How to play this character properly

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
So I'm sure all of me know who trela is. Me and him used to live together But since my accident I just coach All my friends at all the fighting games they play . I get The privilege to coach people like Him and gnes And TTN Lucy And TTN sync . Me and trailer have been working on his pit . By the way there is gonna be typos with my voice thing so just deal with it . At one hour and 3 minutes and the rest of the video is all With trelas Pit . When you watch this video don't be amazed at how good he is or anything like that Instead watch the mistakes he makes and watch how he learns From making them And adapts . A Perfect example of this is early on in the video you will see a point where he could have just kept going for bakare edge guard until he got the kill But then he Goes to try and do something else . You'll also notice some other key mistakes like Even though he uses up till very innovatively sometimes he misuses it and he corrects that with down tilt And jab As replacement . Then when you see him play on that dark Pokémon stage that's kinda like calis I think it's called lulow or something like that From that point on you will see him Put together all the adaptations he needed to make Like the back air edge guarding And take his pit to a whole new level . And right now he really only knows the basic fundamentals Has a good eye for kambo structure And has pretty damn good aim With his arrows For not having practice with them that much . he still has to learn all the nuance Stuff and master it Like how to get all of the arrow angles Diagonal shot Half circle Edge drip Etc . Aside from posting this video Below I am also going to write you guys out a guide On how to play this character properly And what you want from him What you need to understand with him Etc . And also to the person who gave me those condolences and the other thread I haven't been on in awhile but I wanted to say thank you for that I appreciate it . Without further ado here is the video Start at one hour and 3 minutes and watch it all the way to the end And remember try to study his mistakes As well as his Mix up's and decision making Because he is without a doubt the best pit in the world And he doesn't even know everything about the character yet That's the sad reality pitmans live in right now . The guide will come in a second I'm gonna make it the first post below I just wanna get this up so you guys can watch the video


https://www.twitch.tv/videos/418106...xwzs04hEXwuRAPT8ZpgMTXD25JbTlQ0pqalqC3n0z43Aw

edit.
I am adding some videos of gameplay since the above video has expired off of twitch so here are some matches of trela and I am also posting some videos of some techniques that I thought were interesting so I am timestamping these 4 those interested to see

Matches

https://youtu.be/hx5KXgIx8Rc

https://youtu.be/hx5KXgIx8Rc

https://youtu.be/hx5KXgIx8Rc

https://youtu.be/GeQKpHQO8UM


Tech

https://youtu.be/NMYnt7lexx0?t=795 this is an actual thing but it works better if you delay doing your Nair until right before the peak and then you fast fall and land on the third hit it leaves them in the air after you land and then they land and have landing lag

https://youtu.be/wwi1tbLPNgM?t=926

https://youtu.be/wwi1tbLPNgM?t=713

https://youtu.be/nioB6_cq8Ew?t=176 this entire video isn't bad
 
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Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
Alright first and foremost dark pit is not a character . The entire point of playing Pitt Is to play a slower paced neutral Until he gets advantage state then aggressively pushes advantage state Through the process of juggling And Edge guarding . The Controllable Araoz Are the biggest threat to off stage character . You corner carry someone off stage And force them to either eat or Dodge the arrow . When someone is off stage For every arrow that you hit Shoot another one When it messes because they dodged or went the direction you wanted them too that's when you go out and f*** them up . Dark pit cannot exploit the reason the character exist His arrows and his sidebe suck compared to regular pit . The vertical knockback of regular pit Side B Kills everyone in the cast between 75% and 135% based on weight From anywhere on the stage whereas Electro shock has to be near the edge And facing the right direction . So if you're gonna play this character play regular pit Or don't bother . Oh yeah I shouldn't Have 2 Say this but obviously confirm your combos and know what your combos are Because that applies to every character .

All right onto the real part of the guide . I'm going to break this down into sections .
1. The dash dance mix up Is a huge fundamental part of pits metagame . Use your dash dance And the options you choose out of it Both to condition your opponent As well as punish your opponent . Your main options when dash dancing at a safe Close range are dash attack Or dash cancel attack with a tilt or something , Dash grab , Aggressive neutral air Or retreating neutral air , And Retreating pivot arrow . The attacks Will condition your opponent to shield more And if you do the Moves properly You can make it hard to punish . Then when the opponent starts to shield more That's when you start mixing in the dash grab . Although both people don't think it Pitt is kind of a grappling character . He gets the most reward From landing a grab more than any of his other Options . Down throw will always khambo into something Even if you have to do a buffard double jump aerial Like neutral or up aerial You can always get something even at high percent .
Now pivot arrow is an important part of this character that none of you guys seem to understand How to use . And it's not your fault If you didn't play brawl you werent forced to run away from characters like meta Knight and wario . But with the buffing to the dash mechanic pivot arrow is now more important than ever . When you dash back away from someone During your dash dance mix up Relatively often you should take a extra half a step back And then be reverse a grounded uncharged arrow . Don't think of this is project I'll camping think of it more as spacing with like a spear . It's no different than mearth's forward airing at you With proper spacing to avoid being punished . Now I'm done at the right spacing a pivot arrow can set up a lot of stuff . If it hits them You can buffer a dash attack And while it will not true combo It will frame trap them if they Try to press a button . If they spot Dodge It Then you can Punish that with the dash attack a dash grab a neutral air it's dealers choice really Downtilt is also a good option . If they short hop at you as if they're trying to fair Angle the arrow up Now they have a choice of landing with an attack or air Dodge or jumping again all of which you can punish React properly .

2. Good neutral and Safe sequences .
Because We have such a large tool box it is important to pick the tools that are appropriate for the match up . This seems obvious but you'll see people Aggressively naring at pechu Or shooting arrows at a grounded olimar . While altools have some uses in all matchups In a lot of mchips you are going to be sticking to certain tools for the majority of them . One of pitz greatest tools is that he has safe sequences . For example Space down tilt Followed by retreating neutral air Is a safe sequence . What say you hit someone's shield with the chip you're down till . By doing a retreating neutral air You are covering Attempted dash attacks Aerials out of shield Smash is out of shield Etc . Is the sequence guaranteed against the whole cast no but most of it yes And there are other things you can do that are not punishable or damn close to it . I'll post a list of good Save sequences Before I go into details of the neutral . But you guys are gonna have to figure out what you wanna use these sequences for
Well spaced down till Into> retreating neutral air both short and full hop , Full hop retreating downar , Backwards Roll , And the most important one of all Simply moving backwards . Also while not quite as safe you can start these sequences with the jab First hit as well And while it has the negative side of putting you closer to the opponent Then downtilt It gives you the option of finishing your jab .
Retreating Fast fall Auto cancel Neutral aerial > Uncharged aero .
Out of shield Full hop Downar > Jumping in doing another one or just jumping away And landing somewhere .

Now let's talk about the neutral . I love characters with lots of options because that gives them an incredible neutral And Pitt is one of those characters . You guys have to rise to the occasion though All of these tools are good and proper for their job At the cost of picking the wrong tool usually f**** you over . Really study your move set and really think which move is actually better for certain situation . So many times I see people try to do a greedy kill withrising back here on a grounded opponent It will never work Unless they are airborne or you are already coming down . Plus it's really obvious . Literally almost anything would be a better option in this example . An example of good neutral Would be using your tools to get them off stage And GIMP them instead of going for the kill Or Bait them into missing so you can punish Or Into hiding your super armor on your side be . Sorry I'm getting off topic .

Now the core moves of your neutral game in order Of Importants Are neutral aerial , Araoz , Downtilt , Down aerial , Jab , And sidebe And I almost forgot Reflector Permitir's . These are the moves you should be making the absolute most use out of during your games . You should know all the ends and outs all the angles All the confirms And their proper application At every percent In every position . Your neutral air is your bread and butter . It is good for pressuring Shields if you auto cancel it properly . It covers punish options if you retreat with it . However if you just do it in place Against a grounded opponent It's just going to miss because it hits more in front Then underneath Up close . So when using it for example out of shield You should always either try to cross them up with it or retrieve it but do not just do it in place . If you do get a hit with it Know how to properly follow it up A lot of the times another neutral air is the absolute best follow up . Sometimes you chase them with a downar they go onto a platform To get a job block or something . Really get a feel for the followups and applications of your most important move

The beautiful light Arrow . When fully mastered It takes your character from being an honest toolbox To the black market on the edge . I can tell you guys right now and none of you have better aim than Trellix And he doesn't even practice the aeros that much . And I can say this for a fact because I've watched just about every pic video online And if you say You are better but you're not online then you don't matter Back to the guide . Araoz allow you to control the stage in an insane way . They set up gimps they tak on damage They space Anti air Hit crouching opponent And force Situation . On stage Use them to harass your opponent Make them want to come to you Because pittas counter gameplay is impressive . Off stage 90% of the time you should try to hit them . If you don't trust your am at the very least use them to cut off certain direction So that you can punish them for going in the direction You forced them to take . Whenever someone is off stage if you hit them with an arrow You should always fire another one 99.9 percent of the time . That second arrow will either hit in which case you repeat And shoot again Or they'll be forced to Dodge or attacked it in which case you can punish them and probably gimp em. Now you guys think Oh that's easy you have so much control no it's not Sometimes you need to short hop the arrow to get the proper angle Sometimes you have to go off stage to get the proper angle And sometimes you have to stand in just the right spot to get the proper angle . Remember in this game the tightest Angle you can do with an arrow is a perfect half circle in any direction . If you fire an arrow straight the tightest angle you can pull is either up or down and a half circle If you shoot the arrow up The tightest angle you can do Is a left or right half circle And this applies to all the charges . On certain parts of a stage you wanna short hop your arrow and hold down before it even actually releases So that it goes right over the edge and straight down . Sometimes you wanna fire up and then hold left so you can hit them at one of their weird high side angles When people with bad recoveries try to be tricky with their options off stage . Having true control of your arrow Takes a lot of practice And if you are lazy about it you will never bring out the full potential of your character .

Down tilt . Properly spaced it is Not punishable out of shield . It will almost always convo into something as long as you are not bad Sometimes it will be up smash sometimes it'll be forward air sometimes it'll be neutral air Sometimes it'll put someone in a javelot situation on a platform You are responsible For knowing the followups from this move . It is frame 6 it is one of the longest downtilt's in the game And is beyond a doubt pits best grounded move . So long as you space and follow up properly it'll be good to you Suck with it and it'll f*** you over For being bad .

Jab . It's frame for it's got good range And it has a Multihead finisher that does basically 14% . It has a good angle for hitting people in front and below you And The first hit Is low commitment .

Side special . Kills the lightest characters Between 70 and 90% Kills the midlight Between 85 and 100 Mid Between 100 120 Heavy 125 to 135 Superheavy 135 and up . There is only one frame of vulnerability when you do this move so if you time it wrong that's your damn fault . You can punish almost every short hop aerial With this it is really easy to read peoples jumps with this Just eat the move and kill them Or make them have to land . It's also a really good option When you are edge guarding someone And you think they're going to get up with an attack or an aerial . Just don't use this move is a reflector Well honestly shouldn't even have a reflector it should just be super armor 90% of the time it hits things at upward angle so that it misses . The only time it's appropriate to use this move is a reflector is against Zelda With the night .

Guardian orbiter . It's a f****** reflector Is it the way it's supposed to be . Learn the timing for Reacting With a quick reflector that you don't hold out . Get a feel for using it as a landing tool . Learn which recoveries it f**** up and why For example PK Thunder recoveries You are the reflect the Thunder away from them Or they hit you with the big hit box And because it single hit it breaks the shield but you are fine and probably blocked their recovery with your body . Or jumping out in front of a hike while holding it down so that way Windows side biante you they literally go nowhere . Reflecting donkey Kong Blah blah blah Get a good feel for this damn move nobody uses it properly .
Add it : Now while I went over quick reflecting with them I didn't really get into using them to block recovery Moves All that well . Since you can't pass through people in this game like normal Do you to the wave pits orbiters work You can go out there and just block someone from being able to get back with your body in the orbiter . For example if ike Is trying to sidebe Back onto the stage or the ledge If you Position yourself Directly in the line of fire the move And just hold your orbiter While falling with Ike Eventually he's gonna have to let the move go and it's just gonna hit your orbitor and even if the orbiter brakes you're not gonna take damage because it's a single hit new that broke the orbiter And because you didn't attack him I was gonna go into free fall and die . You can do this to ness Because his PK Thunder is a single hit move And there's also a good chance that you will reflect the PK Thunder away from him and he won't even get PKT 2 out And just die . You can do this to the space animals On all of their recovery You can do this to donkey Kong If you time it Don't forget the initial activation turn stuff around like mario's Cape Kind of . You guys experiment with all the different moves you can stop with this move It's pretty incredible What you can do With this move when he really understand how it works

Your goal with this character Is to play a safe bait and punish neutral . Then when you get the hit Optimize it try to carry them off stage And edge guard them Aggressively And really press your advantage . If you don't take the opportunity to press Pitts Advantage state when you have it Then you shouldn't play the character at all . Between Controlling your projectile And long lasting hitboxes You have one of the most aggressive edge guarding toolkits in the game So use it . Otherwise you're just gonna keep playing neutral over and over and never getting your reward for playing good neutral .

Pits Weaknesses Are mainly his landing options are kind of weak And His in the air Juggle Game Is somewhat lacking . And while The next thing is not a weakness It should be said That his micro spacing Is kind of advanced And truly applying all of his tools in the most optimal manner Is more complicated than most players Are used to But at top level this character becomes so much more rewarding It is worth it

Pets main strengths Are his edge guarding game Is out of shield options And his edge carrying confirmations . And you know what I would call his microspace in an advantage actually will be At top level .

This is all I feel like typing right now If you guys want any more specifics Ask me in here And I might get back to you at some point I just figured I would do this because I'm tired of watching bad pit videos I need you guys to put in the effort to be better with my character . Again sorry about the plethora of typos My voice text thing is a b**** And editing is too much of a pain in the a**


https://youtu.be/rTPxKioXE08 I just edited this in . This is a Brohl Video Of the best pit at the time versus the best meta Knight . His Aim Is terrible But his gameplay And use of arrows Are an example that should still be used today . If you guys play the character in this style With the mechanics of this game that allow you to get actual rewards for your Hit confirms You'll be a much better player of this character
 
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Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
How should you use arrow stalling? When Pit charges an arrow, he can prolong when he fires by rapidly alternating between left, right, and up.
Use it sparingly Throughout the match . There aren't that many situations where it's called for But the best time would be when someone is coming in From off stage Up high . When you do the rapid alternating thing it causes the charge charge slower So you can wait until they are within perfect range and then hit them with an arrow Or in a best case scenario You can cause them to prematurely air Dodge And then you just release the arrow . The only other times it's really applicable Is when you do a runaway pivot arrow If you stalling place like that sometimes it can fluster opponents 'cause Then to Dodge or something Else punishable And then you just hit them with it . However honestly When you are doing Hey dash dance into a pivot arrow Or just backing off in pivot aerowing after them It's better to just charge it Normally And hit them with it . There isn't really A time where Just charging your arrow isn't better Except for the times I mentioned above .

In general whenever you're using your araoz Whether it's up close ish Or far away It's always good To mix up between uncharged Araoz And charged Aeros . And change up the timings on the charges when you do do a charge there . I would say for every 2 or 3 arroz Uncharged You should fire one charge arrow And very your charges Between light and whole As you see fit .

The other main reason your charger araoz is literally for distance . kNo the maximum range of your arrow at any given moment for all charges . Basically anytime you knock someone away you should shoot an arrow after then Because there is no reason not to . However this isn't raw Old school araoz These ones have limits based on their charge So it higher percent You need to know How much charged a thorough on an arrow to follow after them with it and it hit . Because all it takes is one Under situation is drastically different .



If anyone else Has any questions about literally anything About this character go ahead and ask me in this thread . Whether it is Match up advice Stage choice advice How to get out of a situation How to land how to get on stage How to edge trap Match up specific stage advice I will do my best to give you guys adequate Answers . Watch that video a lot Both of them actually Trying to corpa rate those 2 play styles into one
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
255
So, with Dark Pit I do agree that Pit is better in the majority of situations. Nevertheless, there are a few where Dark Pit is better, for example in the Snake MU. Against Snake, Pit’s arrows aren’t very useful against his recovery, whereas DP can deal more damage per hit and break the armor with a small charge. Furthermore, on-stage Snake likes to play from a distance, and DP’s arrows are faster and deal more damage, which is important when taking advantage of the end lag from throwing grenades. Lastly, Pit’s side Special kills too late against a character as heavy as Snake, to the extent that most of the time when you reach that percent Electroshock will kill as well. And Electroshock kills heavyweights between 80-90 on ledge, while Upperdash can’t take advantage of that in ledgetrapping.

I believe the Pichu/Pikachu MU is another example, their extremely fast recovery makes gimping/forcing air dodges not very viable, and DP’s arrows are better onstage due to their higher speed and damage. Their tiny hurtboxes further compound this problem, as does Pichu’s fast fall Speed. Lastly Electroshock on ledge kills ridiculously early. While Upperdash kills at 80-90 anywhere on stage with good DI, Electroshock kills on ledge at 60. And kills at 100 mid stage.

Stage blast zones come into effect here as well. Some have smaller horizontal, other vertical. Relatively neutral MU’s between the Pits, like Inkling and Palutena, are more in DP’s favor on Lylat, WarioWare, and Yoshi’s Story/Island.

To make it clear, I’m not saying DP is amazing compared to Pit, I was worried as well about him being outclassed but he benefited heavily from his arrow buffs in transitioning to Ultimate. Pit is better in most MU’s, even on some stages with smaller blastzones. But DP does have his uses, and may be just what a Pit player in tourney needs to edge out a win in a close set. So in conclusion, Pit is better overall but Dark Pit is viable in certain situations.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
So, with Dark Pit I do agree that Pit is better in the majority of situations. Nevertheless, there are a few where Dark Pit is better, for example in the Snake MU. Against Snake, Pit’s arrows aren’t very useful against his recovery, whereas DP can deal more damage per hit and break the armor with a small charge. Furthermore, on-stage Snake likes to play from a distance, and DP’s arrows are faster and deal more damage, which is important when taking advantage of the end lag from throwing grenades. Lastly, Pit’s side Special kills too late against a character as heavy as Snake, to the extent that most of the time when you reach that percent Electroshock will kill as well. And Electroshock kills heavyweights between 80-90 on ledge, while Upperdash can’t take advantage of that in ledgetrapping.

I believe the Pichu/Pikachu MU is another example, their extremely fast recovery makes gimping/forcing air dodges not very viable, and DP’s arrows are better onstage due to their higher speed and damage. Their tiny hurtboxes further compound this problem, as does Pichu’s fast fall Speed. Lastly Electroshock on ledge kills ridiculously early. While Upperdash kills at 80-90 anywhere on stage with good DI, Electroshock kills on ledge at 60. And kills at 100 mid stage.

Stage blast zones come into effect here as well. Some have smaller horizontal, other vertical. Relatively neutral MU’s between the Pits, like Inkling and Palutena, are more in DP’s favor on Lylat, WarioWare, and Yoshi’s Story/Island.

To make it clear, I’m not saying DP is amazing compared to Pit, I was worried as well about him being outclassed but he benefited heavily from his arrow buffs in transitioning to Ultimate. Pit is better in most MU’s, even on some stages with smaller blastzones. But DP does have his uses, and may be just what a Pit player in tourney needs to edge out a win in a close set. So in conclusion, Pit is better overall but Dark Pit is viable in certain situations.

I completely disagree bro Pit is way better against snake than dark pit . Charge arros still Hits Him out of his recovery If you charge it enough And you have the control to make it a threat Instead of just a straight line Since dark pit angling is a joke . And even if his arrows do more damage it's actually only like 2% or so Maybe like 3 at most That you're gaining but they are so much slower and easy to Dodge or shield Just avoid because you can't curve them for crap That they are useless . And petside special will kill snake at 135% On most stages And you can do the exact same ledge traps With both side bees . But mainly are gonna be killing him off stage . Aside from the arrow damage Their regular damage output is the same What their regular move set And it least with the aeros you can aim You can still for snake to prematurely up be . Also since electroshock can only kill by the ledge they will be looking for it more against dark pit then they are against pit who can do it at any point .

And against pechu in Pikachu the advantage of the arrow is being able to short hop in shoot your arrow's down at them Avoiding their project tile while hitting Hitting them with yours . And regardless of which pit you use your not really supposed to use araoz against the rats off stage You're supposed to abuse quick attacks with Nair And punish their get ups. Plus regular petside be will kill the rats anywhere on the stage At 70% and up on P Chu and 90% and up on Pikachu So you don't have to rely on getting a lucky sidebe Near the ledge you can actually time it at any point which is the real threat .

Even on stage is with smaller sideways blast zones there is no point to use dark pit Because again his araoz never hit people So even if they're stronger it's pointless if they don't hit And both of them have the same horizontal killpower aside from their side B The forward smash and bakare And down smash will still catch Them dead at the same percents .

Basically dark pit might be easy mode pit for low level pits in those matchups But regular pit at actual top level character mastery Always outclass dark pit In every match up In my opinion . This opinion might not be popular But me and my boy trel Had a long discussion about this we really tried to find a point where pit Would be worse than dark pit in Any point But we just couldn't . we watched videos And every time we do see a dark pit there is always some point in the video where regular pit would have been the better answer . Maybe if they increase the damage and the speed on dark pit saros even more And made his side bykill earlier Then we could talk But they just aren't good enough To ever warrant picking this character over the utility you get with pit .

Hell even Nairo's Dark pit got bodied when he tried to use it Because the arrow's are useless And the sidebe is only viable at the ledge . Regular pit kinda stomps on zero suit You can combo her pretty easily And regular pit Upper dash arm Kills her at like 100 Anywhere on the stage Which makes it better again because it's not obvious . And zero suit Even with her Good recovery Is aero Food off stage because she doesn't have armor on her recovery So had he had the regular light araoz he probably could have gimped her a few times Either with the arrow itself or setting up a bad situation with it . And if you don't believe me about the air is being useless go back and watch nyero who is probably the best dark pit And see how many times is aroser actually successful Watch any dark pit video for that matter in see how many of those arrows actually matter .

I know I come on strong with my opinions and even stronger with my typos thanks to my voice texter LOL But it's from years of studying this game and the games before that I came to my answers that I'm giving you guys now . Unless they give dark pit a serious buff Or just even a drastic change To the character he will always play second fiddle to regular pit Who has Way more versatility . But also don't think I'm ignoring your opinion I respect your input as a player I just don't see any evidence personally Of dark pit ever being more versatile than regular pit Except maybe in double Sometimes .

Anybody else have any questions about this character Or want to debate something or anything? Whether you think I'm right or wrong When I answer you At the very least My years of experience with these games may benefit you in a way Unintended So ask away
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
255
My view on the Snake MU doesn’t only come from my experience, but from the consensus of the Pit discord. The main reason for DP is punishing Snake at long range with those arrows. You may disagree, and that’s alright as you do have plenty of experience, but most Pit players prefer DP in this MU. Regardless, I will try working on my Pit more, his arrow skill curve has discouraged me since I’ve been working on the basics more this past month, and DP’s offer more reward at lower skill levels.
EDIT: Also snipes with the kill screen are flashy
 
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Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
I understand that and that's why I said dark pit is easy mode If you don't have the skill to control regular pit psaros at top level . However since the regular pit araoz charge so fast And at maximum charge they have sniping capability as well As the capability to knock him off his recovery When you break through the skill gap between the 2 characters That's what truly Sets them apart Is when you have perfect control Over the Light arrow . If you watch that trela Video You'll actually see a few times Where he fully charged and arrow and hit them off the screen at the edge and smite them for the kill . For all U pit Players Truly try to get a hang On controlling the light arrow at maximum capability . Get a full understanding of all the angles That the arrow can possibly go in . For example the tightest angle you can ever do is a true half circle in any direction . No matter what the charge this is true . Another example would be If you flick diagonal down or up One or 2 frame Before you release the arrow And let the stick return to neutral Your fire a slight diagonal arrow either up or down which is useful for hitting Characters trying to crawl As well as cutting off short hop . You can stand above the ledge and shoot a half circle area down word And hit below the stage where you were In a line .

But until you have mastery of the arrow I guess there's nothing wrong with playing dark pit if you wanna cut out The most essential Yet difficult part of pitz gameplay . Even just being able to cut off a direction Is more valuable Then The dark araoz you are going to constantly mess with To no avail . Force yourself to just play regular pet And what time you'll start to notice just how much more beneficial the light arrow is should you choose to use it properly . At least in training mode practice regular pit And Just use dark pit until you are ready to use pit Against people .

Do you guys have questions about any other matchups? I don't wanna go round and round on snake and dark pit anymore Because I'm sure it's getting boring to others So what other matchups do you guys have questions about? Starfox characters Fire Emblem characters Big bodies Boxers Any character ? Stage knowledge ? Kambo strings on certain stages That are more effective And why ?
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
One of the best thing about being a pit player is that he's actually good on every stage For different reasons . When you are picking a stage You should be thinking more about how your opponent does on that stage in which stage allows you to take advantage of their weakness is the most . Like for example Pittas combo game As well as his ability to land safer Is enhanced by stages with platforms So against characters Who Don't recover high And Are Combo Bait As well as people to cover landings easily Platform stages Should be your go to . On More open stages like callos and final destination Pittas arrow game is enhanced As well as his Juggling and landing coverage capabilities So you should take characters who have a hard time getting past projectiles As well as landing to these stages . The only reason this character would avoid any stage is if the opposing character does better on that stage . For example you do not take snake to battlefield Because it gives him an easier way to land And more places to lay his traps . Instead you should be taking him to places like Callos Or final destination . Against someone like Roy or lusina You would wanna take them to battlefield Or yoshi's island Because the platforms Give you options to land against their incredible juggling game As well as allow your combos to carry them off stage easier Setting up more edge guard situations . Which stage you go to depends on your opponents character more than it does your character When it comes to pit It's all about pressing the right advantages against the right characters

b Reversing And wave bouncing Your araoz Is definitely An option To help you with landing and getting back to the stage Or the ledge So long as your aim is good . But it's not something you're going to be able to rely on very much for landing . That is more something you would Do with the orbiters But in the right situation it's definitely viable . However aggressively From a grounded or short hop Position Be reversing and wave bouncing araoz is a very good mix up In fact The pivot arrow that I am referring to So much Is just a grounded arrow that's be reversed Towards the opponent Out of a bakdash . Another thing you can do If you are running towards the opponent While you are still out of range Turn around as if you're going to do a rar And then immediately Do a short hop Be reverse Arrow And charge . This will cause you to start flying backwards from the opponent while charging an arrow Which you can release at your whim . The aerial Thing I just mentioned shouldn't be used too often but it's a good mix up However The standard grounded pivot arrow Is a Key Fundamental of The character .
 

Courageous Baka

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
80
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When you bring up all these points involving pivot arrows, knowing the right positions and angles for arrows for every situation, and knowing the exact right tools to use excessively in every matchup (though that last point probably goes with any character), it makes Pit seem more complex than I thought he was. This guide has taught me a lot of things about Pit I don't think I ever would have discovered on my own. Thank you so much for this and all your other advice. It should benefit me a lot towards becoming the best with Pit I can be. Also, I hope that your life remains a peaceful and positive one even in the condition that you're in and that things go in your favor.
 
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Maharba the Mystic

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I appreciate that sentiment brother :) And of course pitmans gotta watch out for each other And you know he really is a way more complex character than people think he's one of the most complex . The reason people think he's such a easy use character Is because his tools cover Everything but not too extremes And are naive about the complexity of the arrow itself . They also seriously devale His combo capability When it's actually one Have the most solid combo structures in the game .

Here's one last bit of advice that I think I'm gonna edit up into the main section of the guide 'cause I just realized I didn't really go into orbiters that much ...

Now while I went over quick reflecting with them I didn't really get into using them to block recovery Moves All that well . Since you can't pass through people in this game like normal Do you to the wave pits orbiters work You can go out there and just block someone from being able to get back with your body in the orbiter . For example if ike Is trying to sidebe Back onto the stage or the ledge If you Position yourself Directly in the line of fire the move And just hold your orbiter While falling with Ike Eventually he's gonna have to let the move go and it's just gonna hit your orbitor and even if the orbiter brakes you're not gonna take damage because it's a single hit new that broke the orbiter And because you didn't attack him I was gonna go into free fall and die . You can do this to ness Because his PK Thunder is a single hit move And there's also a good chance that you will reflect the PK Thunder away from him and he won't even get PKT 2 out And just die . You can do this to the space animals On all of their recovery You can do this to donkey Kong If you time it Don't forget the initial activation turn stuff around like mario's Cape Kind of . You guys experiment with all the different moves you can stop with this move It's pretty incredible What you can do With this move when he really understand how it works


Again if you guys have any questions I'll be checking this periodically :)
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
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Ty a bunch for these tips I will try to incorporate pivot arrow now. Seems like a lot of what I've learned over the past few months is that Pit is ironically a grounded Marth.

Is bair really better than fair as the go-to gimp option? Seems like fair reaches far and gets me kills sometimes and bair range feels like a toothpick sometimes plus the sourspot. But then again, maybe it would b good to have an active hitbox that close to the body when falling on someone.


What r Pit's best short hop fast fall auto cancel applications? I feel like with Pit's multihits they have a lot of good potential yet Pit feels worse in the air so I don't want to hang in the air unless I know I'm going for an approach like nair. I really suck with sh ff autocancel tho I need to practice that, is it worth? Seems like sh ff autocancel fair into grab is good or maybe nair. That's safe.

Dtilt can combo into that stuff? Now that I think about it it has worked at earlier percents. One thing I've learned recently is that sometimes I have to chase people down and it seems like dash attack works pretty well for that with its size based on Nairo vs. Marss. Altho maybe that's something I should stick with dtilt for.

U spoke of advantage a lot, r u mostly talking offstage? Seems like I can juggle people decently well with ff Upairs but if they have a dair like ZSS that I have to respect it kinda falls apart.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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Ty a bunch for these tips I will try to incorporate pivot arrow now. Seems like a lot of what I've learned over the past few months is that Pit is ironically a grounded Marth.

Is bair really better than fair as the go-to gimp option? Seems like fair reaches far and gets me kills sometimes and bair range feels like a toothpick sometimes plus the sourspot. But then again, maybe it would b good to have an active hitbox that close to the body when falling on someone.


What r Pit's best short hop fast fall auto cancel applications? I feel like with Pit's multihits they have a lot of good potential yet Pit feels worse in the air so I don't want to hang in the air unless I know I'm going for an approach like nair. I really suck with sh ff autocancel tho I need to practice that, is it worth? Seems like sh ff autocancel fair into grab is good or maybe nair. That's safe.

Dtilt can combo into that stuff? Now that I think about it it has worked at earlier percents. One thing I've learned recently is that sometimes I have to chase people down and it seems like dash attack works pretty well for that with its size based on Nairo vs. Marss. Altho maybe that's something I should stick with dtilt for.

U spoke of advantage a lot, r u mostly talking offstage? Seems like I can juggle people decently well with ff Upairs but if they have a dair like ZSS that I have to respect it kinda falls apart.

Alright I'm gonna answer these questions in reverse order for you Is it'll be simpler and if you're reading this order it will make more sense .

Advantage state means Anytime you put your opponent into an unfavorable position on their part And a favorable position on your part . So yes juggling people with a pair is in up some ash as well as catching landings with grab and dash attack Is a good example of being in an advantage state Because you have more options to cover their landing then they have landing option . When you knock your opponent off stage You are in an advantage state because now they have to recover And you have to pick the right options but you have so many options against their recovery that it's your extreme advantage state The state or you have more advantage that at any other point in the game is when you are ledge guarding people with pit Anyways .

At low percent Down till allez combo into up smash but you have to do a running up smash Or I should say an instant dash up smash . It will also compliment in neutral air or forward air And based on their DI If they get close to you with their DI sometimes you can get down here to neutral air is a follow up If they di I away Probably catch them with a dash attack like you were saying .

As for whether or not bakare is better for gifting then forward air In all actuality Forward aerial neutral aerial And Back aerial Are all equal for gimping. When I was talking about edge guarding with bakare I was referring to the situation that trela Het finding himself in against Ronan . Each Ariel has a purpose In the off stage merda . For people with sideways recoveries That are slow And predictable Bakare is an amazing tool For constantly knocking them back . For people with horizontal recoveries that are quicker like Fox and Wolf Neutral aerial Is an amazing way to intercept . For people who can float around kind of far off stage and then still make it bet Forward air Is a great way to get out there and reach them . However none of these moves are confined to these situations There will be plenty of times When you will find yourself using something else It's all about the feel of the moment . Not to mention the Guardian orbiters are also amazing for edge guarding . I'm sure you saw my above post about the orbiters .

But all other edge guarding tool Have nothing on a precise arrow . When you have true control of your arrow Knowing the angles of all the charge levels And being able to use that to force your opponent into a bad situation off stage The arrow is the ultimate edge guarding tool . In fact me and my boy trela Agree that as a single tool pits arrow is the single best edge guarding tool in the game When used at optimum level .

Ask for your fastball auto cancel options When you do a short hot neutral aerial And fast falat as soon as you are able to It is incredibly safe In fact I don't think it's punishable on block when auto cancelled correctly if I read the frame data chart correctly . A short hopped up Aerial Will auto cancel If you do not fastball Which is incredibly useful Since it last so long It will eat Shields on a platform very efficiently . A properly short hop fast fault forward aerial Will khambo into other moves . Now for short hop back air If you come up to a Brown did opponent and try to hit them with a rising short hot backar you will always fail at getting the strong hit Back aerial either needs to be done rising into an airborne opponent Or Falling into that opponent and activating it before you hit the ground . However this is a high commitment move and even when auto cancelled is fairly easy to punish if used improperly . Read the frame data chart that was posted in the pit guide that's in here somewhere Not in my thread but in one of the other ones And really understand what the frame data mean . The 3 things you need to pay attention to when dealing with brain data Are the frame that it starts on Hitting someone The initial startup hit box . For example Pets jab has 3 frames of start up and then hits on the fourth . The second thing you need to know about frame data is what frame the new end on. The final thing you need to pay attention to Is how many frames of stun It places on an opponents block . This will tell you how safe a move is .

I hope that answers your questions if you have anymore let me know . That goes for all You guys :) And if y'all need another in depth information About frame data I'd be happy to try to explain it to you . As for me I'm going to relax today because it is my birthday But I will check this thing out today and see if anyone has any questions .
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

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Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
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O
Alright I'm gonna answer these questions in reverse order for you Is it'll be simpler and if you're reading this order it will make more sense .

Advantage state means Anytime you put your opponent into an unfavorable position on their part And a favorable position on your part . So yes juggling people with a pair is in up some ash as well as catching landings with grab and dash attack Is a good example of being in an advantage state Because you have more options to cover their landing then they have landing option . When you knock your opponent off stage You are in an advantage state because now they have to recover And you have to pick the right options but you have so many options against their recovery that it's your extreme advantage state The state or you have more advantage that at any other point in the game is when you are ledge guarding people with pit Anyways .

At low percent Down till allez combo into up smash but you have to do a running up smash Or I should say an instant dash up smash . It will also compliment in neutral air or forward air And based on their DI If they get close to you with their DI sometimes you can get down here to neutral air is a follow up If they di I away Probably catch them with a dash attack like you were saying .

As for whether or not bakare is better for gifting then forward air In all actuality Forward aerial neutral aerial And Back aerial Are all equal for gimping. When I was talking about edge guarding with bakare I was referring to the situation that trela Het finding himself in against Ronan . Each Ariel has a purpose In the off stage merda . For people with sideways recoveries That are slow And predictable Bakare is an amazing tool For constantly knocking them back . For people with horizontal recoveries that are quicker like Fox and Wolf Neutral aerial Is an amazing way to intercept . For people who can float around kind of far off stage and then still make it bet Forward air Is a great way to get out there and reach them . However none of these moves are confined to these situations There will be plenty of times When you will find yourself using something else It's all about the feel of the moment . Not to mention the Guardian orbiters are also amazing for edge guarding . I'm sure you saw my above post about the orbiters .

But all other edge guarding tool Have nothing on a precise arrow . When you have true control of your arrow Knowing the angles of all the charge levels And being able to use that to force your opponent into a bad situation off stage The arrow is the ultimate edge guarding tool . In fact me and my boy trela Agree that as a single tool pits arrow is the single best edge guarding tool in the game When used at optimum level .

Ask for your fastball auto cancel options When you do a short hot neutral aerial And fast falat as soon as you are able to It is incredibly safe In fact I don't think it's punishable on block when auto cancelled correctly if I read the frame data chart correctly . A short hopped up Aerial Will auto cancel If you do not fastball Which is incredibly useful Since it last so long It will eat Shields on a platform very efficiently . A properly short hop fast fault forward aerial Will khambo into other moves . Now for short hop back air If you come up to a Brown did opponent and try to hit them with a rising short hot backar you will always fail at getting the strong hit Back aerial either needs to be done rising into an airborne opponent Or Falling into that opponent and activating it before you hit the ground . However this is a high commitment move and even when auto cancelled is fairly easy to punish if used improperly . Read the frame data chart that was posted in the pit guide that's in here somewhere Not in my thread but in one of the other ones And really understand what the frame data mean . The 3 things you need to pay attention to when dealing with brain data Are the frame that it starts on Hitting someone The initial startup hit box . For example Pets jab has 3 frames of start up and then hits on the fourth . The second thing you need to know about frame data is what frame the new end on. The final thing you need to pay attention to Is how many frames of stun It places on an opponents block . This will tell you how safe a move is .

I hope that answers your questions if you have anymore let me know . That goes for all You guys :) And if y'all need another in depth information About frame data I'd be happy to try to explain it to you . As for me I'm going to relax today because it is my birthday But I will check this thing out today and see if anyone has any questions .
Oh wow happy birthday! Yo I super respect the dedication and input.

I do have another inquiry. Not to overload u today tho I can wait :p

U mentioned how Pit kinda has to tailor what tools he has for a gameplan based on the MU, r there any general tips or broad categories of MU's I can plan this out with?

Like one thing I've gathered from ur above posts r that against small bodied characters with projectiles like Olimar and the Chu's, I cant do the grounded arrow spam but instead I have to do short hop down angled arrows. So that's like one grouping I have to fight a certain way
 

Maharba the Mystic

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I mean you can also shoot an arrow that's grounded but slanted diagonal downwards it'll still hit their short Hurt boxes But the reason you can't spam it those characters Is because all Mars pechmann block the aeros when he's throwing them anyways for the most part And the little rat Is usually too close to risk using aroes On stage .

This is a really good question that you ask though So I'll tell you what I might not get to it today But I will write a general Match up guide For general types of matchups As well as Getting into the specifics Of a few popular characters . But I can tell you this much When you're trying to learn a matchup Try to look at it from the other characters perspective And think yourself What is this character worried about when playing against my character . Actually make it so Simpler And ask yourself What does this character want to avoid in general . When you know what a character will try to avoid in any match up you'll know what to exploit with yours . For example Let's say against Beach Ask yourself what does she not want to deal with ? She doesn't want to deal With Good anti air options She doesn't want to deal with disjointed hit oxys And honestly she doesn't like recovering Her whole focus is here Incredible combo games And on stage control So try to take that away from her . Lotsa Araoz And neutral aerials As well as reading some of her Float approaches with sidebe As long as it's not one of the multi hit lines . I'll get into it more later but try to think about it like that It will help a lot
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

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Messages
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I mean you can also shoot an arrow that's grounded but slanted diagonal downwards it'll still hit their short Hurt boxes But the reason you can't spam it those characters Is because all Mars pechmann block the aeros when he's throwing them anyways for the most part And the little rat Is usually too close to risk using aroes On stage .

This is a really good question that you ask though So I'll tell you what I might not get to it today But I will write a general Match up guide For general types of matchups As well as Getting into the specifics Of a few popular characters . But I can tell you this much When you're trying to learn a matchup Try to look at it from the other characters perspective And think yourself What is this character worried about when playing against my character . Actually make it so Simpler And ask yourself What does this character want to avoid in general . When you know what a character will try to avoid in any match up you'll know what to exploit with yours . For example Let's say against Beach Ask yourself what does she not want to deal with ? She doesn't want to deal With Good anti air options She doesn't want to deal with disjointed hit oxys And honestly she doesn't like recovering Her whole focus is here Incredible combo games And on stage control So try to take that away from her . Lotsa Araoz And neutral aerials As well as reading some of her Float approaches with sidebe As long as it's not one of the multi hit lines . I'll get into it more later but try to think about it like that It will help a lot
Gracias take ur time.

Yeah I think one thing I've learned is to not he afraid to just camp out sometimes if I can. Pit is a counter character after all
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

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Feb 7, 2019
Messages
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I'm implementing pivot arrow and forcing approaches to decent effect, but Final Destination is the one stage where I have a hard time doing it. Feels like theres no room to do it so I get chased down. I need to get better at this micro spacing to get the most out of my stage control
 

Maharba the Mystic

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Don't worry it takes a lot of practice to get the hang of perfect micro spacing But final destination is definitely a good stage to practice it on Once you can master it there It becomes easier on other Stages . Just keep practicing everything and you guys will get it . Since you guys were interested in mchips I might just make a new thread specifically for Match up discussion At some point . But I'm going to wait on that until I have a little more data to give you guys . There are so many characters in this game LOL . Put do me a favor and why don't you Whoever is interested list 5 matchups that you are interested in learning about How they are played in such And I'll see who post what And I'll pick whichever match up seem most appropriate to discuss
 

Kiligar

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Messages
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Matchups. Matchups indeed. Which character shows up on the screen creates a huge difference for me. I’ll list my most hated matchups, many of which I’m not alone in despising. First, Luigi. Such a high damage output and ridiculous kill-power. Camps and approaches with fireballs and plungers. Edgegaurding him is not as simple as it seems, as you don’t want to get stage spiked by his side Special, but his recovery is definitely exploitable, I just need to learn how to do so consistently.

Secondly, Lucas. PK Fire in the Neutral is absolutely obnoxious. This is the first problem I must overcome. Once he gets close he has high kill power options in Up smash and Fair, but also 3 kill throws. That tether grab can be quite annoying. PK thunder and freeze are annoying offstage but Orbitars make that a great deal easier.

Third is Samus. Constant ‘mind games’ of wondering if she’ll shoot her Neutral Special or not. Her Fair deters jump and kills. Can camp, but Orbitars make that easier, just her slow moving homing missiles don’t really care for Orbitars, she can approach after firing one. Huge tether grab, biggest in the game? Whiff punishes with Up Special, or deters aerial aggression.

Fourth is Link. Not as bad as it used to be for me, but he’s trying to camp you so hard and calls it Galaxy Brain plays. Constantly uses boomerang, to whiff punish, catch jump or catch landings. Getting hit at close range when trying to approach may happen often. Boomerang combos into awful things, so avoiding it is key. Remote Bomb at ledge is absolutely obnoxious, which get-Up to choose is an option which rests the fate of your stock.

Fifth is Yoshi. Ridiculous air speed. His projectile is so hard to deal with. Super armor on double jump. Obscene damage output, juggling can be deadly if the Yoshi predicts how you’ll escape. Yoshi’s approaches feel near incontestable, he does something but the frame data and shield advantage seems wack, correct me if I’m wrong. Can punish passive approaches, as in approaching without attacking, either with shield or not putting out large hitboxes, with that special tether grab that “eggs” you. Edgegaurding Yoshi can be difficult at times, easier at others, hitting him isn’t the most difficult but sending him into the blast zone is another story.
Here’s an example for Yoshi that might be interesting to analyze.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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It's alright aside from Yoshi what's funny is we destroy all of those characters with pit You just have to understand it from a fundamental basis of each character . Don't worry I'll explain it all Soon But like you said I'ma take my time with these and write him up proficiently for you But just so you guys know The potential of this character This is mine and trelas Theoretical matchup chart Pre Patch . And it's actually better Dispatch but I haven't gotten a chance to make a new chart
pit3.0.png
 

Kiligar

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Messages
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It's alright aside from Yoshi what's funny is we destroy all of those characters with pit You just have to understand it from a fundamental basis of each character . Don't worry I'll explain it all Soon But like you said I'ma take my time with these and write him up proficiently for you But just so you guys know The potential of this character This is mine and trelas Theoretical matchup chart Pre Patch . And it's actually better Dispatch but I haven't gotten a chance to make a new chart View attachment 228546
I think the chart is pretty good, the positive category is not precise enough I think. Villager, Isabelle and Kirby being in the same category as Joker, Ness and Wolf doesn’t seem quite right. Not saying they’re awful and belong on the bottom, but perhaps the Positive category can be divided into more sections. Pikachu is even I think as well. I also think ZSS is even. It would be nice to hear the explanations behind some character placements. I’m looking forward to learning more about these MU, some I struggle with too much despite where they’re placed, such as Wii Fit Trainer, Luigi and Samus. Overall, great chart, it’s great to have you guys as resources to learn from.
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

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Feb 7, 2019
Messages
64
It's alright aside from Yoshi what's funny is we destroy all of those characters with pit You just have to understand it from a fundamental basis of each character . Don't worry I'll explain it all Soon But like you said I'ma take my time with these and write him up proficiently for you But just so you guys know The potential of this character This is mine and trelas Theoretical matchup chart Pre Patch . And it's actually better Dispatch but I haven't gotten a chance to make a new chart View attachment 228546
Surely with this match up chart Pit would be a top tier, wouldn't he? Seems like much to me.

If I had to ask for 5, I'd want 5 fairly different characters so something like Olimar, Wolf, ROB, Chrom, and Snake to cover some basics, just as an idea.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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Is not top tier he's high Tear . A lot of those positive matchups are only Very slight advantages But since nobody plays this character For the most part Nobody understands how broken forced honesty is . That's what makes Pit Heitir No matter what broken b******* he's up against for the most part At top level Most characters can't Do their random broken b******* tapit Because his tools are so solid that it forces you to actually think And play properly . Playing Pitt means you're dedicating yourself to out playing your opponent At a fundamental level . But Again at top level his off stage game is so oppressive That It gives him the edge in the match up For the most part . But you can only get matchup results like this when you got full mastery of the character Including the arrow . And like I said this is pre Patch So yeah with pikachu's extended grab range the match up might be Even now . However on the other side the little rat Baby Got hella nerfed Which only solidified pittas advantage Especially since sidebe kills the little ******* at 70 .

Snake in Wolf Seem to be On everyone's mind so I'll Get to them first as well as Link Sent you basically played the same way as young link so that's kind of a 2 for one And Luigi so you don't get frauded . After that I'll probably get to oli And Yoshi . But for now I'm gonna try and make a base match up chart again And then I'll try to start working on leaves writeups either later tonight or tomorrow I figured the magic chart in the magic thread may as well be current to dispatch Although honestly It might be worth it to just wait until Banjo comes out Since there probably gonna Patch everything again when that happens is well It's up to you guys I can either start working on it tonight or tomorrow or we can wait until banjo comes out
 

Courageous Baka

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I'm really curious about how to fight Wolf and Snake too. Besides them, I'm asking about Fox, Pikachu, and Palutena. I think these three can also give us basics on how to fight characters of similar categories (Fox = Rushdown, Pikachu = Small, and Palutena = Teleport Recovery).
As for the matchup thread idea, the Hero is coming out this summer while Banjo comes out in the fall. Both of them will surely come with a new patch each. The Hero might be better because he'll come out sooner, but it's up to you on that. I'm fine with waiting.
 
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Maharba the Mystic

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Oh I thought they were both coming out in the summer . I think I will wait to do the match up thread Until the hero comes out But for now I'll give you guys some Basic Pointers for a few of those matchups

Snake : You wanna stay just out of his dash attack range And slowly push him towards the edge of the stage . You're gonna be using a lot of arrow and reflector In the neutral And you need to be good at throwing item and catching items in just item claim general To deal with the nades Aside from reflecting them . You're also gonna use the reflector on his other projectiles . Then when the chance presents itself Either Put him off stage Or put him above you And keep it that way as long as you can Punishing is leonding or his get up Consistently Keeping him in The air That is the key . Then when he is off stage bakare Is incredibly effective At keeping him off stage As well as our upward arrow And up air are good At keeping him above us . And of course it is important to use the fully charged arrow to try to knock him off of his cypher When applicable

Space animals : On stage it's going to be a complicated game of micro spacing between both of you However you have more range And because of their weight And fall speed They are khambo Bait Making your downtilt conversions much easier Which is great . Then you wanna focus your combos On neutral Aaron forward air base stuff to take them to the ledge And knock them off stage . Then you edge guard the s*** out of them . Remember when you guys are both on stage Both of you have reflectors But you can angle your araoz down As they hit There reflector To make them bounce away from you where is there lasers will always go back in them . Off stage Don't be afraid to go out there and screw them up . If they are in a position where they have to sidbi Block their body with your own while using orbiters And they will fall to their death . Then just boppin when they have to Firefox .

olimar : This matchup Revolves around our dash attack Reflector neutral aerial And our juggling Options . Is grab is slow so if we dash attack him It will Hit him before you get grabbed . You can do this with downtilt as well which is great because it pops him up and he's weaker in the air . Your entire goal is to keep him above you Using your neutral air to push him off stage While forcing him to recover high So that you're up smash and up Ariel And dash attack Can keep him in the air . Get your grabs where your can For the free combos In positioning And don't be afraid to go out there off stage and mess him up .

Pikachu : This Entire Match up Is micro spacing . You have more range And a better projectile As well as the weight and killpower advantage . However He has decent range A better combo game A Decent projectile And while lighter is overall faster . We can both do dirty things to each other off stage We can both punish each others landings pretty well He has the better recovery But we have the reflector and super armor side special . It's one of the most annoyingly even matchups in the game End up top play is not fun for either side

Lucena and the like : May have a slightly more Oppressive up close game than we do Out Range us A little bit And cover our Landing options pretty well But we have the arrow We have enough range to contend We also cover their landing options very well And we force the approach Good . While both parties can edge guard each other very well Pit Can GIMP Characters Very effectively To the point Where any onstage difficulty seems trivial . We can go out there and mess these guys up but not the other way around And that is why we have the slight advantage
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

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Feb 7, 2019
Messages
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Arrow is a pretty strong neutral tool, but sometimes characters with good approaches who are fast can just jump over it and I completely lose stage control. I assume I have to use the arrow in neutral but I can't be too casual with it if they are already approaching. So I suppose I need to be more patient. What is the right mindset towards tempering ur arrow usage and not overdoing it?
 

Maharba the Mystic

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It's not about overdoing it And Not overdoing it. It's about picking the right option from the position you are in. If you know you are playing against the character That has strong aerial approaches You should be using your araoz at a distance where If they jump over it You can react and punish them Or You should be doing A short hop retreating arrow So that way If they jump over to try to punish you you are moving backwards thus maintaining the space that allows you to punish their approach. I was just thinking this as I was watching trelas pit On YouTube Since there are new videos of it And I was watching the stream and coaching him As I watched. A lot of people tend 2 mistake Over simplicity With predictability. No matter how good the person in front of you is no matter how much smarter they are or how many tournaments they won The only thing that truly rules this game is frame data. Anything that is true and guaranteed in frame data Is unavoidable for players. For example Sometimes when people would spot Dodge his downtilt He would go for jabb or neutral air which is guaranteed. Other times he would try to spice it up with something that was not guaranteed And usually it would not workout as well as just going for the guaranteed option. In one instance He had the snake in a bad position On the right platform with Pokémon stadium in grand finals . He had just thrown his grenade back at him and shot him with arrows The snake had then placed a trap on the platform and pulled a grenade Instead of continuing to fire araoz he decided to go straight into the Lions den When he would have been perfectly fine If you just stayed back Applied the fact that he had the lead And not run straight into a den of traps . The beautiful thing about playing this honest character Is That going for the guaranteed Optimal option Is always the correct thing to do. So as the player You need to be the one To decide in game Is this arrow Going to get me punished. Am I properly spaced to fire araoz off against this character . Have I conditioned The other player To allow me to fire off some arrows From a semi unsafe position And will doing that grant me a superior position. Am I spaced enough To wear if I fire this straight arrow And they jump over Can I do a retreating neutral air And catch them. Or If I can tell that they are going to attack Am I in a position to where I can start using my side special And beat out there move? These are the things you need to be thinking about Never think I'm firing too many or I'm not firing enough errors It's not about how many you shoot. It's about using the move Properly in the right times like you would any other Move. If you just fired 30 arroz And they are having a hard time getting through it all Don't think to yourself I have fired too many erros I should do something else You should be thinking I have the superior position And this is netting me that When it stops netting me this superior position I will change Adapt Learn And do What is necessary To win
 
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AndrewtheAmericanDude

Smash Cadet
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It's not about overdoing it And Not overdoing it. It's about picking the right option from the position you are in. If you know you are playing against the character That has strong aerial approaches You should be using your araoz at a distance where If they jump over it You can react and punish them Or You should be doing A short hop retreating arrow So that way If they jump over to try to punish you you are moving backwards thus maintaining the space that allows you to punish their approach. I was just thinking this as I was watching trelas pit On YouTube Since there are new videos of it And I was watching the stream and coaching him As I watched. A lot of people tend 2 mistake Over simplicity With predictability. No matter how good the person in front of you is no matter how much smarter they are or how many tournaments they won The only thing that truly rules this game is frame data. Anything that is true and guaranteed in frame data Is unavoidable for players. For example Sometimes when people would spot Dodge his downtilt He would go for jabb or neutral air which is guaranteed. Other times he would try to spice it up with something that was not guaranteed And usually it would not workout as well as just going for the guaranteed option. In one instance He had the snake in a bad position On the right platform with Pokémon stadium in winners finals . He had just thrown his grenade back at him and shot him with arrows The snake had then placed a trap on the platform and pulled a grenade Instead of continuing to fire araoz he decided to go straight into the Lions den When he would have been perfectly fine If you just stayed back Applied the fact that he had the lead And not run straight into a den of traps . The beautiful thing about playing this honest character Is That going for the guaranteed Optimal option Is always the correct thing to do. So as the player You need to be the one To decide in game Is this arrow Going to get me punished. Am I properly spaced to fire araoz off against this character . Have I conditioned The other player To allow me to fire off some arrows From a semi unsafe position And will doing that grant me a superior position. Am I spaced enough To wear if I fire this straight arrow And they jump over Can I do a retreating neutral air And catch them. Or If I can tell that they are going to attack Am I in a position to where I can start using my side special And beat out there move? These are the things you need to be thinking about Never think I'm firing too many or I'm not firing enough errors It's not about how many you shoot. It's about using the move Properly in the right times like you would any other Move. If you just fired 30 arroz And they are having a hard time getting through it all Don't think to yourself I have fired too many erros I should do something else You should be thinking I have the superior position And this is netting me that When it stops netting me this superior position I will change Adapt Learn And do What is necessary To win
Ty solid advice. I also imagine I need to get better at retreating pivot arrow muscle memory in case where the characters r good at approaching
 

Kiligar

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This is what I will refer to as Video 1, where Trela used Pit for the first 3 games before switching to Ryu to take the Grand Finals against AvoiD’s Snake. What I’m here to analyze is Trela’s use of Pit arrows in the matchup, and compare if Dark Pit’s arrows would be better off, the main factor being use of grounded arrows and slightly curved arrows to hit aerial Snake. Let’s begin with Game 1.

Trela begins by firing two arrows, the first which hits Snake shield at such a close timing that Dark Pit’s arrow, being faster may have been able to hit. The second clanks with a grenade. He then fires an aerial arrow at grounded Snake (0:14), followed by a combo finisher arrow at (0:19). Both of these arrows are situations in which Dark Pit would have missed out on, but considering that both dealt 6.9% and Dark Pit’s single arrow in 1v1 deals 6,6%, the deficit shouldn’t be difficult to overcome. His next arrow which connects is at (1:04), when Snake lands, a situation where Dark Pit’s arrow most likely could hit as well due to the extreme curve not needed. An arrow is fired at (1:20), which Dark Pit’s would have hit without a doubt, with the added damage bonus. At (1:40), Dark Pit’s would have hit as well, while knocking Snake back further. Same is the case with (1:44), perhaps with further follow up potential due to higher hit-stun. Until the next hit, several curved arrows are missed, and the case can be made that higher arrow accuracy would be necessary. At (2:13), Dark Pit’s arrow would have hit as well. At (2:26), only Pit benefits from that moment, but it doesn’t lead directly to a kill, however, the case can be made that it’s an error on Trela’s part, as the kill was simply a failed recovery attempt. At (2:35), an uncurved arrow hits, at (2:36) a curved arrow which only Pit could perform hits its mark. At (2:48) an arrow hits Snake’s shield with close timing, perhaps Dark Pit’s could have hit. At (3:23), Dark Pit’s arrow could have hit, at (3:28), only Pit. At (3:44) an arrow unique to Pit hits, and the battle ends soon after, but not directly linked to the arrow. Let’s come to conclusions about our Game 1 analysis.
:ultpit: Only: 6
:ultdarkpit: Only: 2
:ultpit::ultdarkpit:: 5
In terms of damage, Pit’s arrows deal 3.8% in 1v1, and Dark Pit’s 6.6%. Staling requires plenty of calculations, but due to Dark Pit dealing higher damage per arrow, it’s more in his favor since even if Pit hits more arrows, they’ll deal less damage due to staling. However, Pit may be able to get off more arrows with higher charge. We’ll assume that the staling benefits for Dark Pit and charged arrows for Pit more or less balance out, and thus remove staling from the equation. What are the results?
:ultpit: Total Arrow Damage: 41.8%
:ultpit: Total Arrows Hit: 11
:ultdarkpit: Total Arrow Damage: 46.2%
:ultdarkpit: Total Arrows Hit: 7

This is assuming that both close call cases were in Dark Pit’s favor. If not, then Dark Pit could drop as low as 34%. However, this is only one game example, the sample size is small and results aren’t truly conclusive, more trials will have to be conducted in the future for more concrete information, as for now I’d like to take a break from analyzing as it is fairly time draining. I plan to analyze games 2 and 3 later, and after that the Winner’s Finals set where Trela went solo Pit.
 
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Maharba the Mystic

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First of all Yes he could have had better aim Still working on that. But what you should be asking is how many times did the arrow force snake to go Where he wanted him to go? How many times did he eat early Recovery To avoid getting arrowed Below stage. Either way Watch Winners final That was a great example of match Up. Game 2 Is a great game to watch because you can watch him mate A lot of mistakes on purpose in order to learn the matchup Because he was unfamiliar with engli. Which is why When he had learn the match a game 3 happened Dominant.
 

Kiligar

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Mar 5, 2019
Messages
255
Video 1
Game 2 Arrow Analysis:

As the game begins Trela fires three arrows, the first of which a charged one which wouldn’t have made a difference for Dark Pit because Snake shielded before the arrow was released. An arrow Dark Pit can hit hits at (5:03). At (6:21) a Pit exclusive arrow. So far even. Which is strange because this is where the analysis ends? Is this a result of the stage choice? Why were the arrows such a non factor in this match? The data is too small to collect, so let’s move on to the next match.

Game 3 Arrow Analysis:

At (8:24) A Dark Pit inclusive arrow, at (8:50) and (8:54) Pit exclusives. At (9:21) A Dark Pit inclusive one that would have had the reward of much higher knock back. At (9:48) and (9:59) are both Dark Pit inclusives. That’s where this set analysis ends. Game 2 had lack of arrow usage so Game 3 will only be calculated.

Results:
:ultpit: Only: 2
:ultdarkpit::ultpit: Both: 4
:ultpit: Total arrow damage: 22.8%
:ultdarkpit: Total arrow damage: 26.4%

Interesting results for game 3, but I believe the results would be more accurate if I combine game 3 and game 1, which I will do so below.

Game 1&3 Results:

:ultpit: Total arrow damage: 64.6%
:ultpit: Total arrows hit: 17
:ultdarkpit: Total arrow damage: 72.6%
:ultdarkpit: Total arrows hit: 11

The difference in damage between the Pits so far is negligible, and this data alone doesn’t prove Dark Pit has superiority in the matchup. However, what it does show is that if Trela had used Dark Pit instead, it would not have been a downgrade to his performance. As in so far the data shows that Dark Pit is a viable alternative to Pit in the Snake MU. Other factors to be considered are how Pit and Dark Pit differ in their playstyles: due to higher damage reward with his arrows Dark Pit players may be encouraged to play from a distance with Snake, whereas Pit players have little to gain from their use in the neutral and thus are encouraged to play close range, and get Snake into disadvantage state where their arrows become most useful. Perhaps if Trela has used Dark Pit he would have fired more arrows in the neutral. The Snake may have been conditioned differently and altered the course of the game. There’s also Dark Pit arrow’s greater knockback, which due to how predictable Snake’s recovery is can actually make them useful, with enough practice they could be a pain at high percent. Anyway, more analysis will have to be done in the future. Regardless, I think Dark Pit arrows could use a buff to startup, but even in their current state I believe there are a few matchups where Dark Pit arrows are better, and a few more where they are even.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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Both araoz can do that Off the top thing. But I've tried to explain How important it is That snake doesn't get to dictate How he recovers Which is why shooting below the stage is Important And angles mean more stage control Sense araoz Are about control not damage But I guess it's just not getting through. more options=more options. Until he gets Some sort of Crazy buff He's always gonna play second fiddle To the stage control light arrow gives
 

LightKnight

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Mar 21, 2019
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At the moment I'm still needing to get the game so I can practice with Pit, seeing as he's the character I'd preferably like to main. One thing I'm curious about knowing at the moment, as it hasn't been even mentioned, unless I missed/forgot it, is the uses of his Utilt.
Now, currently I plan on hardly using the move and that seems to be the general consensus but obviously there are some circumstances you might want to use it so I'd like to know when those are just so I can keep it in mind for later.
One of these circumstances I imagine is if you think you can land the move and you don't want to stale Usmash then that could be a good time to use it?
 
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Maharba the Mystic

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It is good To use In Combo Mainly. It is also It as an anti air. Honestly Sent it Almost always true combos into neutral air The best use I have seen of it Is at the end of a combo after a jab lock into nair
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

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If characters have a reflector or some kind of absorbing tool, how do u condition them to lay off it so u can get away with more arrows?
 

Maharba the Mystic

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If characters have a reflector or some kind of absorbing tool, how do u condition them to lay off it so u can get away with more arrows?
you have to show them that you aren't going to get hit by the reflector And make it pointless To use it. When you are playing against someone with a reflector as pit When you shoot your arrows at them You should shoot them In one of 3 fashions. The first one Is pretty simple Whenever your arrow Is close enough to hit them Or their reflector Just angle the arrow tip Up . This way If it hits a reflector it just goes into the ground Instead of getting reflected back at you. The second way Is only slightly harder Once you've actually practiced your pit arroz And the second way Is just weave your arrow Up and then Come down With it . This will cause The arrow To just bounce in the air And miss you. The third way Is the simplest And that is Just short hop your arrow And release it Just before Start to fall While holding down This will cause The arrow to shoot downward From the apex of your jump As you fast fall to the ground So any reflector Will again just push the arrow into the air away from you.


Afterwards When They have Reflected The arrow And You are an advantage because the reflected aero missed you Hopefully You are close enough To get a buffer dash attack After the arrow shot. So basically When you are playing against characters with reflectors You should be using your araoz in such a way That one they are reflected they miss you and then you get to punish them for trying to reflect your arrow This will dissuade them from using the reflector As much Which kind of lets you get away with a little bit more mindless spam But to be honest as long as you pay attention You shouldn't be hit by reflected arrow 99% of the time because you can control Which direction it's going to go before it hits their reflector.
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

Smash Cadet
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Feb 7, 2019
Messages
64
you have to show them that you aren't going to get hit by the reflector And make it pointless To use it. When you are playing against someone with a reflector as pit When you shoot your arrows at them You should shoot them In one of 3 fashions. The first one Is pretty simple Whenever your arrow Is close enough to hit them Or their reflector Just angle the arrow tip Up . This way If it hits a reflector it just goes into the ground Instead of getting reflected back at you. The second way Is only slightly harder Once you've actually practiced your pit arroz And the second way Is just weave your arrow Up and then Come down With it . This will cause The arrow To just bounce in the air And miss you. The third way Is the simplest And that is Just short hop your arrow And release it Just before Start to fall While holding down This will cause The arrow to shoot downward From the apex of your jump As you fast fall to the ground So any reflector Will again just push the arrow into the air away from you.


Afterwards When They have Reflected The arrow And You are an advantage because the reflected aero missed you Hopefully You are close enough To get a buffer dash attack After the arrow shot. So basically When you are playing against characters with reflectors You should be using your araoz in such a way That one they are reflected they miss you and then you get to punish them for trying to reflect your arrow This will dissuade them from using the reflector As much Which kind of lets you get away with a little bit more mindless spam But to be honest as long as you pay attention You shouldn't be hit by reflected arrow 99% of the time because you can control Which direction it's going to go before it hits their reflector.
I appreciate that but what if I fight a G&W lol? Is it just GG switch to counterpick? Arrows r pretty central, and bucket can end careers.

Last week I was having a hard time landing my grabs for some reason. I wonder if I need to approach nair more to make them shield.

But one guy said I should be doing a lot of fade back nairs to deal with his Fox but keeping Pit that aerial seems like asking for trouble. I've gotten stunted on for trying to play in the air rather than dash dance against Fox. I suppose I can't just be mindless about it.
 
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