aren't really something that applies to this so-called rule. It's more a pattern of where he looks for main game additions. He doesn't ignore spin-offs, obviously(as content from are very often put in in general in some way), but it tends to not be used as much as main games overall for character options.

Another thing to note is he really hasn't spoken at all upon this, so we only have a pattern for regular additions to look at. It is possible. We literally got... one example with Awakening. That's kind of it.

On the other hand, he wants Geno in, who is from a spin-off. It hasn't happened yet, but that's a legal issue as is.

Still, you have to wonder why we got Dr. Mario and not Hammer Bro Mario, for instance.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's my point. Sheik's only in because of OoT being the most recent Zelda game with Princess Zelda in it. If it were Wind Waker, Tetra would be the exception to the Zelda "no one shot" rule.

It's not even a rule, though. It's a fanrule. We don't know why he doesn't look at some of the other characters at this time. One could argue Tingle is not put in due to having too much mixed reactions.

I don't get why people say this. He definitely looks at a mix of the games and anime in regards to Pokémon. The anime and movies only give Sakurai a good indicator of which Pokémon is being promoted at the time. Smash content, particularly trophies, almost never directly reference anime/movie content in spite of this. (I say "almost" because I know Ash is in one trophy description).

Because he actually said it. He most often takes the anime/movies into account. Not in every case. Pokemon Trainer and Greninja are literally the sole exceptions. Everybody else was chosen from the anime/movies instead. It's because it promotes the most notable Pokemon, making it significantly easier. And it could be argued his choices for Pokemon Trainer took the anime into account a bit. Squirtle and Charizard were prominent there. Ivysaur was the only leftover one, and coincidentally, Ash's Bulbasaur almost evolved. I still consider it a coincidence, but the fact he compares Pokemon Trainer to the anime characters instead makes it harder to say if he took any of that into account.

Still, you have to wonder why we got Dr. Mario and not Hammer Bro Mario, for instance.

Because there's literally no way to make Hammer Bro Mario a clone. It doesn't make sense. He has to have a different moveset due to using a hammer. Dr. Mario wasn't just added for "ease of clone", but he also wanted to add the music. So that's part of it too. He also isn't an actual proper character so much as a costume in a game. It's true what Dr. Mario technically is, but don't forget he's pretty much the star of his own series. It was obvious who to choose. The music is also part of it too. So there you go, because of the music.

 

[StormC]

Zelda is hampered by a lack of a recurring cast outside of the core trio. Impa is the closest thing to a series regular besides them at this point.

 

[UserKev]

Zelda is hampered by a lack of a recurring cast outside of the core trio. Impa is the closest thing to a series regular besides them at this point.

But this could have been ultimately avoided. We could have had Midna in Brawl, cut in Smash 4 in place of Ghirahim with Impa as the locked addition, repeating the same process. It would have been badass, interesting and represented the one off tradition of Zelda instead of letting the bs settle.

That potential.

 

[StormC]

But this could have been ultimately avoided. We could have had Midna in Brawl, cut in Smash 4 in place of Ghirahim with Impa as the locked addition, repeating the same process. It would have been badass, interesting and represented the one off tradition of Zelda instead of letting the bs settle.

That potential.

Continuously cutting characters in favor of new ones is a sure way to piss off the fans.

 

[UserKev]

Continuously cutting characters in favor of new ones is a sure way to piss off the fans.

Fans will be pissed off either way. "Looks at my self in the mirror" ** them. At least they'll be in the game. Just go back and play the right one and positively, they can come back as DLC.

All about benefits and strategy.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Continuously cutting characters in favor of new ones is a sure way to piss off the fans.

Who gaf? Most of them will still buy the game. What makes Smash fans such children compared to fans of other fighting games?

 

[StormC]

Creating characters you know probably won’t stick around next installment is just a way of admitting all these characters have going for them is being flavor of the month.

It’s a terribly inefficient development model when those hours and resources could be used on characters with staying power instead of an obligatory “Zelda rep.” I say this as someone whose favorite Zelda character is Ghirahim.

 

[UserKev]

Creating characters you know probably won’t stick around next installment is just a way of admitting all these characters have going for them is being flavor of the month.

It’s a terribly inefficient development model when those hours and resources could be used on characters with staying power instead of an obligatory “Zelda rep.” I say this as someone whose favorite Zelda character is Ghirahim.

Nah. Its about at least having them playable instead of hopelessly left sitting in the rows of the stadium.

I respect you but you totally fell victim to this rule. I'll leave you be.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Creating characters you know probably won’t stick around next installment is just a way of admitting all these characters have going for them is being flavor of the month.

It’s a terribly inefficient development model when those hours and resources could be used on characters with staying power instead of an obligatory “Zelda rep.” I say this as someone whose favorite Zelda character is Ghirahim.

But Sheik is in, Captain Falcon is in, ****ing JIGGLYPUFF is in, Rosalina is in. Apparently they really like that "terribly inefficient development model."

 

[StormC]

But Sheik is in, Captain Falcon is in, ****ing JIGGLYPUFF is in, Rosalina is in. Apparently they really like that "terribly inefficient development model."

-Sheik was added as part of a transformation gimmick.
-Captain Falcon's series was getting games until post-Brawl, at which point he had three games of seniority.
-Jigglypuff was a pseudo-clone who is arguably always going to be relevant in some way to Pokemon because of the way Pokemon works with all the Pokemon being in each new game (not to mention because the first playable Fairy type). Also one of the original 12.
-Rosalina is the biggest Mario character added in the last ten years, who eventually became playable in a Super Mario game and has a continued presence in Mario's plentiful spin-offs. She isn't going anywhere, whether it's Mario or Smash.

Nah. Its about at least having them playable instead of hopelessly left sitting in the rows of the stadium.

I respect you but you totally fell victim to this rule. I'll leave you be.

Just because my tastes aren't being specifically catered to doesn't mean I "fell victim" to anything.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But Sheik is in, Captain Falcon is in, ****ing JIGGLYPUFF is in, Rosalina is in. Apparently they really like that "terribly inefficient development model."

No they weren't. Except Sheik. The rest of those are from active franchises and in multiple games. Jigglypuff was a recurring character in the games and anime. Same with Rosalina(she was in multiple games before Smash, and though chosen for other reasons, had staying power already. We saw this quite constantly). Sheik is the only example remotely close and she stayed by pure luck in Brawl. She was going to be cut if they didn't have that character concept art. Did you forget that the GameCube had an F-Zero game too? And GBA?

You also have to remember that Smash 64 didn't have a large list to pull from anyway.

Let's also remember that the Zelda series isn't like other series. It rotates characters severely often(with at this point Link being really the only one to appear in every game, ignoring specific spin-offs related to the series that stars someone else, of course) to the point very few are even iconic beyond the triforce trio. Impa, Tingle, and Midna are kind of the closest we got to other iconic characters(Tetra is iffy, but also a form of Zelda, so is just part of the triforce trio in some way. Which is also part of why Sheik was very easy to keep even when split.).

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If I understand correctly, you two are arguing that these characters are still in Smash not because they were flavors of the month, but because of the sunk cost fallacy?

 

[UserKev]

Just because my tastes aren't being specifically catered to doesn't mean I "fell victim" to anything.

You basically don't care about those characters being in. You aren't trying to think of solutions for them. Your completely following the worst scenario. There's no escape for you.

You definitely fell victim, my dude.

 

[DBPirate]

Despite their games being not so recent, Midna and Skull Kid are both "one-off" Zelda characters that are massively popular and are incredibly easy to create movesets for. Thanks to their remasters, they are still relevant today. Their inclusion in Smash seems warranted to me, whereas support for other one-offs like Ghirahim has died off a little.

But cutting characters and replacing them every time is a poor way of working around the issue that Zelda has. I think that Sakurai should wait, see which characters stand the test of time and are still beloved years after their games release (Midna, Skull Kid, and Tetra I suppose) and then put them in Smash. Otherwise, we're left with Link, a Link clone, a poor Zelda, Sheik, and a Captain Falcon clone.

I stand by my opinion that Zelda, out of all of Nintendo's franchises in the game, is treated the worst as far as characters go.

 

[JCSuperCell]

I don't care who gets in as long as they bring in my boy Ghirahim...

 

[UserKev]

Despite their games being not so recent, Midna and Skull Kid are both "one-off" Zelda characters that are massively popular and are incredibly easy to create movesets for. Thanks to their remasters, they are still relevant today. Their inclusion in Smash seems warranted to me, whereas support for other one-offs like Ghirahim has died off a little.

But cutting characters and replacing them every time is a poor way of working around the issue that Zelda has. I think that Sakurai should wait, see which characters stand the test of time and are still beloved years after their games release (Midna, Skull Kid, and Tetra I suppose) and then put them in Smash. Otherwise, we're left with Link, a Link clone, a poor Zelda, Sheik, and a Captain Falcon clone.

I stand by my opinion that Zelda, out of all of Nintendo's franchises in the game, is treated the worst as far as characters go.

Skull Kid has became a beloved character years after his game, peak support for the character pre Brawl and has since been boosted. Now watch as he isn't included in Smash Switch.

The characters you mentioned can actually become beloved through Smash like Captain Falcon, Ness, Ice Climbers and Roy but aren't given a chance. Still though, I'm just gonna magically predict how many likes your going to get for that post.

 

[DBPirate]

Skull Kid has became a beloved character years after his game, peak support for the character pre Brawl and has since been boosted. Now watch as he isn't included in Smash Switch.

I think he has a chance but since the Zelda series has been stagnant in Smash since Melee (how amazing is that?), I'm not getting my hopes up.

Fire Emblem has more unique characters than Zelda. Let that sink in.

 

[UserKev]

I think he has a chance but since the Zelda series has been stagnant in Smash since Melee (how amazing is that?), I'm not getting my hopes up.

Fire Emblem has more unique characters than Zelda. Let that sink in.

I'll let it sink through me right into the toilet. Fire Emblem has more unique characters than Zelda that has way less. I say give the less an increase.

 

[WingedSupernova]

On the regards of why certain characters are in that aren't very relevant anymore, I think that boils down to certain fan backlash that would happen if those characters weren't included at all. For example, Sheik has been a very good character to use in the competitive scene in multiple games, so even though she only appeared in Ocarina of Time she's still in because she has a unique move set and fans love using her competitively. Sakurai not only has to take into consideration how the character fares in a popularity standpoint in their own series, but also how they stack up against other possible additions, and, if they're a returning fighter, how well they were received in the previous Smash game.

Even if the character's series or the character itself doesn't have a wide following normally, taking into consideration how they are received in Smash is key in developing the roster. Jigglypuff is not a mega iconic Pokemon like Pikachu and Charizard are, but in Smash Bros Jigglypuff is either loved or hated (depending on whether you play Melee or not ha) because of how unique it is. If Jigglypuff were cut, you can bet that thousands if not millions of fans would cry out against its absence. Captain Falcon is another one. Smash Bros has effectively defined who Captain Falcon is through his play style and move set. If they cut him just because he's not relevant anymore it would be the scandal of the century.

Look at cut veterans like Wolf. I don't know of many people that were begging for Wolf to be added to Brawl, but after he was added and became a very viable character in the game, his absence in Smash 4 led a huge amount of people on social media to pull for his inclusion in Smash 4 DLC and Smash 5. Sakurai most likely took him out because he was a last second inclusion in Brawl and another semi-clone to the Star Fox series. If this isn't evidence of Smash being a defining characteristic of certain characters I don't know what is.

Ultimately I think that it's likely that most characters that had unique move sets and popularity in Smash will get re-added to this next edition. A character that I'd say is shaky on that regard is Wii Fit Trainer, but we'll just have to see what Sakurai thinks. Ultimately this just comes down to opinions and semantics, which are typically something you should compare and explain, not argue about. Let's have a calm discussion on this instead of bashing each other for our viewpoints.

 

[StormC]

You basically don't care about those characters being in. You aren't trying to think of solutions for them. Your completely following the worst scenario. There's no escape for you.

You definitely fell victim, my dude.

Because I acknowledge there's no good reason to put Ghirahim in besides "I like him."

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I think he has a chance but since the Zelda series has been stagnant in Smash since Melee (how amazing is that?), I'm not getting my hopes up.

Fire Emblem has more unique characters than Zelda. Let that sink in.

Fire Emblem has more unique characters? Even though they all use swords?

 

[DBPirate]

Fire Emblem has more unique characters? Even though they all use swords?

Characters with unique movesets (other than counter) -- Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin.

In contrast, Zelda has Link, Zelda, Sheik.

 

[Koopaul]

Creating characters you know probably won’t stick around next installment is just a way of admitting all these characters have going for them is being flavor of the month.

It’s a terribly inefficient development model when those hours and resources could be used on characters with staying power instead of an obligatory “Zelda rep.” I say this as someone whose favorite Zelda character is Ghirahim.

Inefficient? You know in each new game they have to remake every character from the ground up. It would be no more work to make a newcomer than it would to recreate a veteran.

This is why cuts exist. The developers can't bring back every single veteran and make newcomers. They need time to make newcomers which means time taken away from bringing back some veterans.

Cuts are inevitable part of Smash.

 

[StormC]

Inefficient? You know in each new game they have to remake every character from the ground up. It would be no more work to make a newcomer than it would to recreate a veteran.

This is why cuts exist. The developers can't bring back every single veteran and make newcomers. They need time to make newcomers which means time taken away from bringing back some veterans.

Cuts are inevitable part of Smash.

Cuts are inevitable but that doesn't mean we should be creating a rotating door of characters expecting them to be cut. Smash has a much higher cast retention than other fighting games, unique characters are rarely put on the chopping block.

It's also just plain not true that newcomers take as much time than veterans. Newcomers need to be conceptualized and tweaked while veterans have all their animations and moves ready to go. Assets can also be ported over between games; Sakurai made a point to mention that Mewtwo did have to be rebuilt because the assets in Melee are too old to be used.

 

[UserKev]

Ultimately I think that it's likely that most characters that had unique move sets and popularity in Smash will get re-added to this next edition. A character that I'd say is shaky on that regard is Wii Fit Trainer, but we'll just have to see what Sakurai thinks. Ultimately this just comes down to opinions and semantics, which are typically something you should compare and explain, not argue about. Let's have a calm discussion on this instead of bashing each other for our viewpoints.

We are calm. I have nothing against these users. I'm just a bit blown away. If they were Sakurai, would they still not put POTENTIAL characters in the game they write off as to be "one offs"?

Because I acknowledge there's no good reason to put Ghirahim in besides "I like him."

I'm sorry, dude. You can't seriously be acting legit.

Us liking the character is irrelevant. Lets just look at what they can bring to the table because Ghirahim, DOSE have potential. He has personality, defining fancy aesthetics and style that's missing from Smash.

Real ** If I'm a Ghirahim supporter, your aren't a Ghirahim fan.

 

[StormC]

I'm sorry, dude. You can't seriously be acting legit.

Us liking the character is irrelevant. Lets just look at what they can bring to the table because Ghirahim, DOSE have potential. He has personality, defining fancy aesthetics and style that's missing from Smash.

Real ** If I'm a Ghirahim supporter, your aren't a Ghirahim fan.

Ghirahim has all that going for him. So do dozens of other characters. So how else do we prioritize characters in Smash? Importance and relevancy are what drives the majority of the roster. Where does Ghirahim fit into that?

I'd be ecstatic if Ghirahim was in Smash, don't get me wrong, if very confused. But his fifteen minutes of fame are up and I acknowledge that. There's no need to claim I'm not a Ghirahim fan just because I'm looking at the bigger picture.