How to play this character properly

Phyras

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
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21
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South of France
#41
Last week I was having a hard time landing my grabs for some reason. I wonder if I need to approach nair more to make them shield.

But one guy said I should be doing a lot of fade back nairs to deal with his Fox but keeping Pit that aerial seems like asking for trouble. I've gotten stunted on for trying to play in the air rather than dash dance against Fox. I suppose I can't just be mindless about it.
I think Nair on shield to unsafe to be worth the conditioning useless you're able to consistently cross-up and fake cross-up. Fair might be a bit safer and can easily poke (fair/dtilt mixup ?).

I find myself really weak on my grounded neutral and I'm pretty sure it goes with a "go for aerials" bad habit. My aerial game really suffer from my grounded game and I'm almost thinking of playing without jump button for a while.
 
Joined
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#42
I appreciate that but what if I fight a G&W lol? Is it just GG switch to counterpick? Arrows r pretty central, and bucket can end careers.

Last week I was having a hard time landing my grabs for some reason. I wonder if I need to approach nair more to make them shield.

But one guy said I should be doing a lot of fade back nairs to deal with his Fox but keeping Pit that aerial seems like asking for trouble. I've gotten stunted on for trying to play in the air rather than dash dance against Fox. I suppose I can't just be mindless about it.
well he didn't say game and watch bro. That is The one character you gotta be really careful with your araoz about. Of course that's assuming pits araoz give him a killer bucket and I don't know if They do If the bucket fill he gets out of it isn't that strong Then just fill it up and slammed with arrow. And actually Retreating nare Is really good against Fox. But obviously you can't be mindless about it you can't be mindless about anything in this game It's people who do just random mindless b******* For no reason That will always lose To top players Because they are always Thinking about literally every move they make. I will go more into the matchups after the next Patch But My advice to you And this is important so pay attention My advice to you Is this and this alone Nothing too hard nothing too complicated Just this. Don't be a mindless bot Always think!
 
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#43
Hey I just wanted to tell you guys to watch the playing with fire tournament stream tonight on twitch. Trela will be there using pit and the Street Fighter characters probably a couple others but mainly those Street Fighter boys and the Angel:) it should be a good watch the tournament starts at 7 so the stream probably is going to be on around 7 or 7:30 keep an eye out :). Hopefully the Patch comes out soon and I can get to work on stuff for u guys again like the matchups and the stage stuff. although until then any questions you have I got you :)
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
229
#44
Sorry for the unexplained absence, I took a decent hiatus from Smash after online became a bit too toxic for me but I’m back in the game, and have certain Pit related expectations for that patch. As for the subject I’m most interested in, Dark Pit’s viability, I have some info on which MU’s Dark Pit realistically has the advantage in: they’re three matchups out of the 70+ but it’s better than none. For the most part, Pit’s arrow is much more useful than Dark Pits when you start to master it, and that’s true for the majority of matchups. But here are the exceptions.
:ultdarkpit:‘s Advantage Matchups::ultsnake::ultike::ultchrom:

I believe I’ve explained Snake enough, so let’s move on to Ike. Dark Pit’s arrows are better at gimping Ike. Since Ike relies heavily on being underneath the ledge to recover, the much higher knockback from Dark Pit’s Silver Bow are much more adept at gimping Ike. As for how Pit compares, what Pit mains will notice after time is that it can be problematic when someone saves their jump and sheer forces through arrows. When the opponent doesn’t panic and understands how the Palutena Bow works, until they reach high percent or are quite a district from the ledge they can avoid being gimped. Furthermore, Electroshock “2 frame” on Ike’s recovery is a stock gone, making the move an actual factor in the MU. Here’s some examples of Dark Pit vs Ike MU, by the best Dark Pit we got right now.
Watch the second game.

As you can see, Dark Pit’s arrows are a particular menace to Ike. I don’t think there were any Electroshock “2 frame” clips in the above, but there are plenty in the below example about Chrom. Chrom also has an extremely linear recovery meaning if he’s pushed too far out he cannot recover. Furthermore, lackluster aerial acceleration means interrupting his drift with an arrow is even more of a problem. Lastly, emphasis on that Electroshock “2 frame”. If mastered, it makes the MU near unwinnable for Chrom, since every single time he enters disadvantage offstage he loses a stock.
 
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#45
Alright I'll try to explain this. And then afterward enough talking about dark pit in this thread I'm never gonna change my mind that there is not a single match he is better in until some sort of buff happens. If you wanna talk dark pit talk about him in a dark pit thread. This isn't a comparison thread and you're not asking a question on how to get better. If you have a question on how to get better I'm happy to help but I'm not doing a comparison thread

Alright let me address the first and biggest problem and that is that these players are terrible players these are pools videos bro and the other one is friendly's. If this guy is the best dark pit then there's no point to even watching him he's just really really terrible like against the inkling was some of the worst play on both of those players parts I've ever seen for those characters. If you want accurate match of knowledge you need to be watching people who can get to top 20 at an actual tournament. Bad players do not provide accurate match up knowledge. Not to mention there were several times in those games with swordies where the regular arrow could have corralled him or hit him and set up the edge guard way better. The only thing that was interesting was electroshock at one point when he ate his jump during a get up jump and knocked him away .

this is what the match up between pit and a sword character is supposed to look like. Actually there's several matches to watch the only ones that didn't really pan out the way they are supposed to was grand finals but that was it 2:30 in the morning and it was our first time playing against those characters with pit so once we study the matchups more it'll be a lot better. But the part of the video that you want to watch starts at 4 hours and 31 minutes for swords

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/458461973
 
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Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
229
#46
Alright I'll try to explain this. And then afterward enough talking about dark pit in this thread I'm never gonna change my mind that there is not a single match he is better in until some sort of buff happens. If you wanna talk dark pit talk about him in a dark pit thread. This isn't a comparison thread and you're not asking a question on how to get better. If you have a question on how to get better I'm happy to help but I'm not doing a comparison thread

Alright let me address the first and biggest problem and that is that these players are terrible players these are pools videos bro and the other one is friendly's. If this guy is the best dark pit then there's no point to even watching him he's just really really terrible like against the inkling was some of the worst play on both of those players parts I've ever seen for those characters. If you want accurate match of knowledge you need to be watching people who can get to top 20 at an actual tournament. Bad players do not provide accurate match up knowledge. Not to mention there were several times in those games with swordies where the regular arrow could have corralled him or hit him and set up the edge guard way better. The only thing that was interesting was electroshock at one point when he ate his jump during a get up jump and knocked him away .

this is what the match up between pit and a sword character is supposed to look like. Actually there's several matches to watch the only ones that didn't really pan out the way they are supposed to was grand finals but that was it 2:30 in the morning and it was our first time playing against those characters with pit so once we study the matchups more it'll be a lot better. But the part of the video that you want to watch starts at 4 hours and 31 minutes for swords

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/458461973
You may disagree with me, keeping in mind I’m maining Pit right now, but we both have our own experiences and opinions. Like you, I want to put this topic to rest. As for your comment about Len, I meant it. He was a bit rusty at the time of both videos, with the first after a month long hiatus and the second after 3 or 4 months without playing Ultimate, but Len’s been playing Dark Pit since he was first released. He was taking on Bayonettas in Sm4sh with the much weaker Sm4sh DP. Here’s his player profile.
Len Profile
If he’s not the best DP in the world, which is certainly possible, he’s definitely the best in Canada. There is not much skilled representation for DP. Anyway, Len is is no way, shape or form, a bad player. You can even see he’s made top 20 or even top 8 several times. His friends include Big D, who is a great Dedede player and one of the best Ice Climbers in the world. He’s also beaten Alphicans, a respectable player who placed highly in Pinnacle 2019. He’s no pool fodder. So your statement about him being terrible and bad isn’t accurate.
Len VODS

Well, if you don’t wish to speak of Dark Pit and I don’t either, we can all hope that he gets buffed and the Pits get more unique niches and roles in comparison to each other.
 
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#47
I can admit when I was wrong. I didn't realize line was as good as he is I've only seen his videos and I bassis playoff that because that is all I know of him. But if he's doing good against those players is definitely good enough to get machap experience off of. But yeah like you said the dark pit versus pit topic is very pointless honestly right now. And it's not that I don't like dark pit that's not the case I love him as a character I'm a big kid icarus fan my problem is that they didn't do him justice and in trying to make him different they made him ineffective. Like why not make his arrow able to be aimed straight down downward? And have the downward knockback be medior knock back? Why not make his side special knock people out and down at a 45 instead of out and up at a 45? Or why not give him different araoz altogether maybe give him actual silver boero and make them bounce off the stage if he shoots them down?

Like I said whenever the Patch comes out hopefully things will be a lot better. Man what if they made both of them able to aim down with that would be incredible. I really hope both of them get some good buffs this Patch. Anyone has any other questions just let me know and I'm always down to brainstorm ideas and such it is just that should probably be a different thread back in the day in the old smashboards brawl pit board we made something called the innovative idea thread. We used to go so hard back in the day making guides and stuff it was great if y'all ever wanna see the roots of your character check out the old brawl pit board
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
229
#48
I saw Trela’s matches and he played very well for the most part. The match against Palutena wasn’t that great, even though the MU is pretty solid for Pit. Trela kept trying to hard land via air dodges. He also didn’t seem to be playing neutral with as much intention, he kept overextending, it seemed his play in that match was significantly worse than earlier. I also find the Bayonetta MU to be difficult. Bayo out damages you with combos, and if you try to seal the stock she can pull a reverse card and take yours. Trela was great at dealing with Mega-Man though. I was worried when he went Ridley in the last match, but despite Ridley being combo food Trela got momentum, kept it and took the grand finals.
 

Courageous Baka

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
77
Location
Northeastern United States
#50
Now this is probably a stupid question, but what exactly is microspacing? Is it just another name for regular spacing in how Marth lands his fair at max range to reduce the risk of getting punished like you were talking about earlier? If that's
not a proper example of microspacing, what is?
 
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#51
Micro spacing is where you try to get the most optimal option out of the spacing that you are in. Like you said for regular spacing mearth trying to land his forward aerial at maximum range to reduce getting punish is standard spacing. Micro spacing is essentially just regular spacing it is just at a more precise and optimal level. Like if it is mark versus Luigi your spacing doesn't necessarily have to be perfect because you have so much range micro spacing is just actively achieving or trying to achieve perfection .
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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#52
How well do you think this video explains Pit’s arrows? I’d like to learn more about jump coverage etc, really want to become good at gimping.
 
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#53
I think I remember watching that video at some point and I think it was probably OK but I'm sure it lacks things however I'm not gonna lie it is evo weekend I will watch that video soon and let you guys know but honestly it shouldn't even take that long if you explain it all precisely so I'm gonna assume he rambles a lot.
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
229
#54
I think I remember watching that video at some point and I think it was probably OK but I'm sure it lacks things however I'm not gonna lie it is evo weekend I will watch that video soon and let you guys know but honestly it shouldn't even take that long if you explain it all precisely so I'm gonna assume he rambles a lot.
Yes, Jhill admits himself he is a bit of a rambler and can struggle to get all his thoughts together, but Pit resources are so scarce that this video is gold to me.
 
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#55
Yes, Jhill admits himself he is a bit of a rambler and can struggle to get all his thoughts together, but Pit resources are so scarce that this video is gold to me.
alright I hate to say it but that was a terrible video. First and foremost pit araoz are nothing like acuma fireball they are not positive you cannot approach with them reliably. While jumping down shooting arros downward is a good thing to do sometimes He overvalues it too much. Only thing of actual use that I learned from that video is that you can't fire another arrow until the other arrow runs into something or disappear. Oh and that arial arow come out faster well I'm not sure if that's true if it is that is something important to know. Aside from Matt that he has some clues to the right way ways you're supposed to use arrow but I would not use that video as a reference for how to act actually use the arrow
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
229
#56
alright I hate to say it but that was a terrible video. First and foremost pit araoz are nothing like acuma fireball they are not positive you cannot approach with them reliably. While jumping down shooting arros downward is a good thing to do sometimes He overvalues it too much. Only thing of actual use that I learned from that video is that you can't fire another arrow until the other arrow runs into something or disappear. Oh and that arial arow come out faster well I'm not sure if that's true if it is that is something important to know. Aside from Matt that he has some clues to the right way ways you're supposed to use arrow but I would not use that video as a reference for how to act actually use the arrow
The main point is due to lack of Pit resources, especially for the Palutena Bow, this is basically all I’ve had, I think it’s the only video that focuses on how to use Pit’s arrows. Most video guides tell you that Pit’s Neutral Special is Palutena Bow, maybe list frame data, mention that it can curve and move on. It’s not a high quality guide, but I learned a few things for sure such as using arrows to catch jump in the neutral, option coverage in the air via predicting the opponent’s next choice, and basic different curve angles for the Palutena Bow. I really hope Pit gets some more support behind him in developing his ‘meta’.
 
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#57
I feel that it would be nice if more people could make better videos. What I would suggest you do for now is when you are watching the videos of tournament play ask yourself every time you see pit shoot an arrow whether it hits or not pay attention to what the result of that arrow is did they Dodge it and get punished did it hit them what happened after etc. For now I really only suggest that you watch trela videos sense he is the only one doing it right for the most part for his most recent videos are on the coral sword YouTube channel but they don't really say the character so you kinda gotta guess which video of his it is but he went pit for most of the last tournament

actually here I will just post so of the videos on the tournament that were worth watching. Don't forget he is still burning learning this character and while he has learned him very quickly he still has a ways to go but his arrow game is pretty top notch

https://youtu.be/7C-Nv1LLxn0

https://youtu.be/qI9Y2tFjrDE

https://youtu.be/GeQKpHQO8UM
 
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#58
Hey I just wanted to let you guys know I added some videos to the front page if you guys wanna watch them some of them are repeats but now everything is in one place so hopefully that hell helps out. Honestly I don't know who the mod is but whoever they are you guys should probably update the frame data guide and then sticky that and if you feel that this threads were the sticky it too hello L. Also I'm about to open up a match up discussion thread but it will be better than that other one that I saw
 

LightKnight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
218
#59
Uhh… Apparently Pit has some Utilt shenanigans...
At around 2:10

And this one starting at 5:05

I had no idea this specific situation could happen. Not sure how practical or reliable it is to pull off but it looks quite useful! That is, if they don't tech the initial landing. Thoughts?
 

Phyras

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
21
Location
South of France
#60
After some tries, chainning Joker or Shiek on PS2 is easy, doesn't even need him to miss an initial tech.
It's just about hitting with the first hit of the up tilt, it will drag down Joker and ground falling is untechable.
This first hit will make joker bounce out of range of the second hit.
Joker will bounce (still untechable) a second time during the uptilt recovery.
Mashing uptilt wont work because the first hit of the next uptilt will whiff during the second bounce.
So the hardest thing to do is timing the first hit of each consecutive uptilt with the third landing.

Reproducing it on PS1 is harder, platforms are lower so the second hit should connect unless the character has a stupid animation like shiek and joker.
I can't reproduce that but in your video the shiek didn't miss the tech but the chain start anyway. I guess the Pit player know exactly what they are doing and know somethigng we don't... Maybe it's because the falling animation is clipped by the platform edge.

If someone's out there want to try stages, characters, percentages, have fun.
 
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