How to cover a low recovery

theperson91

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
105
Location
Maryland
#1
I'm having trouble edge guarding against low recoveries. Whenever someone goes high I simply jump out and fair. When they go low though, the fair is not as easy of an option. This is usually a problem with someone like marth/ike/mario, who have very vertical recoveries, and can easily drop low before using their up-b.

On these recoveries, I often jump out and go for dair, since it's very easy to intercept their recovery. The dair ends in one of two ways. If the last hit of dair pops them up away from the stage, then I get a free fair (and a kill), but if the last hit pops them up towards the stage then they often get back onto the stage for free.

My alternative to that for low recoveries is to just go for the on stage dash attack. This generally works if I time it right and they don't sweet spot, but this feels somewhat situational. They have to miss their sweet spot, and I have to get the dash attack hitbox out just as they're making it to the edge.

Is there anything I'm missing against low recoveries? Are there any ways of controlling which direction they go out of the dair or are there any other options that I'm missing completely? Thanks.
 

G13_Flux

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
1,076
#2
try getting on the ledge first. from there, you can drop down, and using your 3 mid air jumps, you can bair, turn around and fair, or even neutral air > fair/bair/footstool. grabbing the ledge gives you about a half of second of actionable invincibility, so try to use that to help your edge guarding. its much more rewarding to try and go offstage, especially with DDD, so dont limit yourself to staying on stage.

also when using dair as an edge gaurd, i wouldnt always jump out offstage. stay on stage (right up against the ledge) and do a short hop and try to get the head of the hammer to poke down right in front of the ledge. this way, when the last hit connects, youll always be there ready for the follow hit, regardless of the end result of the multihit sequence.
 

Smur

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
156
Location
Statesboro, GA
3DS FC
4141-3292-3562
#3
If you know you're in a situation where the opponent HAS to grab the ledge and has a pretty linear recovery like the characters you stated, it's simple. You don't have to be DDD to do this.

Take Marth for example. You can't simply edgehog him (unless you're over 100% and your get-up invincibility lasts longer) because he hangs in the air a bit after his recovery so that even if you roll on, he'll still catch it. The trick is the anticipate when they will recover. This gets easier over time. Right before they recover, you want to grab the ledge to gain some invincibility frames. If you timed this right, they'll use their recovery as soon as you grab the ledge (because it's their only option). After this, you want to roll back on for more invincibility frames so that lingering hitboxes won't hit you (Think Roy).

However, if you're too hasty with this, you can get punished with the burden of your opponent getting back on stage. They can intercept and use their recovery early so that you're knocked away.

To add even further to this, you can use it to mind game. Usually when they want to intercept you, they do so with the cost of landing back on-stage (sometimes). You can fake your opponent out by pretending you're going to edgehog (DDD is good at this because of his Fastfall and Jumps), forcing them to recover on stage. Usually recoveries have landing lag that you can aptly punish. All this may seem like a lot but it's really simple in-game.

GOOD LUCK.
 

kinje

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 14, 2015
Messages
109
Location
MD/VA
#4
If you can time and space it right, walking off the stage and jumping back to the stage with a rising dair can get you a stage spike that will either kill them or give you the chance to edgehog or down-tilt them. This works against most of the cast, and is especially effective against fast-fallers and the other two heavies.
You can see ripple use it a few times here: https://youtu.be/tkl32dxE0vg?t=1m52s

Pertaining to the particular matchups you mentioned, I can give you general advice on how to deal with them.

Ike's weird to edgeguard, because his up-b hitbox comes out so far ahead of him, but generally, you want to just back/forward throw him offstage or up throw into fair so that he has to use his side-b to recover. If he is recovering from low, he only has two options: up-b onto the stage or up-b and sweetspot the ledge.
To deal with this, just grab edge as they're getting into position to up-b, forcing them to choose to go on stage, then normal get up or roll and punish them hard in the end lag of their up-b.

Marth is super easy to edge-guard, because, in order to recover low, they'll almost always have to use their side-b, which is low enough that you can just jump off-stage and fair them out of it. Failing that, you can grab ledge and force the same situation as with Ike.

Mario can usually be dealt with by grabbing ledge and immediately dropping down with a bair. You have to do this quickly, though, without any pause, or you won't beat out the hitbox on his up-b. If he's trying to get back from farther away, Mario falls into a very predictable recovery pattern, though, which involves caping a bunch, then down-b to gain height, followed by up-b if necessary. If you're careful not to get spun around, or time it right, you can usually fair them away during the caping part.
 

Smur

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
156
Location
Statesboro, GA
3DS FC
4141-3292-3562
#5
If you can time and space it right, walking off the stage and jumping back to the stage with a rising dair can get you a stage spike that will either kill them or give you the chance to edgehog or down-tilt them. This works against most of the cast, and is especially effective against fast-fallers and the other two heavies.
You can see ripple use it a few times here: https://youtu.be/tkl32dxE0vg?t=1m52s
This works, but in the case of edgeguarding spacies, Nair is your best tool. It beats (and at the very least, trades if your timing is off) fire fox and phantasm.
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2015
Messages
14
Location
Toronto
#6
One cool and super hype thing to do is If they look like the are going to be diagonally down in front of you, try tossing a waddle dee diagonally down, or z tossing down one thats on the floor, and if it connects it will bop them up into ftilt/ fair range (or fsmash if thats your thing)
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,817
Location
Cincinnati OH
#7
The key here is to use your invincibility from the ledge wisely. If we take the example of marth recovering low, you want to time grabbing or regrabbing the edge at a point where they are just out of up-b range, and get into the space where he's going to up-b while you are still invincible and putting a bair there. (you are intangible for 30 frames after you grab the edge, regardless of whether you are still on the edge or not)

The thing is, if you stay on/near the edge and keep regrabbing, he's going to try and go over you and aim to for the stage/platforms. Thus this tactic is much more potent when your opponent gets sent too far to have this option. In the case that he has the option to aim high for the stage, you want to grab the edge as late as possible and release quickly to maintain as much invincibility as you can as you occupy the space he needs to recover, as that space will be further away from the edge when he is higher up.

Jesus from AZPM is really good at it, watch his videos against fortefreak or axe, although he usually get's bodied by axe (axe bodied wash lol) #shotsfired
 
Last edited:

heysuess

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
59
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
#8
tako!!!

That recent set vs. Axe was really a friendly lol. We both took it as that.

Drop bair is really solid. I like to toss waddle dee's or dooooo's to cover low recovery as well. Depending on the stage it'll stage spike or simply knock the other play up so you can fair them to death.
 
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