Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[cptjiggles69]

How come? Too much work and school and stuff?

Sounds like my fate is only going to 1 tournament a year or something.. Man... >_<

 

[X WaNtEd X]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ac2TX7K4N0

I made some awful mistakes this set. I really wish I wasn't only recorded against much better players (Irish mafia is like one of the best players in new england) but perhaps that's a good thing. Give me some tips guys.

I started to pick up on what to do against his peach towards the end of the first game, but he recognized that and just went falcon and I couldn't adapt at all and just got creamed.

One thing I did pick up from mafia was that you can DI the third hit of peach's dsmash down with the c stick and I forget exactly what the benefit of doing that is, but apparently you can get out of it?

Fortunately, I won the next two losers matches and placed decently.

what's a dark lord gotta do to get some feedback around here?

 

[cptjiggles69]

i took game two off fiction in a money match at evo...

with bowser.

I can respect that. Bowser is tough to play as! Also i like red ganon

 

[tm]

@ spider_sense
And I'm not nearly as good as you, but I'll offer my advice anyway (take as much or as little of it as you want to).

Vs Blea I think you were too okay with giving up stage positioning. IMO luigi isn't a huge threat to ganon in neutral but if he gets you offstage you're toast (or should be) so I think focusing more on stage control would help (it also decreases the amount of space he has to move around [and trick / bait you with movement] without committing to an attack). Along that same vein, when you were near ledge he would often catch you trying to get 'through him' back towards center stage with overcommitments.
I also think you were too okay with being above him. When you are above and in front of him, it's much easier for him to project where you will move and how you will attack, and if he can reach you before you land that's when he can start a combo or get you offstage (toast).
Also he was reading some of your double jumps which often led directly to the end of your stock, so watch out for that.

If you disagree with any of that you can probably dismiss it lol.
Anyway awesome sets dude. Nice to see you going that close with some of the biggest FL names.

 

[tm]

what's a dark lord gotta do to get some feedback around here?

I also watched your set. Will give some peach advice:

You were really jumping a lot in neutral or after he hit you, and vs peach, like most matchups you want to be below her generally, but you often approached from platforms or jumped above her instead of staying on the ground. If she corners you, jumping isn't going to help you since all her aerials will still come out before yours. IMO shielding vs peach is pretty underrated, and if you find yourself pressured like that it's not a terrible option (she isn't fast enough to cover your roll on reaction).
You also have to respect turnips more. It's tempting to fight through them but if she gets you with one it can lead into a nasty combo -> edgeguard -> death way too easily. Until you are very comfortable with them, I recommend putting a lot of attention into the turnip game when she has one out. Catching them is ideal but shielding them is still a lot better than getting hit by them (beware of the space it still controls after you shield one, and you can also catch it after shielding it, but you will be committing to spending time above her). Also take note that her 'smash' throw on the ground is much faster and harder to react to than her aerial throw, and be familiar with the differences in space that they cover (their range and the way they arc).
Most of your attacks were pretty telegraphed and he was able to wait them out and then punish. Try to bait with passive pressure and movement instead of committing to an approach. And if they ever fall into that space above you, instant upair is godlike.

The waveland tricks that you did were sick when you pulled them off, so keep working to get more variety in your movement. You did make a lot of technical errors, so keep working on that too.

Again, take only what you want from this as I am no god, only an outside perspective. Good luck improving

 

[Linguini]

Jason needs more dtilt, grabs when he's blatantly shielding, cc grabs, cc dtilts.

When you get him off the stage having the ability to get quick kills is a great way to pull ahead. You just gotta have the balls to go out there....against luigi is always risky but you're letting him get back way too easy freeson

lol ganon drama...those were the days. In my prime I was the best ganon though somewhere around 2010 but I suck now so by default kage is the best now unless someone decides to change that. trololol

 

[Divinokage]

Jason my bad I never watched those vids of you and blea a while back. been crazy busy at work and all I have is my phone. I'll try to step it up lol

And lol at kage. He refused to MM Clay (porkchops) after getting bopped in friendlies. But if Jason beats clay, that is a "weak *** achievement". Comedy gold.

Refused to MM? What? I never refuse to MM, where did you get that from? If you want to talk ****, at least get your facts straight. If you really wanted to be relevant tell that to my 2600 followers.

Cpt. Jiggles, it's actually just super expensive to go to tournaments, i don't live with my parents anymore since 3 years ago and i just got a new job at Warner Bros so taking days off isn't really gonna happen until a few months later. If I want to take the plane anywhere, even inside Canada from Montreal it is 500$ minimum. It's ridiculous!!

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

what's a dark lord gotta do to get some feedback around here?

gonna crit this soon if someone else aside from tm doesn't lol

also canada sux

 

[Renth]

Sadly, even with the warrior spirit. Kage would probably only get around 9th at a florida tournament with full attendance.

That number being very generous

 

[Divinokage]

That FL bias is real.

 

[Renth]

That FL bias is real.

Wizzy, Plup, Shiz, Hbox, Col Bol, Uber Ice, Pork Chops, just a fast list off the top of my head I strongly believe you would not beat.

 

[Divinokage]

You do know I'm a top 30 player for a reason, right? What's this underestimation? Oh wait it's true this board = all FL.. nevermind. Impossible to argue.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

nah he'd do well, but for him to think that getting upset by one of our players is out of the question is just as laughable as assuming he would get bodied.

florida is by far, without a doubt, the hardest place in the world for a ganondorf player to place well, when it comes down to regions. every player here, from the lowest scrub to the best in the state (hungrybox) has an absurd amount of practice vs ganondorf.

man this is a dumb discussion. ain't like kage is ever gonna come down here ever lol, closest he ever got was georgia back in 08

 

[Divinokage]

nah he'd do well, but for him to think that getting upset by one of our players is out of the question is just as laughable as assuming he would get bodied.

florida is by far, without a doubt, the hardest place in the world for a ganondorf player to place well, when it comes down to regions. every player here, from the lowest scrub to the best in the state (hungrybox) has an absurd amount of practice vs ganondorf.

man this is a dumb discussion. ain't like kage is ever gonna come down here ever lol, closest he ever got was georgia back in 08

Understandable, I simply think I have a good chance of winning against most player even if they have good Ganon xp.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Understandable, I simply think I have a good chance of winning against most player even if they have good Ganon xp.

of course. raw skill obviously is a huge factor. in any matter, i've always wanted to visit quebec because i know it's got to be an incredibly hard region to play ganondorf in, with vwins, bam, pkm, etc all there

 

[spider_sense]

Ehhhhh, Mark is right about this one. Way too many good players down here vs Ganon. Kage can hold his own, cause he's still very solid and whatnot, but the names he mentioned just dominate Ganon. I have 2600 followers on my twitter, but mostly ******* wanting the D.

 

[Coastward]

wall of text incoming, prepare ur butts.

so i went to the weekly today, feeling pretty good. i've been practicing tech skill on my own for a while now since i havent had a chance to play with an actual human. doubles started out first, made a few upsets with my partner and got 5th. nothing too notable, except that kongo jungle is such a ****ing troll.

singles start, and this is where i start getting a little nervous. i dont know what it was, but i just started to get hot and my hands felt light. begin the bracket against a mediocre samus, win 2-0 fairly easily. this is one of my best matchups so i got a sigh of relief very early. i then had to play weon-x, considered best player in our region. he goes falcon against me because he knows hes gonna win, and i sorta know this too but i definitely wanna give it my all. he wins game 1 on battlefield, pretty brutal. we go on to the next game, he bans yoshi's as predicted and i decide to take him to fountain. i dont know if it was a stroke of luck or if i wanted to win REALLY BADLY but i ended up taking the match off of him with a really solid edgeguard. i was so stoked, this is the first time ive ever done something this credible and i wanna do more. game 3, ban fd and we go to dreamland. i get 3 stocked. i choked, i dont know what it is with me. i just forget how to play, something in my mind tells me SITTING IN SHIELD IS THE ONLY SAFE THING TO DO. i just sit there and take hits and just let myself lose, AND I KNOW THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME and i want to improve on it, but i feel like im just incapable of doing it in a tourney setting. im just super confused.

anyway, i get knocked into losers but im feeling good about it since i took that 1 game against weon. i have to play against a marth that i feel that i can beat pretty solidly. game 1 we go to yoshi's, and i take it. i was getting a lot of stupid down b's on him which shouldnt have been working but i just took advantage of the abuse. game 2, fountain. i think by now he was starting to realize what i was doing and adapted to it, while i was too slow myself to see what he was doing. he ended up taking the game but i was close to ending it out. game 3 we go to fountain, i honestly dont remember why i counterpicked to this. the game went to final stock each and i ended up s'ding from ****ing up a ledgedash. i was pretty disappointed. my controller broke beforehand during doubles but i dont want to john about controllers. it was definitely my fault.

i ended up getting 17th, again. i have a curse. i want to improve, but i dont know where i need to start. i keep watching videos, trying to learn. i keep reading about frames and all this data. i have all of this knowledge inside of my head but when it comes to crunch time, i just blank out. for example if i played a falcon in tourney, i wouldnt be jabbing or ftilting his approaches. id just sit in shield because i feel threatened and i tense up. i just feel stuck, and i dont know if its because i dont have a full understanding of my character OR the game yet, or if its because i still have so much to experience.

just wanted to vent this out, its been really bugging me and any advice would help. being the "premiere" ganon in your region is kinda sucky since theres not too many people to ask for advice. thank god for smashboards.

tl;dr: i need help.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol .

 

[tm]

*snip*

My advice:
Take improvement one step at a time. No reason to freak out after one bad placement, or even 2, 3, 4, a dozen, as long as you know that you are still improving. Sounds like you need to play people more; experience is invaluable. But it sounds to me like you are overreacting a bit. Get recorded, learn from your mistakes, get better one situation at a time. You can't just get good in a certain matchup or against a certain player suddenly, it takes steps over time. So identify 1 thing that you need work on, find ways you can improve upon it, then practice doing so in real matches. Rinse & repeat for other situations until you run out (never).

 

[Linguini]

i lol'd xxxxxxx

 

[Renth]

Spider_Sense Vs. Blue Jello

http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/b/560211262 7:03:00

Stage striking ;

I assume he went first because Battlefield was struck. Not a lot of people understand that Battlefield is Ganondorfs best stage unlike popular opinion where everyone immediately bans yoshis.
________________________________________________________________
Fountain of Dreams.

Personal opinion Ganondorf has the advantage. General Ganondorf knowledge tip #1. Ganondof excels whenever an opponent is above him on platforms, forcing pressure on enemies, baiting out shields and the unique ledge canceling on his stage can lead to a lot of favorable opportunity for our dark lord.

(Baiting Shields and Ledge Canceling are two things I've been experimenting with and I am thrilled to share some information regarding those two things in the future.)

The only trade off is, it being a smaller stage. A character who's neutral game is dependent on getting inside of Ganondorf has a much less hard time getting in your face. So, your neutral spacing is slightly hindered in exchange for vertical advantage. Luigi will be facing you the same way he does Marth, his goal is to get inside of your zone and get the heaviest output he possibly can. If he gets inside, do everything in your power to reset to neutral or bait him onto a platform for stage dominance.
________________________________________________________________
Match Begin ;

7:03:44 - You start the match with a stomp through platform, I often - if it connects, unfortunately as good as this can be sometimes is very predictable and doesn't often work but when it does. I will immediately drop through and stomp again. Most players will tech in place and you can get huge damage output from it - Food for thought, if they predict it and wait for the stomp in the future, double jump over the get up attack and punish accordingly.

7:03:49 If you ever land in a double jump I strongly suggest you waveland or roll out. Good players vs. Ganondorf stare at the double jump circle indicator and will be hyper aggressive if they see it. Of course, that doesn't apply to this situation. I feel like a lot of ground was sacrificed when he saw you land with no input. Buffer rolls, defensive down tilts and smartly spaced aerials at all opportunity.

7:03:52 Very smart and I want to see everyone doing more of, If you space a back air and you feel you have vulnerability buffering a tilt, jab or roll to create pressure or space will make it harder for Luigi to penetrate your zone.

7:04:00 He got inside, once he finds his way in it's extremely difficult to find your center to reset to neutral. It's CRUCIAL you do everything in your power to keep him out of your zone, fight him as if he is Jigglypuff. Strong zoning and if he's in your face the only thing on your mind should be RESET-RESET-RESET to neutral as fast as possible.

7:04:05 Typical mistake I make also, you work so hard for a down throw combo and try to keep pressure and convert farther. Luigi is a character you have to respect even in these situations. He has a lot of fast activating hitboxes that can travel far distance seemingly instantly at times. Take your damage advantage you've gained and stay in neutral. Running into his zone makes you play his game, be smart and take your small gains. Which being a Ganondorf main it makes you go against your habits. A lot of what you want to do ; Rawr, Stomp, Kill, Destroy. Needs to be conditioned to Smart, Safe, Zone, Neutral.

7:04:07 Defensive stomps rarely ever work on Luigi, he has too many ways to work around it. He's not going to jump into it because he doesn't have to. Expect him to wait and bait all of your defensive aerial options like defensive down air. Rather than defensive aerials I suggest trying to get away from him by air dodging away to the safety of a higher platform. He wants to get into your zone and if you throw things out to keep him out without calculating what he wants then he is in your head, forcing you to play his game and a few small conversions that don't seem like much can be all the difference between victory and defeat.

7:04:25 Calculating miss-fires can be extremely difficult, he's off stage and you feel like you have the advantage, you run to where the miss-fire or regular side b missile will land and if you do not get there perfect he can defend himself. Do not sleep on Luigi's defensive potential, one of the reasons why he's such a good character is his defensive attributes. Respect them or get wrecked, your choice.

7:04:40 For a good portion of the section leading up to this you are spamming double jump a lot, much like I said earlier. A good player stares at Ganondorf's jump indicator underneath their jump. Ganondorf is very vulnerable after throwing out his second aerial, try to play a more ground based Ganondorf in this match up. Tilts, down specifically will lead to a lot of mileage. Should only play aerial Ganondorf when hes far away or when he's in a bad position above you on a platform.

7:04:49 It seemed like a good option to try to up air after the missed f air, because he was on a platform but he is aware of Ganondorf gimmicks. The double jump aerial game needs to be taken down a notch, he knew the up air we coming and could very easily counter with a n air. Which, I feel even if he didn't see coming he would have used n air on reaction to alleviate the pressure you put him in. Never throw out rogue aerials at luigi, it's begging for disaster.

7:05:06 Still being punished for double jumps, again. In fear of sounding like a broken record I would like to stress. A grounded smart zoning ganondorf is what you need to focus on in the match up. Aerial ~> Double Jump ~> Aerial will barely ever work on Luigi, in this case you are high in the air and using your double. You are giving him his space to get inside, basically by double jumping so often you are handing him the match up.

7:05:20 I feel like you are approaching him with your aerials, zoning my friend make him play your game. By going to him you are playing into Luigi's game and that is a game Ganondorf cannot win up close.

7:05:26 Side b ~> up air was good! Shortly after you approached once he fell out of the pressure. I stress you cannot follow up like this, if you hit him and try to chase him you again, are playing into his hands. Take those hits and immediately space an f air, he's been reacting to your approaches like that with a fast hitbox move every time. If you space a f air I almost guarantee he will run right into it.

^ End of match 1
________________________________________________________________

Match 2 counter pick ; I approve of Yoshi's for the same reason FoD was a good pick. - Consider trying FD for the same reason I like fighting Jiggs/Marth on FD. (personal preference of mine)

A match up where your primary focus is to keep them out of your zone. Grounded game is something a lot of Ganondorf mains needs to work on. Tilts, grabs, baiting them into their shield and basic fundamental follow ups work much better than waveland aerial gimmicks. Judging from the last match, if you stuck to fundamentals and less time on doing aerial double jump aerial you would be far harder for him to handle.
________________________________________________________________

Match 2 Begin ;

7:06:07 Watch what you're doing here at the start til now, you're jumping at him sporadically. Playing inside of his zone, throwing out aerials trying to play the pressure game like that in neutral does not work vs Luigi. Slow it down my friend, keep it slow. Make him play to you, force him into your tilts and make him come into the bad situations. He has many faster and stronger options up close than you do. Right off the bat you are handing him the advantage.

7:06:11 Perfect! Starter ~> conversion hit and didn't go hard trying to get a follow up, you just stood on the stage and kept your stage control! Keep up little hits like this and the matches more and more will turn into your favor.

7:06:23 Defense d air, doesn't work. Gotta try to find a way to create space. Defensive predictable aerials (all of us ganondorf mains do) Give your opponent opportunity to punish heavily. Your double jump gets blown and they get full stage control.

7:06:48 Everything you did leading up to this do that as often as you can, everything was well placed. You took advantage of him being above you and lead to easy pressure and conversions.

7:07:18 Grounded neutral game, yes. good. more lots more.

End match 2
________________________________________________________________
Match 3 counter pick ; dreamland

I feel you should also have advantage, you have more room to move around, you can force him on to platforms, you can control the grounded neutral. You survive longer and he should have to struggle to get in your zone on this stage because you have much more room to work with.
________________________________________________________________
Match 3 Begin ;

- That's all i'm going to do for now, it's 1 a.m. and i'm tired I feel the information I left here is more than adequate. Anything I were to say in this match I likely would have just echoed from previous matches.

I appreciate you asking me to critique your matches and l hope this is what you were looking for.

 

[Divinokage]

Ehhhhh, Mark is right about this one. Way too many good players down here vs Ganon. Kage can hold his own, cause he's still very solid and whatnot, but the names he mentioned just dominate Ganon. I have 2600 followers on my twitter, but mostly *****es wanting the D.

Even then.. now I have many more characters to deal with such players. My skills are enough to take care of them. =)

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

man i ****in love you guys

 

[Divinokage]

Ace is like "Lol" and ****. Being that old he's still able to fall that low arguing on the boards about skill level.

 

[-ACE-]

Kage how about I put you to to shame in ganon dittos and arm wrestling next big tourney you're at? BTW how did that professional fighting career end up? Still just a dumb video game player that thinks he's tough? That's too bad.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I do still play a lot actually, it's just that committing to a US tournament is pretty tough these days. It's so costly from Montreal.. Well now I have a new job starting in september so I want to do well at it.

I also heard from an obscure source you guys like to talk **** about my Ganon though it's pretty clear I can see it right here. I guess that's all you can do hiding behind your keyboards and weak *** achievements.. that's fine by me!

Kage, how is that **** talk? Like at all lol. I literally said you were the best ganon... Was it the rivalry with linguini? I stand by it, dude used to be mad good (still probably is, despite his constant insistence on how much he sucks now). He definitely gave you a run for your money and for a time, it was unclear who took the top ganon spot.

Spidey: very nice. Watch out for Pork Chops' rolls inward. I feel like you had the read a couple times, but couldn't quite get the timing right or something. Other than that, you and I should sit down and talk about falco because you're looking like a monster.

Vs blea, there's a little trick I used to do against one of my old training partners. When he pressures your shield just out of that uair range, don't roll because he's good at baiting those out. Instead just wavedash out of shield. I'm pretty sure it would work, as it worked against my buddy, but that was back when we were both pretty bad at this game. I think if you're quick enough, you may even be able to do it when he dairs your shield and get out of there before the nair comes out.

I really hope you'd be able to make it out to big house! Don't know if you've heard, but all the ganons will be there

Hulk: peach is my absolute worst match up. I lose to peaches, so don't expect to get any good advice from me.

 

[spider_sense]

LOL @ Kage getting salty at -Ace- what does age have to do with an e-debate anyways? He's not even that old; still a spritely charismatic young man imo. (I've watch this n!gga do a Ganon double jump into the pool) Anyways, going to smash the record today and hoping to get some quality matches uploaded for critiques and views.

Shoutouts to Pasta/Mark/TM/Psuedoturtle for the Luigi help, I'll take everything all you said into heavy consideration. I can't wait to rub the win into Blea's face.

 

[-ACE-]

Disclaimer: I read my own sh** talk and laugh out loud. I do not hate kage, and despite his assumptions I respect him as a player. I just enjoy giving him **** lol.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

hopefully jason and i can get some good footage recorded for you guys.

though i never get on stream, so...

 

[cptjiggles69]

At kage. I used the nair to combo falcon. I forget what but i think ot was a throw into stomp into nair. Yay

 

[cptjiggles69]

Dont trade with peach. And make her approach you. As for throws i have been told d throw only . Respect her turnips , as those will set up her traps. I think you shouldn't be afraid to be close to peach either since you have range but stay out of grab range. Im sure ACE can elaborate more

 

[Superspright]

You can trade with her as long as the trades are good...but you should try to avoid them. She doesn't have many good sends.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Great set spider sense.

However, I don't know what the hell one of the commentators was smoking when he said you were my mentor. Misinformation right there.

 

[Renth]

Great set spider sense.

However, I don't know what the hell one of the commentators was smoking when he said you were my mentor. Misinformation right there.

commentators often suck ass

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

dude ganon ****ing sucks, **** ganon

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah spider_sense would never claim that. thats ludicrous haha.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Ganon is the most broken character in the game. With chain-grabs starting from 14% - 180% for spacies, 0%-80% for sheik, amazing punish game, up-air big enough to cover almost the whole platform and so on. He also has two of the strongest moves in the game: warlock punch and up-tilt. How could any character compete against Ganon?

I almost quit this game because I made too many pros cry for losing to this broken char.

 

[Coastward]

bizz mm me $20 at bh4 ill smack u

 

[Divinokage]

Kage how about I put you to to shame in ganon dittos and arm wrestling next big tourney you're at? BTW how did that professional fighting career end up? Still just a dumb video game player that thinks he's tough? That's too bad.

Lol, I've fought before, you know nothing about me! Put me to shame in Ganon dittos? 200$ MM at least FT5. I can already predict you'll back out.

 

[-ACE-]

Sounds like a good prediction. Let's see if it works out for you. BTW you'd have to show me the money. I already have that much on me at any given moment so no worries there.

Also I'm not claiming that I know you, I'm justputting you on blast a bit haha. but had to explain that **** talk on the boards =/= real life LOL.