Ussi
Smash Legend
The greatest Ike ditto ever
Part 0: DI and MC
DI IS ALTERING THE DIRECTION YOU GO WHEN YOU ARE HIT
SDI IS HAX TELEPORTING BEFORE YOU START FLYING
MOMENTUM CANCELING IS WHEN YOU INTERUPT HITSTUN WITH AN AERIAL/AIR DODGE TO STOP YOURSELF FROM FLYING.
Part -I: Introductory
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227773
Will write my own dumbed down verison
[collapse=Moveset Analysis]
[/collapse]
Part I.V Advanced Technical Inputs and buffering
Ussi
You might be thinking, this is brawl! Tech skill doesn't exist! Well you're wrong, tech skill is needed, granted not at the degree melee did, but tech skill is needed. I'll talk about the few harder concepts of Ike that are really beneficial or can open new ways to play
Lets first talk about buffering, buffering is doing inputs early so that when the first frame of action is allowed, it is performed. There is a 10 frame buffer meaning you can input a command up to 10 frames before you get out of lag. this leads to out first and fore most important buffered input:
buffered turnaround jab. This is difficult in the sense that if you mess up, you do a ftilt or dash attack, meaning you get punished hard if you mess up. And you don't want to be slow with it either, that can be the difference between getting a hit and having your jab be powershielded
2nd on the list is SH retreating bair. This is basically the ultimate defense. It's impossible to punish Ike for this when bair hits the opponents shield, and powershielding doesn't help much still either as Ike is going away from the opponent making it too hard to punish.
the following now are less important but when you find your Ike game getting stale, pick these up to add a new dimension to your play.
When you get to the platform section Nysyarc worked very hard on, he will mention quick draw onto platforms. This is advanced in the sense you need to know the distance and timing of quick draw and the distance above the platform to get the ideal IASA landing. Its easy to play around with, hard to apply in a real match.
Last for now is a falling counter. Falling implies you are in the air. Now how this works is that, when the opponent is trying to force you to land into an attack, there is a point where you can counter and you fall into range by the time the counter frames start. Of course you need to know the spacing of the opponent's move in order to calculate perfectly when to start the counter. this works best on people charging an attack or MK's tornado trying to catch you from under yada yada
Part II: Offense
A. Getting Past Projectiles
Ussi *San and Niddo on Snake's nades*
Ike has a bit of trouble getting past projectiles in the learning stages due to the nature of his movement. But once you master it, you can breeze through projectiles pretty fluidly. The key to getting past projectiles is finding the pattern. Everyone has a different style of spamming but they is only so many ways you can use a projectile so find the pattern your opponent uses most. May take a stock to figure it out and such but its a learning experience.
The main way of dealing with projectiles is powershielding through them. Dash PS will keep the momentum of your dash so use it to your advantage if you're gonna slide into jab range. Learning the timing comes from experience and knowledge of how the projectile works. Projectiles have different properties so it'll take a while to learn them all.
Projectiles you should know how to PS: Falco's laser, Pit's arrow, Pikachu's jolt, Wolf's laser, TL's arrows and boomerang, Link's uncharged arrows and boomerang, ZSS's nB, ROB's Gyro and laser, (list subject to change due to me not remember all projectiles)
*insert guide to deal with Diddy's nanas* Little bit on nanas is smart diddys will see how you react to their banana game and counter your actions accordingly. So in order to go against that you have to play his game with bananas. Best way to learn this is to either play Diddy in some friendlies to get a hang of using bananas and apply it for Ike or turn on bananas as an item to mess around in friendlies. I can't really give specifics....
*Insert guide on Nades* This is probably the 2nd most annoying projectile to deal with. you can space fairs to not get his by shield nades.... i'm not good at explaining this..
Originally Posted by Nidtendofreak
B. When and How to Approach characters
Ussi
Fair – You always want to space fair to the maximum range and FF it. If you don’t you’ll find yourself being grabbed by the likes of Sheik and Pikachu when you can actually jab them before they reach you if you FF it. Now then, avoid throwing fair out so much, it’s a situational approach. It’s easily countered by dash shield of fast runners.. . Instead you’ll find yourself using…
Nair – this may be the shortest range attack Ike has but it has the smallest landing lag of any aerial Ike has. Spacing Nair will avoid being shield grabbed in fact, maybe people tend to shield grab nair even if you space it so punish their folly attempt. Characters that cannot shield grab nair (before a jab comes out) when timed right are: ZSS, Samus, and Yoshi. Zelda and Olimar are an iffy cause you have to be frame perfect with landing nair. DK, DDD, and Charizard have a very long shieldgrabs and will grab you out of nair (DK is possible to space but it hard to do consistently in a match).
Uair- this is an unorthodox approach but the main purpose is to shield stab by hitting a character’s head which means it only works on tall/big characters. Uair will hit pretty low behind Ike in the beginning and is impossible to see coming by its animation.
Dash Shield- a very popular universal approach. Like with Projectiles, you can time a powershield for attacks too. Jab is the best option OoS doing this.
SHAD- another universal approach. Great for avoiding attacks and getting behind the foe. Remember to buffer a jab or shield.
Dash Attack- a lol surprise attack
The next are what I think could be experimented but I guess left to others to decide
Reverse SHAD- basically turning around before doing a SHAD to avoid buffering an a turnaround and to stall the SHAD
RAR bair- not too successful of an approach, but mix it up with reserve SHAD to fool people XD also note you can do a jump canceled usmash while turning around
Stuff in Yellow are probably not viable but up as an idea
Also when to approach.. You want to avoid approach because you have too but instead approach cause you want to. Take the momentum into your hands not follow your opponents. Approaching isn't limited to only attacks, you can feint to trick you opponent. You always have to be unpredictable otherwise you'll be smacked out of your approach
C. Platform Game
Nysyarc
D. Edgeguarding
San
Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711 View Post
I remember typing about this a long time ago. Meh I'll still write somethin.
Interception
Ike has range, and a lot of it. Therefore, Ike does not need to go far from the stage in order to edgeguard. MK is immune to most of these. Against MK, one must rely on well timed bair and uair(facing away)
1. When you and the opponent are in the air, above the stage
Best move: full hop fair
Mixups: bair, uair
If the opponent is in the air above the stage, you can safely full hop + fair most characters in the game. Well spaced, all they can do is avoid it or air dodge. If they air dodge and not fast fall a well spaced fair, you can fast fall at the end, land, and punish the air dodge with jabs or a grab. Bair can be used as long as the second jump is retreating. Uair can be used as long as you're facing away from the opponent. You can full hop and fast fall all these aerials.
2. When you're on land, on the edge of the stage, opponent above.
Best moves: jab, ftilt, dash attack
Mixups: hop+eruption, retreating aerials
Ftilt is one of the best moves you can do near the ledge because of its amazing range, as well as its ability to be tilted in 3 directions, upwards, straight, and downwards. Not many characters have options to it other than to get away, especially when timed/spaced correctly. Jab is useful just for the amount of hurt the opponent will be in if he gets hit. If he gets hit, then you can time many more jabs until they eventually escape, possibly ending with the full jab combo.
I added dash attack for its ability to be used from a variety of distances away from the ledge. It's range covers half of BF, which is amazing. This is used to punish opponents who get too close to the ledge, within dash attack's range. This makes it effective to punish people who like to hop from the ledge. It also hits some of the cast while they hang on the ledge. If you hit with dash attack, it's not hard to follow up with downwards ftilt or a walk off aerial.
Double jump + eruption is a cool mixup if you think they're trying to get onstage as much as possible. It's safer in this situation because they can't punish as well if you miss. Jumping covers more area, so it's hard for opponents to go above you. Retreated aerials also work fairly well in this respect, since you have very small risk and a nice reward, where they usually get knocked offstage. If they shield near the edge, almost all of your moves will knock them away again.
3. Opponent is below stage-level
Best moves:
On land: quickly grab the ledge, walk off dair, spaced aerials. Dash attack(falco)
In the air(with double jump): any aerial to your discretion. Dair and fair usually work best.
Most of the time, if you feel you can grab the edge and get an advantage (the opponent has to go to the stage or he gets gimped), simply grabbing the edge is your best bet. if they land on stage, it's your chance to hit them with any aerial, if you can. If you grab the ledge, and quickly let go, you still have invinciblity for a short time, allowing you to drop and reverse aether if it seems appropriate.
Against falco, dash attack is a viable move to use here, because it messes up his double jump a lot if he jumps from underneath the stage.
If you have attack stick, walk off dair with cstick is not bad. If you time it well, yet miss, you can still aether to either the ledge or the stage. Walk off dair, you can easily get a spike, or the non sweet spot hit because of its long disjoint. If you walk off and fair, you have no choice but to grab the ledge, so if you miss, it's VERY dangerous.
E. Dealing with Ledge hangers
Foodies
[collapse=refined rough draft edited by Ussi]
1. Stand an appropriate distance away – Depending on what character you are facing, your distance will be closer or farther from the ledge, as each character has a different get-up attack range. For example, the space animals’ (Fox/Falco/Wolf) get-up attack range (under 100% at least) cover a lot more distance compared to a character such as Jigglypuff. This means you should also look at what % your opponent is at to position yourself correctly. Most people do not actually use the get-up attack too much, as it is easily punished on block, but be aware that they have the option. You also do not want to be too close to the ledge, since even if you shield an attack, you might be pushed off the stage yourself. [maybe should mention ledgedropped attacks too, though they usually have same range as a get-up attack]
1a. Look at %s – After 100%, all characters’ get-up attacks change, typically becoming slower and stronger. Also, the higher the percent someone is, the longer it takes for them to normal get-up and roll from the ledge. This means they have more invincibility frames, but also more vulnerability frames. [Jump speed is the same?]
2. Attacking – If your opponent stays too long on the ledge, their invincibility frames will run out, and you have the option of hitting them. Yay.
Fair – The best option and anti-planking move ever. Nothing but very long ledge attacks (And sliding aether -_-.. few more exceptions but meh) can ever dream to counter a fair on the ledge. Its best to time to hit with the tip of fair just when the invincibility frames should end, hard to time but it'll get people who don't let go of the ledge right away. It also destroys ledge rolls with its range and those trying to plank can't hit you back with any aerial.
Dtilt – Spiiike! The fastest move that will probably kill if it hits. Not the best option at all as the range it has doesn't protect you. It'll work on those who have a habit to drop the ledge to do an aerial of the ledge.
Ftilt (angled down) – This option is pretty beast, but risky. It puts the pressure of being unsafe on the ledge there with more range than dtilt and if they get on stage and shield the hit, it pushes them back. best option against those trying to ledge drop to an aerial.
Fsmash – Lolfsmash. The startup time alone allows your opponent to react and do something to avoid it; if you miss you are likely to get punished as well. You can charge it for mindgames, but it’s not likely to hit anyway. Those who are ledge attack happy will be at dismay when you stand a pixel out of their range and fsmash their lag. but that requires you to know their character better than them lolol.
Usmash (back end) –a nice option as the back end has less lag then ftilt. Careful on who you use it on though. Its the best option when you expect them to ledge jump to get away. But if they don't do that, at least usmash can still hit in more areas like those staying on the ledge.
3. Waiting – Even if your opponent’s invincibility frames run out, sometimes it is better do not hit them, as they can be timing their get-up just as you attempt to hit them. Character’s options are more limited on the ledge, so you can react to what they do.
Sort of related side note – Characters that have recovery moves that auto-sweetspot the edge (Marth comes to mind) will get landing lag if they land on the stage (without using an aerial) after sweetspotting the edge. You can get a free attack if they forget to cancel their lag. [People who are good would always cancel it though]
-Jump speed does also decrease with increased %.
-Ftilt has longer range than Dtilt, and can outspace some ledge getup attacks.
-Got a list of characters dash attack can hit while opponent is on the ledge. For those too lazy to memorize the list, the general rule is if the character's head is above the ledge, a dash attack can usually hit them. The dash attack must also be spaced properly or else it won't hit.
List Show
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
ZSS
ICs
MK
DDD
Olimar
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
G&W
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F. Following Up Your Moves
Foodies on jab canceling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foodies View Post
Intro: Jab is Ike’s best move, and he arguably has one of the best jabs in the game. If you hold down the A button, Ike will do the standard 3-jab combo if the opponent is in range. But that is boring; and no one can call themselves an Ike main if they do not utilize the awesome technique that is called JAB CANCELING.
Side note: If the opponent is not in range of the next hit when you hold down the A button, the combo resets back to the first jab, possibly leading into a combat walk.
What is it?: Jab canceling is what it sounds like, stopping the jab combo to do some other move. It’s best to cancel after jab 1 since people can DI out of jab2 cancels more easily.
How to do it:
Originally Posted by Nysyarc
Originally Posted by Mr. Doom
Jab – The most basic and probably the best option. Jab1>jab1 is a true combo if done properly (need to verify), and is basically free damage for you. Use it.
Grab – This is useful if your opponent tends to shield while getting jabbed, or if you jab a shield. Instead of continuing the combo, just cancel into a grab to beat the shield. Jab>grab usually does less damage overall than a full jab combo; however, a throw can set up for edgeguarding or juggling.
Bair - Canceling into Bair is one of Ike’s kill setups. After the jab, buffer a turnaround, short hop, and bair your opponent. The Bair should auto cancel if you do it right. Alternatively, if your opponent DI’s through you, you do not even need to turn around. It is recommended that you retreat the Bair so it would be harder for your opponent to punish if you happen to hit shield.
Uptilt – Canceling into Uptilt is another one of Ike’s kill setups. If the opponent is using a floaty character or tends to DI the jab combo up and towards you, uptilt is a viable option.
Dtilt – One of those extremely situational options that is awesome when it works, but shouldn’t really work. Use it when the opponent is offstage (obviously) to spike them. If they are onstage, the move can still kill, but you are most likely better off doing another move.
Dsmash –There was a discussion a long time ago about the viability of this move (including after a jab cancel), but the conclusion was basically that the move that does not exist. It comes out at the same frame as uptilt, but is weaker and has much more ending lag, which its slight increase in range does not compensate for. The only time I see this is useful is if your opponent decides to roll through you after shielding the first hit of Dsmash, so the second slash hits them...but that would just be idiotic. If your opponent likes rolling through you, a better option would just to turn around and fsmash.
Notes related to jab, but not necessarily jab canceling-
If the opponent likes to DI the jab through you, you can also just turn around and start jabbing again.
To add to this, some characters can't do anything about jab 2 > jab 1 due to how slow their aerials are and how ineffective their UpB gets them out of it.
jab to grab cannot be done out of a spaced jab because of how short Ike's grab range is.
san
[collapse="jab 2 missing is cool"]
san
[collapse=Spacing jab 2 is boss]
san with nair
Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711 View Post
I like it because it's our most useful spacing tool. 95% of it you know, but I hope I can provide that extra 5%. Massive tl;dr. I'll just color useful parts
It's range is just about as long as marth's fair, so not many characters can out-range it. This means that not many characters at all can directly challenge Ike's nair. Unlike Marth's fair, Ike's nair goes just about all the way around him, making Ike pretty safe against people trying to juggle you if you're fully retreating away.
If you face away from your opponent and nair, if you time it right by landing while the hitbox is behind you while still retreating, he can't punish it. Just whipping out nair while your opponent is chasing you is effective on most of the cast.
Kimchi told me how you can full hop + nair onto ledges, which is pretty useful. Also, on irregular surfaces, fast-falling an nair the correct way could give you a slide, which is pretty funny. Useful on brinstar, for example.
I made a post a while back about juggling with nair. The hitbox hitbox starts above you, which is a useful place to start, so you can follow opponents through their entire dodge animation. Nair can be used as a frame trap in order to get past opponent's air dodges. It works wonders on characters like snake and wario, mixing up between nair and jab. Since many characters can't directly challenge nair, they try to get around it, but they can't really air dodge, either. Ike can also fast fall the nair in order to jab or grab or shield opponents who are still in the air.
The best thing about nair is that it pays off to get a hit with it. On heavies, jab after nair is effective, but doesn't work quite so well on light characters with quick aerials. Back air after nair is pretty cool when it happens, but be wary of danger if you miss, so know when to retreat your bair or not. When I'm feeling daring, I dash + charge an upsmash and wait for the air dodge. Against characters who don't have quick and fast aerials to get away, might as well do another nair.
The attack I do most after nair is just uptilt, since I'm not usually in danger if I miss. On stages like battlefield, it could lead to you getting loads of damage from them landing on platforms. I may follow up with an aerial pivot grab, or upsmash.
The good thing about getting characters caught in nair, is that if they lose or just don't have their second jump, It's an easy pivot grab-->backthrow+dash attack.
In combintion with Ike's other moves such as jab nair provides us with plenty of mixups as well as a decent close quarters defense.
[collapse=throws]
Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711
Originally Posted by YagamiLight
regrab (for those who shield expecting a DA usually)
upsmash (for those who spotdodge...need to time this)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limit129 View Post
Ike Outline
Part 0: DI and MC
DI IS ALTERING THE DIRECTION YOU GO WHEN YOU ARE HIT
SDI IS HAX TELEPORTING BEFORE YOU START FLYING
MOMENTUM CANCELING IS WHEN YOU INTERUPT HITSTUN WITH AN AERIAL/AIR DODGE TO STOP YOURSELF FROM FLYING.
Part -I: Introductory
A. Lingo
Official thread:http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227773
Will write my own dumbed down verison
B. FAQs
C. THIS IS BRAWL YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW WHO IKE IS ELSEWHERE
D. A friendly hello from our Ike mains! (.. except from Bored)
Part I: Moveset Analysis Nysyarc[collapse=Moveset Analysis]
Ike's Moveset AnalysisWritten by NysyarcHere you will find basic information, general strategy and ratings for every attack in Ike's moveset. All credit goes to Kirk for frame data and the hitbox visuals. His thread, Ike Data Compilation, made much of this possible, and you can refer to it for more in-depth arithmetical data on Ike's moves.
Each move has been given a rating out of 5, represented by Ike heads. If a move was given 5 Ike heads, it is one of Ike's best moves, while if it was given only 1 Ike head, it is one of his worst moves. Here is a general guideline to follow when using the rating system to determine a move's viability in competition:
= An excellent move, it should be used very frequently.
= A good move that can be used often but not without caution.
= An average move that is situational but great at specific things.
= An inflexible move that should not be used often; very situational.
= There is always a better option than this move, never use it.
~~~~~ Basic Attacks ~~~~~Jab 1
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 3-4
Ends on Frame 17
Damage: 4%
This is one of the most central moves to Ike’s entire existence. The Jab 1, or the first hit of Ike’s neutral A combo on the ground, is a fast and effective way to lead into many other attacks and set up different situations. It can be canceled into many different moves (more information on Jab Canceling further down in the guide), or simply strung into the second and third hits of the Jab combo for a good amount of damage.
You should be using Jab very often during a match against any other character in the game. Use it out of shield to punish whiffed attacks, or use it while on the offense to lead into other moves. Use it to punish air-dodges, rolls, spot-dodges, and to interrupt slow attacks. Jab can also clank with many projectiles. All the uses of the Jab combo will be gone over in much greater detail in a later section of the guide.
Jab 2
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 3-4
Ends on Frame 20
Damage: 5%
The second hit of Ike’s grounded neutral A combo is slightly less useful than the first when you consider that it can’t be used first and that it cannot be interrupted as early. Still arguably the best and certainly the easiest follow-up to the first Jab, it can string into the third Jab, be canceled back into the first Jab, or strung into other attacks. Jab 2 has more horizontal range than Jab 1, and so it can be used for spacing while on the ground to some extent, since it can be ended early and is relatively safe.
Canceling Jab 2 into Jab 1 is not as fast as just Jab 1 into Jab 1, so you should be careful about when you choose to do it. The advantage of it is that Ike moves forward slightly when using Jab 2, so you can follow an opponent who is SDIing away from you. If you catch an opponent horizontally out in front of and above you with Jab 1, you can hold down A to Combat Walk, basically you will repeatedly use Jab 2 and miss automatically, looping back to Jab 1 to hit them again.
Jab 3
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 10-14
Ends on Frame 38
Damage: 7%
The third Jab is usually a guaranteed follow-up to the second, which makes Jab 1 to Jab 2 to Jab 3 a very safe and effective three-hit combo at any percent and against any character. Jab 3 has a lingering hitbox after Ike swings the sword, which has some use in punishing spot-dodges, but you should not use Jab 3 if you missed the opponent with Jab 1 and 2, because Jab 3 takes longer to end and so you will be more vulnerable.
Jab 3 is powerful enough that it is possible to KO with it at very high percents, or at least to get your opponents far enough off-stage to set up for an edge-guard. Following up your Jab 1 and Jab 2 with other moves like Up Tilt is a better idea for KOing at high percents, but ending with Jab 3 is good for racking damage early on.
Dash Attack
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 18-19
End on Frame 51
Damage: 7-8%
Ike’s Dash Attack (or DA) is a move that definitely has it’s uses, but should not be used excessively. DA does not do too much damage on it’s own, but can be used as a follow-up to different attacks (see the section on following up Ike’s throws). The hitbox closer to the tip of Ike’s sword deals 1% more damage than those closer to Ike, but it really doesn’t make too much difference.
DA has a lot of horizontal range, and since the beginning of the animation looks like Ike’s dash, it can sometimes fool opponents. You should not be using DA as an approach however, because it is easily blocked and punished. You can use DA to punish opponents who are rolling away from you, or performing a laggy action far across the stage (using a slow projectile like Pikmin throw for example).
It is also sometimes a good idea to hit opponent’s trying to recover with DA if the opportunity presents itself, because it will send them at a good angle off-stage and allow you to have a better shot at edge-guarding effectively. Take some time to get used to how far Ike moves forward when using DA and accustom yourself to where and how soon the hitbox comes out, so you will be able to better utilize it in different situations.
~~~~~ Tilt Attacks ~~~~~Forward Tilt
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]No angle:
Angled up:
Angled down:
[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 17-19
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 12-15%
Forward Tilt (or Ftilt) is a strong KO move at higher percents if you can make a read and space it well, but otherwise it does not have too many practical uses. It’s damage drops considerably if you hit your opponent near Ike’s waist, doing only 12% compared to 15% if you hit with the tip or middle section of the sword. Ftilt is too slow of a move and certainly takes too long to end for it to be a viable damage-racking move.
Some particular scenarios where Ftilt will work is if you can bait your opponent into air-dodging or poorly spacing an aerial while coming back to the stage. If you retreat a bit and then turn and Ftilt, it is fast enough that it can catch an opponent after such an action and even if it doesn’t KO them, put them in a bad position off stage. Mostly though, you should not be using Ftilt until your opponent is at 80-110% based on how heavy they are, since it’s only real purpose is as a KO move.
Up Tilt
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: This only roughly shows the entire area that Utilt affects. The first image shows Frame 1 of the hitbox (Frame 13 of the animation), but the hitbox lingers in the position of the third image for about 12 frames.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 13-29
Ends on Frame 50
Damage: 9-12%
Ike’s Up Tilt (or Utilt) is an excellent move all around in a lot of situations. The hitbox stays out for a long time, making the move fairly safe considering it also ends earlier than Ike’s other tilt attacks. It’s hitbox forms a protective square all around Ike, starting at his feet and rising over him to reach above platforms on stages like Battlefield. Utilt does 12% damage if you hit with the sword initially, but only 10% if you hit once the hitbox has reached it’s peak, and 9% if you hit with the hilt.
The lingering hitbox up high makes this move great for punishing things like rolls and spot dodges on a platform above you, and also air-dodges over your head. Utilt is powerful enough to KO relatively early if it’s fresh, usually just over 100% for the majority of the cast. On top of all that, it also comes out quite fast, with the earliest hitbox appearing after just 13 frames.
You can use Utilt as a follow up to moves like Neutral Aerial and Jab 1 at low percents to help rack damage, or keep it fresh to use as a KO move. Either way, Utilt is a great move that can be used fairly often in competitive matches. There are still times when you should not use Utilt, but it is harder to punish than many of your other ground attacks, so you don’t have to be as hesitant if you see an opportunity.
Down Tilt
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 16-18
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 14%
The Down Tilt (or Dtilt) is not a terrible move, but it is very situational and otherwise risky to use. It’s primary function is as a spike near the ledge, which of course means you won’t be getting too many spikes with it since your opponents can just grab the ledge to avoid it. Dtilt’s small hitbox and long ending time means it is not a good option on-stage, although if you manage to hit with the hilt of the sword it will send your opponent at a forward angle stronger than an Ftilt.
No matter what part of the hitbox connects, Dtilt will deal 14% damage fresh. It has a slight chance of tripping on-stage, but this is not practical due to it’s lack of speed and your inability to follow up the trip. The best way to spike with Dtilt is against opponents who have recoveries that do not automatically snap to the ledge (Luigi’s sideB recovery for example). It should not be used to punish planking, especially against characters like Meta Knight since it takes so long to start up and end.
~~~~~ Smash Attacks ~~~~~Forward Smash
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: As you can see, the area in the upper-right of these images close to the visible platform is not affected by the hitbox even though it appears to be within the sword's swing radius.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 31-34
Ends on Frame 80
Damage: 17-22%
Forward Smash (or Fsmash) is a move that should not be used often at all, but if used intelligently, can instantly change the momentum of a match. The hitbox ends quickly and covers an area directly above and in front of Ike, but not the diagonal out in front of him (see the hitbox visual). Fsmash will usually do 22% damage fresh and uncharged, but will deal only 17% if you hit with the tip at the end of the attack and 20% if you hit with the hilt.
Fsmash has the longest start-up time of any of Ike’s smashes, but it only takes 7 frames for the hitbox to emerge after holding it to charge, ironically the fastest of Ike’s smashes. Thus making a read and charging an Fsmash to punish something like an air-dodge, a poorly spaced attack or a grounded dodge is effective since you can easily time it’s release. You should not use Fsmash if you are not 100% sure of your intentions though, never just ‘throw it out’ in hopes that it will connect.
It is possible to KO with a charged Fsmash as early as 40% near the edge of many stages and against certain characters. Most often you should try to land a slightly charged Fsmash in the 60-80% range near the ledge to KO your opponent. If it does not work once, do not try it again that stock, and possibly even that match. You have much faster and more reliable KO moves for opponents that are over 80% damage, so do not take unnecessary risks by using an Fsmash.
Up Smash
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: The second and fourth images show the frames during which the hitbox can poke under a shield on a platform. If you compare the height of the platforms in the images to the hitbox, you will see that this is the case, and in-game occurrences have proven it.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 25-31
Ends on Frame 67
Damage: 17-19%
Ike’s Up Smash (or Usmash) is by far the best of his smash attacks and arguably one of his best KO moves. Usmash comes out slower than a tilt, but relatively quick considering it’s strength and damage output. The initial hitbox of Usmash will do 17% damage, while the last two frames that linger on the back end of the swing deal 19%. Usmash ends deceptively early and you can slide while using it, so it is your safest all-purpose smash attack.
Usmash can be used at lower percents to inflict damage if an opportunity presents itself, but it is best kept fresh to KO at upwards of 90% on most characters. Retreating an Usmash by dashing backwards and then inputting the Usmash is very safe and effective if you can bait an approach. Usmash is ideal for punishing rolls since it’s hitbox lingers after the backswing. It is also great for punishing baited air-dodges due to it’s large sweeping range and the fact that you can charge it.
You can use an Usmash to follow up things like Jabs or an Nair at low percents if you’ve read your opponent. For example, if they like to spot-dodge or roll out of your flubbed Jab Cancels, try Jabbing just once and then beginning to charge an Usmash. If they spot-dodge or roll, it will be easy to punish and the reward is high. If you whiff an Usmash, and your opponent is advancing to punish you, be ready to put a shield on or Jab them at the earliest possible moment, because either of those will often catch them off guard.
Usmash is also excellent for sharking platforms. It’s hitboxes are mapped to Ike’s sword, which skips over wide areas and ends up hitting directly at the level of a Battlefield platform on two separate frames of the attack (see the hitbox visual). This means that it can perfectly poke underneath an opponent’s semi-worn shield as long as they are not directly above you. If an opponent is holding their shield on above you and to either side a bit, go for the Usmash shield poke.
Down Smash
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: The smaller hitbox seen in the third image lingers for 9 frames and only deals 8% damage in contrast to the larger one (seen in the second image) which lasts for 4 frames and deals 16% damage.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 13-16 and 32-44
Ends on Frame 70
Damage: 13% and 8-16%
Down Smash (or Dsmash) would be an excellent move if the first hit could string into the second (doing a total of 29% damage fresh), but it can’t. So it’s a pretty terrible move. In fact it’s not so much that Dsmash is an awful move, but rather that Ike has a different move that is better suited for every situation. The first hit always does 13% damage fresh and the back hit will initially do 16%, but then degrade all the way to 8% during the smaller, lingering part of the hitbox (see the hitbox visual).
Dsmash comes out on frame 13, pretty fast. But so does Utilt. Dsmash does 16% damage on the back hit. So does a full Jab combo. Dsmash covers in front of and behind Ike. So does Usmash, except Usmash gets behind Ike faster, covers above him too, deals more damage, KOs better, and ends earlier. Believe it or not, Dsmash has less base knockback (KO power) than Ike’s Neutral Aerial. All of this, along with the fact that Dsmash is very punishable if whiffed, means you should never be using it in a competitive match. There’s just no point.
~~~~~ Aerial Attacks ~~~~~Neutral Aerial
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: Like Utilt, these images do not show every frame of the hitbox; some frames are skipped between images. The first image shows the initial position of the hitbox, and the last image shows it's final position.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 15-32
Ends on Frame 76 (Air) and 13 (Landing)
Damage: 9%
Ike’s Neutral Aerial (or Nair) is likely one of the best aerial attacks in the game. It combines a long hitbox, good damage output, combo-ability, range, and speed in a way that very few other aerial attacks, even attacks in general, can. Nair will deal 9% damage fresh no matter what part of the hitbox connects, and although it is difficult to auto-cancel upon landing, it can be interrupted after just 13 frames. One problem is how long it lasts in the air, so you shouldn’t be using it off-stage.
On-stage however, Nair has a myriad uses, limited only by your imagination. It can be used as a very safe approach on many characters as long as it is spaced well, which means not jumping straight into your opponent when you use it. There is no safer way for Ike to retreat than an Nair thrown out while jumping backwards or even while facing away from your opponent, since Nair’s hitbox ends up behind Ike. Using a full-hop and Nair is a great way to safely board a Battlefield-height platform from below.
If you connect with Nair at low percents, you can string the hit into a Jab 1 and thence to other moves, or you can string it into an Utilt or a Back Aerial in certain situations. Stringing it into a Jab will usually guarantee the most total damage you’ll get out of the pseudo combo, but on a stage like Battlefield you can use an Utilt after Nair to get them above the platforms and then shark them for extra damage.
You should be using Nair very often at low and middling percents, but then easing off and using better KO moves as you rack damage. There’s nothing wrong with using Nair at high percents, it’s still very safe, but it will rarely get you the KO. Using the c-stick to Nair (see the Control Schemes section in the guide below) is very helpful because it allows you to continue to move left or right while airborne, you don’t have to stop motion and tap A to perform the Nair.
Nair is an excellent frame trap for punishing air-dodges. If you use it to challenge someone returning to the stage, most characters cannot out-range it, so they will air-dodge. Because of Nair’s long hitbox, it can catch most characters after their air-dodge if you time it and space it right. Using your Down Throw at low percents and following up with an Nair will often work as well for the same reason: many players will air-dodge after the Down Throw (see the section on Following-Up Throws).
On top of all this, Nair is also one of Ike’s best moves for platform sharking. The initial 6 frames of the hitbox appear above a platform if you short-hop and Nair immediately, and you can either then fast-fall and reset yourself if you hit them, or allow yourself to fall normally so that the back end of Nair’s hitbox rises above the platform for several more frames. Short-hopping and fast-falling your Nairs is key to being as quick as possible with them, since Nair takes a long time to end in the air but ends very quickly after landing.
Forward Aerial
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 18-21
Ends on Frame 60 (Air) and 22 (Landing)
Damage: 13%
The Forward Aerial (or Fair) is a very versatile move that has plenty of good uses. It is not the safest aerial to use in every situation, but you will find yourself using often. Fair deals 13% fresh at all points of the hitbox and does not last an undue amount of time in the air. The auto-cancel window is decent, and allows you to auto-cancel an Fair if you use it immediately on a full-hop jump (without double-jumping or fast-falling). The landing lag itself isn’t too bad either, especially considering Fair’s enormous range.
The fact is, if you space Fair properly, the only aerial moves in the game that can really challenge it are Samus, Link and Toon Link’s Zair (literally pressing Z in the air). You should never jump straight into your opponent when using Fair, jumping forward slightly is fine, as long as you retreat back afterwards if you did not successfully hit your opponent. Fair is a good approach in this sense because it cannot be directly challenged by a lot of characters. Although Fair will usually stale due to it’s frequent use as a spacing move, it can also KO quite well if it’s kept fresh.
One technique for utilizing Fair’s range in a safe and effective way without the need of any custom controls, is to press whatever button you have jump set to (I use ‘X’ myself) and at the exact same moment, hold the control stick in the direction you are facing and press A. Now, this will execute a full-hop Fair that will auto-cancel if you do not fast-fall and land on even ground, but because you have the control stick still jammed forward, Ike will jump towards the opponent. You can easily control the direction of his jump while still controlling the direction of the Fair though.
If you immediately mash the control stick back in the opposite direction after inputting the jump and A buttons, Ike will jump backwards and Fair forwards at the same time; on top of that, it will still auto-cancel. Like I said, no custom control schemes are necessary to do this, and it allows you full control of Ike throughout the jump since the Fair is inputted before you are actually in the air (which is called buffering). Now obviously this method means Fair’s hitbox will be up fairly high, so it works best on opponents approaching from the air or on platforms. Otherwise, you should always be short-hopping and fast-falling when you Fair.
Back Aerial
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 7-9
Ends on Frame 55 (Air) and 22 (Landing)
Damage: 14%
Back Aerial (or Bair) is another exceptional aerial attack that has many different practical uses. The hitbox emerges very quickly, Ike’s second fastest attack other than Jab 1, and will always deal 14% damage when it’s fresh. It has as much landing lag as Fair, but it can be auto-canceled if you short-hop and use Bair immediately, not fast-falling afterwards. The easiest way to do this is to tap up on the control stick and back on the c-stick immediately afterwards (very close to the exact same time).
One of the most effective and commonly used functions of Bair is as an option Out of Shield (OoS). If you shield an opponent’s attack, or particularly if you power-shield their attack and you have your back to them, whipping out a Bair to punish is almost always a safe and effective option. You have the choice then to either move back towards them through the air and follow-up with Jabs after Bair auto-cancels (this only works at low percents), or to move away from them if you are unsure whether the Bair will connect. Retreating and auto-canceling your Bairs by short-hopping is as safe or safer than retreating with Nair.
On top of being able to auto-cancel Bair by short-hopping it on even ground, you can also do a full-hop and Bair immediately to auto-cancel it landing on a platform above you. This works on Battlefield, Norfair, Frigate Orpheon (only the second transformation of the stage), Halberd, the side platforms of Lylat Cruise, and the Pokemon Stadiums. This is useful if your opponent is at a low percent on a platform; you can full-hop up and Bair them and then follow-up immediately when it auto-cancels.
Due to the speed that Bair comes out and it’s very good horizontal range, it can be used to challenge the aerials of many other characters. If you have your back to your opponent, they will often be wary of Bair, and rightly so. Jumping up with your back to your opponent while they are returning to the stage will often bait an air-dodge, which you can then punish by waiting until it ends and whipping out Bair.
Bair’s hitbox reaches above Battlefield-height platforms if you short-hop auto-cancel it, making it great for punishing opponent’s who are rolling or spot-dodging on the platforms. It will obviously send them horizontally, which can be favorable to the vertical trajectory that many of Ike’s other sharking moves feature. Hitting your opponent off-stage at a nice angle can set up for an edge-guard against many characters. And on that note, Bair is also great for edge-guarding because it will out-prioritize many recoveries such as DK’s Kopter Kong and even another Ike’s Aether.
On top of all these benefits, Bair is a wonderful tool that can be used at low percents to string into other moves and rack damage (it does a solid amount of damage itself), or it can be saved as a KO move at higher percents. If it’s kept fresh, a Bair can KO most opponents within the 90-110% range, and even stale it remains a reliable KO move or at least a nice way to get your opponent off-stage. Like Nair, the uses you can find for Bair are really only limited by your imagination.
Up Aerial
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: Again, like Utilt and Nair, there are some frames of the hitbox that are skipped in these images. As always, the first image shows the initial hitbox position, and the last image shows it's final position.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 15-31
Ends on Frame 58 (Air) and 19 (Landing)
Damage: 14%
Ike’s Up Aerial (or Uair) has a lot of very good uses, but is not as consistently safe to use as some of his other aerials. Nevertheless it is an excellent move, dealing a solid 14% damage fresh and with a lingering hitbox that covers a wide area above Ike for a good amount of time. It can be interrupted in the air slightly earlier than Fair, and it has the second lowest landing lag time of Ike’s aerials, behind only Nair. As if all that wasn’t good enough, it also has significant KO power.
The first and probably best of Uair’s many uses is for sharking platforms both near and far from the ground. It’s swirling hitbox easily covers an entire platform and because it lasts for 16 frames, it can punish rolls or spot-dodges very effectively. In general it is a good move to use as an opponent is falling from up high, platforms or not. It comes out relatively quick and will take priority over a lot of other character’s aerials.
The best way to use Uair on an opponent who is falling towards you is to jump up and meet them a good distance above the ground, but with your back to them. Uair’s hitbox spends most of it’s time behind Ike (see the hitbox visual), and so if you fall with your opponent just a bit underneath and in front of them, your Uair will be spaced well enough to out-range many aerials and will frame trap your opponent if they air-dodge.
Uair can be used while you are falling back to the stage as well. Many people will not expect this, and as long as you space it well horizontally, have your back to your opponent and fast-fall, you should be safe. It can even get you a surprise KO since most people will instinctively DI up, expecting an attack like Fair while you are dropping. Uair may not have much less landing lag than Fair and Bair, but even 3 frames can be enough to throw some people off, so be ready to Jab or defend at the earliest possible moment after landing.
Down Aerial
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: The hitbox seen in the first image (which lasts for 2 frames) deals 16% damage and will spike the opponent. The hitbox from the second image lingers for 12 frames, deals 12% damage and hits opponents upward.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 16-30
Ends on Frame 55 (Air) and 29 (Landing)
Damage: 12-16%
Down Aerial (or Dair) is a move that has only one practical purpose, but it can achieve that purpose in many different ways. That purpose is to spike your opponents, and Dair is Ike’s best move spiking move. It will deal 16% damage for the first two frames of the attack that spike, and then the lingering hitbox that sends opponents upward will do only 12% (see the hitbox visual). Like Bair, it does not take very long to end in the air, but it has horrendous landing lag on-stage.
Now to quickly go over other, mostly inviable uses for Dair. If you full-hop and immediately input a Dair at the same time, the attack will end before Ike hits the ground again, meaning you can double-jump and use another attack. The same goes for Bair of course. If you manage to full-hop Dair someone beneath you at around 30%, double-jumping and using Bair as soon as it’s possible is a true combo. Even DI cannot save them since you can follow them with your jump and Bair has a large hitbox. However, the risk of trying this outweighs the small benefit due to Dair’s on-stage landing lag and the fact that your opponent has to be directly beneath you for it to work.
Moving on, there are several practical ways to spike with Dair. One is to jump high off-stage to meet a returning opponent, wait for them to air-dodge and then use the tilt stick (see the Control Schemes section in the guide below) to perform your Dair as punishment. If you don’t think they will attempt to air-dodge, you can simply jump up off-stage and Dair without need of the tilt stick for safety; don’t expect that method to work on too many good players though.
You can also perform a walk-off Dair in two different ways. If you use the smash stick, hold your control stick towards the ledge and down at an angle, so Ike falls off the stage, then quickly rotate your control stick so it is facing straight down and tap down on the c-stick at the same time. If you performed the Dair immediately after walking off the stage, you should easily be able to double-jump and Aether back to the ledge. With the tilt stick it is much easier: just walk off the ledge and hit the c-stick down; you don’t have to worry about fast-falling.
The final way to use Dair that is effective for edge-guarding some recoveries below the stage, is to drop off and double-jump from the ledge and Dair. Literally just grab the ledge when your opponent is off-stage, and when the timing is right, tap the control stick back to drop off and then double-jump Dair in whatever way you see fit (jump button + A and down or control stick up + c-stick down). This works well against the vertical recoveries of many characters, as well as the multiple jumps of characters that can float/fly (except Meta Knight, be very careful about when you choose to do this against him).
~~~~~ Special Attacks ~~~~~Eruption
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: The hitbox seen in the first image appears for the initial 3 frames of any Eruption that is not fully charged. The tiny hitbox near the bottom of the second image lingers for 5 frames after the first hitbox disappears, but only for an uncharged or partially charged Eruption. The last image is the hitbox of a fully charged Eruption, which remains unchanged for all 20 frames of the attack.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 30-37 (Uncharged) and 239-258 (Fully Charged)
Ends on Frame 58 (Uncharged) and 288 (Fully Charged)
Damage: 9% (Uncharged) and 26-37% (Fully Charged)
Eruption is an attack that is similar to Dtilt in it’s uses (and lack of uses). It will deal 9% damage and has a fairly large hitbox uncharged. The hitbox does not change until it is fully charged, but the damage and knockback increases with every ‘whoosh’ sound you hear (there will be eight of them in total). Fully charged, the top of the explosion will deal the least damage at 26%, the middle will do 28%, and the largest hitbox at the bottom of the fire will do a whopping 37% damage; it should be noted that Ike will take 10% damage from a fully charged Eruption, but no damage from all earlier charge levels.
The primary use for Eruption is in edge-guarding. It has Super Armor frames (frames during which you cannot be affected by knockback) for 5 frames prior to the hitbox coming out, so if you time it correctly you can nullify any attack and immediately retaliate with the Eruption itself. Eruption is a terrible move to use if your opponent is waiting at a distance or has a projectile though, for pretty obvious reasons. In fact there is always a better option than using Eruption against a grounded opponent, it’s damage output uncharged is very low and charging it is risky.
It works best against recoveries that cannot snap to the ledge, similar to Dtilt. Unlike Dtilt, it can cover a large area vertically, which also makes it viable if you think your opponent will attack you from above upon returning to the stage, or hit you with their recovery move. Learning to time the Super Armor frames after charging is key to success at this.
If you manage to get a shield break on someone, charge your Eruption near them until you hear the seventh ‘whoosh’ sound (Ike will begin to flash rapidly) and then immediately release. This is referred to as a Flashing Eruption, and will cause more knockback than a fully charged Eruption. Obviously this, along with the fact that fully charging it will damage Ike by 10%, makes it much better to use on a shield break.
Quick Draw
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 19-29 (Uncharged, No Contact)
Ends on Frame 42 (Uncharged, No Contact) and 77-87 (Uncharged, After Contact)
Damage: 9% (Uncharged) and 16% (Fully Charged)
Quick Draw (or QD) is almost completely useless as an attacking move; however, it is a useful tool for some other purposes if applied properly. It can be charged indefinitely and cannot be canceled once charging begins (you have to release the attack). Uncharged, it will travel a little further than the length of a Battlefield platform and deal 9% damage on contact. Fully charged, it will traverse almost all of Battlefield itself and do 16% if it hits. It is possible to KO with QD at percents that are not totally unreasonable, but it is not a reliable KO move by any means.
Because of the terrible ending lag after hitting someone, hitting a shield, or getting interrupted by a spot-dodge, it is heavily advised to not use QD as an attack. In rare occasions in can be used as a mix-up for a tech-chase, due to it’s ability to charge forever and release quickly, but in most cases there is a safer and more rewarding option.
QD can, however, be used to quickly move across the stage in several different fashions. If you just knocked an opponent off-stage but are not close to the ledge yourself, immediately loosing a QD to close the gap and prepare for an edge-guard can really help. Doing a full-hop and then an uncharged QD to land on a distant platform (Battlefield height) is great for covering distance and gaining height at the same time.
Landing on a platform from a QD can quickly lead into other attacks, because QD does not have very much landing lag as long as you do not fall for a long time before hitting the ground (try to skim the surface of the platform as close as you can while in the QD animation). Landing so that you slide to the opposite edge of the platform helps further eliminate landing lag, allowing you to then immediately use an Utilt, Jab, walk-off aerial attack like Fair or Nair, or instantly pratfall and Bair to attack an opponent below the platform. The key is to never hit your opponent or their shield with the QD itself.
Aether
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
Note: There are many frames of the hitbox skipped in between these images; this is only to show the general area covered. The first image shows the initial hitbox that lasts only 1 frame. The second last image shows the hitbox that acts as a weak spike, and will linger until Ike touches the ground or grabs a ledge. The last image shows the hitbox that only appears if Ike lands on the ground, not if he grabs a ledge; this hitbox sends opponents upward at an angle.[/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 18-77
Ends on Frame 110 (Grounded)
Damage: ?
Aether, aside from being Ike’s primary recovery move, is also useful as an offensive move in some sparse situations. The hitbox breaks for a frame or two occasionally but lasts for a total duration of 59 frames from the first hit to the last. It has pretty bad landing lag, which can be avoided by grabbing a ledge while coming down. It can deal anywhere from 1% to over 20% damage depending on how long your opponent is caught in it and what sections of the hitbox affect them (see the hitbox visual). Another thing to note is that Aether provides Super Armor frames from frame 18-38 of the animation.
One interesting thing about Aether is that if you land with it on a slope of the stage, you will slide down the slope, the total slide distance varying greatly from stage to stage. This obviously means that on some stages, you can reduce the risk factor of landing on-stage with Aether by sliding back or retreating after landing. Some stages this works well on are the beach sections of Delfino Plaza, the second transformation of Frigate Orpheon, the first part of Halberd, some sections of Castle Siege, the small slope near the bow of the Rainbow Cruise ship, and the small slopes on Brinstar.
Aether can also be used in platform sharking to some extent. It can be difficult to pressure platforms that are out of short-hop and ground attack range, but Aether, if used sparingly and carefully, can solve this issue. Use Aether from the ground or after a short-hop to attack platforms like the top one on Battlefield, some of the higher ones on Delfino Plaza, and the middle Brinstar platform. It will easily punish spot-dodges or rolls and deal a good amount of damage. If you think your opponent may shield it, do the Aether near the edge of the platform so you can then move back a bit and land down on the stage, making it harder to punish.
Other uses for Aether are occasional edge-guarding and mild planking. Because of it’s enormous vertical reach, you can catch an opponent who is recovering high above the ledge with an Aether and then grab the ledge yourself on the way down so that you are safe even if you missed. While Ike is coming down with Aether, the hitbox will spike (see the hitbox visual), making it a great edge-guard move for characters who lack vertical recovery, like DK, Bowser and Luigi after he has used his second jump. Aether will only spike successfully if you grab the ledge however; the hitbox for landing on the stage will pop your opponent up into the air.
As for planking, it can be dangerous on many stages, but stages that have a slope under the ledge are relatively safe for this. Basically, on a stage like Battlefield or Smashville, drop off the ledge and move in towards the stage a bit, using Aether from under the stage but not past where the slope ends. On his way up, Ike will slide back out to where the ledge is and grab it again on his way down. This means you can have the initial hitboxes for Aether further in on the stage, and then retreat back afterwards. Along with dealing some extra damage to opponent’s who wander too close to the ledge, this can be used to force opponents to retreat, giving you room to get up after recovering. Keep in mind though that after grabbing the ledge 5 times consecutively with Aether, you will just fall past the ledge for an SD.
Counter
[collapse=Hitbox Visual]
[/collapse]
Rating:
Effect on Frames 11-33
Ends on Frame 60
Damage: ?
Ike’s Counter is a very risky move to employ, and there is a better option for many of it’s conceivable uses. It will counter the opponent’s attack anywhere between frames 11 and 33, although frame 11 does not come fast enough for you to counter anything on reaction unless it is a very slow attack. It has pretty bad ending lag, and will deal 10% damage or more depending on how strong the countered attack was.
Since you cannot use this move on reaction for the vast majority of opponent’s attacks, you have to make hard reads if you want to connect with it, and then hope your opponent doesn’t read you back and punish. It is usually not worth it to use Counter against moves dealing moderate or weak damage (20% or less), since many of Ike’s other moves will do more damage and are safer. Counter can be used against some recoveries such as another Ike's, DK's, etc.
Obviously if a Ganondorf or Captain Falcon uses their punch, Counter away and watch them get knocked flying stronger than they would have done to you. Likewise if an opponent is charging a smash attack unwarily. Otherwise though, most uses of Counter are risky, situational, inconsistent or just not nearly as good as other options that Ike has available to him.
~~~~~ Throws ~~~~~Pummel
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frame 5
Ends on Frame 25
Damage: 3%
Ike’s pummel is a great way to tack on some extra damage every time you grab your opponent. It will deal 3% damage fresh, and can safely be done a few times each grab after your opponent reaches 30-40%. Using your pummel will also refresh your other moves. Try to learn the timing of tapping A to pummel quickly, as opposed to just mashing the button; try it out in practice mode to see what rhythm allows Ike to pummel the fastest.
Forward Throw
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 5-6
Ends on Frame 24
Damage: 6%
Forward Throw (or Fthrow) has some uses at low and high percents, and is all-around very similar to Back Throw. This is Ike’s fastest throw to start and end, which is useful to know for doubles matches. It will do 6% damage fresh and could not possibly KO your opponent unless they were at ~800% and had a bad recovery. You can Fthrow almost all characters against a wall and re-grab them instantly until just over 100% damage.
Thankfully, Ike has other options to KO, and Fthrow’s primary uses are to string attacks at low percents and to get your opponent off-stage at high percents. Fthrow has no guaranteed follow-ups, but you can try following it up with another grab, an Nair or Usmash if you think they will spot-dodge, and a DA at middling to high percents. Fthrow is a good move in it's own right, but realistically you’ll want to use Back Throw more often. Fthrow once in awhile to deal an extra 6% if Back Throw gets stale.
Back Throw
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frame 20
Ends on Frame 33
Damage: 6%
Back Throw (or Bthrow) is Ike’s best throw and definitely the throw you should be using most often during matches. There are only 13 frames between when you throw your opponent and when you are able to perform an action, and the implications of this are outlined fully in the section Following up Throws later in the guide. Bthrow will deal 6% damage when it is fresh and also cannot be used to KO, even though it is somewhat stronger than Fthrow.
Bthrow can do everything Fthrow can, but better. At low percents you can reach your opponent quicker to re-grab if they shield or punish with Jabs/Nair if they spot-dodge. DA is a great follow-up to Bthrow and is even guaranteed on some characters at certain percents (more on that later in the guide as well). Bthrow followed up with a DA or even just Bthrow by itself near the ledge are excellent ways to get your opponent off-stage and prepare for an edge-guard.
Up Throw
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frame 26
Ends on Frame 55
Damage: 6%
Ike’s Up Throw (or Uthrow) is a very useless throw when compared with his others. It’s only viable use is to toss your opponents onto a platform above you (to set up for sharking) once Down Throw becomes too strong for that purpose. The problem with Uthrow is that it takes so long to end, following it up is very difficult. Really you shouldn’t be using this throw at all considering your other options.
Down Throw
[collapse=Hitbox Visual][/collapse]
Rating:
Hits on Frames 35-39
Ends on Frame 58
Damage: 6%
Down Throw (or Dthrow) is a good throw that has definite uses at low percents. You should not use Dthrow in a doubles match with another opponent nearby, due to how long it takes the hitbox to come out and just how long it takes in general. Like all of Ike’s other throws, Dthrow also deals 6% damage, but it can be used to KO as early as 160% if it’s fresh on a stage with a low ceiling. This does not make it a reliable KO move at all, more a last-ditch one if you can’t hit with anything else.
Dthrow can be used at low percents to pop opponents up onto platforms above you so that you can then shark them with other attacks. Even without platforms, you can follow up Dthrow with an Nair, Uair or Usmash at low percents, particularly if your opponent air-dodges and you manage to read it. Be aware that Dthrow can be influenced by DI very easily, even at low percents, so do not try anything like Aether after it, because it is not at all guaranteed and will likely get you punished.
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Part I.V Advanced Technical Inputs and buffering
Ussi
You might be thinking, this is brawl! Tech skill doesn't exist! Well you're wrong, tech skill is needed, granted not at the degree melee did, but tech skill is needed. I'll talk about the few harder concepts of Ike that are really beneficial or can open new ways to play
Lets first talk about buffering, buffering is doing inputs early so that when the first frame of action is allowed, it is performed. There is a 10 frame buffer meaning you can input a command up to 10 frames before you get out of lag. this leads to out first and fore most important buffered input:
buffered turnaround jab. This is difficult in the sense that if you mess up, you do a ftilt or dash attack, meaning you get punished hard if you mess up. And you don't want to be slow with it either, that can be the difference between getting a hit and having your jab be powershielded
2nd on the list is SH retreating bair. This is basically the ultimate defense. It's impossible to punish Ike for this when bair hits the opponents shield, and powershielding doesn't help much still either as Ike is going away from the opponent making it too hard to punish.
the following now are less important but when you find your Ike game getting stale, pick these up to add a new dimension to your play.
When you get to the platform section Nysyarc worked very hard on, he will mention quick draw onto platforms. This is advanced in the sense you need to know the distance and timing of quick draw and the distance above the platform to get the ideal IASA landing. Its easy to play around with, hard to apply in a real match.
Last for now is a falling counter. Falling implies you are in the air. Now how this works is that, when the opponent is trying to force you to land into an attack, there is a point where you can counter and you fall into range by the time the counter frames start. Of course you need to know the spacing of the opponent's move in order to calculate perfectly when to start the counter. this works best on people charging an attack or MK's tornado trying to catch you from under yada yada
Part II: Offense
A. Getting Past Projectiles
Ussi *San and Niddo on Snake's nades*
Ike has a bit of trouble getting past projectiles in the learning stages due to the nature of his movement. But once you master it, you can breeze through projectiles pretty fluidly. The key to getting past projectiles is finding the pattern. Everyone has a different style of spamming but they is only so many ways you can use a projectile so find the pattern your opponent uses most. May take a stock to figure it out and such but its a learning experience.
The main way of dealing with projectiles is powershielding through them. Dash PS will keep the momentum of your dash so use it to your advantage if you're gonna slide into jab range. Learning the timing comes from experience and knowledge of how the projectile works. Projectiles have different properties so it'll take a while to learn them all.
Projectiles you should know how to PS: Falco's laser, Pit's arrow, Pikachu's jolt, Wolf's laser, TL's arrows and boomerang, Link's uncharged arrows and boomerang, ZSS's nB, ROB's Gyro and laser, (list subject to change due to me not remember all projectiles)
*insert guide to deal with Diddy's nanas* Little bit on nanas is smart diddys will see how you react to their banana game and counter your actions accordingly. So in order to go against that you have to play his game with bananas. Best way to learn this is to either play Diddy in some friendlies to get a hang of using bananas and apply it for Ike or turn on bananas as an item to mess around in friendlies. I can't really give specifics....
*Insert guide on Nades* This is probably the 2nd most annoying projectile to deal with. you can space fairs to not get his by shield nades.... i'm not good at explaining this..
Originally Posted by Nidtendofreak
For Snake's nade: get as good as the Snake at knowing how long the grenades have been out. I find it goes like this: One-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-onethousand, four-onethousanBOOM. You have to figure out your own timing though, and be able to keep track of two nades + Snake himself.
Originally Posted by san3711Diddy Kong is a bit harder, and generally a bit more dependent on the stage.
Translation: Snake's nade lasts for 4 seconds. I find it easiest to instathrow towards snake just to give him some problems. Ike can insta throw from the ground. (Jump +throw instantly). Pressuring snake's shield and spacing with long range and quick intercepts are good ideas (spacing yourself so you don't hit any nades)
B. When and How to Approach characters
Ussi
Fair – You always want to space fair to the maximum range and FF it. If you don’t you’ll find yourself being grabbed by the likes of Sheik and Pikachu when you can actually jab them before they reach you if you FF it. Now then, avoid throwing fair out so much, it’s a situational approach. It’s easily countered by dash shield of fast runners.. . Instead you’ll find yourself using…
Nair – this may be the shortest range attack Ike has but it has the smallest landing lag of any aerial Ike has. Spacing Nair will avoid being shield grabbed in fact, maybe people tend to shield grab nair even if you space it so punish their folly attempt. Characters that cannot shield grab nair (before a jab comes out) when timed right are: ZSS, Samus, and Yoshi. Zelda and Olimar are an iffy cause you have to be frame perfect with landing nair. DK, DDD, and Charizard have a very long shieldgrabs and will grab you out of nair (DK is possible to space but it hard to do consistently in a match).
Uair- this is an unorthodox approach but the main purpose is to shield stab by hitting a character’s head which means it only works on tall/big characters. Uair will hit pretty low behind Ike in the beginning and is impossible to see coming by its animation.
Dash Shield- a very popular universal approach. Like with Projectiles, you can time a powershield for attacks too. Jab is the best option OoS doing this.
SHAD- another universal approach. Great for avoiding attacks and getting behind the foe. Remember to buffer a jab or shield.
Dash Attack- a lol surprise attack
The next are what I think could be experimented but I guess left to others to decide
Reverse SHAD- basically turning around before doing a SHAD to avoid buffering an a turnaround and to stall the SHAD
RAR bair- not too successful of an approach, but mix it up with reserve SHAD to fool people XD also note you can do a jump canceled usmash while turning around
Stuff in Yellow are probably not viable but up as an idea
Also when to approach.. You want to avoid approach because you have too but instead approach cause you want to. Take the momentum into your hands not follow your opponents. Approaching isn't limited to only attacks, you can feint to trick you opponent. You always have to be unpredictable otherwise you'll be smacked out of your approach
C. Platform Game
Nysyarc
Platforms And You<3 <3 <3A Sub-Guide to Ike’s Platform GameWritten by Nysyarc
Ike is a character that relies heavily on effective use of stage gimmicks for his success. Stages like Final Destination are not to his liking because he has nothing to use to his advantage besides bare, flat terrain. One aspect of stages that Ike is particularly good at making use of is platforms.
There are many different types of platforms in the game, and they can easily be categorized by their height in relation to the ground level of the stage. Ike has many ways to abuse platforms, both from underneath them and on top of them. Quick Draw, although not suggested to be used as an attack, can be used as a tool to move quickly and set-up for other attacks involving platforms.
Here is an outline of the different sections that will be covered in this part of the Ike Guide:
- Types of Platforms
- Platform Sharking
- Pratfalling and Walk-Offs
- Using Quick Draw
I suggest that you read the sections in order, since the first section goes over the definitions of different platform types I’ll be using for the rest of the guide. Additionally, the last section assumes that you already understand elements discussed in the second and third sections, so it’s best to read it all in order. Now, onto the guide!
------ Types of Platforms ------The three categories that I have used to define the different types of platforms in the game are Low Platforms, Middle Platforms and High Platforms. Pretty straightforward, but they are kind of loosely defined. I’ll be using the terms low, middle and high throughout the rest of the guide to refer to platforms on different stages, so I’ll go over what my definitions of those heights are.
Low Platforms
A low platform is generally any platform that Ike’s grounded attacks like Utilt and Usmash can reach through. This means any of Ike’s aerials can also easily contact opponent’s on top of a low platform when you short-hop. A single full-hop will allow you to land on a low platform.
Low platforms are the easiest to cover from the ground simply because they are so close to the ground. If an opponent is on a low platform above you, there are plenty of options at your disposal for pressuring them and trying to keep them there. Basically if platforms are all your friends, these are your BFFs. So fight for them.
Stages with Low Platforms:
Battlefield
Delfino Plaza
Norfair
Yoshi’s Island (varies)
Battleship Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1
Middle Platforms
A middle platform is pretty loosely defined. Often times your Utilt and Usmash can just barely reach though it, but it is too high to do a full-hop Bair and have it auto-cancel upon landing. That is sort of the minimum height requirement for a middle platform: you can often full-hop to land on it, but a Bair used immediately as you start the jump will not auto-cancel upon landing, like it will on a low platform.
The maximum height of a middle platform can be pretty simply defined though: if a full-hop Uair or Nair cannot reach through a platform, it cannot be considered a middle platform. This means using full-hop aerials is your best bet for pressuring a middle platform, and although this is not as fast or easy as pressuring a low platform, it is still doable.
Stages with Middle Platforms:
Battlefield
Delfino Plaza
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi’s Island (varies)
Battleship Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Smashville
Pictochat
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1
High Platforms
A high platform is any platform that requires you to do your double-jump in order for one of Ike’s attacks to reach it. Fortunately, there are not many high platforms in the game, so you don’t have to worry too much about trying to pressure opponents on one. High platforms do have their uses to Ike though, so don’t discount them entirely.
Aether is perfect for reaching them, and being on top of one gives you plenty of space to work with if you want to pratfall or walk-off. A high platform on a stage also means you can use Ike’s great vertical KO power to tip the odds in your favor for a difficult MU where your opponent does not have vertical KO power. Bait your opponent onto the platform with you and even Dthrow can become a viable KO move.
Stages with High Platforms:
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
------ Platform Sharking ------When we use the term ‘platform sharking’, all we really mean is attacking an opponent who is standing on a platform from below the platform. Basically every character in the game is completely helpless if they are on a platform above you. Ike has a lot of great moves that he can use to shark platforms and pressure his opponents, which is the biggest reason he has a great all-around platform game.
Grounded Sharking Moves
Ike has three moves that he can use from the ground to hit opponents that are standing on a low platform. These moves are Utilt, Usmash, and Fsmash. Each has it’s uses in different situations and you should learn to identify what situations are best for which move. Using a grounded move to pressure an opponent on a low platform is not always the best option either, so I will now go over some viable situations you can use them in.
If your opponent lands hard on a platform and fails to tech the landing, you have several options if you are nearby. Your opponent has a few different things that they can do: they can stand up normally in place, roll to either side, or attack to get up. If your opponent has a low damage % on them at the time, it is probably best to dash beneath them on the platform and wait for their action, then use an Utilt to cover most of the platform.
If they are at a high damage % however, it is a better idea to slide an Usmash under the platform and charge it, waiting for them to perform a get-up action. As soon as their invincibility frames end, release the charge and send them to their doom. Make sure to charge the Usmash directly under the center of the platform so as to cover it entirely with the hitbox. It is important to be ready for your opponent to land on a platform and to always remain beneath them to pressure their return to the stage.
Utilt is a great option for punishing spot-dodges and rolls on a low platform, because unlike Usmash and Fsmash, it’s hitbox lingers above the platform for many frames. If your opponent likes to spot-dodge and you think that they will, and you are below them, throw out an Utilt or two to pressure them and catch them after the spot-dodge. Same for rolling, except Utilt is not able to cover the whole length of many platforms, so you have to make a hard read on which direction they will roll.
If your opponent favors holding their shield on while on a platform, this is where Usmash comes in handy, especially if they are at a high %. There are two frames of the hitbox for Usmash that will perfectly poke underneath a semi-worn shield on a low platform. Make sure your opponent is not directly above you when you use the Usmash, but about half the length of your sword off to either side. If their shield is worn enough, Usmash will poke through and often surprise them, so they will not be prepared to DI.
Another thing Usmash is great for is setting up for a tech chase on the ground if your opponent is shielding on a platform. The shield push from Usmash will often knock your opponent off the platform is it does not poke through, which means they are then in the same situation of having the four get-up options, except on the ground. More often than not, sliding a little towards them and charging another Usmash is the best option here because they won’t be expecting it and it covers many of their options. Otherwise, normal rules for a tech chase apply, read them and punish with Jabs.
What about Fsmash though? It is very rare that the opportunity to Fsmash an opponent on a platform presents itself, but it is very satisfying and can result in as early KO. Your opponent must be directly above you for it to connect, and the only time you should do it is if your opponent fails a tech and you are already underneath them, or if you make a read on a spot-dodge/roll. Be careful because it is much easier for them to punish a whiffed Fsmash than an Utilt or an Usmash. If you connect though, the hitbox of Fsmash that hits them will send them almost perfectly horizontal, thus KOing very early.
That is really all you need to know about Ike’s ground options for pressuring platforms. Sliding Usmashes are probably his best ground sharking move, although it is arguable. All-around though, Ike’s aerials are much better suited for sharking and you will be using them much more often, so let’s move right along.
Aerial Sharking Moves
All of Ike’s aerials except Dair can technically be used for sharking platforms of any height, although Nair and Uair are often the best choices. Aerials are usually a better way to platform shark because they can be used more quickly in succession, but Ike’s aerials have other benefits that make them even more ideal for preying on an opponent who is trapped above you.
One of the best ways of pressuring an opponent on a low platform is to repeatedly short-hop and Nair, followed by fast-falling back down so you can do it again very quickly. The fact that Nair’s hitbox can poke shields, surrounds a large area and lingers makes this a great way of covering many of your opponent’s options. Additionally, if they do manage to reach the ground, you can Jab or perform a defensive maneuver quickly after landing an Nair.
A short-hop Bair that auto-cancels can also hit through a low platform and, because of it’s speed, is excellent for punishing dodges and missed techs. Bair will also occasionally poke through a shield on a low platform, but it’s hitbox is too large for this to be relied upon. The great thing about sharking with Bair is that it can also KO or send your opponent’s off-stage to set up for an edge-guard. The only other sharking move capable of this is Fsmash, but Bair is a much better move all-around.
Short-hopping and using an Uair to shark low platforms is also sometimes a good idea, but Uair is best used to shark middle and high platforms. The hitbox of Uair easily covers all of most platforms in the game, and lingers for so long that it is ideal for punishing dodges. It is also a great vertical KO move and has a lot of shield push if they manage to block it, making it sort of like an aerial Usmash for middle and high platforms.
The problem with using Uair to shark low platforms is simply that it has more landing lag than Nair and an auto-canceled Bair, but like I said, it’s not always a bad idea. Uair does cover more of a platform for a longer period of time than either Nair or Bair, so it works great if you think your opponent will roll or spot-dodge. Uair can also effectively cover all of an opponent’s get-up options after a missed tech if you time it right.
Fair is not as commonly used for sharking because it is sort of like a less effective version of each other aerial option. It has great horizontal range and so is perfect if your opponent is getting up and none of your other aerials would reach in time to punish. However, it’s hitbox does not last very long like Uair, it is not fast to come out like Bair, and it does not have minimal landing lag like Nair.
It is important to mix up the different platform sharking options you have available to you, because each has it’s own unique uses. Nair is best used at low percents on low platforms in order to string into other attacks and keep your opponent above the platform for further sharking. Uair is great to cover options and KO on stages with platforms and a low ceiling like Halberd. Bair is perfect for punishing on reaction and getting your opponent off-stage to set up for an edge guard.
You don’t want to use Nair to shark high platforms, because it takes a long time to execute in the air and if you whiff it, you will be left vulnerable. Bair is likely your best bet for sharking a high platform since you can double-jump up, wait for a spot-dodge or roll and then punish with the Bair. Uair also works fine for covering high platforms since you can then fall back down and not have any landing lag, unlike trying to Uair a low platform.
Middle platforms can be effectively sharked using any of your aerials, although Nair is still a bit less favorable than Uair or Bair. Refrain from using Fair when an opponent is on a platform unless you are too far away to reach with a different aerial and you do not think there is time to get any closer before attacking. Fair has it’s uses in other areas of combat, but as a sharking move it is inferior to your other options.
General Sharking Strategy
One very important thing to realize about Ike is that he is in a much stronger and more advantageous position when he is beneath his opponents. Ike has plenty of powerful overhead attacks and is all-around excellent at pressuring airborne opponents and covering platforms. However, you must remain aware of this throughout every battle and constantly try to stay grounded below your opponents.
Any stage that has a platform can be used to your advantage if you play smartly. If you have knocked your opponent into the air and they are returning to the stage, stay beneath them at ground level to try and bait them into landing on a platform. As soon as they do, make like a shark and be ruthless. Battlefield is an excellent stage for this because it is very difficult to safely get past the platforms when falling from up above. Predict your opponent’s downward path and be ready to jump on them the moment their feet touch ground or a platform.
Using attack specifically to set up sharking is also a good idea at low percents. For example, between 20 - 50%, your Dthrow is an excellent way to pop opponents up just above a low platform so you can pressure their return. Dthrow is better for this than Uthrow because you are able to use an aerial attack sooner afterwards. Generally pressuring an opponent on the ground with Nairs and Jabs may cause them to lose their nerve and jump over you or onto a platform, giving you your opportunity.
Always be aware of how much damage your opponent has when considering what move to use for sharking in different situations. Bair, Usmash and Uair are better at higher percents when they may KO, while Utilt and Nair can be used to string other attacks and continue sharking at low percents. Also be wary of some other characters who are good at sharking such as Marth and Donkey Kong; make sure you keep them above or beside you as often as possible.
For high platforms and some middle platforms, Aether is a viable option for sharking. It comes out relatively quick and will easily punish any spot dodges or rolls on a platform due to it’s long hitbox. You have the option of landing on the platform or retreating your Aether some to land back on ground level as well, to either add more damage if you connected or escape punishment if they shielded your attempt.
That’s really all there is to know about platform sharking. Just always remember the basic principles: stay beneath your opponent at all times while they are airborne, be aware of ways to set-up for sharking at low percents, and pay attention to different situations and what moves are best used for those situations.
---- Pratfalling and Walk-Offs ----It’s all well and good when you’re beneath your opponent as Ike, but what happens when you’re the one on the platform? Well, fortunately Ike has several ways to attack from on top of a platform in order to give himself space to get grounded again. Pratfalling is simply ducking straight through the platform, while a walk-off is just that, walking off the side of the platform.
Pratfall Options
Typically, the best time to pratfall is from a middle or high platform, since fast-falling through a low platform will make it impossible for any of your aerials’ hitboxes to emerge save Bair. That said, there are times when pratfalling a low platform is a good idea. The key thing to remember when pratfalling and attacking is that the C-stick is your friend. This is where having the Tilt Stick setting (see the Control Schemes section of the guide) comes in handy for using Nairs.
Bair is arguably the best move you have on a pratfall for many reasons. As I’ve already mentioned, you can fast-fall through a low platform and instantly Bair to hit opponents on the ground below you. It is very fast and can be used to punish dodges or other actions. The hitbox of Bair when used on a pratfall will also hit other opponents who were on the platform with you, making it a great hit-and-run move to put yourself below them and apply pressure simultaneously.
A great option for pratfalling middle platforms is Nair because it’s hitbox will surround you as you fall, and it has minimal landing lag. Using Nair through a high platform is not suggested unless you fast-fall, because it will take some time to end in the air. You can pratfall through a low platform and then immediately double jump and Nair to either land back on the platform very quickly after Nair’s hitbox emerges, or land on the ground after pressuring the whole platform.
Your Uair is excellent for use when pratfalling a high or middle platform if your opponent is on the platform with you and you think they will try to pratfall as well. As long as you keep your spacing away from them, Uair will outrange many aerials. Try to use it with your back to them, since Uair’s hitbox lasts longer behind Ike, so you can punish them if they air-dodge. If your Uair connects, it will put them back up above the platform so you can shark them.
Fast-falling a pratfall on any platform and then double-jumping and using Uair to cover the platform is a great idea as well if your opponent shared the platform with you. This is also an excellent way to pressure an opponent’s return to the stage from above. Stand on a platform below them and make like you’re not planning to move, then when they fall closer, pratfall, double jump and Uair to catch them as they land.
For platforms that overhang the ledge on a stage, you can use a pratfall Dair to spike your opponents. Some stages that are great for this are Smashville, Frigate Orpheon (the first transformation), Delfino Plaza (one of the main transformations), Brinstar, and Norfair. It allows you to line up where you think they will jump or use their recovery, and then drop down and spike at the perfect time from straight above.
Pratfalling and using Fair in one direction while retreating in the opposite direction is great if your opponent is not directly beneath you. This can’t be done on low platforms though, because Fair’s hitbox will not have time to emerge and you won’t be able to retreat far enough before landing. If your opponent is on the same platform as you then you should stick with pratfall Bairs and double jump Nairs/Uairs.
Walk-Off Options
Using aerials as you walk off a platform is a good tactic that can often catch opponents off-guard. While pratfall aerials are usually more effective when done from higher platforms, walk-offs tend to be best used off of lower platforms. The difference is that when you walk-off, you are not instantly losing height at a set speed, so all of your aerial attacks have time for the hitboxes to fully emerge. Also, you have better horizontal control from a walk-off at a low height.
Unlike for sharking and pratfalls, Fair is a very good attack to use when walking off a platform. If your opponent is on the ground a good distance away, a walk-off Fair can often surprise them with it’s range. You can walk off and the pull back on the control stick while using the C-stick to Fair so you retreat in case it is whiffed. Walking off a high platform and fast-falling an Fair is decent but not much different from pratfalling.
Walk-off Nairs from low platforms are very effective, and is a good way to approach from a platform at low percent since Nair’s hitbox will end before it loops behind you, allowing you to Jab your opponent sooner as a follow-up. Like Fair, using the C-stick to Nair offers you more control over your aerial movement for spacing, which is mostly what makes walk-offs better than pratfalls for Fair and Nair.
Again, walking-off a high platform with Nair is very similar to pratfalling and using it, but there are exceptions on stages like Battlefield and Norfair, where you can walk off one of the top platforms onto a lower one. Hitting your opponent with Nair on a lower platform by walking off a higher one can then set up for Jabs, a pratfall Bair or sharking at low percents if you can get below the platform after popping them up into the air.
Walk-off Uairs are viable as a way of poking through an opponent’s shield. Walking off a low platform and using an Uair when a tall character is holding their shield on nearby is perfect for poking through and getting a KO at high percents. It works even better if the other player is standing under the platform, because Uair’s last hitbox comes out behind Ike, so you can pull back the control stick after walking off to poke them with that last bit.
Using Bair from a walk-off is not much different from pratfalling and using Bair except that you will have more horizontal control on the way down. Bair will still hit opponents on the platform you walked off and on the ground if done from a low platform. The trouble with walk-off Bairs is that the hitbox is primarily behind you, so it is not nearly as good as Nair or Fair for approaching off of a platform.
General Pratfall/Walk-Off Strategy
Obviously using attacks while pratfalling and walking off platforms is not always your best option for getting down. Sometimes it’s better not to risk the landing lag and just air-dodge on your way down instead. If your opponent is not underneath the platform you are on, it is often safe to do a walk-off aerial, and if they are beneath you, a pratfall Bair will often work as long as you time it right.
Just remember all of your different options and pay attention to the different situations you are in throughout the battle. Being aware of your different options is the first step towards being able to effectively choose the best options in real-time. Only through experimenting with different options will you be able to determine for yourself what the best ones are, and when to use them.
Keep in mind too that being above an opponent is Ike’s weakest position, so if you find yourself on a platform with your opponent below, you’ll need to think quickly. The fact that Ike has several effective options for returning to the ground can make it tricky to choose the best one for each situation; just keep in mind that it’s more important to get yourself to the ground as quickly as possible than it is to attack in the most effective way while doing it.
------ Using Quick Draw ------Every time you use Quick Draw with an opponent near your destination it is a gamble, because you don’t want to whiff the attack. If used with discretion, QD can be a great tool for movement, especially with the help of platforms. The main thing you always have to keep in mind, is that you never want to hit your opponent with QD. To give you an idea of how easy to punish QD is, if a Captain Falcon power-shields it and reacts immediately, he can punish it with a Falcon Punch.
Proper Quick Draw Use
So now that I’ve hopefully deterred you from ever wanting to use QD as an approaching attack, let’s go over how you should use it instead. If you use a QD in the air but very close to the ground, it doesn’t have much landing lag as long as you don’t hit anything. Essentially there is no difference between the ending lag of a grounded QD versus an aerial one close to the ground, but you don’t want to use it too high off the ground.
One thing that allows QD to end sooner though, is using it close to the ground and then landing so that you slide right to the edge of the stage or a platform. This is great for quickly getting in position for an edge-hog on the stage, and also for quickly getting onto a distant platform. When using QD, you should always have several follow-up options in mind; never commit yourself to one follow-up, but never QD aimlessly either. You should only use QD to get onto low platforms that you could reach with a single full-hop.
QD onto a platform is all about the follow-ups and how you use them. If your opponent is in the air near you when you land, you can Jab very quickly to try and catch them off guard. Immediately using an Utilt can catch your opponent after an air-dodge if they are returning to the stage above the platform, since the speed of the QD approach will often throw off your opponent.
Another great way to punish an air-dodge or an aerial attack is to immediately slide an Usmash in the opposite direction. This depends on how well you know what your opponent will do in the situation. They are falling from above, you QD to the edge of a platform beneath them, pivot and slide an Usmash so that the back end will hit them if they decide to try and attack you. This is assuming, again, that they are thrown off by the suddenness of the QD approach, which many players will be if they are not used to it.
Immediately jumping and using an aerial attack is also a good option at your discretion, particularly a retreated Nair or Fair if your opponent is close. What move you use is really dependent on the situation, since essentially the only difference between normally being near your opponent and using QD to approach, is that it may surprise them or cause them to do something that is punishable.
Obviously you can apply what you know about pratfalling and walk-offs here as well. Using QD onto a platform and then immediately doing a pratfall Bair is excellent for attacking opponents under the platform. If you find yourself beneath a platform with an opponent, you can even jump away, turn and QD onto the platform above and them pratfall Bair for an unexpected approach.
Stringing the landing of QD into a walk-off is excellent for a fast edge-guard on stages with platforms near the ledge like Battlefield. If you just hit your opponent off-stage on the other side of the screen, full-hop and QD onto a platform in pursuit of them and then walk-off Fair, Dair or Uair to edge-guard based on where they are when you arrive. A walk-off Dair towards the ledge from a Battlefield platform will spike right at the ledge, which is perfect for recoveries that do not snap to the ledge or for plankers.
Obviously it works the other way as well, by using QD onto a platform over the stage you can then walk-off and use an attack like Nair to string into other options. It is a great way to approach quickly, but take care not to do it too often. The key is to keep the element of surprise fresh and only pull out the QD to a platform approach when your opponent will be caught off-guard by it.
Quick Draw Stage Compatibility
Obviously not all stages with platforms are great for using QD onto them. Some have platforms that are too high or not large enough, but many will work just fine. Battlefield is the perfect stage for practicing the timing and spacing involved with doing the maneuver properly. A full-hop will get you the perfect height to land on one of the lower BF platforms, and then another full-hop from their can you to the top one.
Smashville’s platform is possible to QD to from a full-hop, but it requires more precise timing because it is higher than the low platforms on BF. It is sometimes beneficial to QD out to the platform when it is over the ledge of the stage, for example to quickly string into a pratfall Dair, but it is very risky. Practice doing QD to the Smashville platform at different distances and while it is moving in different directions to accustom yourself to the timing and spacing required.
The platform on Yoshi’s Island is also tricky because it tilts from side to side. If you full-hop from one of the higher points of the main stage you can QD to the platform when it is perfectly straight. You cannot full-hop and QD to the platform if it tilted away from you even slightly, but you can if it is tilted towards you. Be very careful not to hit one of the Shy Guys with your QD, because it will leave you helpless the same as if you hit your opponent.
The platforms on the main transitions of Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 are easy to QD onto from a full-hop, but make sure you space it correctly, since they are not as wide as a Battlefield platform. There are some other platforms during the other transitions that you can QD to out of a full-hop, such as the one on the right during the fire transition of Pokemon Stadium 1. Experiment with all the different transitions so you get used to the various platforms.
Lylat Cruise is a very tricky stage for this maneuver, and there are only certain ways you can safely do it. Never attempt to full-hop QD to the left or right platforms coming from the middle of the stage; they are both slanted outwards, so you will fly right through them and possibly fall all the way to an SD. You can QD to them from the outside though, by full-hopping out away from the stage and using QD back towards them. You can also full-hop QD to the center platform, but be wary of the stage tilting; even a slight tilt can throw off the height enough to mess you up.
Halberd is decent for doing the QD maneuver, and it works on both transformations of the stage. On the first, it is best to do your full-hop from the middle part of one of the slopes on the main stage so you have just enough height. On this stage, the technique is best used for mobility, especially on the second transformation. If you want to cross the stage quickly, full-hop forward and QD onto the platform; it will allow you to gain distance and height much faster than just dashing along the ground, which is great for chasing an opponent you just hit up and away.
Delfino Plaza is a haven for this technique because of all it’s varying platforms. There is one transition with two platforms off to either side that overhang the ledge and a single long platform way up high, and it is important to note that the two side platforms in this transition are too high to full-hop and QD too. There is a similar transition however with two side platforms that are slanted inwards, and this one is perfect to full-hop QD to the platforms and then pratfall Dair for an edge-gaurd.
One transition of Delfino has only two platforms: the one on the right will be slightly higher than the one on the left. During this transition you can full-hop QD to the left side platform, and then short-hop QD to the right platform from there. During the transition with two centered platforms that are both very long (the higher one will slant down at the edges), you can full-hop QD to the first platform from the ground and then full-hop QD to the higher one from there.
Be careful when trying full-hop QDs on the first transition of Castle Siege, because the different ground level heights can mess you up. During the second transition you can full-hop QD to the lowest platform then reach the higher one from there. It really isn’t beneficial or possible in a practical way to QD onto the large canopies in the second transition, so don’t bother with those.
Frigate Orpheon’s first transition has plenty of ways that you can use the full-hop QD. You can do it to get onto the platform on the left of the stage, which is an overhang and thus great for edge-guarding. A full-hop QD will also get you perfectly onto the right platform from the main stage when it is raised up, and from the right platform onto the main stage when it is lowered. The technique is not as useful during the second transition of the stage however, since you have to be standing on one of the stage slopes to get the best height for a full-hop QD, but you’re practically under the platform at that point.
If Delfino Plaza is a haven for platform lovers, then Norfair is heaven. The platforms are all about the exact same height from each other as Battlefield platforms, which makes them perfect to full-hop QD to. On top of that, you can grab all of their outer ledges, so you can short-hop QD under each platform from the middle of the stage and grab the outer ledge. This can be very confusing and difficult to track for your opponent if you mix up your options well. Just make sure to practice so you don’t make any costly mistakes in a real game.
Jungle Japes is interesting for this technique. From the main stage in the center, you can full-hop QD to the platform above you (although it is relatively high like the Smashville platform) or short-hop QD to either of the outer platforms. Then from the outer platforms you can full-hop QD onto the top platform in the middle. You can also use QD in other ways; for example if you are hanging on the outside ledge of one of the outer platforms, you can drop down, double jump under the platform and immediately QD to land on the main stage. If you QD too late you will just grab the ledge of the main stage, so practice the timing until you can land on the stage consistently.
And finally we come to Brinstar, which is kind of risky for QD shenanigans. You can full-hop QD to the right side platform from the highest point of the main stage and the slopes around it, but watch your spacing carefully because it is a narrow platform. From there you can then perfectly full-hop QD to the highest platform. From the same high point on the main stage, you can also full-hop QD to the leftmost platform, and both side platforms are great overhangs for edge-guarding.
You guys don't actually have to read that wall of text if you don't want to; but if you do and you can think of anything I may have missed just let me know.
D. Edgeguarding
San
Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711 View Post
I remember typing about this a long time ago. Meh I'll still write somethin.
Interception
Ike has range, and a lot of it. Therefore, Ike does not need to go far from the stage in order to edgeguard. MK is immune to most of these. Against MK, one must rely on well timed bair and uair(facing away)
1. When you and the opponent are in the air, above the stage
Best move: full hop fair
Mixups: bair, uair
If the opponent is in the air above the stage, you can safely full hop + fair most characters in the game. Well spaced, all they can do is avoid it or air dodge. If they air dodge and not fast fall a well spaced fair, you can fast fall at the end, land, and punish the air dodge with jabs or a grab. Bair can be used as long as the second jump is retreating. Uair can be used as long as you're facing away from the opponent. You can full hop and fast fall all these aerials.
2. When you're on land, on the edge of the stage, opponent above.
Best moves: jab, ftilt, dash attack
Mixups: hop+eruption, retreating aerials
Ftilt is one of the best moves you can do near the ledge because of its amazing range, as well as its ability to be tilted in 3 directions, upwards, straight, and downwards. Not many characters have options to it other than to get away, especially when timed/spaced correctly. Jab is useful just for the amount of hurt the opponent will be in if he gets hit. If he gets hit, then you can time many more jabs until they eventually escape, possibly ending with the full jab combo.
I added dash attack for its ability to be used from a variety of distances away from the ledge. It's range covers half of BF, which is amazing. This is used to punish opponents who get too close to the ledge, within dash attack's range. This makes it effective to punish people who like to hop from the ledge. It also hits some of the cast while they hang on the ledge. If you hit with dash attack, it's not hard to follow up with downwards ftilt or a walk off aerial.
Double jump + eruption is a cool mixup if you think they're trying to get onstage as much as possible. It's safer in this situation because they can't punish as well if you miss. Jumping covers more area, so it's hard for opponents to go above you. Retreated aerials also work fairly well in this respect, since you have very small risk and a nice reward, where they usually get knocked offstage. If they shield near the edge, almost all of your moves will knock them away again.
3. Opponent is below stage-level
Best moves:
On land: quickly grab the ledge, walk off dair, spaced aerials. Dash attack(falco)
In the air(with double jump): any aerial to your discretion. Dair and fair usually work best.
Most of the time, if you feel you can grab the edge and get an advantage (the opponent has to go to the stage or he gets gimped), simply grabbing the edge is your best bet. if they land on stage, it's your chance to hit them with any aerial, if you can. If you grab the ledge, and quickly let go, you still have invinciblity for a short time, allowing you to drop and reverse aether if it seems appropriate.
Against falco, dash attack is a viable move to use here, because it messes up his double jump a lot if he jumps from underneath the stage.
If you have attack stick, walk off dair with cstick is not bad. If you time it well, yet miss, you can still aether to either the ledge or the stage. Walk off dair, you can easily get a spike, or the non sweet spot hit because of its long disjoint. If you walk off and fair, you have no choice but to grab the ledge, so if you miss, it's VERY dangerous.
E. Dealing with Ledge hangers
Foodies
[collapse=refined rough draft edited by Ussi]
1. Stand an appropriate distance away – Depending on what character you are facing, your distance will be closer or farther from the ledge, as each character has a different get-up attack range. For example, the space animals’ (Fox/Falco/Wolf) get-up attack range (under 100% at least) cover a lot more distance compared to a character such as Jigglypuff. This means you should also look at what % your opponent is at to position yourself correctly. Most people do not actually use the get-up attack too much, as it is easily punished on block, but be aware that they have the option. You also do not want to be too close to the ledge, since even if you shield an attack, you might be pushed off the stage yourself. [maybe should mention ledgedropped attacks too, though they usually have same range as a get-up attack]
1a. Look at %s – After 100%, all characters’ get-up attacks change, typically becoming slower and stronger. Also, the higher the percent someone is, the longer it takes for them to normal get-up and roll from the ledge. This means they have more invincibility frames, but also more vulnerability frames. [Jump speed is the same?]
2. Attacking – If your opponent stays too long on the ledge, their invincibility frames will run out, and you have the option of hitting them. Yay.
Fair – The best option and anti-planking move ever. Nothing but very long ledge attacks (And sliding aether -_-.. few more exceptions but meh) can ever dream to counter a fair on the ledge. Its best to time to hit with the tip of fair just when the invincibility frames should end, hard to time but it'll get people who don't let go of the ledge right away. It also destroys ledge rolls with its range and those trying to plank can't hit you back with any aerial.
Dtilt – Spiiike! The fastest move that will probably kill if it hits. Not the best option at all as the range it has doesn't protect you. It'll work on those who have a habit to drop the ledge to do an aerial of the ledge.
Ftilt (angled down) – This option is pretty beast, but risky. It puts the pressure of being unsafe on the ledge there with more range than dtilt and if they get on stage and shield the hit, it pushes them back. best option against those trying to ledge drop to an aerial.
Fsmash – Lolfsmash. The startup time alone allows your opponent to react and do something to avoid it; if you miss you are likely to get punished as well. You can charge it for mindgames, but it’s not likely to hit anyway. Those who are ledge attack happy will be at dismay when you stand a pixel out of their range and fsmash their lag. but that requires you to know their character better than them lolol.
Usmash (back end) –a nice option as the back end has less lag then ftilt. Careful on who you use it on though. Its the best option when you expect them to ledge jump to get away. But if they don't do that, at least usmash can still hit in more areas like those staying on the ledge.
3. Waiting – Even if your opponent’s invincibility frames run out, sometimes it is better do not hit them, as they can be timing their get-up just as you attempt to hit them. Character’s options are more limited on the ledge, so you can react to what they do.
Sort of related side note – Characters that have recovery moves that auto-sweetspot the edge (Marth comes to mind) will get landing lag if they land on the stage (without using an aerial) after sweetspotting the edge. You can get a free attack if they forget to cancel their lag. [People who are good would always cancel it though]
-Jump speed does also decrease with increased %.
-Ftilt has longer range than Dtilt, and can outspace some ledge getup attacks.
-Got a list of characters dash attack can hit while opponent is on the ledge. For those too lazy to memorize the list, the general rule is if the character's head is above the ledge, a dash attack can usually hit them. The dash attack must also be spaced properly or else it won't hit.
List Show
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
DK
Yoshi
ZSS
ICs
MK
DDD
Olimar
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Ness
Lucas
G&W
[/collapse]
F. Following Up Your Moves
Foodies on jab canceling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foodies View Post
Intro: Jab is Ike’s best move, and he arguably has one of the best jabs in the game. If you hold down the A button, Ike will do the standard 3-jab combo if the opponent is in range. But that is boring; and no one can call themselves an Ike main if they do not utilize the awesome technique that is called JAB CANCELING.
Side note: If the opponent is not in range of the next hit when you hold down the A button, the combo resets back to the first jab, possibly leading into a combat walk.
What is it?: Jab canceling is what it sounds like, stopping the jab combo to do some other move. It’s best to cancel after jab 1 since people can DI out of jab2 cancels more easily.
How to do it:
Originally Posted by Nysyarc
Second method:Basically you just crouch (tap the control stick down) at a certain point after using the first or second Jab and it resets back to the first Jab again. You have to time it right though; if you crouch too early it will just use the next Jab in the sequence, while crouching too late obviously means it will be slower/easier to escape.
Originally Posted by Mr. Doom
What you can cancel into: Depending on your opponent’s reaction and position after getting jabbed, there are various followups. You have to judge if it is better to cancel into something or just simply finish the combo. Technically, you can cancel into anything, but some moves are obviously better and more used than others.I recently found out an easy way to jab cancel. I just hold diagonally backwards (meaning, opposite the direction Ike is facing) and jab with the attack button.
Jab – The most basic and probably the best option. Jab1>jab1 is a true combo if done properly (need to verify), and is basically free damage for you. Use it.
Grab – This is useful if your opponent tends to shield while getting jabbed, or if you jab a shield. Instead of continuing the combo, just cancel into a grab to beat the shield. Jab>grab usually does less damage overall than a full jab combo; however, a throw can set up for edgeguarding or juggling.
Bair - Canceling into Bair is one of Ike’s kill setups. After the jab, buffer a turnaround, short hop, and bair your opponent. The Bair should auto cancel if you do it right. Alternatively, if your opponent DI’s through you, you do not even need to turn around. It is recommended that you retreat the Bair so it would be harder for your opponent to punish if you happen to hit shield.
Uptilt – Canceling into Uptilt is another one of Ike’s kill setups. If the opponent is using a floaty character or tends to DI the jab combo up and towards you, uptilt is a viable option.
Dtilt – One of those extremely situational options that is awesome when it works, but shouldn’t really work. Use it when the opponent is offstage (obviously) to spike them. If they are onstage, the move can still kill, but you are most likely better off doing another move.
Dsmash –There was a discussion a long time ago about the viability of this move (including after a jab cancel), but the conclusion was basically that the move that does not exist. It comes out at the same frame as uptilt, but is weaker and has much more ending lag, which its slight increase in range does not compensate for. The only time I see this is useful is if your opponent decides to roll through you after shielding the first hit of Dsmash, so the second slash hits them...but that would just be idiotic. If your opponent likes rolling through you, a better option would just to turn around and fsmash.
Notes related to jab, but not necessarily jab canceling-
If the opponent likes to DI the jab through you, you can also just turn around and start jabbing again.
To add to this, some characters can't do anything about jab 2 > jab 1 due to how slow their aerials are and how ineffective their UpB gets them out of it.
jab to grab cannot be done out of a spaced jab because of how short Ike's grab range is.
san
[collapse="jab 2 missing is cool"]
Jab 2 missing is good.
[/collapse]They can't do much as long as you're buffering after jab 2 correctly. If you're not, that's when they can get out.
Even with perfect DI, it's not hard to get them into a combat walk
1-1 -hold A
and
1-2-hold A
can both work on various characters if you get the jab when you're close enough.
To combat SDI, you delay after the jab1 so they fall a little, then proceed to get the combat walk.
Delaying jab1/other option after jab2 is only a mixup since there's nothing much guaranteed, but their options are limited to falling (can take advantage of landing lag), jumping away (take advantage of used double jump), and get away aerials/moves (you can shield+punish).
Delaying jab2 after jab1 can take away double jumps and lead to more damaging punishes, also.
I just tested, and you can't shield a jab2->jab1 if the Ike buffers correctly.
san
[collapse=Spacing jab 2 is boss]
Jab2 is just about as fast as jab1 with a lot more range. It just has less combo ability but that makes up for leading into jab3 anyways (and jab1 if close enough and buffered properly but unlikely when spaced).
[/collapse]Thing about jab 2 is that there are many variations to using it, since it comes after the first jab and there are some hit confirmations to keep track of.
Uses of Jab2:
-Punishes short hops
-trades/clanks with everything
-jab1/3 followups
-very good if well timed after hitting with jab1
Getting jab2 to come out:
Unless you hit someone, you have to time jab2 manually for it to come out faster, otherwise jab2 will come out a little later. If you don't jab cancel, you can get jab2 to come out pretty late in the animation of jab1.
Spacing with jab1 will let you know when jab2 is okay. Don't jab2 shields unless the tip of the kick would hit the shield. If you think the opponent will dash, jump, or if you can pressure shield/shieldpoke, it is okay to throw out.
Followups after jab1:
Jab1 has a lot more combo potential. Since jab1 combos into itself, you know you have much more time to choose when to throw out jab2.
Delayed jab2 after jab1 keeps them in your jab range longer. If you delay it a few frames after it really combos, you can take away an opponent's jump, which then makes them a punching bag.
If someone dodges your jab2 after you hit them with jab1, be cautious because both of you would essentially be in a neutral position at that point.
If jab1 misses:
Be on the lookout for whether you should jab1 again (spaced on shield or enemy far away), shield, dash away, or retreating aerial in addition to jab2. Jab2 is wise against opponents who like to dash, SH aerial, and jump out of shield preemptively.
If jab2 misses:
This is a little harder than the above. Jab2 has a little bit more lag. You can hold A to revert back to jab1 with a small combat walk. You can also perform any of the defensive options described above.
san with nair
Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711 View Post
I like it because it's our most useful spacing tool. 95% of it you know, but I hope I can provide that extra 5%. Massive tl;dr. I'll just color useful parts
It's range is just about as long as marth's fair, so not many characters can out-range it. This means that not many characters at all can directly challenge Ike's nair. Unlike Marth's fair, Ike's nair goes just about all the way around him, making Ike pretty safe against people trying to juggle you if you're fully retreating away.
If you face away from your opponent and nair, if you time it right by landing while the hitbox is behind you while still retreating, he can't punish it. Just whipping out nair while your opponent is chasing you is effective on most of the cast.
Kimchi told me how you can full hop + nair onto ledges, which is pretty useful. Also, on irregular surfaces, fast-falling an nair the correct way could give you a slide, which is pretty funny. Useful on brinstar, for example.
I made a post a while back about juggling with nair. The hitbox hitbox starts above you, which is a useful place to start, so you can follow opponents through their entire dodge animation. Nair can be used as a frame trap in order to get past opponent's air dodges. It works wonders on characters like snake and wario, mixing up between nair and jab. Since many characters can't directly challenge nair, they try to get around it, but they can't really air dodge, either. Ike can also fast fall the nair in order to jab or grab or shield opponents who are still in the air.
The best thing about nair is that it pays off to get a hit with it. On heavies, jab after nair is effective, but doesn't work quite so well on light characters with quick aerials. Back air after nair is pretty cool when it happens, but be wary of danger if you miss, so know when to retreat your bair or not. When I'm feeling daring, I dash + charge an upsmash and wait for the air dodge. Against characters who don't have quick and fast aerials to get away, might as well do another nair.
The attack I do most after nair is just uptilt, since I'm not usually in danger if I miss. On stages like battlefield, it could lead to you getting loads of damage from them landing on platforms. I may follow up with an aerial pivot grab, or upsmash.
The good thing about getting characters caught in nair, is that if they lose or just don't have their second jump, It's an easy pivot grab-->backthrow+dash attack.
In combintion with Ike's other moves such as jab nair provides us with plenty of mixups as well as a decent close quarters defense.
[collapse=throws]
Quote:
Originally Posted by san3711
At higher percents, if a character doesn't tech your bthrow, it allows for an easy tech chase (with aerials or shield approach jab punish)
Quote:if an opponent lands near the edge, you can be a bit more liberal with your aerials (because if they shield, they'll be pushed offstage usually) Throws at non-dash attack % really just allow for further pessure on the opponent, but nothing really guaranteed. It just forces a neutral position, with you having the opportunity to close some distance.
Fthrow offstage to dash attack usually forces an air dodge or they get hit. Throwing offstage in general is pretty nice against people with just one jump so you can pressure wih long-range aerials/tilts from a safe distance from the stage.
Originally Posted by YagamiLight
Back Throw
More bthrow options:Option 1: Dash Attack
Option 2: Jump + Forward Aerial
*Dash Attack is generally a true combo on everyone from around 30 to 100 per cent.
ForwardThrow
Option 1: Dash Grab
Option 2: Sliding usmash
*Dash Grab preys on their instinctive shield after a fast move such as Fthrow and Up Smash will punish them if they get into the habit of spot dodging.
DownThrow
Option 1: Jump + Neutral Aerial
Option 2: Dash + Aether
*The justification behind the Aether is that they may try to go as high as possible after the Dthrow (to avoid Nair) and will not go horizontally enough to avoid Aether.
UpThrow
Option 1: Dash Pivot Grab
Option 2: Up Aerial
* This is pretty much inferior to Dthrow so use the one thing it has over it: the ability to put the opponent close to you for a possible quick regrab.
on sloped terrain and he can also Bthrow to Ftilt the larger ones
regrab (for those who shield expecting a DA usually)
upsmash (for those who spotdodge...need to time this)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limit129 View Post
[/collapse]Bthrow's Stale(revison):105%
(Training mode is always 100%, you know)
The following numbers mean the damage when Ike grabed.
(Ike can do DA that time.Remember these means stale 105%)
means.
If you're too lazy to watch the video:
Mario 19%~88%
Luigi 0%~88%
Peach 0%~85%
Bowser 0%~99%
DK 11%~97%
Diddy 20%~86%
Yoshi 0%~93%
Wario 20%~93%
Link 10%~91%
Zelda 15%~82%
Sheik 19%~82%
Ganon 11%~94%
TL 3%~86%
Samus 19%~94%
ZSS 19%~80%
Pit 9%~87%
IC's 0%~85%
R.O.B 21%~93%
Kirby 28%~79% (Kirby sould jump+Airdodge)
MK 19%~79%
DDD 0%~95%
Olimar 0%~81%
Fox 18%~80%
Falco 19%~81%
Wolf 15%~91%
Falcon 22%~92%
Pikachu 19%~80%
Squirtle 18%~78%
Ivysaur 0%~89%
Charizard 11%~94%
Lucario 22%~90%
Jigglypuff 28%~74%
Marth 19%~84%
Ike 23%~92%
Ness 0%~87%
Lucas 0%~87%
G&W 0%~78%
Snake 11%~96%
Sonic 21%~87%
Now for my own thing, I love to do fthrow and bthrow to nair at low %s where dash attack is too early to use. It eats spot dodges and can keep the combo and momentum going.
To add to Foodies, reverse usmash would probably be a more viable choice but charge it depending on how much time they get to spot dodge.