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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Superspright

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
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@ X WaNtEd X X WaNtEd X
It's sort of like Falco's on platform nair. If you connect with uair on the frame of the drop through without FFing you will stay on the platform. It's not really that useful IMO. But it sure looks cool as ****. But it looks like because of the edge-cancel he was able to uair immediately but it does change your stage-contact box so it probably clipped the edge again. If it was done on purpose that's pretty impressive and nuanced.
 
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Yort

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
168
Location
Georgia
So you know how falcon can upthrow someone on a platform then shorthop below the platform and react with a dj stomp to tech in, tech away, and no tech

Can't ganon technically do this as well because the start up frames on his stomp are the same? enlighten me.
 

Bizzarro Flame

Smash Lord
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I would have to say this only works when Ganondorf up-throws below the platform because most of the time if you are too far away from the platform, then you cannot cover the tech-away option of your opponent on the other side of the platform.
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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Perhaps you could also try to cover both options from under the platform with a full hop dair? That way you could double jump waveland off the platform into another jump and catch them with a uair for extra swag points.
 

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
I would have to say this only works when Ganondorf up-throws below the platform because most of the time if you are too far away from the platform, then you cannot cover the tech-away option of your opponent on the other side of the platform.
I agree with this. On dreamland, if you up throw onto a platform from center stage, you have to mind game your opponent for a punish if they tech away. I'm pretty sure this actually applies to battlefield and Pokemon stadium too
 

Cav

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
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Location
Arizona
Hey guys what are your opinions on Samus as a secondary? Been super interested in her recently but how drastic are her and Ganon's play style differences?
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
Hey guys what are your opinions on Samus as a secondary? Been super interested in her recently but how drastic are her and Ganon's play style differences?
They have very drastically different playstyles, and Samus takes a lot of work to get good with. She can cover the spacies matchups pretty well, but she still has problems with Sheik and Falcon, just like Ganon does. You want to choose a secondary that deals with Ganon's bad matchups well, i.e: Fox, Falco, and Sheik. Good candidate characters for these matchups are Marth, Sheik, Peach, Puff, ICs, maybe Doc and maaaybe Luigi. Beyond that, you're better off only having Ganon as your main, or completely switching to Samus as your main. Even a Doc secondary to Ganon lets you have a little easier time vs space animals, and even Sheik to a slight degree.
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
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I wish it were easier to pivot tilt. I can only pivot jab, aerial, or grab. Pivot ftilt feels like an extremely good spacing tool.
 

Bizzarro Flame

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Perhaps you could also try to cover both options from under the platform with a full hop dair? That way you could double jump waveland off the platform into another jump and catch them with a uair for extra swag points.
That's exactly what I'm saying. As long as you up-throw from under the platform, you can cover all options with full-hop d-air. The only tricky part is when they don't tech and they can gain invincibility from get-up attack right away.
 

tm

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
819
Location
NWOH
I think that if you play well, the neural game is definitely in Peach's favor. Pulling turnips is pretty easy, your moves are generally a lot less punishable than his, and you can throw them out faster.
FTFY

But then the edgeguard continues usually, if i go too low she can just grab the edge but if I go too high then im off stage and thats gg. Its really hard to bait the nair near the wall.
IMO your goal when recovering low against peach should be to tech the nair. If she dairs you you have to hit down and hold it as soon as you realize that she's doing dair. If you do it quick enough you will fall too low for her to nair you, and you can recover low again (dair will still pop you upwards if you are at really high % though).

If you want to try something else, you can experiment with DIing the dair away / in. If you DI it away, then she has to float away from stage to make it combo into nair, and if you get her to expect this, then you can mix it up and DI in (although she can still react to this, but sometimes the nair will reverse which means you saved your stock).

If you keep going low and she keeps dairing (to prevent you from teching) you can experiment with upBing early or other things; personally I've never played someone who never just went for nair after seeing that I could DI out of the dair.

And yeah she can just grab the ledge if you go low, but that requires repositioning and is more difficult (almost no peaches go for this). It's also scary for them because if you still make it onstage they basically can't kill you for it (only grab or dsmash, or reverse nair or something). If you know that your opponent is ready and willing to grab ledge if you go low, that's when you should start making it ambiguous as to wether or not you will / can land onstage (you can still tech if they nair early, and ofc DI the dair down if they do that instead). Also stare at them before you upB, and if they turn around / turn around and start floating, that's your cue that they might go for ledge, so upB earlier to go onstage (but be prepared to DI the bair / reverse nair / fair).

But really I think almost all peaches will not try to grab ledge, because they believe that they never have to in order to secure the kill. As hard as it is to get back, it's still much easier to recover vs Peach than it is vs Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Falcon, Puff.

Oh and Kage, make sure not to upB right away when you walltech the first hit of her dsmash edgeguard. I saw you get flustered when you died for that (happens with sheik too). Also you can't downB as much as you do vs Vwins, he's just too good lol (even though you already don't do it all the time). If he's ready for it with a turnip or he's standing next to ledge waiting to float out low -> nair, you should probably just upB high and fade in as far as you can / DI as well as you can. Yeah it sucks but he at least has to hit you more than one more time to secure the kill.

So you know how falcon can upthrow someone on a platform then shorthop below the platform and react with a dj stomp to tech in, tech away, and no tech

Can't ganon technically do this as well because the start up frames on his stomp are the same? enlighten me.
I want to test this sometime. He might actually have trouble with landing on the platform before the stomp goes off on some stages. Also I'm guessing BF plats might be too wide to cover tech away. Dair has mad long startup time so you'll have to do the double jump dair shortly after they hit the ground (6-10 frames), before you have time to react to their tech option (if you are trying to cover in place / no tech). But then you only have something like 8 frames to fade all the way to either edge of the platform with 'optimal' reaction to which direction they teched, so I'm personally going to deem this unfeasible. Something more practical could be doing this in between tech in place and tech roll in, and just covering 3/4 options that way.

Another possibility is covering tech in / tech away with DJ stomp on reaction, and covering tech in / no tech with dj uair on reaction. If this is feasible, it would definitely be something worth practicing. Combined with the previous 3/4 coverage (if feasible), it would be a really strong mixup where the opponent is likely to get stomped.
 

why

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Jun 14, 2014
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So what do you guys have in terms of out of shield options? I keep getting stuck in my shield, which in itself is bad, but anything would be helpful.
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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So what do you guys have in terms of out of shield options? I keep getting stuck in my shield, which in itself is bad, but anything would be helpful.
Learn the appropriate times to wavedash out of shield to get out of shield pressure. Don't always try to attack from out of shield unless your opponent does something stupid and laggy on your shield. You're going to want to get used to timing jumping out of shield into a wavedash away, as this can be tricky when it comes to the shieldstun that can be applied on your shield. It's the hardest to do against Fox, cause his shield pressure, if perfect, is near impossible for Ganon to get out of. Falco's shield pressure lacks a lot though, and if you wait for the shine, you can usually wavedash out of shield right after and hit him with an ftilt.
 

tm

Smash Ace
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So what do you guys have in terms of out of shield options? I keep getting stuck in my shield, which in itself is bad, but anything would be helpful.
Rolling out is bread and butter. Wavedash is good if there's a significant gap in their pressure (15+ frames). You can also upB in the same situation, and it will catch many people off guard, but if you miss them you will have no double jump if they punish you (also at low % it might not knock them down, and they will be able to punish you even if you hit them). Try not to shield so much to begin with. Learn to powershield so that you have more options (jab, tilts, smashes, specials), or crouch cancel a hit from the opponent and punish it (almost always worth it as ganon).
 

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
@ PseudoTurtle PseudoTurtle -Brah, when you coming to Miami? You literally have "SFL Ganon" written all over you. Btw, does any Ganon mains here have any tattoos? I'm probably gonna get one soon.
Dude, I would love to come out there and chill with you and linguini (if he ever comes out of whatever cave he's hiding in). Ian and Mark are more upstate, right?

I love the midwest ganon style (Eddie, Bushman, Trail), but I'd be lying if I didn't say FL was where ganon was taken to that next level.

I might take a trip down one of these days, once I can start making a little money.

What are you guys thinking of getting? I don't have any, but my brother's tatted up on both arms. Not that I wouldn't get one, I just don't know what to get lol.

ONE MORE THING: Why don't you post those twitch links at VS anymore? I'm forced to go to youtube to watch your recent matches now.

edit: nevermind haha
 
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Coastward

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Nov 6, 2010
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Pumpkin Hill
i was definitely thinking about something ganon related, still gotta think about it some more tho.

also, i feel like the only ganon regions are FL, midwest, and Canada. everywhere else has none or just 1 ganon representing them. rip WC and tristate.
 

PseudoTurtle

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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
I always forget about Canada. You guys have a ton of ganons, especially now that n0ne is there. Love u Canada. Midwest is overlooked in general too, but we have a fair few ganons here.

I haven't played in a while. Looking forward to this tournament next Saturday! Watch for me on stream, I think I can make it. Lots of killers there though.
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Not many Ganons in the south apart from FL. I'm probably the best Ganon main in NC and Yort... well sorry man but Chaddd has gotten more active recently, so he's the better GA Ganon.
 

Coastward

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tfw n0ne stole my title of best ganon in toronto just by moving back home.

also, schools almost done for me, so im gonna be grinding more ganon techskill and theories once i finish my exams.
 

tm

Smash Ace
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NWOH
i was definitely thinking about something ganon related, still gotta think about it some more tho.

also, i feel like the only ganon regions are FL, midwest, and Canada. everywhere else has none or just 1 ganon representing them. rip WC and tristate.
I think there are ganons everywhere just not good ones lol. Don't sleep on Brandandorf tho
 

Coastward

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I think there are ganons everywhere just not good ones lol. Don't sleep on Brandandorf tho
yeah i know brandandorf is godlike, but he gets overlooked so much because bizz is from the same region. your statement is pretty true tho. i would even go as far to say its not even about skill representation that gets the ganondorfs noticed, more about representation as the person as a whole (ie, their personality, stream hype, etc).
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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Aug 6, 2006
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16,250
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Montreal, Quebec
When I went to Michigan and Boston there were a ton of Ganons playing on TVs. Not sure if its because I was there or there actually is a lot of them.
 
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