How to Buffer Dthrow Chaingrab - Explained in Detail!

[Pikabunz]

How to Buffer Dthrow Chaingrab

Frames 1-48: Dthrow Duration Frames - The duration frames of Dthrow. Dthrow last 48 frames with frame 49 being the IASA frame. When you buffer grab correctly, your grab will always come out on frame 49. Not much else to say here.

Frames 38-48: Dthrow Buffer Window - This is the buffering window of Dthrow and it lasts 11 frames. This is where the magic happens. Only during this window is when you must press and release the grab button (Z) in order for the buffered grab to work.

For example, you press Z on frame 40 and release the button on frame 47. Since frames 40 and 47 are within the buffering frames it will give you a buffered grab. Take note of the gif above and use that as a visual cue. When Pika is about to land after the booty slam is when you should start pressing the Z button.

The following are the wrong ways of doing it and what will happen if done in that way.

• Pressing Z before the buffer window and releasing in the window will result in Pika doing nothing at all. This means that you're pressing Z too early. An example would be if you pressed Z on frame 37 and release on 45.
  
  
• Pressing Z in the buffer window and releasing after the window will result in Pika shielding. This means you're releasing Z too late. An example would be if you press Z on frame 38 and released on frame 50.

Remember, the buffer window is only 11 frames. A single frame is 1/60th of a second. That means the buffer window is only a little under 0.2 seconds. So you must be really quick when pressing and releasing the Z button.

Frames 1-6: Grab Frames - This is simply the grab frames. Pika grabs on frame 6 and in some cases frame 7. You can dthrow immediately after landing the grab. You don't have to dthrow right away, You can hold them for a bit to retain your focus for timing the buffered grab, but don't hold them for too long or they will break out.

One last thing I should say is to NEVER PUMMEL DURING THE CHAINGRAB! Pummeling will refresh your dthrow's strength making the chaingrab end at a lower percent. You must keep your dthrow stale if you want to chaingrab to the highest percent.

For information on who the dthrow chaingrab works on and what percents they go up to, visit this thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225783

 

[Ussi]

omg i love you

I'm also using X to grab cause its so much easier to use my thumb for quick inputs

 

[global-wolf]

This is super helpful! I can't chaingrab consistently. I like the frame number in the corner, it helps a lot.

This should go in the directory.

 

[Leaf.]

• Pressing Z in the buffer window and releasing after the window will result in Pika shielding. This means you're releasing Z too late. An example would be if you press Z on frame 38 and released on frame 50.

:o

That's the key I've been missing.
I figured I was holding it too long, but I didn't know the exact cause.
Now I can fix it.

...so, how about one for F-Throw?

Edit: I was thinking the same thing.
Edit: I'll put it in there once I get back to my good internet.

 

[Ussi]

one on fthrow would be so helpful i tend to not buffer my dash DX

 

[Syko_Lemming]

That .gif really helps a ton.

"Pika grabs on frame 6 and in some cases frame 7."
What are these cases, and does it matter to the chain?



EDIT2: I didn't know holding Z resulted in putting up your sheild, I though that meant I was pressing it too early. That was really confusing me, aha. Things make sense now.

 

[KayLo!]

Yaaaay, this is amazing Prime.

I should start using Y for grab like I originally intended..... seems a lot easier than using Z. Z is the ****ing worst button ever.

 

[Pikabunz]

"Pika grabs on frame 6 and in some cases frame 7."
What are these cases, and does it matter to the chain?

I know it can happen when chain grabbing MK. At high enough percent, MK pops up a little bit too high making the 6th frame of Pika's grab miss, but on the 7th frame he's down low enough to be grabbed. This doesn't really mean anything, he still gets grabbed.

To everyone else asking for fthrow, I will be doing that next.

I'm so glad people are finding this useful. =)

 

[gamesuxcard]

Good stuff, Prime.

 

[M15t3R E]

I think it's very important that you noted that pummeling during the CG is a BAD IDEA. I don't think many Pikas do it, but many would certainly consider doing it if not advised against it.

 

[Zolga Owns]

Priiiiimmmeee.
You're amazing. This is really helpful. The frame counter is great.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It's best to hold your shield button and press A to regrab, imo.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

i typically do two things when CGing

1. look at the starting position my char goes into before i can regrab [for pikachu in this gif its frame 47-48 is considered the starting position]. When i CG i tell myself, i must buffer this button before pikachu stands up on his feet in frames 47 and 48.
2. simultaneously look at the part of hit stun my opponent is in [for DDD, most characters hunch forward on their legs during the ending frames of the hitstun. So i must regrab before or during this animation phase]

i use that as a bench mark for CGing

 

[KayLo!]

It's best to hold your shield button and press A to regrab, imo.

Eh, I used to do it this way, but Prime always tells me not to. Feels easier to me too, but apparently it's more effective to tap the Z/whateveryouusetograb button.

...........I forget why your way is bad though.

 

[Pikabunz]

Well, if you wanna do it that way you can. You just gotta remember to release both shield and A during the buffer frames every time. Holding shield the entire time and just pressing A will not work. I like using Z much more since you're only dealing with one button.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I hold R the entire time and press A and it works for DDD's infinite, lol.

 

[Pikabunz]

You can't even buffer with shield held down. I mean it's possible to chaingrab without buffering, but it's really hard to do.

 

[Wiscus]

I thought I posted in here before. Wanted to say this is awesome Prime, it's nice to see a gif in action.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

what prime said about assigning grab buttons. For DDD i use a combination of X and Shield canceled grabs. Because the slides for certain character groups out of his Dthrow differ, i mix it up between both when i CG.

For pikachu however, i do not believe he needs to Shield cancel grabs like DDD does. Not with the physics of how his grab game work. Correct me if im wrong tho.

I think for pikachu players, simply TAPING the X [or ur grab button] is all you need to do to buffer the grab and perform it. However, if pikachu does get a slide out of shielding then grabbing as a mix up i think that'd be just awesome.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

The reason grabs happen on frame 6 or 7 is because the hitbox for grabs lasts 2 frames right?

Also, for those that don't have the timing, practice it with the C-stick. You can never shield, so if you don't grab you are doing it too early. Get the timing for when you should grab, and when you have that down switch to whatever button you would normally to get used to a quick release.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Prime, do you know if the amount of frames the d-throw takes changes based on weight? IIRC, throws have different speeds because of weight.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Neither Pikachu's F-throw or D-throw respond differently to weight changes.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

...Marry me Prime?

 

[KayLo!]

ESAM, nobody's gonna use the z-stick method but you. x.o Practicing with it is like babying yourself since you can practically spam the c-stick and still get it right.

Much better to just practice with whatever button you're gonna end up using.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You can't really spam it.

 

[KayLo!]

It's a lot easier, though. & you know it is, otherwise you wouldn't have your c-stick set to grab. =P

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Hence the reason I said practice the timing like that...

 

[KayLo!]

That's like reverse handicapping yourself though. Why would you practice a much easier but less practical way when you can practice with the method you're actually gonna be using?

I don't get the reasoning behind it.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

To get the timing down?

 

[KayLo!]

You can do that with the button you're already gonna be using, though, without getting used to a conveniently wider margin of error. It's not that hard.

If the grab doesn't come out, you're grabbing too early.
If they can escape/counterattack, you're grabbing too late.
If you buffer a shield, you held the button too long.

Pretty simple.

Plus one of the main problems people have is holding the button too long, which isn't an issue with the c-stick. Using a button for practice gets you used to tapping vs. pressing.

Whatever works for people tho I guess. x.x?

 

[Pikabunz]

You don't really need to know any timing if you're using the z-stick. lol.

 

[Zodiark]

Thanks that's really useful

 

[bigman40]

Using Z-stick is a tad different than using a button since the C-stick only inputs a move for 1 frame. Technically, it's easier to CG with the Z-stick, but I guess it would help when trying to time yourself to buffer the CG during the 11 frames.

 

[KayLo!]

I don't get the z-stick logic at all lol. Seems like an unnecessary step in the process.

Like Prime said, you don't need strict timing at all when using the z-stick, so you're not training yourself to buffer correctly unless you plan on using the z-stick in actual matches. You're babying yourself. -_-

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You get the first part of the timing, the "when to press Z" timing. The other part of the timing is letting go. If you have something that breaks those things apart instead of having both timings at once and having to learn them simultaneously, isn't that better?

 

[global-wolf]

If learn to time the z-stick at the last possible frame to buffer then wouldn't you be shielding all the time once you return to the grab button? Or something like that.

 

[Leaf.]

I tried using Z-stick at the tournament I was at yesterday. I didn't miss a single grab, but I had to sacrifice the fact I use C-stick for most aerials and DI moves, so I kept accidentally air dodging and dying early.
It's really good, but I don't think I could get used to not having my stick...would the D-Pad work it the same way? Can it even be used to grab? Does it do the same 1 frame thing as the stick or does it need to be released as well?

Ok, no. Doesn't work. It can grab, but it is the same as a button, I just tested it, and was able to successfully screw it up easily.
Plus, I'm not covering up my taunts.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You could use a side D-pad and still have your side taunt.

I'm actually gonna switch my controls to normal. I like SDI :3

 

[The Truth!]

I think what ESAM is saying is that you can separate the two issues when trying to learn the buffer chain grab: the timing and releasing the button in time. While it might not be necessary for everyone, I could see it being easier to learn the timing with the z-stick first and then using a button after youre certain you have the timing down and arent making a mistake in that area.

 

[mercy]

I tried using Z-stick at the tournament I was at yesterday. I didn't miss a single grab, but I had to sacrifice the fact I use C-stick for most aerials and DI moves, so I kept accidentally air dodging and dying early.
It's really good, but I don't think I could get used to not having my stick...would the D-Pad work it the same way? Can it even be used to grab? Does it do the same 1 frame thing as the stick or does it need to be released as well?

Ok, no. Doesn't work. It can grab, but it is the same as a button, I just tested it, and was able to successfully screw it up easily.
Plus, I'm not covering up my taunts.

You actually used that in a tourney?!? Ugh.

Z-stick is nearly as bad as a b-stick, and this is coming from someone who plays Lucas.